Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-02-26

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01:29 perlrocks Twitter: "@kraih What's the name of the template language #mojolicious uses?  eperl?" --ericpromislow http://twitter.com/ericpromis​low/status/41308741420851200
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03:29 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-Cache 0.0013 by SIDD - http://frepan.org/~sidd/Mojo​licious-Plugin-Cache-0.0013/" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/41339016250920960
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03:51 minimalist Does anyone know is the current version is stable enough for deploying large applications?
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04:14 tempire minimalist: yes.
04:14 tempire if you're deploying to production, however, pay attention to the 'experimental' warnings.
04:15 minimalist how about the internal template system. How well has it been tested?
04:16 tempire there are gobs and gobs of tests.  I haven't put it into production myself, but I know others have.
04:18 minimalist tempire, I have to experience with Dancer, but I'm interested in Mojo. Can you outline some pros and cons?
04:18 * minimalist thanks tempire for his help
04:19 tempire dancer is a micro-framework for small apps.
04:19 tempire mojolicious is a catalyst-class framework
04:20 tempire to give you some context, the author of mojolicious is the author of catalyst; he moved on and created mojolicious.
04:21 minimalist yep, that's my conclusion about dancer as well. I'm developing a large app and I hit a few restrictions with it.
04:22 minimalist ok, thanks for your help. I'll play with mojo a little and how I like it.
04:22 tempire you probably want to start with mojolicious::lite pod
04:22 tempire then move on to the growing guide
04:23 minimalist yeah, I already went over lite and I liked it.
04:23 minimalist how about using different template systems, like TT?
04:23 tempire any templating system will work
04:24 mateu in fairness there a multiple authors to catalyst, some moved on others didn't
04:25 minimalist mateu, I've seen you at #dancer. What is you take on the pros and cons of both?
04:25 tempire correct; I should have said 'the founder', not 'the author'
04:27 mateu tempire: thanks.  I agree, there are founders/originators and then there are (often) lots of contributors, just like what you do with mojo
04:29 mateu minimalist: I don't have a deep enough experience to say much about "big apps", but I like both.
04:29 minimalist ok, thanks
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07:53 marcus sri++ # raptor
08:49 crab raptor?
08:49 purl it has been said that raptor is _really_ nice.
09:30 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-Cache-0.0012-TRIAL http://ff.im/yTOnR" --sharifulin http://twitter.com/shariful​in/status/41429846613700609
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11:54 GitHub166 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 7830ec6 (1 files in 1 dirs): fixed small test issue - http://bit.ly/hYXbK0
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11:57 sri good morning sunshines
12:08 crab i am confused about logging.
12:08 crab by default, logs go to $mode.log, right? and if i set log->path(undef), they go to the console. and that's all there is to it?
12:09 crab there's no built-in way to write logs to both console and a file, is there?
12:10 sri right
12:11 sri sensible default for 99% of all cases
12:11 sri use a plugin if you want more ;)
12:17 DaTa fixed the yaml plugin on github
12:17 sri DaTa++
12:18 crab i wonder if i would prefer to write my config files in yaml
12:19 DaTa crab: needed that at work, all our config files are yaml there
12:20 sri most perl programmers don't enjoy significant whitespace though
12:21 crab sri: may i suggest an addition to the docs somewhere explaining exactly what something marked "experimental" means? and that they'll become non-experimental given enough feedback about their use?
12:21 crab i don't know where such a note belongs, though
12:21 sri it's in the coding guidelines
12:22 sri i would expect most perl programmers to know already what experimental means
12:22 DaTa sri: the people writing the config are not perl programmers ;)
12:22 DaTa s/perl //
12:23 sri yaml doesn't seem ideal for those
12:23 crab well, i'd expect most people who understand english to understand what experimental means
12:24 sri crab: why were you suggesting it anyway? i've not seen many people misunderstand it yet
12:25 DaTa at least you can comment the yaml
12:25 crab <su-bzero> "Client->managed is EXPERIMENTAL (on by default), Client->async is DEPRECATED. Is mojo client experimentally-deprecated?" Is it real?
