| Time |
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Message |
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| 03:14 |
sri |
moritz: there are full async examples |
| 03:15 |
sri |
moritz: anyway, you probably shouldn't do async |
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| 06:21 |
marcus |
I can't take it, I can't take it no more. |
| 06:21 |
marcus |
sri: it's funny how you've turned from 'Async is awesome', to 'Dont do async'. |
| 06:22 |
sri |
marcus: people are not ready for async yet! |
| 06:23 |
marcus |
sri: well, they have to deal with it in javascript :) |
| 06:23 |
marcus |
I do lots of async in obj-c |
| 06:23 |
sri |
then *you* are ready |
| 06:24 |
marcus |
sri: it's hard, but the end result can be so worth it. |
| 06:25 |
sri |
see, you even know the tradeoffs |
| 06:25 |
sri |
normal perl hackers don't though |
| 06:26 |
marcus |
!tweet "You want the async? You can't *handle* the async!" |
| 06:26 |
marcus |
hmm, what happened to perlrocks? |
| 06:26 |
sri |
it doesn't tweet anymore |
| 06:26 |
sri |
just follows |
| 06:26 |
marcus |
and all the old tweets are gone |
| 06:27 |
sri |
didn't get used enough to make it worth the effort |
| 06:28 |
sri |
you are the first to try it in months ;p |
| 06:29 |
moritz |
sri: why shouldn't I do async? |
| 06:30 |
marcus |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo&feature=related |
| 06:30 |
moritz |
sri: and the only async examples I've seen are related to web sockets, not normal requests |
| 06:30 |
marcus |
moritz: to do async, just add a callback. |
| 06:30 |
marcus |
moritz: but it will take you outside the security nets |
| 06:30 |
moritz |
in what way? |
| 06:31 |
marcus |
moritz: the callback will be processed outside the normal request handling, so you'll have to use render_later, and render from your callback. |
| 06:31 |
marcus |
also, it won't work in non-daemon servers |
| 06:32 |
moritz |
so far I'm talking about clients |
| 06:32 |
marcus |
moritz: clients not running inside a web request? |
| 06:33 |
moritz |
marcus: for now, yes |
| 06:33 |
sri |
http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojo/UserAgent#get |
| 06:33 |
sri |
example right there |
| 06:33 |
marcus |
moritz: what do you hope to gain by using async? |
| 06:34 |
sri |
http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojolicious/Guides/Cookbook#Non2DBlocking |
| 06:34 |
sri |
big ass real world example there |
| 06:34 |
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| 06:34 |
Christian |
morning |
| 06:34 |
* sri |
waves |
| 06:35 |
moritz |
why did I miss those? |
| 06:35 |
* marcus |
nods |
| 06:35 |
sri |
marcus question is a good one though |
| 06:35 |
moritz |
marcus: for example multiplexed requests |
| 06:36 |
marcus |
moritz: "communicates two or more signals over a common channel" ? |
| 06:36 |
marcus |
do you mean parallell requests? |
| 06:36 |
marcus |
-l |
| 06:36 |
moritz |
yes |
| 06:36 |
sri |
i guess the second example is exactly what you want |
| 06:37 |
marcus |
mm |
| 06:39 |
sri |
but it all comes down to those mini examples in Mojo::UserAgent |
| 06:39 |
sri |
(use callbacks and control the ioloop yourself) |
| 06:41 |
moritz |
what happens if I don't control the ioloop myself? |
| 06:42 |
sri |
nothing (literally) |
| 06:42 |
moritz |
so it hangs? |
| 06:42 |
sri |
it won't even start |
| 06:42 |
marcus |
requests doesnt fire |
| 06:43 |
moritz |
and if I don't call IOLoop->stop, the execution doesn't resume after the IOLoop->start call? |
| 06:44 |
sri |
infinite loop |
| 06:44 |
purl |
see infinite regress |
| 06:44 |
sri |
Mojo::IOLoop is a normal event loop |
| 06:45 |
sri |
the whole thing is a bit easier in Mojolicious apps because the http daemon is controlling the event loop for you |
| 06:45 |
sri |
but like marcus said, the tradeoffs are different ones there |
| 06:58 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "@ Rimmer333 Hi, Mojolicious. ;) As well as any Plack-based frameworks. Not to mention the Catalyst." (ru) --su_bzero http://twitter.com/su_bzero/status/55162448281468928 |
| 06:58 |
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| 07:33 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "New blog post, a missing raptor and the #mojolicious user experience, enjoy. ;) http://t.co/4UdDWYb #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/55171179346018304 |
