Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-05-04

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:26 tempire How would one test for a segfault?
00:27 tardisx you can't really, unless you write a wrapper
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00:40 perlrocks Twitter: "perl-Mojolicious-0.999929-3.fc14 - http://rkrh.kr/1n3" --fedorasecurity http://twitter.com/fedorasecu​rity/status/65576389839044609
00:46 tempire Seeing all these tweets about old mojo versions makes me never want to trust packaging systems ever again
00:58 tempire sweet.  forking works well enough
00:58 k-man tempire, are you refering to forking in github?
00:58 tempire k-man: referring to testing for a segfault
00:58 tempire perl fork command
00:59 k-man oh
00:59 k-man heh
00:59 k-man sorry, grabbed wrong end of the fork ;)
01:08 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-ZombieApocalypse 0.01 by TEMPIRE - http://frepan.org/~tempire/Mojolic​ious-Plugin-ZombieApocalypse-0.01/" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/65583439713275905
01:38 perlrocks Twitter: "[Update] CVE-2011-1589: mojolicious: Directory Traversal vulnerability and Path.pm and My ... http://dlvr.it/QXmss" (sl) --pikipiki_net http://twitter.com/pikipiki_​net/status/65591013770674177
01:38 perlrocks Twitter: "CVE-2010-4803:mojolicious: Mojolicious before 0.999927 does not properly imple... http://dlvr.it/QXmt3" --pikipiki_net http://twitter.com/pikipiki_​net/status/65591015133806593
01:38 perlrocks Twitter: "CVE-2010-4802:mojolicious: Commands.pm in Mojolicious before 0.999928 does not... http://dlvr.it/QXmvW" --pikipiki_net http://twitter.com/pikipiki_​net/status/65591027993550848
01:38 perlrocks Twitter: "CVE-2010-4802:mojolicious: Commands.pm in Mojolicious before 0.999928 does not... http://dlvr.it/QXmwM" --pikipiki_net http://twitter.com/pikipiki_​net/status/65591031109910528
01:38 perlrocks Twitter: "CVE-2011-1841:mojolicious: Cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerability in the lin... http://dlvr.it/QXmws" --pikipiki_net http://twitter.com/pikipiki_​net/status/65591033039290369
01:38 perlrocks Twitter: "[Update] CVE-2011-1589: mojolicious: Directory Traversal vulnerability and Path.pm and My ... http://dlvr.it/QXmxG" (sl) --pikipiki_net http://twitter.com/pikipiki_​net/status/65591038512869377
01:38 perlrocks Twitter: "CVE-2010-4803:mojolicious: Mojolicious before 0.999927 does not properly imple... http://dlvr.it/QXmxX" --pikipiki_net http://twitter.com/pikipiki_​net/status/65591043244040192
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02:01 nop Hello! Has anyone run into trouble using M::Lite and embedded templates on DotCloud?
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02:12 PerlNinja o/
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04:12 k-man hi PerlNinja
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04:23 PerlNinja hola k-man
04:23 tardisx sri: I hooked up a dotcloud Mojolicious to a dotcloud PostgreSQL
04:23 tardisx it works :-) it's neat :-) I wonder how much this thing is gonna cost :-D
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04:29 * PerlNinja is also eagerly awaiting dotcloud pricing
04:29 tardisx the www. prefix thing is a bit of a show-stopper. who uses www anymore? :-)
04:30 tardisx well, I know it doesn't have to be www, but no bare domain is a problem
04:30 PerlNinja can't cname a bare domain, that's probably why
04:30 tardisx yep
04:31 PerlNinja nothing stopping you from running the bare domain on a linode and just having it bounce redirects
04:32 miyagawa you can also use cloudflare
04:32 tardisx nothing except for the ugliness
04:32 miyagawa http://support.dotcloud.com/entries/481640-more-​flexible-aliases-that-don-t-require-a-subdomain
04:34 miyagawa i wonder what the embedded template problem was that nop had
04:35 PerlNinja no idea - he didn't mention what it was
04:38 miyagawa Hrm
04:38 miyagawa yeah i definitely get that error
04:39 miyagawa i mean, an error :)
04:39 k-man I would love to see an example of retreiving data from a database, and outputting it to a web page in mojo
04:39 miyagawa i guess Mojolicious::Lite failing to read from __DATA__ on uwsgi environment
04:39 k-man in case anyone feels inclined to write one
04:46 PerlNinja might be that ::Lite is trying to read from that psgi file instead of itself
04:49 miyagawa sri: can you confirm ?
04:50 miyagawa it works with plackup, so it should have something to do with the way uwsgi evaluates the .psgi file
04:50 miyagawa if that's the case i'm happy to talk to the author about coordinating a fix
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05:07 miyagawa http://gist.github.com/954786 is the script
05:08 miyagawa i get 'foo' as _detect_template_class return value (since i have 'package foo')
05:08 miyagawa if i remove the package then it becomes main, since uwsgi evaluates the .psgi in main
05:08 miyagawa anyway whichever it was, the get_inline_templates fail to load the template it seems
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05:28 miyagawa aha.
05:29 miyagawa if i make app.psgi to do 'require "app.pl"' instead of a symlink
05:29 miyagawa then that works
05:36 miyagawa i'll update the dotcloud docs to use that instead of a symlink, but also emailed Roberto, the author of uWSGI, to see if it can be fixed there
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05:57 MisterHatt miyagawa: you work on dotclouyd?
05:57 MisterHatt dotcloud even
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06:09 miyagawa yep
06:16 MisterHatt still with typepad as well?
