Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-04-06

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04:00 * tempire looks around
04:01 * tempire sprinkles glitter in the channel
04:01 * tempire giggles
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05:35 sri \o
05:35 sri o\
05:36 sri \o/
05:36 sri ouch!
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05:39 GitHub180 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * d98a634 (1 files in 1 dirs): fixed typo - http://bit.ly/dJq412
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05:51 perlrocks Twitter: "Web frameworks for Perl http://is.gd/qi0lRZ in the comments people are burning! # Perl # rails # django # dancer # mojolicious # catalyst" (ru) --xomaa http://twitter.com/xomaa/status/55507778873196544
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06:54 Christian good morning
06:54 purl For you maybe.
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07:12 * sri waves
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07:51 yakudzo Hello ppl
08:05 marcus http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&p​rev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&e​otf=1&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcom​munity.livejournal.com%2Fru_perl%2F388736.html fun times
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08:17 sri marcus: unable to open....
08:18 yakudzo sri, livejournal is under DDOS attack second day
08:18 sri :S
08:19 sri ok, now stop the ddos for a second so i can read!
08:19 yakudzo ((:
08:20 sri thanks!
08:24 yakudzo ppl what is wrong here : http://pastebin.com/tLL0Nrzy ??
08:24 yakudzo cant understand why its not working ):
08:25 sri En.pm
08:25 sri needs to be lowercase
08:26 sri that would be the only obvious one i see
08:26 sri if that doesn't help just take a look at the unit test
08:30 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/105 # can someone confirm any of this?
08:30 yakudzo did not helped. Will try to create lite app for test
08:30 sri please run make test with TEST_ONLINE=1
08:31 sri ideally on centos too
08:36 yakudzo sri http://pastebin.com/AMC4mz23
08:36 yakudzo perl 5.10 ubuntu
08:36 sri ok, those two are harmless
08:37 sri the result can be a bit random at times
08:37 sri thanks, now we know it is not a linux bug
08:38 sri would like to see a test run on centos5 though
08:38 yakudzo ((:
08:43 yko ouch. sri, in I18n default language is dorced to be AUTO => 1. Is it true or i missunderstanding something?
08:45 yko *forced
08:45 sri yko: what's wrong with that?
08:48 yko hmm. first thing is that there's no single word about it in pod :)
08:48 yko second - sometimes you need to localize block of text. sometimes it's not very small. I don't think it's useful to use 1000 characters of text as a key
08:49 sri first sentence i agree, second i don't understand
08:50 sri i'm open for suggestions though
08:50 yko imagine you have few block of text. like 'quick brown fox' x 100 long
08:50 yko and you need to make them localized
08:50 yko so you have to define in your App::I18n::de something like...
08:51 yko %Lexicon = ('quick brown fox' x 100 => 'de version', ...)
08:51 sri ah
08:52 yko yes, sorry, i'm not always very clear
08:52 sri you mean BROWN_FOXES kinda placeholders
08:52 moritz and update the long text in both location as soon as you change the English version
08:52 yko i'd like 'quick fox', but you get me right :)
08:52 yko moritz++
08:52 yko and as soon as you have 100 locales...
08:52 stephan48 ye
08:52 sri i'm open for suggestions
08:52 stephan48 it gets ugly...
08:53 stephan48 yko: or hundreds of such entries...
08:53 * sri is not interested in problems, just solutions! ;)
08:53 stephan48 :)
08:53 stephan48 so for you its not a problem until you got a patch to fix it?
08:53 yko i always need to know if you are considering problem as problem before seek for solution :)
08:53 sri !
08:54 sri yko: it's usually easier to make that decision based on a solution -.-
08:54 DaTa sri: http://pastebin.com/6uEbyadS
08:54 yko aha, and throw my solution away, ye :)
08:55 sri DaTa: thanks, but is that ubuntu again?
08:55 stephan48 the only way i see here would be f.e. to have a en and de dict and then just use tokens as key f.e. some_long_text_about_patches in both
08:55 DaTa yes, ubuntu, but with a perl built myself
08:57 sri yko: problem is we can't break current apps
08:58 yko i think i have solution, give me some time
08:58 sri sure
08:58 sri just don't open an issue for it!
