Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-02-18

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:39 perlrocks Twitter: "Interview with Sebastian Riedel on Mojolicious, Perl web framework: http://bit.ly/eXIL8H" --ActiveState http://twitter.com/ActiveSta​te/status/38397043609178113
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01:00 perlrocks Twitter: "@ActiveState we use @mojolicious and feel its the best framework for our needs" --insurgentsoft http://twitter.com/insurgents​oft/status/38402466739531776
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03:34 perlrocks Twitter: "Finally got #RT setup for testing. Seems there are a LOT of settings. @obfuscurty, how's that simple #Mojolicious ticketing system coming?" --AFreshOne http://twitter.com/AFreshOn​e/status/38441296544661504
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05:29 jwang nice interview. I like the part about attracting people from outside perlverse
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06:51 crab if you read that interview, you almost don't realise that sri is an evil three-letter-dictator
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06:53 sri good morning fellow evil dictators!
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07:06 crab is now known as crb
07:06 crb hi.
07:11 jwang "hi." doesn't seem overly evil
07:12 jwang be evil :)
07:16 perlrocks Twitter: "Task 38897 for sisyphus by crux DONE perl-Mojolicious.git=1.1-alt1" --girar_builder http://twitter.com/girar_buil​der/status/38497026962362368
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07:34 Christian morning
07:34 * sri waves
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07:49 crab it should be safe to do <%= javascript begin %>var x = <%== $output_from_render_partial_json %><% end %> inside an html template, right?
07:49 crab "safe" in the XSS sense.
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07:55 MojoGuest647 From: http://www.google.be/search?sourceid=ch​rome&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;q=websocket+demo (1 hits)
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08:26 sri http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/ # HALP! don't let them downvote me
08:26 perlrocks Twitter: "Sebastian Riedel (sri): Interview about Mojolicious http://bit.ly/eX9KLj" --perl_twitch http://twitter.com/perl_twit​ch/status/38514668599250944
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08:32 perlrocks Twitter: "Sebastian Riedel (sri): Interview about Mojolicious http://bit.ly/gj3d3e" --perlironman http://twitter.com/perlironm​an/status/38516199297908736
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08:44 GitHub83 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 7c39e5a (1 files in 1 dirs): improved async description - http://bit.ly/edjt1f
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08:44 sri hope that's easier to grok
08:46 sri i'll make a quick bugfix release later if there are no complaints
08:47 * crab reads
08:48 crab sri: i feel sure that "allow multiple clients to run in parallel" will be confused with "multiple requests in parallel"
08:48 sri well, how would you say it?
08:49 sri "and allow multiple clients to share the same event loop."?
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08:50 GitHub27 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * cb4ab50 (1 files in 1 dirs): improved description again - http://bit.ly/eFOt7U
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08:51 crab Disable automatic Mojo::IOLoop management and allow multiple client objects to share an event loop (as opposed to a single client with its own IOLoop to process many requests in parallel, which is the normal mode of operation).
08:51 crab brb
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08:52 sri is http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojolicio​us/Guides/Cookbook#Parallel_Requests not obvious enough?
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09:03 perlrocks Twitter: "Preparing a #mojolicious bugfix release for later today, please test the latest version from github! http://t.co/WSuUMPE #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/38523964481474560
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09:14 crab seems ok.
09:55 marcus sri: nice interview
09:57 marcus I like 'Sebastian Riedel is a supervillain in the Perl universe and the creator of the Catalyst and Mojolicious web frameworks.' ;)
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09:58 MojoGuest560 From: http://www.google.com.tw/search?hl=zh-TW&amp;s​ource=hp&amp;biw=1404&amp;bih=795&amp;q=websoc​ket+demo&amp;aq=f&amp;aqi=g1&amp;aql=&amp;oq= (1 hits)
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10:00 sri :)
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10:13 MojoGuest799 From: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid​=chrome&amp;client=ubuntu&amp;channel​=cs&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;q=websocket+demo (1 hits)
10:18 MojoGuest799 hello
10:18 purl hola, MojoGuest799.