06:17 marcus ooh, dotcloud beta, i haz it
06:17 miyagawa MisterHatt: No
06:17 miyagawa MisterHatt: http://bulknews.typepad.com/
06:18 MisterHatt was already reading, orz
06:18 miyagawa ha
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06:19 zakame hi hi
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06:23 k-man is there any blog engines written in mojo?
06:23 MisterHatt a few
06:23 MisterHatt no idea how many are public that aren't vtiware though
06:23 k-man vtiware?
06:23 k-man oh right - vti
06:24 k-man I sense there is some issues with this vti person
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06:25 MisterHatt who knows, bootylicious is still a blog written in mojo though, even if it is vti
06:26 * MisterHatt is writing a blog +more engine in mojo as well, but it's not ready yet
06:26 MisterHatt apparently you need proper administration and things when releasing software that isn't used in-house, who knew
06:26 Alias :)
06:28 marcus bootylicious would be nice, except it hasn't been maintained for the last 6 years
06:28 marcus it was nice when it worked
06:29 MisterHatt that long?
06:29 MisterHatt I thought it was like, 2 years
06:29 marcus I meant months
06:29 marcus but it's probably more like a year
06:29 MisterHatt yeah
06:29 * PerlNinja has  been tinkering with blog software in Mojolicious
06:29 PerlNinja but it's the admin end that just keeps me stuck :P too lazy to finish it really
06:29 MisterHatt last time I looked at it, showed last commit in 2009 or something
06:30 MisterHatt PerlNinja: same here
06:30 PerlNinja what stops you from forking it though?
06:30 MisterHatt my current setup just parses uploaded ftp files
06:30 marcus MisterHatt: last release may 2010
06:30 marcus I'm actually looking for a replacement for wordpress for a multi-user blog system
06:30 marcus we might end up just writing it ourselves tho
06:30 MisterHatt PerlNinja: I guess compl;exity? he has stuff that to me at least looks overly abstracted and broken up and I can barely tell how it works
06:31 PerlNinja marcus: I found MovableType still does the trick... even if it isn't that good
06:31 MisterHatt marcus: I need a combined wiki/knowledgebase thing with blog and video blog entries on the front page written by contributors
06:31 MisterHatt so... fun
06:31 MisterHatt also I am terrible at pagination
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06:34 Christian morning
06:37 stephanj k-man: try bootylite please
06:37 stephanj https://github.com/memowe/bootylite
06:38 k-man google beat you to it ;)
06:38 stephanj mh?
06:38 purl mh is a unix commandline-based mail user agent or at http://www.ics.uci.edu/~mh/ or Men's Health magazine or a "women's magazine" for men or Getty's way of saying hm or stephan48's way of saying hm
06:38 stephanj its a rewrite of bootilicious
06:39 miyagawa uWSGI guy just fixed the DATA issue on app.psgi. Always quick :)
06:43 PerlNinja nice
06:47 k-man so if my sql query returns me an array of rows from a table. how should I use that array to output something?
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06:51 k-man what is the benefit of something like this: Mojolicious::Plugin::Database
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06:53 moritz not much, it seems
06:53 moritz it doesn't even automatically reconnect on lost connections or something
06:53 moritz it just wraps a DBI->connect call, and caches the result
06:53 yko and provides helper! :)
06:53 * yko waves
06:53 PerlNinja pretty much that's all it does yes
06:54 PerlNinja I don't like plugins that do too much magic :P
06:54 MisterHatt some could do with more though
06:54 PerlNinja that and I just wrote it for the hell of it anyway :D
06:55 MisterHatt did you also write the couchdb module or was that someone else?
06:55 PerlNinja moritz, but if you want to see auto-reconnect and things like that, just mention it and I'll stick it in
06:55 MisterHatt I recall there being one that was actually useful, but it was a bit complicated
06:55 PerlNinja MisterHatt: someone else I think, I just did ::Database and ::Mongodb
06:56 MisterHatt ah
06:56 PerlNinja and ::Authentication .. that one being the more involved one
06:56 MisterHatt I don't think there was a specific mojo plugin for it anyway
06:56 MisterHatt the auth and pagination and everything else plugins are really cool until you realise they do things differently to how you need, and then it gets irritating :/
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06:56 moritz PerlNinja: it's just that I don't see how that plugin saves more than 3 lines of code, or so
06:57 moritz PerlNinja: some people still like such modules, I personally don't think it's worth the extra dependency
06:58 PerlNinja moritz, it's not done to save the extra lines of code, I think initially it was just to illustrate how to deal with getting DBI connections and not get in trouble with daemon_prefork or hypnotoad
06:59 PerlNinja was more for illustrative purposes, but i'm a fan of putting what I've got on CPAN, it's simple now but at least it's there and can be built on to be something bigger/better :)
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07:23 marcus MisterHatt: we don't want mt
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07:27 PerlNinja marcus: he didn't mention MT, I did :P hehe
07:27 marcus PerlNinja: damn, guess those two lines just blended together.
07:27 PerlNinja :D
07:28 marcus PerlNinja: we need to make something a lot simpler than mt, and we need to customize it a bit.
07:28 marcus and hacking on the mt code base is not something I would welcome
07:28 MisterHatt marcus: mt?
07:28 purl hmmm... mt is a server application that is now a full CMS written in perl and PHP for "dynamic publishing" or Movable Type
07:28 MisterHatt oh w
07:28 PerlNinja I know, MT used to be nice but it's ... well.. it turned nasty
07:29 PerlNinja dead community, dead codebase
07:29 MisterHatt isn't mt the phpbb of blogging software?