08:58 yko when you was afraid to break existing appls? :p
08:58 yko ahahaha :D
08:58 sri that doesn't end well -.-
08:58 yko i was missing you those time i was offline
08:59 * sri was asking where yko could be every day :,(
08:59 stephan48 so there would be again a need to make new i18n class if we break old due to changes?
08:59 stephan48 so we dont break old aps?
09:00 sri we can't break backcompat
09:01 stephan48 yes so what would be best way to solve such stuff?
09:01 sri i think yko has a plan
09:01 sri guess i'll document the current behavior
09:05 yko let's better write tests for current behavior and for new behavior
09:05 yko they can be compat each other
09:05 yko that will make old apps to be compatible and allow us to define short-keys and full-written default lexicon
09:05 yko solution is very easy - just to check if there's $namespace::$default::Lexicon already defined. if no - set it to auto.
09:05 Foxcool fox fox...
09:06 sri yko: yea, make a new test for new behavior
09:06 Foxcool highlighters
09:06 Foxcool (:
09:06 sri solution sounds good btw
09:07 * sri likes dwim
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09:18 GitHub116 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 566ec43 (1 files in 1 dirs): i18n pod tweaks - http://bit.ly/grQcMx
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09:19 sri hope that makes things more transparent
09:20 sri yko now just needs to add a phrase saying that the default language class generation is dwim
09:20 yko argh...
09:21 sri just rebase ;p
09:21 yko already :)
09:21 * sri knew yko is a git ninja
09:22 sri "Default language, defaults to C<en>." sounds a bit stupid though :S
09:25 yko wait. one question. i18n assume that all lexicon packages already loaded, it doesn't load anything by itself, right?
09:25 sri that's not true
09:26 sri Locale::Maketext does the loading on demand
09:26 yko oh... damn.
09:27 sri yea, you'll have to be a little more clever testing if the class exists
09:29 yko hmm. don't you think unless (eval "require $package") { .. } would be wenough?
09:29 sri you have to cover two cases i think
09:30 sri inline language class and file
09:30 sri might be enough
09:31 yko i already done that
09:31 moritz sri: "Default language (C<en> unless overridden)"
09:31 sri as long as the basic cases work it's fine imo, can always fix if test cases show up
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09:32 sri moritz: "..., defaults to ..." is convention so far though
09:33 moritz sri: then stick to it, even if it sounds like crap :-)
09:33 sri ;p
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09:50 yko hmm, sri: is there any reason to use 'use Mojo::Base "$namespace"' in lexicons?
09:50 sri why not?
09:50 yko it forces you to use BEGIN { plugin 'l18n' } trick in test then
09:50 yko (and prevents me from normal testing :)
09:51 sri hmm
09:51 yko with use base $namespace you can just define lexocon packages before package main; normally
09:51 yko *lexicon
09:52 yko i18n test now a bit tricky with BEGIN stuff and two package main, it can be simplier a bit
09:52 sri do you know what use base does differently?
09:53 sri maybe a small Mojo::Base tweak is in order
09:53 sri i might have known this once... but can't remember :/
09:55 yko tbh - no. i don't bother it. but fact is - with base you don't need begin trick
09:55 yko ok, ill prepare changes and show you. and then youll deny it :)
09:57 moritz parent.pm has this funny line:
09:57 moritz @{"$inheritor\::ISA"} = (@{"$inheritor\::ISA"} , @_);
09:58 moritz instead of pushing
09:58 moritz claiming it's more efficient
09:59 moritz (unrelated to the actual question, sorry)
10:00 yko most funniest line in parent.pm is 'all your bases now belongs to us!'
10:02 yko sri: changes could look like that: http://bit.ly/hxJwAa
10:03 moritz speaking of which... it's funny that 1 as a literal doesn't warn about "Useless use of a constant (1) in void context"
10:04 moritz neither does 0
10:04 moritz but all others seem to
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10:07 sri yko: changes look good, except for thw missing futurama quote!