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10:43 sri stop slacking and get testing!
10:43 * sri cracks the whip
10:43 sri it is not weekend yet ;p
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11:46 Trelane Morning.
11:46 Trelane Is there some easy way with mojo client to build a url with GET parameters?
11:48 * sri waves
11:48 sri build?
11:49 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojo/URL maybe?
11:50 sri $client->get(Mojo::URL->new(​'mojolicio.us')->query([foo => 'bar']));
11:55 Trelane ah ha
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11:56 Trelane the documentation isn't clear what query returns
12:03 sri actually it is pretty clear
12:04 Trelane Oh, I guess it's clear that it returns the url
12:04 sri if called with arguments it returns the invocant
12:05 sri yea
12:05 Trelane what wasn't clear is if it modifies the invocant or creates a new url
12:05 sri ah ok
12:05 Trelane What also wasn't clear what "replace" and "merge" mean
12:06 Trelane It's talking about replacing *all* parameters
12:06 Trelane Not each parameter
12:07 Trelane Maybe some more examples there.
12:07 sri feel free :)
12:07 * Trelane adds it to his todo list to see if he can write something
12:08 sri what complicated it further is the fact that query params are an array and not a hash
12:08 sri s/d/s/
12:09 marcus hey trelane
12:09 Trelane ->res() is returning  bless( {}, 'Mojo::Message::Response' );
12:10 Trelane was I meant to do something to it to get an actual response?
12:10 Trelane marcus: hey marcus
12:11 perlrocks Twitter: "An Interview with Sebastian Riedel (Mojolicious author):  http://bit.ly/fGAX43" --hnfirehose http://twitter.com/hnfireho​se/status/38571185448951809
12:11 marcus Trelane: what did you do to get an empty response?
12:12 marcus $client->get($url)->res ?
12:12 Trelane https://gist.github.com/062e5d81493dd3955f75
12:14 yko ouch...
12:14 yko morning
12:14 yko hehe, little changes today i see
12:15 marcus Trelane: maybe it failed. Try error handling from Mojo::Client synopsi?
12:15 marcus synopsis
12:15 purl synopsis is, like, http://git.jrock.us/?p=Bot-Synopsis.git;a=summary
12:15 sri wait, didn't i have an example for google translate somewhere
12:15 marcus sri: irc bot
12:15 sri right
12:15 Trelane The URL works in the browser...
12:16 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojolicio​.us/blob/master/perlrocks.pl#L181
12:16 sri the bot does translate for tweets
12:18 sri Trelane: your script actually works flawless here
12:18 Trelane oooh, that's interesting
12:18 Trelane problem with my https?
12:18 marcus mojo version?
12:19 marcus (run "mojo version" on the command line)
12:19 sri yea, you might want to check error
12:19 sri there will be a connection error if https doesn't work
12:19 sri and what marcus said
12:21 * marcus plays apocalypptica louder
12:22 Trelane Hmm.  This box seems to have 1.01 on it
12:22 * Trelane upgrades
12:22 purl upgrades are good!
12:23 * sri plays Johann Johannsson louder
12:23 sri the sun's gone dim and the sky turned black is awesome!
12:24 marcus Worlds Collide!
12:24 * yko plays Red Elvises and cry
12:24 marcus I bet my colleges love me
12:25 yko i'm afraid to upgrade
12:25 marcus BABY DON'T FEAR THE REAPER
12:26 Trelane I'm getting "Error: Couldn't connect"
12:26 sri that's it
12:27 Trelane but why?
12:27 sri mojo version will answer that
12:27 sri your IO::Socket::SSL is likely too old
12:30 Trelane LWP::Simple can get the URL okay...
12:30 sri it uses another ssl module
12:30 Trelane ah ha
12:31 * Trelane installs IO::Socket::SSL
12:32 Trelane SSL is a pain.  It means I'm going to have to do something clever to create a version of this script that can run on another mac
12:32 sri it is
12:33 Trelane oh arse, and it's failing tests too
12:33 sri ssl is core in ruby and python :/
12:33 Trelane I hate fridays
12:36 marcus sri: is it still not core in 5.12?