07:29 PerlNinja if you mean the redheaded stepchild
07:29 PerlNinja yes
07:29 MisterHatt aha
07:29 PerlNinja it used to be good
07:30 PerlNinja then things went weird. then things went downhill. it's dead, but refusing to pass on, it just sort of lingers around waiting to die
07:30 PerlNinja I use it on my blog but that's because I refuse to install PHP just for that, and I haven't gotten around to writing something myself
07:30 PerlNinja at least... something finished
07:30 k-man ok, I'm working through the mojolicious::lite tutorial
07:31 k-man this bit of wizardry is confusing me: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojolicious%2FLite#toc
07:31 k-man blocks
07:31 k-man sorry, wrong link, hang on
07:31 miyagawa PerlNinja: it dies when you declare you die
07:31 k-man http://mojolicio.us/perldoc​?Mojolicious%2FLite#Blocks
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07:31 miyagawa it's very well maintained
07:32 miyagawa and also a community fork melody
07:32 k-man so a block is like template and perl code intermingled?
07:33 PerlNinja miyagawa: no offense but melody's community consists of former 6A employees and a few MT consultant types
07:33 PerlNinja it's got a community yes, but a vibrant one, not so much
07:33 marcus melody also has terrible SEO
07:33 marcus tried searching for melody blog and found http://www.usagi-melody.blogspot.com/
07:33 PerlNinja same with MT. Try finding plugins that a) work on 5.x, b) actually function, and c) are maintained. not so much.
07:33 marcus first relevant search hit is http://www.movabletype.org​/2009/06/meet_melody.html
07:33 PerlNinja www.openmelody.org
07:34 miyagawa marcus: it's more of a "openmelody"
07:35 marcus miyagawa: yeah, that's what I mean by horrible seo :)
07:37 marcus it's nice that it is hosted on github tho
07:37 marcus I see it reached 1.0 on april 19th
07:37 miyagawa MT is on github too
07:38 marcus miyagawa: future for mt seems rather bleak given recent sixapart developments tho?
07:38 marcus or do you think it will be an important part of say?
07:38 marcus oh, it's .jp now
07:38 marcus forgot that
07:38 miyagawa that's a non-sense questio
07:39 miyagawa it's not a part of SAY anymore :)
07:39 miyagawa Six Apart != SAY
07:39 PerlNinja umm
07:39 PerlNinja someone bought 6A and the two ended up as SAY, no?
07:39 miyagawa yes
07:39 miyagawa and SAY sold 6A (name) and MT
07:40 marcus miyagawa: to japanese division of six apart?
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07:40 PerlNinja yeah okay, I was going to say along the lines of what Marcus said, I don't see a bright future for MT to be honest
07:41 PerlNinja but that's just me
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07:41 miyagawa well you can just use wordpress ;)
07:42 PerlNinja MT is still better than wordpress
07:43 PerlNinja most of all: MT doesn't require PHP, and MT isn't a walking stack of security holes
07:43 miyagawa yep
07:43 PerlNinja on the feature and useability and hackability and community ... oh, and themes/designs front ... MT doesn't score so well, that's why I say what I say
07:44 stephanj in dotcloud how long does it take after publishing the app till the hostname gets ready?
07:46 miyagawa stephanj: weird question because the order is in reverse
07:47 stephanj h?
07:47 purl h is, like, silent, and occasionally zero-width
07:47 stephanj mh?*
07:47 miyagawa do you have an account or are you asking a theoretical question?
07:47 stephanj i tried http://blog.kraih.com/mojolicio​us-in-the-cloud-hello-dotcloud
07:47 stephanj an beta acc
07:47 miyagawa k
07:47 miyagawa hostname usually gets ready *before* you publish your app
07:47 stephanj ah
07:48 miyagawa after you deploy an instance
07:48 stephanj k
07:48 miyagawa create; deploy; (few minutes); instance is up; push; (few seconds) your app is live
07:49 stephanj ye done that
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07:54 stephanj status says its running
07:54 purl Since Thu Aug  5 20:55:17 2010, there have been 32035 modifications and 17183 questions.  I have been awake for 271 days, 10 hours, 59 minutes, 35 seconds this session, and currently reference 877877 factoids. Addressing is in optional mode.
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07:58 marcus alas, poor purl, I knew her well.
08:02 miyagawa stephanj: our frontend nginx seems to have an issue. i'm escalating this now. Try again later ... sorry about that
08:03 MisterHatt miyagawa: sounds like the setup is a bit... wonky
08:04 miyagawa huh?
08:04 MisterHatt or, sorta overly complicated for what it needs to do
08:04 MisterHatt I don't know if that makes sense
08:04 stephanj miyagawa: no problem :)
08:05 * MisterHatt goes dinner
08:05 miyagawa is 4 lines of commands to deploy your app magically "overly complicated"?
08:05 stephanj i think its ok
08:05 miyagawa (well, we'll definitely be simplifying things that don't need to be complicated for sure)
08:05 stephanj :)
08:10 PerlNinja as far as I can tell from a user end of things it's about as simple as it gets
08:11 PerlNinja dunno about the implementation but it seems to be alright ... there's only so many ways to roll a cloud after all
08:40 stephanj ye
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09:03 sri good morning fellow evil super computers
09:04 * PerlNinja looks ... wait, when did I turn into a computer?!
