Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-02-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:32 perlrocks Twitter: "Get more mojo with AnyEvent: http://bit.ly/hjOJxm #mojolicious #perl #anyevent #async" --gracnar http://twitter.com/gracnar​/status/39120170278461440
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07:50 Topic for #mojo is now join the revolution ♥ http://mojolicio.ushttp://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/today
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08:32 sri good morning fellow evil dictators
09:00 crab good morning sri </chorus>
09:01 gabb mornin :)
09:04 gabb I'm somewhat impressed with how much the java community has caught up with
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09:10 marcus gabb: Java? I thought Oracle killed that.
09:10 gabb thought so too, but apparently there are a few less shitty companies around that still do decent work
09:10 crab caught up with what?
09:11 gabb maybe I shouldn't say Java lol, Groovy, which however can be seen as a java-dialect, seeing as it runs on JVM etc
09:11 gabb Spring Framework, Grails, etc. - all quite nice projects as far as I have tested them
09:11 marcus Groovy isn' java tho
09:11 marcus any more than jruby is
09:12 gabb well, its a bit closer to java than jruby imo - also with Grails it doesn't really matter what you use as you can write a mix of Java and Groovy
09:12 gabb you can have a fullblown grails app written in POJO if you like
09:14 gabb crab: as for your question: caught up with the agility of (web)development you see in other languages and platforms
09:14 marcus yay fullblown
09:14 marcus >o
09:15 gabb only integration is still a bit shitty ;S
09:15 gabb when you build a technology stack like Grails + SpringData + Maven + AspectJ you soon run into complications
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09:28 crab i feel slightly fortunate to not know what any of those are.
09:29 gabb heh - you very well might be :P
09:32 gabb Grails = mvc framework like Catalyst (I won't insult sri by saying like Mojo :P), SpringData = bindings for non-standard data models (like Couch, Mongo, Neo4j, Hadoop, etc.), Maven = very very nice software management tool/suite, AspectJ = Aspect-oriented Programming for Java
09:41 * sri only likes Scala
09:41 sri akka and lift are quite impressive
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09:51 gabb yes, lift comes with quite a few claims and it backs them up
09:51 gabb but it has a somewhat small ecosystem/community
09:51 gabb which is the downfall for every major project imo
09:51 gabb but its growing I guess
09:53 marcus I'm not switching to php java or c# just because they have the biggest ecosystems...
09:55 gabb I wasn't suggesting switching between languages (for me java, groovy, scala - all not soo different once you got the hang of it)
09:56 gabb but someone deciding whether to use maypole, catalyst or mojo may look at the ecosystem and decide if the existing synthetic sugar / plugins / data bindings in the respective frameworks are enough
09:56 gabb and if there is a vibrant/active (and preferably helpful) community around it
09:56 sri jvm makes it not worth it anyway
09:57 marcus hmm, @jonlech is confused.
09:58 crab i remember trying out lift because someone i respect wanted to use it for a project.
09:59 crab after installing 50-odd MB of packages to get java working, i followed the installation instructions, and it downloaded and installed things for four hours.
09:59 crab and at the end of all that, the hello world example didn't work.
09:59 marcus did you still respect them in the morning?
09:59 gabb lol
09:59 crab :-)
10:00 gabb crab: you realize the irony in complaining about lots of installation time and packages, right :D
10:00 gabb mojo is a fresh change in that regard, but oh my god, catalyst ...
10:01 crab gabb: um, no. why, am i somehow responsible for making people install a lot of packages?
10:01 marcus I am.
10:01 gabb Marcus, Package Manager From Hell
10:01 marcus I have the module with the biggest dependency graph on cpan :p
10:01 gabb :P
10:01 * crab transfers all the irony from himself to marcus
10:02 gabb thats the perlhacker equivalent of an e-peen? :P
10:02 marcus http://ali.as/top100/
10:03 marcus wow, drolsky is trying to challenge me
10:03 marcus with another wiki!