10:08 yko -_-
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10:09 yko i think my next patch will contain some quotes from "Ну-погоди!" or "Тайна Третьей планеты" :p
10:10 * sri pushes yko back into the aligator pit
10:10 yko or maybe even 'Ежик в тумане' hardcore stuff :D
10:10 * yko giggles from dark corner
10:11 sri hmm, another mailing list post i don't understand at all :S
10:15 sri yko: shortkeys seems like the wrong word
10:15 moritz custom keys?
10:15 sri shortcuts is what he meant i think
10:15 * moritz has no experience with i18n whatsoever
10:15 yko i think you are right. my engllish is far from being perfect
10:16 sri maybe even placeholders
10:16 yko i like shortcuts more. placeholders feels more like template-related stuff
10:16 sri yko: should i fix the patch or are you on it already?
10:17 yko but feel free to change anything... i need to walk with my dog
10:17 yko or i can change it in half hour
10:17 sri in soviet russia dog walks you!
10:18 sri i'll do it then
10:18 yko if you own American Staffordshire terrier, than it's true
10:19 sri WE NEED A NEW FUTURAMA QUOTE!
10:19 sri drop whatever you are doing and help searching!
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10:20 yakudzo Planet Express - Our crew is replaceable, your package isn't.
10:22 sri :D
10:22 sri yakudzo++
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10:35 GitHub54 mojo: master Yaroslav Korshak * 097b0af (2 files in 2 dirs): allow shortkeys in i18n plugin
10:35 GitHub54 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * c36b20b (3 files in 3 dirs): cleanup
10:35 GitHub54 mojo: master commits 566ec43...c36b20b - http://bit.ly/dEnXql
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10:37 sri use base seems not to check if a class actually exists
10:37 sri in this case it's a good thing
10:38 sri not sure if it is good in general
10:41 perlrocks Twitter: "Hope this little change makes i18n in #mojolicious more user friendly. http://t.co/5RtHeiG #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/55580856491839488
10:42 sri yakudzo: i guess you shouldn't have problems with it anymore
10:42 yakudzo yes (:
10:43 yakudzo many thanks (:
10:43 sri hmmmm
10:43 * sri is confused
10:43 sri perl -e 'package Foo::Bar; use base "Foo";'
10:44 sri perl -e 'package Foo::Bar; use base "Bar";'
10:44 sri try both
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10:49 GitHub28 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 5272de8 (1 files in 1 dirs): fix Mojo::Base pod - http://bit.ly/ejD9My
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10:50 sri Mojo::Base behaves more like parent than base
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11:02 marcus fish are friends, not food!
11:03 yko who told you that 'friend' and 'food' can not be the same?
11:04 sri meow?
11:04 purl not so funny meow, is it..
11:10 marcus yko: you eat your friends? :o
11:11 marcus no wonder vti defected
11:15 * sri bites marcus
11:17 * marcus puts a muzzle on sri.
11:17 * sri rolls around on the channel floor
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11:59 sri http://everyday-carry.com # kinda cool
12:01 * sri really wants a skeletool now
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12:38 sri \o\
12:38 sri /o/
12:38 sri \o\
12:38 sri /o/
12:41 moritz _o_
12:41 sri /o\
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12:42 sri oh, akron is from bielefeld
12:43 sri i lived there for a few years
12:43 Akron He is!
12:43 sri been to bielefeld.pm?
12:43 Akron Regularly since ~ 1 year.
12:44 Akron Or even longer ... don't know. Christian and Jürgen are still coming.
12:47 moritz Jürgen Christoffel?
12:48 Akron moritz: No - Taulmarill.
12:48 Akron moritz: (That's his nick, not his family name. ;))
12:48 moritz Akron: thanks, I've seen that nick too
12:51 Akron sri: Any chance to see you someday at bielefeld.pm again?
12:51 sri Akron: rather unlikely
12:52 Akron sri: :(
12:52 sri say hi to christian and juergen from the though :)
12:52 sri *me
12:54 Akron sri: I'm pleased to do so.