09:05 PerlNinja sri: before_render hook++
09:06 sri PerlNinja: need more examples for cool stuff one can do with it ;)
09:07 PerlNinja let me wikificate for a bit
09:08 sri considering the amount of stuff you can get running on dotcloud with those four commands i don't think it's too complicated
09:08 sri i'm especially impressed with setting up databases
09:08 sri can't wait for workers with port forwarding :)
09:15 PerlNinja https://github.com/kraih/moj​o/wiki/Helpful-Code-Snippets
09:15 PerlNinja bottom of the page for before_hook examples
09:16 PerlNinja or actually the whole reason I wanted to see it in the first place :D
09:17 miyagawa stephanj: it should be clear now
09:17 moritz can I do anything to get a dotcloud invitation? :-)
09:17 marcus moritz: did you sign up for one?
09:18 miyagawa sign up from the web, wait for a day or two
09:18 moritz marcus: I only tried it with already-used invite codes :/
09:18 moritz ok, will sign up
09:27 stephanj cool :)
09:27 purl cool :) are you oging to either event tomorrow?
09:27 stephanj i got my invite after 1-2 weeks i think
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09:32 GitHub36 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 20aca23 (1 files in 1 dirs): added template test - http://bit.ly/jufHT5
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10:11 perlrocks Twitter: "perl-1.220.0-1mdv2011.0 Mojolicious-uploaded to contrib / release, cooker: Mandriva http://bit.ly/lt6viy #" (fr) --Kharec http://twitter.com/Kharec/status/65720296912596992
10:48 memowe When testing a project I want to change the config file settings from the Config plugin locally. Is there a way to do it?
10:49 memowe For now I used a terrible hack and overwrote the parse method of the plugin to do the changes.
10:51 perlrocks Twitter: "Forward:: Routes 00:15 http://bit.ly/mrlJn9, # # Mojolicious like routes and Rails resources like for # # Plack Perl web framework developers" (de) --fwever http://twitter.com/fwever/status/65730151945736192
10:51 memowe Like *{Mojolicious::Plugin::Config::parse} = sub { ...
10:53 memowe https://gist.github.com/955067
10:53 memowe That's pain in the ...
10:53 memowe Maybe an environment var could change the filename?
10:54 koban memowe: would it be better to have separate myapp.test.conf and set $ENV{Mode} = 'test'; ?
10:54 memowe koban: it would! I didn't know that.
10:54 koban now you know ;)
10:54 sri umm, there is an env var already i'm quite sure
10:55 memowe sri: oh, OK, I'll look for it.
10:55 koban MOJO_MODE
10:56 memowe MOJO_CONFIG. Never mind.
10:56 memowe Thanks, guys. :)
10:56 koban https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/​t/mojolicious/json_config_mode_lite_app.t
10:59 memowe koban: yip, https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/maste​r/lib/Mojolicious/Plugin/Config.pm#L133
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11:11 GitHub63 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 10f66ec (2 files in 2 dirs): added recursion protection to before_render hook - http://bit.ly/m5kFba
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11:14 stephanj miyagawa: is the smtp service configurable to accept mail from outside? :)
11:14 stephanj on the specific port ofcourse
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11:15 GitHub105 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * dfca01f (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed typos - http://bit.ly/mCQgZR
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11:18 sri i'm still a little unsure about before_render
11:18 stephanj why?
11:18 * PerlNinja likes it
11:18 PerlNinja i need it :D hehe
11:19 sri it needs recursion protection for example
11:19 PerlNinja mmm... yeah okay beyond that though it's okay
11:20 PerlNinja or just... sorta.. keep it in there and mark it as "if you do something dumb, like calling ->render, you keep both pieces as soon as your machine stops thrashing"
11:20 PerlNinja :)
11:20 * Debolaz spots a PerlNinja
11:20 sri i kinda like that args and stash are still split in before_render
11:21 sri you can make new magic ->render(foo => 'bar') calls that way
11:21 PerlNinja for me it's just that having access to the stash before it's rendered means i can make auto rendering DWIW without having to explicitly code in that kind of behaviour that i wanted it for
11:23 sri the price for every new hook btw is about 2rps at 1000rps
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11:24 PerlNinja mmm
11:24 PerlNinja if i'm doing 1000rps i've got enough hardware to absorb 2rps loss for a hook :P
11:25 PerlNinja that's uh.. what.. 0.2% performance decrease
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12:13 elb0w purl yo momma
12:13 purl couldn't get the headlines: http://downlode.org/Code/Perl/​RSS/FeedStuff/?source=yo-mama wasn't successful
12:13 elb0w purl yo yo
12:13 purl foolish child.
12:13 elb0w purl hola
12:13 purl bonjour, elb0w.
12:13 elb0w purl tikanez
12:13 purl elb0w: excuse me?
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12:56 sri really need some good examples for the before_render pod description
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12:59 sri a plugin using it would also be nice
13:02 sri http://maxvoltar.com # neat chrome/webkit scrollbar
13:09 elb0w sri, http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2011/May/75
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13:09 elb0w purl http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2011/May/75
13:09 purl elb0w: huh?
13:09 elb0w !
13:09 elb0w it should read website titles
13:10 elb0w imo
13:10 sri elb0w: ?
13:10 jfuller left #mojo
13:11 elb0w the bot
13:11 elb0w why is there no mojo bot?
13:11 sri why did you poke me?
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13:12 elb0w major security issues
13:12 elb0w !
13:12 sri and how do those affect us?
13:13 elb0w Listen, ill poke whoever I damn well please
13:13 elb0w dont get fresh with me
13:13 * sri pokes elb0w back, harder
13:13 * elb0w ouch
13:14 elb0w yarg why isnt it saturday
13:14 elb0w :(
13:14 * chansen orders a nuclear bomb
13:14 * memowe orders a buclear nomb. nomb nomb nomb.