| 07:34 |
sri |
:) |
| 07:34 |
sri |
lots of pretty pictures |
| 07:47 |
marcus |
u can haz retweet |
| 07:48 |
sri |
\o/ |
| 07:48 |
arpadszasz |
nice designs sri++ |
| 07:53 |
sri |
:) |
| 07:56 |
marc |
very nice! |
| 08:05 |
sri |
damn... whats up with reddit again? |
| 08:05 |
sri |
i keep hitting 502 errors when commenting |
| 08:06 |
marcus |
time to switch to HN |
| 08:06 |
marcus |
:) |
| 08:07 |
sri |
dunno, perl posts seem so lost there |
| 08:08 |
marc |
not shiny enough? |
| 08:08 |
marcus |
I think not obscure enough |
| 08:09 |
marc |
most HN stuff these days seems to be "i started a startup.ly -- check it out!" |
| 08:10 |
sri |
haha |
| 08:11 |
marcus |
http://sites.inka.de/bigred/devel/tcp-tcp.html |
| 08:12 |
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| 08:13 |
sri |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXZMZ-XvvzI |
| 08:15 |
marcus |
not enough annotations |
| 08:15 |
stephan48 |
HN? |
| 08:15 |
purl |
HN is Hacker News (http://news.ycombinator.com) |
| 08:15 |
marcus |
btw, google chrome search engine configuration is awesome |
| 08:18 |
marcus |
sri: seems reddit is shitting itself, got a 502 while trying to log in |
| 08:19 |
sri |
reddit is such a big screwup... |
| 08:19 |
marcus |
python ftw? |
| 08:19 |
sri |
don't they have like only one programmer left or so? |
| 08:20 |
marcus |
should have kept the lisp codebase. |
| 08:20 |
marcus |
:) |
| 08:24 |
moritz |
reddit's biggest problem is that the amazon storage backend is unreliable |
| 08:25 |
sri |
that's what they say |
| 08:25 |
moritz |
(at least that's what the reddit and ex-reddit folks say) |
| 08:25 |
sri |
in reality i think it is just lack of money |
| 08:27 |
marcus |
aren't they owned by wired? |
| 08:27 |
sri |
they sold reddit before they even had a strategy for making any money, now nobody cares to find one and the parent company just gives them less and less cash |
| 08:27 |
sri |
i bet it all comes down to lack of motivation |
| 08:28 |
sri |
but somehow all these social news sites are struggling |
| 08:28 |
sri |
slashdot, digg, reddit... all not healthy |
| 08:29 |
stephan48 |
social news are not wanted. |
| 08:29 |
* marcus |
starts an asocial news site |
| 08:29 |
marcus |
fuckyounews.com? |
| 08:29 |
marcus |
damn, taken |
| 08:35 |
moritz |
terrornews.org is free :-) |
| 08:36 |
sri |
http://hackerne.ws/item?id=2410165 # upvote! |
| 08:36 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "A missing raptor and the Mojolicious user experience (Perl): http://bit.ly/fkqzkf" --hnfirehose http://twitter.com/hnfirehose/status/55187140740526080 |
| 08:37 |
sri |
oh, that's convenient |
| 08:55 |
sri |
http://twitter.com/#!/redditstatus # wtf |
| 08:55 |
sri |
march 30 :o |
| 08:58 |
marcus |
lulz |
| 08:58 |
marcus |
https://github.com/DanielWaterworth/raphters :D |
| 08:59 |
sri |
seen it earlier :D |
| 08:59 |
sri |
something like that could actually be fun with Go |
| 09:07 |
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| 09:07 |
GitHub77 |
mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 7935f1a (2 files in 2 dirs): better example - http://bit.ly/fToAgL |
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| 09:56 |
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| 09:56 |
kvorg |
hi guys |
| 09:57 |
kvorg |
i have painted myself in a corner where i need to understand async/nonblocking a bit better, perhaps someone can shed some light |
| 09:57 |
kvorg |
its a simple matter, really, if i knew how |
| 09:58 |
kvorg |
i have a data model which can take a long time to produce results, and has an async/non blocking api |
| 09:58 |
kvorg |
one needs to call a function which will return the data so far or undef when the query is finished |
| 09:59 |
kvorg |
what i need is a hint to plug this in with Mojolicious correcty, so that the IOLoop will call my function periodically and i will be able to call a callback when all the data is collected |
| 09:59 |
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| 10:00 |
kvorg |
sri: btw, i replaced the top-part of the original model with one written with Mojo::Base: it is 50% the size, several times faster and fun to work with. |
| 10:00 |
kvorg |
i love Mojo::Base \o/ |
| 10:03 |
sri |
kvorg: i suppose you would use a recurring timer for that |
| 10:03 |
kvorg |
yes, if i knew how, exactly |