12:59 elb0w someone give me a good cs related book to read. Have a 6hr flight I need to get something for
13:04 sri you could read RFCs ;p
13:04 moritz elb0w: "Higher Order Perl" if you don't know it yet
13:04 sri that's a good one
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13:05 sri i suppose any o'reilly cookbook could be fun on a flight too
13:05 moritz or just brush up your Knuth if you're looking for hardcore CS :-)
13:06 * sri looks at his to-read stack
13:06 sri oh, Cocoa and Objective-C Up and Running... i really should start with that one
13:07 sri a new html5 book could be fun too, unless you follow the specs
13:08 sri HTML5 Up and Running or HTML5 For Web Designers
13:08 * moritz has "Computer vision with OpenCV" and "Winning Ways for your Mathematical Plays" on his to-read stack
13:09 sri the MongoDB books are not bad either
13:09 sri if you're interested in bleeding edge that is
13:10 sri high performance web sites and even faster web sites could be fun too
13:11 sri or high perfromance javascript
13:11 sri another one from my todo stack is restful web services cookbook
13:13 sri elb0w: you might want to be a bit more specific :D
13:15 elb0w no that sounds good
13:17 moritz which one of the dozen suggestions? :-)
13:18 marcus he's getting all of them
13:18 marcus :)
13:18 * moritz should have posted some amazon affiliate links :-)
13:20 sri :)
13:24 sri i guess peepcode screencasts could also be fun for a flight
13:31 elb0w Loading up my kindle
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14:06 * marcus is filling his ipad with children's videos and games
14:06 marcus for a 6 hour flight on frida
14:06 marcus -y
14:07 * yko hate flying
14:08 elb0w sri, peepcode is for ruby?
14:08 sri not only
14:08 purl rumour has it not only is Device::SerialPort a port of Win32::SerialPort, they cut and pasted the POD as well
14:08 sri the git screencast for example is great
14:08 elb0w theese are all videos?
14:09 sri ye
14:09 sri take a look at the preview
14:09 sri jquery ones and raphael.js are cool too
14:09 elb0w can you download these?
14:09 elb0w I want to get http://peepcode.com/products/fun​ctional-programming-with-clojure
14:09 sri for $12
14:10 elb0w ah I see
14:10 elb0w free preview
14:10 elb0w :)
14:10 sri quality is great
14:10 elb0w be nice on ipad
14:11 elb0w guys voice drives me nuts
14:11 sri i guess you can also pirate them by now, hurts such a small company a lot though
14:11 elb0w I dont mind paying for good products
14:11 elb0w nice I like this
14:12 elb0w wish they had more stuff
14:12 sri yea
14:12 elb0w have no desire to learn ruby
14:13 sri not that much to learn if you're coming from perl
14:13 elb0w I dunno between perl and python I just feel like I would never use it
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15:27 Christian cu all
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16:08 GitHub133 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * c2f024d (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed Mojo::IOLoop resolver bug - http://bit.ly/i5LBYm
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16:12 memowe Hey! :)
16:12 yko sri: default application useragent has not-singleton ioloop intentional?
16:12 memowe I got pretty scary stuff: https://gist.github.com/905941
16:13 memowe Mojo::Loader->new returns Mojolicious::Lite instances!?
16:14 * yko set fire to memowe's bootlaces
16:14 yko heretic!
16:15 memowe yko: bootlaces on fire? That's scary too.
16:15 memowe What am I doing wrong here?
16:17 memowe yko: could you try to reproduce that for me?
16:18 yko i would say that yoyu don't need to cal new on Loader
16:19 memowe my $loader = Mojo::Loader->new;
16:19 memowe from the docs.
16:19 yko everybody lies :) i'm busy right now, will try to reproduce in few minutes, ok?
16:20 memowe no problem, thank you
16:20 yko damn.... something went wrong -_-
16:22 sri perl -Mojo -MMojo::Loader -e 'print Mojo::Loader->new'
16:23 sri whatever is going on in your app it is rather crazy
16:24 memowe sri: there are only these 16 lines.