13:15 * chansen crap, it failed to detonate
13:15 * alnewkirk is waiting on phenona
13:18 sri phenona will have a hard time once dotcloud gets perl worker support
13:18 sri having a perl client that can be installed easily via cpan is an advantage though
13:19 sri installing the dotcloud client is mostly not fun
13:19 PerlNinja mmm phenona will have it's niche
13:19 alnewkirk sri, plus your looks like it might stay free for a while .... :}
13:19 alnewkirk dotcloud doesnt
13:19 PerlNinja it's not as cloudy as dotcloud but still cool
13:20 sri yea, phenona could have an easier time to stay on top of current developments in the perl community
13:20 stephanj ye
13:20 stephanj i had to install python2.6 from source(not in deb5) and then install some virtualenv version to get it to make me a env for p2.6
13:20 PerlNinja i see dotcloud more as EC2 with tasty wrappers
13:20 PerlNinja where phenona is more like heroku
13:21 sri ye
13:21 sri dotcloud however could start a webapp marketplace, with one click app installs
13:21 * moritz wants postgres, which currently neither dotcloud nor phenona seem to offer :/
13:22 stephanj moritz? hue?
13:22 sri dotcloud does
13:22 moritz it does?
13:22 purl if you say so...
13:22 stephanj dotcloud does ye
13:22 moritz cool
13:22 sri it was the first database they offered
13:22 stephanj its referenced in the redmine tutorial
13:23 * moritz just blind
13:23 alnewkirk i think redis and mongodb plus mysql will meet the needs of most
13:23 moritz then I'm not "most" :-)
13:23 sri redis, mongodb and postgres you mean ;p
13:23 stephanj ye
13:23 stephanj who wants mysql?!
13:24 * moritz knows people who do
13:24 * alnewkirk shamefully never made the transition
13:25 alnewkirk mysql to postgres
13:25 purl i guess mysql to postgres is like that moment in the wizard of oz when everything becomes beautiful full color
13:25 sri lol
13:25 alnewkirk though I assume sqlite will be native, advertising support for it wouldnt hurt
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13:32 * PerlNinja just needs mongodb :P
13:32 * PerlNinja is becoming a nosql elitist ... *dons baret*
13:35 elb0w is phenona yours sri or they just liked the raptor?
13:35 sri they liked the raptor
13:35 elb0w thats cool
13:35 elb0w be nice if it gets adopted
13:35 sri i don't even have a beta invite yet ;p
13:37 elb0w haters gonna hate
13:38 PerlNinja raptors gonna... rap?
13:39 moritz raptors gonna vomit.
13:39 elb0w who the hell thought up a onion for a perl logo
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13:40 moritz elb0w: if I tell you that it started as a pun, can you guess?
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13:40 elb0w moritz, my only guess would be larry wall since thats the only person I really know anything about regarding perl haha
13:41 moritz elb0w: correct
13:41 moritz elb0w: he gave several "State of the Onion" talks at OSCON
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14:22 mateu the first three were given at the predecessor to OSCON called "Perl Conference".  The layers of onion were used for analogy, but I can't seem to find a link to the 1st one.
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14:31 * marcus submits his mojolicious talk to NPW and YAPC::EU
14:31 sri \o/
14:32 sri marcus: i really liked the article you were working on last time i saw it, would be a shame not to finish it
14:33 marcus sri: it would be. I will do it, just moving and stuff has taken a lot of my energy/time
14:33 marcus but things are getting more or less in order now
14:33 sri great
14:33 sri it's the kind of "broad introduction" i so far failed to write
14:35 * mateu dangles a golden carrot in front of marcus
14:35 marcus mateu: what kind of a girl do you take me for?
14:36 mateu a cute and gullable one?
14:36 marcus that's what I thought
14:36 mateu gullible* # english is hards
14:39 PerlNinja one day there should be a perl conference in Indonesia or at least Malaysia .. or maybe Singapore
14:39 PerlNinja at least then I could show up :d
14:40 marcus Thanks, your talk submission has been recorded as Mojolicious - A New Hope.
14:40 marcus PerlNinja: .jp is unpossible?
14:40 marcus there's a conference there every year.
14:41 * sri humms the imperial march
14:41 PerlNinja marcus: nop, too far away really
14:41 marcus I find it strange that they call it YAPC Europe, yet it is always in tokyo :)
14:41 PerlNinja and i'd need to get visa - pain in the ass cos have to go jp embassy in jakarta
14:41 PerlNinja and that's ... yeah
14:42 marcus sounds fun
14:42 PerlNinja well it's mostly the indonesian staffers that make it a bitch :D
14:43 PerlNinja had to accompany a friend and they basically refuse to speak indonesian - they will insist on speaking english, but their english is worse than my indonesian .. and my indonesian isn't that good to beginw ith
14:43 PerlNinja so all in all it just turns into one big confused mess
14:43 PerlNinja so meh :D
14:44 perlrocks Twitter: "New talk submitted: ‎Mojolicious - A New Hope #ye2011 #perl #mojo http://yapceurope.lv/ye2011/talk/3433" --yapcrussia http://twitter.com/yapcruss​ia/status/65788770955431936
14:44 marcus that was quick, my submission to yapc::eu is already accepted :)
14:44 PerlNinja was considering seeing if Bandung,pm has any life left in it but ... seems it's dead
14:44 sri \o/
14:44 PerlNinja that is quick :D
14:45 mateu yapcrussia?