12:36 Christian how can i change the base tag? for example: http://foo.example.com/bar/  i want to remove the "bar" is there a method for that?
12:36 sri ipv6 will at least be in 5.14
12:37 sri ssl prolly never
12:37 Trelane on force install later...it works...
12:38 Trelane marcus: no, I'm running 5.12.3 here
12:38 crab Fri Feb 18 12:34:36 2011 error Mojo::Server::Daemon:188 [13907]: SSL connect accept failed because of handshake problemserror:00000000:lib(0):func(0):reason(0)
12:39 crab what a useless and stupid error message.
12:40 crab (more of IO::Socket::SSL's work)
12:40 marcus crab: yeah, let's beat up the guy who made it!
12:40 perlrocks Twitter: "An Interview with Sebastian Riedel                 (Mojolicious author) http://bit.ly/fGAX43" --ycombinatornews http://twitter.com/ycombinator​news/status/38578701666881536
12:40 crab do i have to?
12:41 marcus I would like to.
12:41 marcus To get out some frusteration
12:41 marcus Found out my brand new apartment only has access to internet through cable tv :(
12:41 crab time to move.
12:41 marcus heh, I haven't moved in yet
12:42 crab should be less troublesome that way ;-)
12:42 Trelane And PAR doesn't like perlbrew.  Excellent
12:42 sri crab: quite sure those are from openssl
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12:43 GitHub191 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 46e7509 (2 files in 1 dirs): improved error message for missing TLS support - http://bit.ly/eYtTQN
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12:43 crab 439                         $self->error("SSL connect attempt failed because of handshake problems" );
12:43 sri "MOJO_NO_TLS=1 ./script/mojo get https://google.com" much better now
12:43 sri "Problem loading URL "https://google.com". (IO::Socket::SSL 1.37 required for TLS support.)"
12:43 crab nice
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12:44 sri did i mention how much i love time machine backups?
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12:45 sri it takes like no time and i don't have to do anything
12:45 sri actually tempted to get a time capsule
12:46 crab what is a time capsule?
12:46 purl <clintp> Millions of years from now, when they unearth the remains of early 21st century civilization they'll find a disk drive, and find purl's memory...and wonder what the hell a "beer hunder" is and why it has karma.  Some research scientist will spend his life trying to figure that one out.
12:46 sri :D
12:46 * sri kisses purl
12:46 * purl swoons!
12:47 marcus yeah, it's great
12:47 marcus I have set it up to backup against my mini at home
12:47 Trelane sri: Are you backing up locally or via wifi?
12:47 marcus which is connected to the drobo
12:48 sri locally atm
12:48 Trelane I've never had much luck with wireless backup
12:48 sri wireless storage seems cool though
12:48 Trelane (I have an airport extreme)
12:48 marcus works for me
12:48 marcus I have an airport extreme too
12:48 marcus but I am not using it for backup
12:48 marcus since the drobo is connected to the mini
12:49 Trelane My new plan for backup is as follows:
12:49 Trelane - new usb/firewire hdd for timemachine when I'm in the office (three times a week)
12:49 Trelane - new usb/firewire for superduper when I'm at home (tbd once a week)
12:50 Trelane - dropbox / github
12:50 marcus you are home once a week?
12:50 marcus what does your wife think about that?
12:50 Trelane tbd = to be done
12:50 marcus oh, I thought it mean to be determined ;)
12:50 Trelane ha!
12:50 Trelane Yes, I'm home every night.  But I'm not going to plug my laptop in
12:51 Trelane The trouble with wireless backup is that I have to plug my laptop in
12:51 marcus wired even
12:51 Trelane It takes *forever* and you have to leave the thing plugged into the mains
12:51 Trelane No, wireless
12:51 marcus only the first time probably?
12:51 Trelane I have to remember to plug it into the mains and open it
12:51 marcus I usually only have a few megs of new data
12:51 Trelane It depends if you move things around
12:52 marcus well, since I switched to SSD, I don't really have that much storage anyways :)
12:52 Trelane anyway, that's my new plan.  to be implemented after payday
12:53 Trelane I've apparently got 240GB of data on this machine.