| 10:03 |
sri |
perldoc Mojo::IOLoop |
| 10:04 |
sri |
well, this is about as advanced as it gets |
| 10:04 |
sri |
don't expect any of this to be easy |
| 10:05 |
kvorg |
been there, got a bit confused, and realised it would be difficult, so i wanted to know at least if i am barking up the right tree |
| 10:05 |
sri |
you are |
| 10:05 |
sri |
setting a 0 timer repeatedly should do what you want |
| 10:07 |
kvorg |
hm, what exactly does a 0 timer do? start the function at any available time? |
| 10:07 |
sri |
yes |
| 10:07 |
* kvorg |
is happy |
| 10:08 |
sri |
there is also a more advanced option, but i'm not sure i should tell you |
| 10:08 |
kvorg |
please don't |
| 10:08 |
sri |
:) |
| 10:08 |
marcus |
:D |
| 10:08 |
kvorg |
if i do this right and write a blog entry or something, perhaps you can submit the advanced option |
| 10:09 |
kvorg |
i am quite aware how easy it is to get users to shoot themselves, and then come back complaining to the channel |
| 10:10 |
kvorg |
just one last question: what is then proper way to stop the timer? |
| 10:10 |
kvorg |
something like my $id = $loop->timer(0 => sub {my $self = shift; word; $self->drop($id) if finished}); |
| 10:10 |
kvorg |
or did i just kill my IOLoop? |
| 10:11 |
sri |
timers fire only once |
| 10:11 |
kvorg |
aaah, makes sense |
| 10:11 |
moritz |
you need to install a new one at the end of the callback |
| 10:11 |
sri |
exactly |
| 10:12 |
sri |
the more advanced option would work like your example -.- |
| 10:14 |
kvorg |
i don't mind restarting timers, comsindering the work being done on the backend, that is hardly noticeable |
| 10:20 |
sri |
it's also teh safest option |
| 10:21 |
sri |
if something goes wrong the timer just gets lost |
| 10:22 |
sri |
hmm, at some point we'll have to make people more aware of the async possibilities |
| 10:23 |
sri |
i'm just not sure how to explain it best |
| 10:23 |
sri |
rethinking program flow takes some getting used to |
| 10:23 |
sri |
javascript really has an advantage there -.- |
| 10:28 |
kvorg |
i think a combination of longer explanations (blogs, books) and numerous simple examples is the only way |
| 10:29 |
kvorg |
people feel safer when everything is explained, even thinks that should be obvious and do not belong in the documentation |
| 10:29 |
kvorg |
and then they know where to turn where parroting the examples goes wrong |
| 10:29 |
kvorg |
after many mishaps, things go forward |
| 10:30 |
kvorg |
so i promise to produce something out of this if i get it to work |
| 10:30 |
stephan48 |
what do you use as engine for your blogs btw? |
| 10:41 |
kvorg |
ahh, that is painful. |
| 10:41 |
kvorg |
i was playing with vti's thingy, but it got overcomplicated and it not maitained anymore. |
| 10:41 |
kvorg |
also, i like to write in POD and have some strange extended POD that can do images and sidebars and whatnot |
| 10:42 |
kvorg |
it seems I will be forced to take an old version of Bootylicious, add a renderer and go B-) |
| 10:42 |
kvorg |
i can't abode with php blogs ... |
| 10:45 |
sri |
stephan48: posterous |
| 10:45 |
purl |
i heard posterous was good for low frequent posters. |
| 10:48 |
marc |
posterous is great |
| 10:48 |
marc |
it'd be nice to have better markdown support in the editor though |
| 10:48 |
sri |
kinda tempted to move to tumblr though |
| 10:48 |
marc |
as it stands, i write and preview everthing locally then paste or email |
| 10:48 |
marc |
sri: yeah? |
| 10:48 |
purl |
totally! |
| 10:49 |
sri |
what purl said |
| 10:49 |
marc |
heh. i love posterous' gist integration |
| 10:49 |
marc |
that's why a chose it |
| 10:49 |
marc |
simple and nice for providing inline snippets |
| 10:49 |
sri |
true |
| 10:49 |
marc |
so -- why tumblr? |
| 10:49 |
sri |
everybody is there |
| 10:50 |
sri |
i like the twitter feel of tumblr |
| 10:51 |
marc |
i see |
| 10:52 |
sri |
i guess i would really miss gists though :/ |
| 10:52 |
marc |
i'd imagine there are similar solutions for other platforms |
| 10:53 |
marc |
or if you have full control over the template, you could include one of the javascript highlighters |
| 11:06 |
kvorg |
hmm, but us retentive types need to run our own solution on our own server 0_o |
| 11:07 |
kvorg |
also , i still think in time Mojolicious should have a complete stack of easy to use and pluggable example|reusable apps for blogs, news, mailinglists (though) VC, galleries etc. |
