Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-04-29

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Time Nick Message
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00:56 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious in the cloud: Hello DotCloud! - Sebastian Riedel about Perl and the Web http://bit.ly/lvcadV" (ja) --wPerlnews http://twitter.com/wPerlnew​s/status/63768473561604097
01:00 tempire sri
01:00 tempire You have a typo in your dotcloud blog entry
01:00 tempire "maybe i get to write about them next time."
01:00 tempire makes you sound like a foreigner
01:01 tempire without the fancy guitars
01:01 PerlNinja I see no typo there?
01:02 tempire Maybe typo is the wrong word.
01:02 tempire incorrect english
01:02 tempire Maybe I'll get to...
01:02 tempire or "Maybe I will get to..."
01:02 PerlNinja hmm
01:02 PerlNinja I dunno, I'd write it the same actually
01:02 PerlNinja then again I'm an evil european too :D
01:02 tempire You can.  But it would be incorrect :)
01:03 PerlNinja probably so, but most native speakers will say it like "maybe i get to <x>"
01:03 PerlNinja maybe i get to go home
01:04 PerlNinja usually americans that do that... >.>
01:04 PerlNinja <.<
01:04 tempire That's a different tense.
01:04 tempire Describing the state of something now.
01:04 PerlNinja maybe i get to go home next time
01:04 PerlNinja meh
01:05 PerlNinja I'm too old to learn new language tricks :P already got 6 of them in my head
01:05 tempire dotcloud support looks great
01:05 * tempire waits for beta account
01:05 PerlNinja it does look pretty damn good actually
01:05 PerlNinja the only thing I'm missing is mongodb
01:06 PerlNinja if they get that going, I think I can get my partner to move our junk there, cos right now we're on a bunch of linodes, price wise it'd end up similar but the whole "no need to wrangle installs" is like... woo
01:12 crab tempire: "maybe i get to write about them next time" is perfectly correct.
01:12 crab yes, it sounds a little odd, but it's fine.
01:14 crab actually, it sounds more than only a little odd.
01:14 crab installing ubuntu from my usb stick made it hot.
01:17 PerlNinja ubuntu is hot... :D
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02:13 tempire crab: "maybe I get to"  and "next time" are two different tenses.
02:13 tempire You could say them separately
02:13 tempire but together, you need a modifier to make "get" match "next time"
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02:21 sri tempire: i has fixed!
02:21 sri and i is foreigner!
02:27 crab tempire: oh, i see. sorry, i didn't understand what it was you were objecting to. you're right.
02:27 sri btw. dotcloud has mongodb in beta
02:27 crab i'm afraid my eyes stopped paying attention after going past "i get to"
02:28 sri in fact, dotcloud has pretty muc every nosql database i beta
02:28 sri they enable it for you after support requests or so
02:28 sri even riak
02:31 sri marcus: those windows test fails have been fixed already
02:32 sri still looking for a volunteer to fix the other issue though
02:32 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/127
02:32 sri that one is a bit random, and only shows up on some platforms
02:32 sri none of my platforms sadly :/
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04:17 perlrocks Twitter: "Looks like there are lots of #mojolicious and #perl people waiting for #dotcloud invites, many to try cloud hosting for the very first time." --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/63819254037876738
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04:26 perlrocks Twitter: "Tadam! My debut on cpan. http://t.co/yfAKt6F # mojolicious & # redis to all for free:)" (ru) --meettya http://twitter.com/meettya​/status/63821448086695936
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06:04 crab can i just make a controller write stuff to stdout? or rather how should i cope with generating, say, a spreadsheet of some sort?
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06:07 sri that question needs more context
06:14 crab sri: i want to send an application/xls (or whatever the type is) response, and i have a module that can write the data to stdout.
06:16 crab though, i see now i could make it return a string and use render_data.
06:17 sri don't ever use stdout
06:18 sri it only works for cgi, and even then it totally screws up mojolicious
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06:20 crab okie doke.
06:20 sri both stdin and stdout are off limits
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06:28 Christian morning
06:37 marcus MORNING
06:40 crab i'm still not quite sure i understand nested routes and waypoints
06:41 crab s/and/and\/or/
06:42 sri most people don't need waypoints
06:42 sri but some people seem to love them very much
06:43 marcus oh boy
06:43 crab if i have /bids and various /bids/blah, and i do $a = $r->route('/bids')->to... and $a->route('/blah')->to..., it should work as i expect, right?
06:44 crab if $a is instead $r->waypoint('/bids')->to..., then will it be called even for requests to /bids/blah? is that what it means about not being an endpoint?
06:44 sri no
06:44 crab i wish i could remember that example someone here gave of a correct use of a waypoint.