10:04 crab wikis at dawn
10:04 gabb I think its time to upload emoticon plugins marcus, for every emoticon its own plugin, as a core dependency
10:04 marcus oh
10:04 gabb do not let drolsky take the glory away from you!
10:04 marcus I already have an emoticon plugin
10:04 marcus it supports all the msn ones
10:04 gabb then add a 4chan-emoticon-plugin :P
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10:05 gabb just last week someone told me about MoinMoin and I thought he misspelt and meant MojoMojo
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10:09 marcus seems http://silkiwiki.org/wiki/datetime/dashboard is a silkiwiki
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10:22 perlrocks Twitter: "koorchik's Perl blog: How the session Mojolicious?! http://ff.im/yqT7F" (ru) --planetperlru http://twitter.com/planetper​lru/status/39268553391742976
10:27 * sri wonders which sci-fi anime movies he still needs to see
10:27 sri guess appleseed 1 and 2
10:43 crab oh. as it happens i was also writing about mojolicious session cookies.
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11:20 s0va gabb: you should use maven.
11:20 gabb I am, I love it
11:21 s0va i would really like to learn scala more.
11:21 gabb its just that so many people are bad at using it - e.g. uploading broken POMs etc
11:21 s0va akka 1.0 was released ...
11:21 s0va actors are the way to do things concurrently in scalable way.
11:22 s0va gabb: works in our company... but yes, you're right... i had to be very fascistic in first 6 months...
11:23 s0va i think that some people still hate me becouse of that :)
11:23 s0va now we have software bundle deployment system based on maven repository server (+ lightweight perl "maven" compatibility script ofcourse)
11:27 gabb sweet
11:27 gabb I am running a local maven repository for all my projects recently - at first its annoying that you have additional overhead, but its so worth it
11:29 s0va yep.
11:29 gabb I should take a look at Play + Akka
11:29 s0va nexus is really *this is the shit* piece of software
11:44 sri somehow oracle will manage to kill jvm
11:44 sri i bet on commercial licenses for more performance or so
11:46 gabb *shudders*
11:46 gabb someone keep the Oracle CEO away from news about Apple ;)
11:48 sri i've heard rumors about a faster jvm they've bought not too long ago
11:49 sri would make perfect sense, they have the patents to keep people from making new ones
11:49 gabb lol
11:49 sri they keep the slowest one open source and sell more performance for cash
11:50 sri don't say that doesn't sound like oracle :)
11:51 gabb well it does - but look where not thinking about the commercial side got Sun :P
11:52 gabb and alot of problems people see in Java were still not fixed or rather created during Sun's rule
11:52 gabb the optimist in me hopes that a more software-centric company like Oracle will see and understand the value of Java, not necessarily as a commercial product, but as an integral part of their own operations
11:53 gabb commercializing java would more or less mean the death of Oracle too
11:53 gabb they are one (if not the biggest) employer of java coders - almost all their product rely on java
11:53 gabb fucking that up is a suicide attempt
11:55 sri look what they did with apache
11:56 sri or hudson
11:56 sri they surely don't have long term plans
11:57 sri all just short term profit
11:58 gabb well yes, but good things dont die
11:58 gabb Hudson has a revival
11:59 gabb diff name, same people and code IIRC
11:59 gabb Apache ... yea, that was shit
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12:02 gabb what the fuck ...
12:02 purl Unimplemented.
12:02 gabb http://twitpic.com/41hup8
12:02 gabb not sure if fake quote or real quote
12:05 gabb hmm... bad edit apparently
12:07 marcus is it?
12:07 purl it's it!
12:09 marcus When asked about situations in which women become pregnant after being raped, Bieber said he believed "everything happens for a reason," but noted, "I haven't been in that position, so I wouldn't be able to judge that."
12:10 gabb Well, the not-paraphrased version is:
12:10 gabb "Um. Well, I think that's really sad, but everything happens for a reason. I don't know how that would be a reason. I guess I haven't been in that position, so I wouldn't be able to judge that."