| 11:07 |
kvorg |
that would be a nice pool of demos and building bricks for bigger sites |
| 11:07 |
kvorg |
so when someone finds themselves writing one of those, they should think about reusability |
| 11:07 |
sri |
i think you would need a higher level framework for that |
| 11:08 |
sri |
something like drupal built on mojolicious |
| 11:08 |
kvorg |
i think mojolicious would be a nice framework to build somethink like that |
| 11:08 |
sri |
especially with the upcoming pure perl mongodb driver |
| 11:08 |
kvorg |
:-D |
| 11:09 |
marc |
kvorg: well, i can point my domain to posterous; good enough for me |
| 11:09 |
marc |
(actually, a subdomain) |
| 11:09 |
kvorg |
the thing is, all those things are really interesting when they are reusable in the sense that when you are building a site that does specific things, it is easy to add needed components |
| 11:09 |
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| 11:10 |
kvorg |
but a copule of glue apis would be needed also, auth/autz etc. |
| 11:13 |
sri |
you want a basic cms as foundation |
| 11:13 |
* kvorg |
nods vigorously. |
| 11:14 |
kvorg |
but you want to be able to use the same functionality i.e. for comments on pages, blog posts, images and news items |
| 11:14 |
kvorg |
and you want to be able to treat galleries as asset collections for images in other components etc. |
| 11:16 |
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sri |
hmm |
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| 14:42 |
sri |
http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/povodokus/ # lol |
| 14:46 |
Christian |
:D |
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| 14:51 |
Christian |
nice evening to you all |
| 14:52 |
* sri |
waves |
| 14:55 |
* tempire |
WAVES VIGOROUSLY, WHILE JUMPING UP AND DOWN AND UP AND DOWN AND UP AND DOWN |
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| 15:17 |
sri |
\o |
| 15:17 |
sri |
o/ |
| 15:17 |
sri |
\o/ |
| 15:20 |
marc |
ha ha |
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| 16:07 |
janus |
Mojo::UserAgent seems to have issues in detect_proxy() -- if i setup the proxies manually it works |
| 16:08 |
janus |
dumping after detect shows that the leading http:// is missing |
| 16:09 |
sri |
bad env var? |
| 16:09 |
janus |
defined bad - i've used the same content |
| 16:09 |
janus |
s,ed,e, |
| 16:09 |
sri |
bad = without leading http:// |
| 16:10 |
janus |
no, its correct and otherwise working with other tools |
| 16:10 |
sri |
well, there are good tests, so i'm quite confident detection works |
| 16:12 |
janus |
will investigate later - first need to get the job done :) |
| 16:13 |
sri |
https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/t/mojo/user_agent.t#L26 |
| 16:14 |
janus |
argh, stupid op - sorry for the noise |
| 16:14 |
sri |
:) |
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perlrocks |
Twitter: ""Now Pearl is a framework of frameworks - Mojolicious. It's so cool that Rails sucks nerve in hand ..." - Http://bit.ly/fwrNoj" (ru) --koorchik http://twitter.com/koorchik/status/55305998092603393 |
| 16:30 |
sri |
heh, sounds almost japanese :) |
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perlrocks |
Twitter: "@ Fuksito Mojolicious Try and test your faith;)" (ru) --koorchik http://twitter.com/koorchik/status/55321490333249537 |
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perlrocks |
Twitter: "@ @ Fuksito koorchik perldoc Mojolicious:: Lite" (ca) --antonfin http://twitter.com/antonfin/status/55325563757408256 |
| 17:48 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "@ Fuksito @ koorchik you have not understood in the Mojo can not do that, but the syntax of perl to do this allows" (ru) --antonfin http://twitter.com/antonfin/status/55325938501697536 |
| 17:55 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "@ Fuksito on Rowthorn # mojolicious-variant: $ r-> get ('/ bye') -> to ('foo # bye');" (ru) --ykorshak http://twitter.com/ykorshak/status/55327671579705344 |
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perlrocks |
Twitter: "@ Fuksito's usual syntax Mojolicious - $ r-> get ('/ bye') -> to ('foo # bye');" (ru) --koorchik http://twitter.com/koorchik/status/55335552756613120 |