12:25 sri crab: he knows exactly what it means
12:25 sri he just chose to be an ass
12:26 crab it did sound a wee bit trollish at the time
12:26 crab sri: but it's the "give feedback" part that i thought should be made clear
12:26 sri he wrote some of the experimental features of ioloop
12:26 sri resolver
12:26 purl resolver is clearly superior.
12:26 sri pure trolling
12:27 crab heh, resolver is clearly superior
12:27 * sri hugs purl
12:27 * purl hugs sri back
12:28 crab i wonder if i should change all my named-like-this config variables to named_like_this ones and use the perl config thing
12:28 crab (instead of json, as now)
12:28 crab not quoting keys is just so _nice_
12:29 sri well, i really enjoy perl config files
12:29 sri should have had those from the start for apps without non-programmer constraints
12:33 crab sri: you didn't make the "don't die if app.conf doesn't exist but app.mode.conf does" change that was proposed on the list along with the Plugin::Config change, did you?
12:33 sri nope
12:33 sri there are negative side effects
12:34 sri it is not very elegant
12:35 crab okay
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14:42 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious no longer in vogue, IOLoop sadly unstable. I write, not putting a tag to sri not banned on the channel due to bad feedback. .) # Perl" (ru) --su_bzero http://twitter.com/su_bzer​o/status/41508303079096320
14:42 su-bzero ;)) O, it has caught me. Bad conspiration.
14:44 sri su-bzero: ?
14:45 sri su-bzero: why are you doing that?
14:45 su-bzero I've written it in russian. Does your bot use google translate?
14:45 sri of course it does
14:46 sri i've asked you many many times to report bugs
14:46 su-bzero sri: Do you afraid about any feedbacks? Not good feedbacks are feedbacks too.
14:47 sri su-bzero: i do not ever ban for bad feedback, just rude behavior
14:47 sri and right now you are quite rude
14:47 su-bzero It was a joke. '.)' - smile.
14:48 sri this reminds me very much of the und3f situation
14:48 sri su-bzero: ok, final warning, play nice or don't play at all
14:49 su-bzero und3f was so rude?
14:49 sri please stop it and just be nice from now on
14:50 su-bzero Ok.
15:02 sri any russians here that can verify that the original tweet was indeed funny?
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15:39 GitHub77 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * de68320 (1 files in 1 dirs): added frequently asked question - http://bit.ly/hmRxBG
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15:39 sri crab: done :)
15:41 perlrocks Twitter: "Hope this makes backwards compatibility in #mojolicious more transparent. http://t.co/MwnWoRU #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/41523321430491136
15:48 su-bzero was kicked by sri: bye
15:53 garu sri: small typo on the back-compat FAQ entry: s/maked/marked/
15:53 sri ops
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15:54 GitHub33 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 86c66fb (1 files in 1 dirs): fixed typo - http://bit.ly/hx9khd
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15:54 sri thanks
15:55 garu np :)
15:56 perlrocks Twitter: "RUBY Y U NO LISTEN???    RT @kraih: Hope this makes backwards compatibility in #mojolicious more transparent. http://t.co/MwnWoRU #perl" --obfuscurity http://twitter.com/obfuscuri​ty/status/41526845262401536
15:56 sri heh
15:59 sri think i'll open a spreadshirt shop for perl5 raptor t-shirts :D
16:00 moritz .oO( raptors: always one step ahead of the average predator )
16:01 sri keep them coming!
16:03 sri i really liked "where is *your* language on the foo chain?"
16:03 sri *+d
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17:21 sri hmm, raptor with butterfly on its nose would be a fun perl6 variation :)
17:27 marcus :D
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17:43 chansen heh
17:46 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-reCAPTCHA 0.2 by DMITRYNOD - http://frepan.org/ ~ dmitrynod/Mojolicious-Plugin-Recaptcha-0.2 /" (lv) --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/41554692991492096
17:51 magnus typo in the faq's backwards compatibility section
17:52 magnus "This gives us the neccessary freedom to ensure a healthy future for Mojolicious." - should be "necessary"
17:52 sri oh noes
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17:53 GitHub98 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * bfae754 (1 files in 1 dirs): fixed another typo - http://bit.ly/fvdAf8
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17:53 sri thanks
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18:49 minimalist hi all. I'm new to mojo and I have a question: It seems it uses %ENV all over. Would that work if an application is deployed under Plack?