16:25 memowe If I load the loader before app->start, the strange behaviour is gone.
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16:26 yko memowe: so do it that way! :D
16:26 sri perl -Mojo -e'package Foo; use Mojo::Base -base; use Mojo::Loader; has "bar" => sub { Mojo::Loader->new->search("Mojo") }; package main; a("/" => sub { shift->render(text => Foo->new->bar->[0]) })->start' get /
16:26 sri just tried to replicate it with a oneliner -.-
16:27 memowe sri: I couldn't reproduce it with only one file :/
16:29 sri whenever i start hacking on mongodb people keep popping up with bugs -.-
16:30 sri at least this one is crazy :)
16:30 yko ehehe
16:30 yko sri: what are you hacking about? could you tell a word?
16:32 mephist
16:32 sri still the pure perl mongodb driver, need to finally finish and release it
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16:32 yko oh, so you plan to release own mongodb driver? cool
16:33 sri were you away so long? :o
16:34 yko oh... i was ill, than i was busy so much so even had no time to sleep or drink a bottle of beer
16:34 sri i've been ranting about the wire protocol all the time :)
16:34 yko i've read your tweets :)
16:34 sri the pure perl bson implementation is about 800 lines of code
16:35 yko than i was resting after all that hell. and all that time i had to heal my teeth which makes me absolutely unsociable
16:36 yko wow. i was looking at bson time ago thinking about mongo and it wasn't looks like too complicated. but i believe you
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16:40 sri it's actually quite simple
16:40 sri everything is built on a few primitive data types
16:41 sri but there are *A LOT* of abstract types
16:50 sri memowe: can't replicate
16:50 sri it doesn't happen here
16:50 sri memowe: which version?
16:50 purl somebody said which version was that?
16:50 memowe damn
16:50 memowe last from github
16:50 sri hmm
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17:06 Akron memowe: I can replicate. With Mojolicious last version on CPAN 1.15.
17:07 memowe Thanks Akron...
17:07 Akron Windows7 64bit. Maybe that helps.
17:07 memowe Sorry sri. But I'm proud of the "crazy".
17:08 memowe sri: if there's anything I can do to help...
17:08 sri if you can turn it into a unit test i'll try to fix it
17:09 sri really curious how something like that could happen
17:10 memowe I think that could be hard. It needs a running daemon.
17:10 memowe Maybe with some forking action. :)
17:11 sri all tests use a running daemon
17:11 memowe Ah, ok
17:12 sri even if you do ./myapp.pl get / there will be a daemon started
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17:41 memowe sri: it happens only with --reload enabled.
17:41 memowe Trying to write a test for that...
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17:51 sri memowe: oh.... that will be tricky
17:51 sri maybe even a "won't fix" :S
17:51 memowe sri: got a failing test for it.
17:52 memowe But I needed to fork to let it fail.
17:52 memowe I'll upload it as a gist.
17:52 sri fork is a no go
17:53 memowe OK, but it fails:
17:53 memowe ok 1 - request ok
17:53 memowe not ok 2 - got a Mojo::Loader
17:53 memowe #   Failed test 'got a Mojo::Loader'
17:53 memowe #   at test.t line 34.
17:53 memowe #                   'Mojolicious::Lite'
17:53 memowe #     doesn't match '(?-xism:^Mojo::Loader)'
17:53 memowe # Looks like you failed 1 test of 2.
17:53 memowe was kicked by sri: memowe
17:53 memowe joined #mojo
17:53 memowe kicked for seven lines? come on...
17:53 memowe ok.
17:54 memowe do you want to see the test?
17:54 sri it's automatic at 3 lines i think
17:54 memowe oh, ok
17:54 sri pasting into the channel is a huge red flag
17:54 memowe the important part is this: (2 lines)
17:54 memowe #                   'Mojolicious::Lite'
17:54 memowe #     doesn't match '(?-xism:^Mojo::Loader)'
17:54 sri ok, please stop
17:55 sri pating into the channel is just rude
17:55 memowe sorry
17:55 sri put it into a gist
17:58 memowe https://gist.github.com/906153
17:59 memowe Hm. Is there a way to activate the reload mode without calling app->start?