06:44 sri normal nested routes can only match if they are an endpoint
06:45 sri as in the last route in the tree structure
06:45 sri if a route has children it can't match on its own
06:45 sri waypoint is the exception, it allows routes with children to match
06:45 crab so to handle /bids with children /bids/blah, i *need* a waypoint?
06:46 sri ye
06:46 crab but if i made them non-child routes, then it would work fine. ok, now i get it.
06:46 crab i am slowly getting rid of my wildcard routes.
06:47 crab (because they became complex enough and now i never generate 404s any more :-)
06:47 sri client demands more raptors?
06:48 crab they haven't yet. i think they're too nervous to ask me "wtf was that thing?" :-)
06:50 Christian is there an example for children routes?
06:50 Christian not these: http://www.mojolicious.org/perl​doc?Mojolicious/Routes#children
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06:52 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojoli​cious/Guides/Routing#Nested_Routes
06:52 Christian thx
06:53 sri people seem to have a hard time understanding what endpoint means
06:53 sri maybe i should explain it with children instead
06:55 Christian try it ;)
06:56 Christian i think the explanation to crab was nice
06:57 Christian s/to/for/
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07:02 GitHub134 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 5d659d1 (1 files in 1 dirs): improved explanations for nested routes and waypoints - http://bit.ly/iAUIiE
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07:03 sri hope that's better
07:03 crab yes, it is.
07:03 sri \o/
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07:04 crab i seem to have understood endpoint correctly (i.e. leaf node, not interior node), but misunderstood how they were handled somehow.
07:04 crab not sure it was the documentation's fault, but that change certainly clarifies things.
07:05 sri if an explanation is hard to understand just let me know
07:12 sri btw. still looking for a crazy volunteer
07:12 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/127
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07:12 sri http://www.cpantesters.org/distro​/M/Mojolicious.html#Mojolicious-1.21 # there are a few more of that fail report here
07:13 sri from what i gathered you need freebsd or windows7 to debug it
07:15 sri but i guess you would have to be really really good to fix that
07:15 sri could be an endianess problem in the websocket generator or so, timing bug in the event loop writer
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07:17 sri maybe even related to kernel send buffer size
07:17 * sri needs to learn how to lure volunteers :(
07:18 crab i'd volunteer if i still had a freebsd box
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07:48 sri excuses excuses
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07:54 marcus I have
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08:03 sri marcus: excuses or freebsd?
08:03 marcus sri: both
08:03 sri :o
08:03 marcus excuse is 'last day at client, deadline looming'.
08:04 sri /o\
08:12 sri those new 50 page oreilly books are really neat
08:17 sri marcus: btw. finish your article!
08:18 * sri cracks the whip
08:26 sri cool, bson implementation is down to 660 lines now :)
08:26 crab add six more lines
08:27 sri hmm
08:29 Christian do it ;)
08:30 stephanj ye
08:32 sri damn
08:32 sri down to 650 already :S
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08:33 stephanj nooooo!
08:33 crab the only thing to do is to remove 608 lines then.
08:33 stephanj add 16 lines then
08:33 sri easier said than done!
08:36 stephanj the add or remove?
08:36 sri both
08:37 stephanj just compress all lines, remove spaces and so on linebreaks till you reach the goal :)
08:37 stephanj make it readable!
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09:32 GitHub62 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 6e71227 (3 files in 3 dirs): updated tests and documentation for the latest home directory detection improvements - http://bit.ly/kvcOtB
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09:46 sri please test
09:46 sri hope those still pass on all platforms
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09:58 perlrocks Twitter: "If I use Mojolicious, Dennou Coil remembered. Yo teletext." (ja) --pascaljp http://twitter.com/pascalj​p/status/63904947137290240
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10:00 GitHub44 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 1f5b62f (1 files in 1 dirs): added external static file test - http://bit.ly/ks8bvK
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10:45 marcus Everybody! Everybody in the house of love!
10:45 marcus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kav0FEhtLug
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10:51 sri that's old!
10:54 marcus this is a new spoof?
10:54 marcus for the royal wedding
10:54 marcus based on the old one
10:55 sri oh, i see
10:56 sri t-mobile stole the idea from the old one
11:03 marcus yepp
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11:26 marcus yko was busted? http://torrentfreak.com/police-raid-russ​ias-largest-porn-bittorrent-site-110428/
11:27 yko marcus: that was ukrainian porn torrent
11:27 marcus yko: not yours? ;)
11:27 yko accident happens in my city actually
11:28 yko we all mourn here
11:28 yko not mine unfortunately. or now i'd better say - fortunately
11:29 yko police promises to find and punish al of 2 million torrent users, hehe
11:30 marcus haha
11:31 yko by ukrainian law you can be fined by $600 or prizoned for 5 years for creatind or distributing porn, or so
11:31 marcus they have their work cut out for them then.