12:53 marcus "Dan sind wir helden, fur einen tag!"
12:53 sri ssd was really worth it
12:53 marcus sri: yeah
12:54 Trelane It was too expensive for me :-(
12:54 marcus Trelane: 120gb isn't that bad
12:54 sri especially stuff like git is soooooo fast now
12:54 yko hmm... $c->client->async will affetc all controller's clients and application client at the moment, right?
12:55 sri still scared of dead after a month though :S
12:55 marcus o/' Dann sind wir helden, für diesen tag! o/'
12:55 sri yko: yes
12:55 sri yko: you don't use it unless you really know what it means
12:56 yko i'm exploring changes right now
12:57 yko got tests broken for several applications, most looks like my design mistakes
12:57 sri we knew that would happen :/
12:57 yko ye, it's ok
12:57 sri people used ->async carelessly for no reason at all
12:57 yko well, i _had_ reasons to use async
12:57 sri hmm
12:58 marcus it sounded cooler.
12:58 yko in few cases i reused $client->async->ioloop - that was mistake
12:58 sri yea the ioloop trick
12:58 yko but now i'm faced with some problems i can't find the roots. so investigating further
12:58 yko can i ask stupid questions?
12:59 sri of course
12:59 yko (i can, but it's polite to ask :D)
12:59 yko untill i'm banned though
12:59 sri i would never ban for stupid questions :)
12:59 marcus what about stupid answers?
12:59 sri just rudeness, that's about it
12:59 yko dont forget that i can ban myself for that reasons :D
13:00 sri stupid answers might get you tarred and feathered
13:01 yko hmm. looks like most my problems are in tests
13:01 * sri wonders what to do with ->async
13:01 yko you already did, let users decide if they can live with that now, hehe
13:02 sri i could move the actual async functionality into an attribute and make async a noop
13:02 sri so ->async->get(...) would just perform the request blocking
13:02 sri kinda like a fallback
13:03 yko can you look please? i tried to made it as simple as possible... https://gist.github.com/068b7ffe5cd281719cac
13:03 yko the problem is that test case runs ioloop and never stop it
13:03 sri wrong ioloop
13:03 sri client has a random one
13:04 sri you need the server loop to go async
13:04 yko so, asyn don't reuse singleton now?
13:04 yko async
13:04 sri async doesn't do anything
13:04 sri just disables stuff
13:04 yko oooh. so async like deprecated at the moment?
13:04 sri it is much much more complicated :/
13:04 yko i'm sorry if i ask really stupid questions, i can missunderstand you
13:05 sri actually, i don't know how to answer it without explaining internals for an hour :S
13:05 yko ok, just ignore me
13:05 sri that's why i'm thinking about deprecating ->async alltogether and make it block for now
13:07 sri yea, there is no way i can explain the changes
13:08 sri too complicated
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13:08 sri gonna deprecate
13:08 sri and fallback to blocking
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13:10 yko hmm... i'm gonna ask one more stupid question
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13:11 yko that test case can be forced to pass by $t->client->ioloop->timer(1 => sub { shift->stop })
13:11 yko is there better way to do that?
13:11 sri i don't understand the question
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13:13 yko ok, i think you have much things to do and i won't take you time more now
13:13 yko i need to go offline and investigate by myself
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13:33 GitHub9 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 6161d8a (11 files in 7 dirs): deprecated Mojo::Client async method in favor of the managed attribute - http://bit.ly/emOvkr
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13:33 sri ok, hope that's a better solution
13:38 yko typo? https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blo​b/master/lib/Mojo/Client.pm#L1264
13:38 perlrocks Twitter: "If you're using the async method Mojo::Client please make sure to test the latest github version of #mojolicious. http://t.co/6Vvd0ye #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/38593054885687296
13:51 espent it doesnt look like mojo::plugin::i18n checks the language files for syntax errors?