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19:08 marcus <3 Mojo::DOM
19:09 marcus just scraped all relevant information from the app store information in like 10 lines
19:09 marcus http://pastie.textmate.org/p​rivate/mojt4eaqqrpegtmnecdq
19:10 marcus minimalist: yeah, that should not be a problem
19:11 sri cute
19:15 marcus sri: you should see the horrible regexps it replaces
19:17 perlrocks Twitter: "Preparing a little #mojolicious marketing poster to demonstrate how to use the #perl raptor logo properly. :) http://t.co/mYLkYL9" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/41577597766873088
19:20 sri not like it will keep people from butchering it -.-
19:23 * marcus prepares for butchering
19:23 marcus yum, raptor steaks
19:30 marcus sri: don't you think you were a bit harsh on su-bzero?
19:30 sri marcus: nope, i've tried to talk it over in query without result
19:31 marcus ok, just asking
19:36 chansen sri: did you draw the raptor yourself?
19:36 sri yes
19:36 sri i draw everything myself
19:36 chansen nice =)
19:37 sri very relaxing :)
19:37 chansen I can only tell a bad design from a good one, but I can't design a good one ;P
19:40 sri i like how flaws can actually make a drawing better, good balance to programming ;p
19:53 minimalist I have a question about writing plugins:
19:54 minimalist when we write them, can we also include quotes from "Desperate housewives"? It's a great show and it deserves the recognition next to Futurama et al.
19:54 crab hahah
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19:56 sri lol
19:56 * sri pushes minimalist into the alligator pit
19:57 marcus I'm going to start including quotes from breaking bad in mine.
19:58 * sri has never seen that show
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20:22 marcus sri: if 'at' matches several elements will it pick the first?
20:22 sri always
20:23 sri that's the whole point of it
20:23 marcus sri: also, what does $dom->attr do? I mistyped $dom->attr('foo')  instead of $dom->attrs->{foo} and it returned undef
20:23 sri inherited from Mojo::Base
20:23 marcus oh, makes sense
20:23 sri we now also have ->attrs('foo')
20:23 marcus cool
20:24 marcus I was just expecting attr because of jquery
20:24 sri you're not the only one :/
20:25 marcus maybe subclass it and stuff a warning in it if you call it on a Mojo::DOM instance?
20:25 marcus (Adding an accessor to $dom, this might not be what you wanted to do)
20:25 sri we could also make it just do the right thing
20:26 marcus yeah
20:26 sri but kinda don't like it since we've broken with the jquery api before
20:26 sri add_before/add_after instead of before/after come to mind
20:27 marcus well, calling attr on a Mojo::DOM instance is almost never right, is it?
20:28 marcus and it leads to silent errors
20:28 sri maybe there are use cases, who knows
20:28 marcus indeed
20:29 marcus so do the warning?
20:29 sri really not sure
20:29 sri actually i'm tempted to just wait and see if it really becomes a problem
20:30 sri maybe there's a better solution we've just not found yet
20:30 marcus ok. it has already been a problem for me =)
20:31 sri purl: take a note
20:31 purl sri: sorry...
20:32 * sri kicks purl
20:32 * purl kicks sri
20:32 sri :o
20:34 minimalist is Mojolicious::Plugin::Config deprecated? I can load it via $self->plugin('config');
20:34 sri it's brand new
20:34 minimalist so it's buggy or what?
20:35 sri ?
20:36 minimalist I'm super new to Mojolicious and I'm trying to move my Dancer app over to it. I can't get Mojolicious::Plugin::Config to load.
20:36 sri did you mean to say you *can't* load it?