14:45 marcus yapc eu is in riga
14:45 marcus arranged by the russians, afaik
14:45 mateu ah, cool. wife going w/ ya?
14:46 marcus Yepp. We'll probably stay at her cousin's place in Riga.
14:46 PerlNinja hope vti doesn't try to come kill you marcus :P
14:46 marcus I have no problems with vti
14:46 marcus and I don't think he has any issues with me... He gave me the haml renderer without problems
14:47 PerlNinja nah just kidding, vti, russian, yapc eu organised by russians... there's a russian mob joke in there somewhere
14:47 PerlNinja see this is why I turned to programming instead of stand-up comedy
14:47 PerlNinja I suck marginally less at the former
14:47 marcus PerlNinja: it was probably for the best.
14:48 PerlNinja yeah I have no funny :(
14:49 sri can haz funny?
14:49 PerlNinja no can haz... cos ... no haz ... no can gief
14:49 PerlNinja i speak caturdayese though
14:49 sri :(
14:53 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojo TaGO open for lunch downtown at 3rd and State.  Mojolicious." --mojotago http://twitter.com/mojotag​o/status/65791241455017984
15:06 marcus wtf
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15:07 * sri is now hungry
15:08 kvorg sri: can i bother you with a question regarding the use of Mojo::IOLoop. My app is communicating with a backend application, currenty via a module written with  IPC::Open3. It sends commands via the STDIO and reads STDOUT and STDERR. The module has some problems and I would like to rewrite. Do you have examples how to do the polling using Mojo::IOLoop?
15:09 kvorg examples would really help so that I don't cause too much noise over the channel with silly questions here.
15:09 sri there is MojoX::Run on cpan, it's a bit outdated though
15:09 kvorg alternatively, I can go with IPC::Open3 and just do the async polling externally with IOLoop as I do now.
15:10 kvorg damn, forgot about that
15:10 sri Mojo::IOLoop->connect(handle => $handle, on_read => sub {...}); should be the only example you need though
15:11 sri example on the wiki would be very much appreciated though
15:11 kvorg and you would just do that for STDOUT and STDERR?
15:11 sri this is becoming kind of a common question
15:12 sri yes you would
15:12 kvorg it sure is. that is because Mojo[licous] became the perfect glue for putting things up on the web
15:12 kvorg people will want to connect all kind of things with mojolicious
15:12 sri maybe a modern version of MojoX::Run as a plugin would be neat
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15:13 kvorg plus i find that Mojo::Base is just the kind of object base i like. i rewrote the high-level glue for this thing in it and i have 5 times the functionality in the same amount of code as the original module, just much faster
15:15 kvorg incidentaly, many of my objects have array or has references in attributes. i suppose people could get confused about how to do that, perhaps some more examples of such usage in the pod (as opposed to the code) would be nice
15:15 sri more examples are always good
15:16 kvorg ow, and i can't tell you how nice it is to be able to get delayed instantiation of objects in attributes so easily with the Mojo::Base syntax, i don't think people (outside the Mojolicious users) realize how clean and neat things can be with this
15:16 sri <3 lazy attributes
15:17 kvorg yep. it was painful watching the simplicity that replaced the hairy code in the original implementation
15:18 kvorg btw, i have found the wiki example of testing lite apps very useful.
15:18 kvorg do you think a generator for a lite app test would be helpful?
15:19 sri dunno
15:20 kvorg i will think about it and perhaps submit a test. i understand that you don't really want to channel people into overextending lite apps instead of growing them?
15:21 kvorg *a test ->  a pull request for a generator
15:22 sri you can always make it a separate distribution ;)
15:22 sri need more plugins!
15:22 sri even if it doesn't get used much, such a generator plugin would be a good example
15:24 kvorg ok
15:25 kvorg MojoX::Run was last updated on february 28th, and it requires at least Mojolicious 0.999940.
15:25 sri what i'd rather like to see in core would be tests for generators, before adding new ones
15:25 kvorg you have a point there
15:25 sri MojoX::Run predates a few ioloop updates, think we fixed a few things it needed workarounds for
15:26 kvorg not just testing if it generates the files you expect, but if they actually load and run, i expect?
15:26 sri ideally
15:26 kvorg quite a nicely self-contained sub-task :-P
15:26 sri doing that portably can be a bitch i think
15:27 kvorg i thought there are sufficient directory and loading functionalities in core and Mojolicious?
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15:28 moritz the tools shoudl be there, but it can still be a bitch
15:28 sri well, windows has bitten me so many times...
15:28 kvorg hmm, in fact, if we had generators for tests for lite app, makefile and similar, the generator tests could simply run the generators and related tests
15:29 kvorg we might have to expand the tests generated to cover the generators better, but that would not be much of a harm, no?
15:29 kvorg the test would generate and app or a lite app, run the apps' test generator and then run its tests
15:30 sri sounds scary to debug if somethign breaks
15:30 sri test fail in a generated test... eeep
15:30 kvorg yeah, i am not sure how to handle that with the test harness ...
15:31 kvorg but if generated tests pass, you are really testing the genereated app and generated tests
15:31 sri testing if files look sane and have the right permissions should be a good start
15:31 kvorg i will look into it. i am currently writing the test for my damn app since there is more interest in the related field (corpus linguistics) than i expected and i am now headed towards a full distribution
15:32 sri testing generated tests is still damn scary
15:32 kvorg it is
15:33 kvorg writing 10 good tests per day is quite a lot of work, and i am only 60% done ... i will never skip tests while developing again (and i should write that 100 times without the use of 'x' operator)
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15:35 moritz use map :-)
15:37 sri btw. we still need a new codename
15:37 sri http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1F300.pdf
15:37 sri START LOOKING!