| 18:36 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "@ Fuksito Mojolicious has conceptual integrity, harmonious and easy. And at the same time - no magic! :)" (ru) --koorchik http://twitter.com/koorchik/status/55337955128127488 |
| 18:38 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "@ Fuksito community Mojolicious now the second largest after the Catalyst, and this is just a few months after the stable release:)" (ru) --koorchik http://twitter.com/koorchik/status/55338428300148736 |
| 19:01 |
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| 19:08 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "@ Antonfin Note that the "little docks" is already in the past. Now Mojolicious has very good documentation, not for nothing did they grant received:)" (ru) --koorchik http://twitter.com/koorchik/status/55346170154852353 |
| 19:12 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "@ Fuksito Ease framework. Mojolicious not fall on you with all my weight, when you need to do something non-standard:)" (ru) --koorchik http://twitter.com/koorchik/status/55347053106184192 |
| 19:15 |
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| 19:19 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "@ Fuksito Neuzhto application of ROR eshte proshte? ;) Use Mojolicious:: Lite; get "/" => sub {shift-> render_text ("Hello, Fuskito")}; app-> start;" (bg) --koorchik http://twitter.com/koorchik/status/55348858217177088 |
| 19:21 |
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| 19:30 |
alnewkirk-away |
sri, thanx |
| 19:58 |
sri |
heh, what did i do? :) |
| 20:01 |
alnewkirk-away |
created Mojo silly :) |
| 20:01 |
sri |
\o/ |
| 20:01 |
alnewkirk-away |
.so available for registration |
| 20:01 |
alnewkirk-away |
idontthink.so |
| 20:05 |
sri |
neat |
| 20:07 |
sri |
already taken ;p |
| 20:08 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "@ Fuksito I understand that it's like to go with Dancer in the Mojolicious:). That is sinatra - just a single framework." (ru) --koorchik http://twitter.com/koorchik/status/55361145401384961 |
| 20:17 |
alnewkirk-away |
^^ huh? |
| 20:19 |
sri |
russian comes about as bad out of google translate as japanese |
| 20:29 |
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| 20:34 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "@ Fuksito If not Mojolicious, then I probably would have migrated to the rails. I think that within a year Mojolicious will go level with ROR:)" (ru) --koorchik http://twitter.com/koorchik/status/55367801543733249 |
| 20:35 |
sri |
that's the plan :) |
| 20:36 |
sri |
i'd like to have the first perl framework to get full stack right |
| 20:36 |
alnewkirk-away |
sri, if so, i want in on the DBI team |
| 20:37 |
sri |
i'm going mongodb exclusive first |
| 20:37 |
sri |
but the higher level pieces should work for all |
| 20:39 |
alnewkirk-away |
i want in |
| 20:40 |
sri |
sure, the process will be gradually after the basic mongodb driver is done |
| 20:41 |
alnewkirk-away |
mongodb is awesome |
| 20:41 |
sri |
ideally all higher level features can be developed as separate plugins |
| 20:41 |
alnewkirk-away |
memory is the nw disk |
| 20:41 |
alnewkirk-away |
higher level features? |
| 20:42 |
sri |
first plugin is pure perl driver, next one will be an orm on top |
| 20:42 |
sri |
validation could be a third |
| 20:42 |
sri |
and so on |
| 20:42 |
alnewkirk-away |
i like |
| 20:44 |
alnewkirk-away |
i plan to play with Mojolicious::Plugin::Authentication very soon |
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alnewkirk-away |
sri, have you seen ORMesque? |
| 21:27 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "Trying out the examples in http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojolicious/Guides/Growing #perl #mojolicious" --mrmuskrat http://twitter.com/mrmuskrat/status/55381173324627968 |
| 21:28 |
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| 21:36 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "Had to alter one of the commands: ./myapp.pl get -v /?user=sri&pass=secr3t didn't work until I quoted the URL. #mojolicious #perl" --mrmuskrat http://twitter.com/mrmuskrat/status/55383401481506816 |
| 22:03 |
perlrocks |
Twitter: "Finished growing guide. Nice flow. Found myself running tests after each change which pointed out my typos. @kraih ++ #mojolicious #perl" --mrmuskrat http://twitter.com/mrmuskrat/status/55390179158003712 |
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