20:36 minimalist yeah, sorry .. a typo
20:36 sri it is not on cpan yet, just github
20:36 minimalist ah
20:37 sri just json_config in the cpan version
20:37 minimalist fair enough
20:37 tempire As the appointed sheriff, I declare that sri was not too hard on su-bzero.
20:37 sri \o/
20:37 * tempire sprinkles glitter on sri
20:38 sri damn, most of those google webfonts are horrible
20:39 * tempire pulls minimalist out of the alligator pit and feeds him to marcus
20:39 * sri wonders what happened to yko
20:40 * sri files a missing persons report with the channel sheriff
20:41 sri s/persons/alligators/
20:41 marcus sri: maybe he joined the rest of the russians in #mojo-burnouts ?
20:41 sri unpossible
20:41 purl me fail english? that's unpossible!
20:41 * tempire sets the frequency to trolololo and monitors the tubes.
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20:46 minimalist can anyone recommend a proper way to connect to DBIC? a plugin maybe?
20:49 tempire using lite?
20:49 minimalist non-lite
20:52 marcus helper?
20:52 purl helper is a thin wrapper for Schema::Loader
20:52 tempire $self->helper( db => sub {  My::Schema->connect($dsn, $user, $pass) } );
20:53 tempire there's a number of different ways to do it.  It's simple enough so there's no need for a plugin.
20:53 minimalist thanks
20:54 marcus sri: is your poster for http://mdk.per.ly/2011/02/25/i-need-your-help/ ?
20:54 sri marcus: yes, joined #epo yesterday :)
20:54 marcus sweet
20:54 sri they were surprisingly friendly
20:55 marcus well, mst says he invited you a long time ago.
20:55 marcus (to be a part of epo)
20:55 sri well, i did not join epo, just #epo
20:55 marcus close enough ;)
20:58 marcus promoting perl is the important bit
20:59 sri right
21:00 minimalist speaking of perl ... I was fucking with python the other day, doing some bentchmarks. It turns out Perl is 4.5 times faster.
21:02 tempire anyone here use riak?
21:06 marcus minimalist: I'm sure that depends on what you are doing.
21:06 sri depends very much on what you're doing
21:06 sri and which python you use
21:07 sri pypy for example has jit
21:07 minimalist it was a simple test. I made them both count to 10 million.
21:09 minimalist python 3 takes almost 5 seconds on my computer. perl takes 1 and something
21:10 sri good to know if i ever need to write a program that counts to 10 million :)
21:10 moritz how many of your real programs do nothing but counting to 10 million?
21:11 * sri wins
21:11 * marcus hands sri the internets
21:11 * moritz bows
21:11 sri \o/
21:11 tempire moritz: at least one.
21:11 purl i heard at least one was NO THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE, HIGHLANDER!
21:11 marcus that one
21:11 purl hmmm... that one is sartak's fault even
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21:44 perlrocks Twitter: "Just rewrote the iusethis iPhone App Store integration. Much more robust now, using Mojolicious CSS selectors." --marcusramberg http://twitter.com/marcusramb​erg/status/41614514935959552
22:26 minimalist How do you access plugin data (for example your comfig) within your base class?
22:27 minimalist s/comfig/config/
22:27 marcus you mean in startup?
22:27 minimalist yes
22:27 marcus my $config=$self->plugin('json_config');
22:28 minimalist thanks
22:32 minimalist how do you access the same data from an outside script, for example as a small utility script.
22:34 marcus I have been asking that too :p
22:35 minimalist no big deal
22:35 purl Yes it is!  I hate you I hate you
22:36 marcus purl: botsnack
22:36 purl :)
22:52 * sri pushes purl into the alligator pit
22:58 minimalist Does a helper anonymous sub take $self as first arg? The POD does not say so, but it looks like that's the case.
22:59 minimalist oops my bad
22:59 minimalist the POD says so
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23:54 j-v-e hi there
23:54 purl hey, j-v-e.
23:54 j-v-e hey purl, polite as always
23:55 j-v-e how manys mode does mojolicious have ? only developement and production ?

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