15:37 sri something for the summer
15:39 sri TROPICAL DRINK?
15:39 kvorg hmmm, TROPICAL DRINK sounds inviting
15:40 kvorg but my fonts are not showing it to me :-(
15:40 * kvorg slaps his gnu/linux thingy
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15:41 kvorg hmm, last may there should have been a v VOLCANO release
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15:44 GitHub184 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 5b34062 (2 files in 2 dirs): new code name - http://bit.ly/kQD3gW
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15:44 sri :)
15:47 kvorg cool
15:47 kvorg i was away: could you simplify stuff with the 5.8 deprecation? (and no, I don't think i have 5.8 running anywhere, and i tend to have old stuff around for ages)
15:47 sri ?
15:48 sri http://groups.google.com/group/mojolicio​us/browse_thread/thread/510dcf2219371deb
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15:52 kvorg thanx
15:52 kvorg funny comments, to be expected, of course
15:53 kvorg but over here, we like to run modern operating systems, and if anyone really needs obsolete stuff, we stuff obsolete people in VMs with old RHEL and Centos releases, and leave the rest of the world in the flow of time.
15:53 kvorg after all, one has to draw a line somewhere. otherwise, one would have to support people running stuff in perl4
15:55 * j-v-e just realized that centos 5.6 ships with perl v5.8.8 !!! :'(
15:56 * kvorg shows the centos related VMs in a corner and happily ignores them.
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15:56 j-v-e seriously, even debian lenny, 3 years old, comes with perl 5.10
15:58 sri well, see my comments in the list thread for examples of serious flaws in perl 5.8
15:58 PerlNinja RHEL and Centos are the only ones that still ship 5.8.8, Debian, Gentoo, Ubuntu, and pretty much all others come with 5.10
15:59 PerlNinja it's like.. RH is intent on trying to keep the putrefying gory zombie corpse that is perl 5.8 alive somehow
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16:00 kvorg sorry to have (re)started this conversation. let's leave the zombies to rot in peace. this is a modern project, they can go use the perl1 re-creation.
16:00 * kvorg escapes to the sunny outside and waves.
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16:04 PerlNinja sri: 1F3FF - Herb. Summer makes me want to smoke leafy green things :P
16:04 sri mmmmm
16:05 PerlNinja either that or 1F420 - Tropical Fish
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16:08 GitHub179 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 22280f0 (1 files in 1 dirs): more serious Perl 5.8 deprecation warning - http://bit.ly/jbTzNS
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16:09 sri i don't want to scare people, but they should think about it
16:09 PerlNinja meh
16:10 PerlNinja anyone running 5.8 isn't keeping up with the times anyway, so if they want to use mojolicious and it forces them to upgrade or not use the awesomesauce ... their problem
16:10 PerlNinja last time i saw a 5.8 perl was on a machine i installed RHEL on 3 years ago
16:10 sri yea, it's onlt rhel/centos
16:10 sri *only
16:10 PerlNinja fuck em
16:10 sri i fucking hate deadrat linux...
16:11 PerlNinja majority of people seem to run debian or ubuntu or another half-sane distro that ships with a decent perl
16:11 * PerlNinja admits to using RH 4 at some point in time
16:11 sri cheap hosters and enterprisey people sadly love rhel...
16:11 PerlNinja then i found out about Gentoo ... now I can't be arsed dicking with it being on a slow internet link so.. Ubuntu it is
16:12 PerlNinja sri: cheap hosters just use it because cPanel and/or Plesk tend to require Centos or RHEL
16:12 PerlNinja and then there's the "yeah but RHEL has support! omgz..." thing..
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16:14 PerlNinja I dunno, in my adminning career I've always managed to put my foot down and install sane distros ...
16:14 PerlNinja even if it meant telling my boss yes, RHEL is installed.. and in the meantime I'm quietly slipping the Debian CD's in my bag
16:19 PerlNinja so hey sri .. a mojolicious plugin that lets people write controllers in javascript :P should i bother sticking that on cpan for novelty value or not bother :D
16:19 sri PerlNinja: do you really expect me to say no? :D
16:19 PerlNinja well, depends
16:19 purl depends are always installed.
16:19 PerlNinja ...
16:19 PerlNinja purl, depends are diapers for grown up people
16:19 purl ...but depends is always installed....
16:19 purl ...but depends are always installed....