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13:54 GitHub147 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 31f0ba7 (1 files in 1 dirs): simplified description - http://bit.ly/fHLrz3
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14:01 tempire 5.12.3 is bobo.  I couldn't get it to compile on my mac.
14:01 sri compiled fine with perlbrew here
14:01 * tempire tries again
14:08 sri hmm, now that ->async is deprecated i can do some more extreme hacks to replicate the old functionality
14:08 sri bug for bug
14:09 marcus sri++ # bug for bug compatible
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14:14 GitHub114 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 8b8eb34 (1 files in 1 dirs): bug for bug backwards compatibility - http://bit.ly/e6IN0g
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14:14 sri that should do the trick
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14:15 sri ops
14:15 sri one bug too much
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14:15 GitHub168 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * b207caa (1 files in 1 dirs): fixed typo - http://bit.ly/fxv9o5
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14:16 sri still not sure if "managed" is the right name
14:18 su-bzero sri: "If you're using the async method Mojo::Client please make sure to test..." We've tested and nothing works, only tests. ;)
14:18 sri su-bzero: try again
14:18 su-bzero Ok. Thanks.
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14:27 sri damn, still a bug
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14:29 GitHub2 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * df74127 (1 files in 1 dirs): fixed bug for bug compatibility - http://bit.ly/dUu0bw
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14:29 sri su-bzero: now really :)
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14:33 * sri starts to like limechat
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14:40 sri still not 100% happy with the name "managed"
14:41 moritz "runlooped"?
14:41 * moritz not entirely serious
14:42 sri $client->assisted(0)
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14:43 crab $client->share_ioloop(1)
14:43 sri it's not that simple
14:43 sri there's more connected to it
14:44 marcus impaired!
14:44 marcus ;)
14:44 crab "independent"? no, not quite
14:44 sri "free"
14:45 crab i thought of suggesting free yesterday, but it seems too overloaded
14:45 sri it is
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14:45 sri the decision for the user really comes down to "do i want to let the client manage the ioloop or not"
14:46 marcus ->automatic
14:46 crab ->cooperative
14:46 marcus ->bogart
14:46 sri ->egoistic
14:46 tempire ->uptight
14:47 tempire ->IWANTTOPLAYTOO
14:47 marcus tempire: now you ruined it!
14:47 marcus ;-)
14:47 tempire ->saddened
14:47 sri ->everyoneforhimself
14:48 tempire $$oldschool
14:48 crab it would be nice if you didn't have to declare it at all. something like creating an ioloop first and adding a client to it, and the client knows it should use that one. but i know that's not how it works.
14:49 sri we've tried magic before
14:49 sri and nobody including me understood it
14:49 crab fair enough.
14:49 tempire sometimes there are no unicorns :(
14:50 sri and you have to make your own raibows
14:50 sri *+n
14:50 tempire what does it mean?
14:50 sri WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
14:51 sri an async_client plugin would make sense now btw
14:51 sri it could bail out unless Mojo::IOLoop->singleton->is_running
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14:52 crab $client->owns_ioloop(0)
14:52 marcus double rainbows!
14:52 sri closer
14:52 marcus $client->pwned
14:52 sri $client->supreme
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14:53 crab maybe since this is a specialised need, even the longer ->manages_ioloop() is ok
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14:53 tempire wait...I could have sworn I had two kidneys...
14:53 crab at least it's clearer
14:54 marcus tempire: remember to count your lungs as well.
14:54 AmeliePoulain left #mojo
14:54 tempire CRAP
14:55 crab ->self_igniting
14:56 crab ok, i give up and go to dinner
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14:57 * tempire is a vibrant community
14:57 perlrocks Twitter: "#mojolicious keeps growing quickly, 100 people on the irc channel now! :) #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/38613042862358528
14:58 sri that's you!
14:59 moritz 15:58 -!- Irssi: #mojo: Total of 99 nicks
14:59 moritz not quite there yet :-)
14:59 sri when i tweeted we were 100 ;p
14:59 tempire what happened to rhaen?
14:59 moritz and at least one of 'em is a bot
15:00 marcus yeah, sri
15:00 sri purl: are you a bot?