18:06 sri $ENV{MOJO_RELOAD} = 1;
18:08 sri oooh, i'm starting to get an idea
18:10 sri it will be related to Mojolicious::Lite::import
18:11 sri s/will/has to/
18:12 sri memowe: this could really be a "won't fix"
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18:44 sri memowe: i have a fix
18:44 sri but i doubt this can be tested in a portable way
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18:45 GitHub121 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 5c4f1d5 (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed small reload bug - http://bit.ly/h5r9Vm
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18:47 sri it really was quite crazy
18:48 sri the require was loading myapp.pl into Mojo::Loader and in turn imported Mojolicious::Lite into Mojo::Loader from myapp.pl
18:49 sri this could actually have fixed more bugs
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19:17 Pilate is there any reason that all of the mojo examples would immediately exit? i cant get any of them to do anything
19:22 sri that would be very strange
19:23 sri how did you start them?
19:23 Pilate perl whatever.pl
19:24 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc​?Mojolicious/Lite#Commands
19:24 sri you should go through the tutorial
19:25 Pilate ah... cool i guess... you dont think special instructions to run would be worth mentioning on the front page?
19:25 Pilate under the sequence of examples?
19:25 sri (hint: you want perl whatever.pl daemon)
19:25 sri those examples are not meant to be tried
19:26 sri some are really complicated and totally wrong for getting started
19:26 Pilate that doesnt seem like a really lazy/ignorant idea?
19:26 sri the documentation link at the bottom is there for exactly that reason
19:26 Pilate look you can do things just like this! except not like this
19:27 sri i don't think so
19:27 sri the frontpage gives you an overview of what you'll be able to do once you finish the documentation
19:27 Pilate just... wow, alrighty then, thanks
19:30 sri it's really marketing vs documentation
19:30 sri the frontpage is pure marketing
19:34 Pilate out of curiosity, how does that make it OK for the 'examples' not to be functional? im just completely baffled at that line of thought... ive never seen any library or language do something so worthless
19:34 Pilate it couldnt take more than 4-5 lines per example to make them actually work
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19:35 sri to be fair, the code actually does work
19:35 sri it gives you a command overview
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19:59 GitHub191 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 6fd6cee (2 files in 2 dirs): example tweaks - https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/6f​d6cee17ebbfd728dbd04bbf4923f090d0a7bfd
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19:59 sri Pilate: i'm going to try it though :)
20:00 sri can always remove it again if too many people shoot themselves
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20:14 perlrocks Twitter: "Ran my first baby #Mojolicious app 25 min ago. Did it to see how quickly I could rewrite an existing app. Reading docs + writing it = 5 hrs." --mrmuskrat http://twitter.com/mrmuskra​t/status/55725133201014784
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20:19 GitHub24 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * a9ec6cf (5 files in 4 dirs): friendlier default listen value - http://bit.ly/gGjmrK
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20:24 Pilate wow, thanks a lot sri :D
20:33 sri :)
20:34 marcus a friend in need's a friend in deed / a friend with weed is better
20:35 marcus A friend with breasts and all the rest, / A friend who's dressed in leather.
20:36 sri \o/
20:51 memowe sri: thanks for the reload fix! Great!
20:52 sri memowe: thanks for being persistent :)
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22:03 yko anyone already did emailing via Mojo::Content::Single?
22:12 sri yko: don't think so, should be possible though
22:12 sri or at least easily patchable
22:13 yko i remember you were thinking about that loud
22:13 sri yea, not investigated though
22:13 yko anyway thanks
22:26 perlrocks Twitter: "The new project I started today is written in the Mojolicious perl framework. I like the all-in-one solution." --ollej http://twitter.com/ollej/status/55758299538272256
22:31 perlrocks Twitter: "The Mojolicious bot checks for tweets?\r\nheh" --sc2time http://twitter.com/sc2time​/status/55759530595860480
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