16:20 PerlNinja anyway :) I dunno whether you say no or not, I'd probably do it anyway if you said no :P Just not too interested in scaring people off with odd plugins hehe
16:21 PerlNinja Mojolicious::Plugin::Nodejolicious ... O:-)
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16:21 GitHub46 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * ddf501d (3 files in 3 dirs): updated Mojo::Base to enable Perl 5.10 features if available - http://bit.ly/k25YTS
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16:24 GitHub168 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 1aaf5cc (3 files in 3 dirs): updated Mojolicious::Lite to enable Perl 5.10 features if available - http://bit.ly/jdpwYc
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16:25 PerlNinja meh .. will get around to that later
16:26 PerlNinja first... i go find me a hammer and some nails and make sure the ceiling in my office doesn't come down ... *mumble*
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16:56 perlrocks Twitter: "Awesome, looks like @marcusramberg will be talking about #mojolicious and #starwars at #ye2011 in Riga. :) http://t.co/ScfuFyY #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/65822181573132288
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18:12 perlrocks Twitter: "Vuln: Mojolicious 'helper link_to' HTML Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/47713" (es) --D3Seguridad http://twitter.com/D3Segurid​ad/status/65841148635250688
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18:35 perlrocks Twitter: "Vuln: Mojolicious 'link_to helper' HTML Injection Vulnerability http://dlvr.it/QdXxq" --pikipiki_net http://twitter.com/pikipiki_​net/status/65847027585654784
18:38 perlrocks Twitter: "#hacking #security Vuln: Mojolicious 'link_to helper' HTML Injection Vulnerability http://dlvr.it/QdYNP #slingnews" --secureslinger http://twitter.com/secureslin​ger/status/65847702264619008
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18:42 sharifulin sri, hello ;) I think this is mistake https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/1aaf5​ccd97f54b9afe37ffb14085be10734a34ed#L1R54
18:42 sharifulin if $] >= 5.010
18:43 PerlNinja mistake as in typo, or mistake to require 5.10? :P
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18:43 sharifulin typo of course)
18:44 sharifulin >= 5.10 is good wave :)
18:45 miyagawa not a typo.
18:46 miyagawa perl $] uses 5.XXXYYY formatting
18:47 miyagawa ah, got what you mean. <= vs >= :D
18:47 sharifulin yes, >=
18:49 perlrocks Twitter: "#hacking #virus Mojolicious 'link_to helper' HTML Injection Vulnerability http://goo.gl/fb/g5sPo" --secureslinger http://twitter.com/secureslin​ger/status/65850532522229760
18:54 sri ops
18:54 sri 2 of 4 have the typo :/
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18:54 GitHub167 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 035fa91 (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed typo - http://bit.ly/kNwKCd
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18:59 sharifulin sri, what do u think about this: add to Mojo::Base flag -controller, alias to Mojolicious::Controller?
18:59 sharifulin use Mojo::Base -controller is better than use Mojo::Base 'Mojolicious::Controller' :)
19:02 sharifulin sri, and what do u think about this code of controller https://gist.github.com/955794
19:02 sharifulin My App::Base https://gist.github.com/955787
19:03 sharifulin Do you like 'with' argument in *::Base construction?
19:04 sri too much magic for my taste
19:05 sri i like things simple :)
19:06 sri i can understand -controller, but "with" is way out of my comfort zone
19:07 sharifulin Sometimes I need to include any modules to the controller and use it as attributes
19:08 sharifulin There are a lot of has 'name_of_module' => sub { Name::Of::Module->new(%{ +shift }) }
19:08 sri you forgot use Mojo::Base -app; ;)
19:11 sharifulin sri, Mojolicious::Controller is difficult name for newbie and intermediate mojo folks :)
19:11 sharifulin -controller is very easy and short
19:11 sri actually i especially don't like it for beginners
19:12 sri since important information gets lost
19:12 sharifulin You can use old base syntax
19:12 sri use Mojo::Base 'Mojolicious::Controller'; is simple and obvious
19:12 sharifulin :)
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19:18 sharifulin sri, okay :) What do you think about the support for relative paths in include helpers?
19:18 sharifulin i.e. include './some_tmpl'
19:19 sri how would that be different from what we have now?
19:19 sharifulin relative to the current controller and action
19:20 sharifulin for example: admin-news#item
19:20 sharifulin admin/news/item.html.ep
19:21 sri that could easily be a plugin
19:21 sharifulin contains include 'admin/new/more.inc'
19:21 sharifulin include './more.inc'
19:21 sharifulin Why not in the core?
19:21 sri because i'm not convinced
19:22 sri i want to see people actually use it fist
19:22 sri *+r
19:23 sri especially now that we have before_render
19:23 sri this could be a perfect use case :)
19:23 sri and i need examples for it
19:24 sharifulin okay
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19:24 PerlNinja before_render++ :P
19:25 sri rewriting the template argument could work quite well
19:26 sharifulin Finally it would be cool if in debug mode has been written about what was to render the template
19:28 * sri didn't understand that sentence
19:31 sharifulin I'd like to see all rendered name of templates in logs (debug mode)
19:32 moritz that would be awesome
19:32 moritz (maybe too noisy by default, so only enabled with a special flag)
19:34 moritz especially since the error messages don't contain the template names
19:34 sri that's rather complicated
19:34 sri but i'd like that too
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19:50 metaperl the mojo error screen is designed for browser viewing. however, I am running an ajax call and I would prefer some sort of dump to a text file or plain text response... or maybe this dynamic error page dumped to a file so I can open it and view it
19:51 metaperl in other words, my ajax called error'ed out with a server error (./start.pl daemon --reload)
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19:52 moritz metaperl: define your own exception.format.ep ?
19:52 sri it only does exception.html.ep by default
19:52 sri he will have to make his own render_exception
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19:57 GitHub191 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * ff05dde (7 files in 7 dirs): improved debug log messages for template rendering - http://bit.ly/lVE3Bb
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19:57 sri moritz: i think you'll like that
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20:05 metaperl i see
20:05 metaperl which files does daemon --reload check for recency?
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20:06 sri all
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20:10 perlrocks Twitter: "Prepping a mojolicious event for @undergroundtea - think visionary speakers, creative connections, biz tips & gorgeous cakes #shabam!" --AlexiaLenoir http://twitter.com/AlexiaLen​oir/status/65870963077681152
20:11 sri get out of my twitter stream!
20:11 sri mmmmm... cake
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22:40 k-man hehe
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