11:31 marcus I would prefer the fine then :p
11:31 marcus pretty serious difference
11:31 yko well, i think it's judge's work to make preferences in that cases
11:32 yko and all depends on how much would you pay to judge. that's the way how does ukrainian law works
11:34 stephanj so if you suggest the judge you pay 600 and 400 for him his decission would be clear?
11:36 yko no, you pay to judge via judge's trustees for example about $5K (and trustees will take some %) and maybe judge will make things so you pay 400-600 fine and don't go to the jail
11:37 stephanj k
11:39 marcus good transparent system.
11:39 marcus :)
11:39 yko marcus: i think pronlab just posted some kind of boring content, so ukrainian police got tired of that and decided to close that site :)
11:40 marcus lol
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12:44 ZadYree Hello
12:44 ZadYree I got a question: Is it possible to use mojo on windows?
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12:45 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojolicious/Guides​/FAQ#Does_Mojolicious_run_on_Windows_systems3F
12:45 ZadYree ah ty
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14:35 Christian nice we to you all
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17:10 metaperl So sri what did you not like about PLP - http://search.cpan.org/~shiar/PLP/lib/PLP.pm
17:14 sri metaperl: ?
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17:17 metaperl I was just wondering about Mojo::Template compared to PLP since PLP had been around long before Mojo but they are somewhat similar
17:18 metaperl it's just a chatty kinda question - nothing important
17:18 sri well, they are only similar at first sight
17:20 sri Mojo::Template even got forked a few times already, it's that popular :)
17:20 metaperl yeah, I remember. by some japanese guys (forgot their name)
17:23 sri and we are still inventing, don't think anyone else does indented perl lines or begin/end blocks yet
17:23 sri (to mention more end user visible features)
17:24 metaperl yes that was a major drawback of Mason - the Perl line had to be in the first column
17:25 sri i've also experimented with razor syntax, but it's too magical
17:26 sri only really works when you control the ide, like microsoft does
17:27 metaperl i dont like the use of pointy braces though - I think the template syntax should contrast with the HTML syntax. I think square brackets help in that respect ...
17:28 sri i disagree
17:29 sri the best i've seen so far was {{ lalala }}
17:29 sri for expression
17:30 sri and {% lalala %} for code
17:31 metaperl and of course we have Mustache, where there is no code
17:31 metaperl p
17:31 sri nice in theory, painful in practice
17:32 metaperl It's what Google uses - CTemplate... but in a sense they are still programming
17:32 metaperl d
17:32 sri mustache only shines when you have client side rendering with server side fallback imo
17:32 metaperl I keep tyring to type emacs commands, but dont realize I'm focused in this channel :)
17:33 sri these days i mostly use indented perl lines anyway
17:35 sri it's just gorgeous with proper highlighting
17:35 metaperl :)
17:38 sri http://twitpic.com/29y9v5 # brackets don't really matter with proper highlighting though
17:39 metaperl what editor are you using? I use Emacs.
17:39 sri textmate
17:39 purl textmate is an OSX text editor, at http://macromates.com/ or featuring dynamic code folding, "snippets", re-orderable tabs, and smart typing (auto-closing blocks, quoted strings, et cetera.) or the new BBEdit or the editor in all those Rails videos or non-free but quite worth it or notepad for OS X or requires a patch to enter Japanese characters which costs $5
17:41 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-Authentication 1.14 by MADCAT - http://frepan.org/~madcat/Mojolic​ious-Plugin-Authentication-1.14/" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/64021601737383936
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18:19 xaka is it possible use perl pipes with Mojo? i mean i have opened pipe and i want to read from it in async manner, but i dont know properly mojo api to do it
18:20 sri which deployment target?
18:20 xaka do you mean OS?
18:21 sri no
18:21 sri cgi, fastcgi, hypnotoad...
18:21 xaka internal web server
18:21 xaka i dont know which one mojolicius use when i do "perl application.pl daemon"
18:21 sri then you can use the Mojo::IOLoop event loop
18:22 sri Mojo::IOLoop->connect(handle => $handle, on_read => sub {...});
18:22 sri something like that should do
18:23 xaka ohh, wow. I should try it, thx. Will it close a handle automatically?
18:23 sri huh, why would it do that?
18:24 xaka when piped command ("ls -l") exits and you dont need a handle anymore, you have to close it
18:25 xaka for each open you should have close, isn't?
18:25 sri what i mean is... how is it supposed to know that it has to close the connection by itself?
18:26 sri the question made no sense to me
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23:45 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-Wolowitz 1.0.0 by GUGOD - http://frepan.org/~gugod/Mojol​icious-Plugin-Wolowitz-1.0.0/" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/64113039477186561

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