12:10 gabb I think the last part kinda shows that he simply can't make sense of it
12:12 gabb Besides, I do not think a 16 year old boy should be expected to have a pleasing opinion on a topic/policy that keeps a few thousand politicians and policy-makers awake at night
12:12 gabb that aside: I enjoyed the CSI scene where Bieber got shot, which he has coming for his music and hair cut, but not for a rolling stones interview
12:13 marcus yeah. I have a couple of Bieber fans at work :Z
12:13 gabb WTF, you fo' real homie?
12:13 sri :o
12:13 marcus yeah. One of them is 19 tho..
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12:13 gabb I thought you do coding for a living, when did you become a kindergarden teacher? :D
12:14 sri haha
12:14 marcus when I started a consulting company :p
12:14 marcus We like to hire them young :P
12:15 gabb perv!
12:15 gabb (would do the same :P)
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12:34 crab what exactly is the problem with older versions of IO::Socket::SSL?
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12:43 sri there are too many
12:44 sri some older versions might even work somewhat, others block or break on handshake errors... and and and
12:45 sri don't even think about suggesting to support older ones
12:46 marcus oh, what a great idea, sri!
12:46 marcus </troll>
12:47 sri we are now finally passing tls tests on cpantesters, there is no way i'm gambling with that ever again
12:51 crab sri: i have no desire to support any such thing
12:51 crab i just wanted to know what was wrong earlier. "too broken" is fine.
12:54 sri ok :)
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13:27 dotan I want to reuse a single Mojo::Client, so I want to set it up and start it if this is the 1st transaction, or queue the transaction if the client has already started. What's the idiomatic way to do this? Is there one or should I use my own flag?
13:29 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojolic​ious/Guides/Cookbook#Non2DBlocking # ?
13:31 dotan sri: yes, probably that. Thanks!
13:41 crab btw http://toroid.org/ams/etc/m​ojolicious-session-cookies
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13:57 dotan There should be a CSS3 selector for "table cell that doesn't contain any more frakin' tables".
14:02 sri actually you might be able to do that with :not
14:03 sri dt > :not(table)
14:03 sri *td
14:05 dotan sri: that's actually pretty. Too bad I'm planning to parse this in chunks (because the HTML is so big with table inflation), so I probably can't use Mojo::DOM :(
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14:12 crab i hope i never have to parse such huge globs of (poorly-formed?) HTML
14:13 dotan crab: avoid scientists and patent lawyers.
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14:18 crab good general advice.
14:20 * gabb snickers as he tried to load 49,000 poorly formated XML entities into his app
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14:43 perlrocks Twitter: "Abhijit Menon-Sen: Mojolicious session cookies http://bit.ly/g4yWlq" (sq) --perlironman http://twitter.com/perlironm​an/status/39334376718204929
14:45 crab yikes
14:46 sri crab++
14:47 crab i didn't do it!
14:48 sri someone else is blogging in your name? Oo
14:48 sri someone-else++
14:49 crab well, no. but i don't know why my article got perlironman'ed. and now i fear someone will be annoyed with me when i next post something not about perl.
14:50 sri it looks for perl in the article text
14:51 sri random articles don't appear
14:51 crab oh, whew.
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14:57 crab there's actually a separate feed for perl articles.
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17:32 perlrocks Twitter: "#FreeBSD port www/p5-#Mojolicious refreshed some days ago to 1.1. Thx to maintainer. #perl" --shoorick77 http://twitter.com/shoorick​77/status/39376972257837056
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21:23 perlrocks Twitter: "koorchik's Perl blog: Mojolicious - interview with Sebastian Riedel (Sebastian Riedel) http://ff.im/ysKBl" (ru) --planetperlru http://twitter.com/planetper​lru/status/39434961933172736
21:42 perlrocks Twitter: "Neat, the interview from last week has been translated to russian. :) http://t.co/JjnufMp #mojolicious #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/39439791418249216
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