15:00 purl a bot? yeah right.
15:00 moritz well, two of 'em actually :-)
15:00 sri bots are people too!
15:01 sri i'm sure there's a futurama quote for that
15:01 tempire http://www.valiantfan.com/vali​ant/CD/vh1/Magnus/magnus0.jpg
15:02 marcus sri: but is there an app for that?
15:03 marcus 287 in #catalyst
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15:08 * magnus kills purl
15:08 purl kills purl with what?
15:09 * sri stabs purl
15:09 * purl falls on sri.
15:09 * magnus rips out the purl power source
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15:11 sri su-bzero: any results? i want to make a bugfix release later
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15:16 kimoto I want to ask hyponotoad server and DBI.
15:18 kimoto I think that in prefork server DBI connection must not be  established  in startup() method.
15:18 kimoto Is this right?
15:18 sri you need a connection manager that is process aware
15:19 sri like DBIx::Connector
15:23 kimoto in startup() DBIx::Connecter object is saved to app object.
15:23 kimoto Is this right?
15:26 sri yes
15:26 marcus DBIx::Awesome
15:28 kimoto If performance is not important, Is it ok that in before_dispache hook connection is established.
15:29 kimoto marcus, sri: thanks, i will see.DBIx::Connector and DBix::Awesome.
15:29 marcus kimoto: sorry, that was a joke
15:30 kimoto very bad?
15:32 marcus yes
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15:33 jfuller marcus: In all fairness, in a channel for something called "Mojolicious" why shouldn't he believe there is a "DBIx::Awesome" ;-)
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15:33 marcus kimoto: yeah, very bad joke
15:35 kimoto marcus: i don't say your joke is bad. i say above my question is bad way or not about connecting in before_dispatch.
15:36 marcus no, your question was fine
15:36 * marcus is totally ready for weekend now
15:42 crab kimoto: it's ok to do it in before_dispatch if you're _always_ going to need the connection
15:43 crab kimoto: what i do is set an attribute on the app with a sub to return a new dbh
15:43 crab kimoto: then if i actually _use_ $self->app->db somewhere, i get a new connection at that time, and the connection is reused for as long as the process is alive.
15:44 crab kimoto: with before_dispatch you're going to waste open connections in any non-daemon environment.
15:46 crab er
15:46 crab s/non-//
15:46 kimoto crab: thanks. that is better way than me.
15:47 crab kimoto: in startup, i have __PACKAGE__->attr(db => sub {DBI->connect(...)})
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15:52 kimoto is "sub db { DBI->connect(...) }" is rigth? when preforking, connection is maybe disconnect, but db is remained.
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15:57 crab kimoto: you are right, but if you use DBIx::Connector in the same way, it will work fine
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16:11 kimoto crab: thanks.
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16:30 GitHub114 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 77aaa8f (2 files in 2 dirs): release preparation - http://bit.ly/ijOj0o
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16:30 sri $client->selfish maybe
16:32 sri $client->cooperative(0)
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17:07 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 1.11 by KRAIH - http://frepan.org/~kraih/Mojolicious-1.11/" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/38645794894512128
17:07 perlrocks Twitter: "Released #mojolicious 1.11 with a few important bugfixes. :) #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/38645856525754368
17:07 Akron sri: It takes all control, so it should have three letters!
17:08 * sri controls Akron into the alligator pit
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17:09 crab i kinda liked ->cooperative(1) but it sounds negative somehow, not just unusual as it should.
17:10 * Akron assures the alligator his real name 'akr'.
17:10 sri managed works for now
17:13 stephan48 what should it do?
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21:19 MojoGuest253 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (247 hits)
21:19 MojoGuest253 weeee
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21:19 elb0whtml5 cool
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21:19 MojoGuest7 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (248 hits)
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22:49 perlrocks Twitter: "new #opensuse package of perl-Mojolicious 1.11 (The Web In A Box!) in http://r.opensu.se/devel:languages:perl.repo" --yaloki http://twitter.com/yaloki/status/38731947039662081
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