Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-05-11

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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03:24 tempire !!
03:24 tempire 1.31 failed to install via cpan on my machine
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03:29 tempire error: http://pastie.org/1887572  mojo ver: http://pastie.org/1887578
03:30 tempire ack!  IO::Socket::SSL 1.42 compile fails too
03:30 tempire the world is broken!
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05:17 crab your machine is broken
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05:44 tempire my machine is my world
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06:24 Christian morning
06:27 moritz good morning
06:27 purl Lies!
06:27 moritz crab: 1.42 doesn't install here either, 1.40 does
06:37 crab ok, then both your machines are broken ;-)
06:37 crab (i was just being contrary, i haven't even tried it)
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07:41 marcus sri: still behind rakudo on most watched here
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08:40 sri marcus: rakudo has more watchers *again*
08:40 marcus guess they rallied some support =)
08:40 sri tempire: IO::Socket::SSL problem
08:40 sri not much we can do about that
08:41 sri also some ssl fails on cpantesters now
08:42 sri tempire: operating system?
08:42 purl operating system is generally only as good as the people who use it.
08:42 marcus PerlNinja: but sequel is faster to say...
08:43 PerlNinja :P
08:43 sri i have no problem with disabling tls tests again though
08:44 sri IO::Socket::SSL breaks so often it's was a risky decision anyway
08:45 sri s/'s//
08:47 sri http://img.imgur.com/yvtdc.png # eeep
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09:00 perlrocks Twitter: "Damn! # Mojolicious - a colossus with feet of clay Mojo:: Base does not inherit from several parents. 21 in the yard, and I'll monkey-patch" (ru) --meettya http://twitter.com/meettya​/status/68239016994160640
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09:13 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/pull/142 # any opinions about this pull request?
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09:17 marcus I like it
09:17 * crab looks
09:17 marcus meettya's tweets confuse and confound me
09:18 crab sri: seems ok
09:21 toebu I try to  implement a proxy server within my mojolicious app and used http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/MRAMBERG/Mojoliciou​s-Plugin-Proxy-0.2/lib/Mojolicious/Plugin/Proxy.pm as a model ... it works, but Mojo is not happy and spews DEPRECATED warnings ... what is the latest word on implementing a proxy ?
09:22 sri i thought marcus updated that already
09:22 marcus I thought so too
09:23 marcus 0.3    2011-01-14 12:02:00
09:23 marcus guess it never reached cpan
09:23 sri :o
09:23 toebu marcus: any other accessible place is fine :)
09:25 toebu https://github.com/marcusramb​erg/Mojolicious-Plugin-Proxy
09:26 toebu marcus: thanks
09:27 marcus it doesn't actually fix the warnings tho
09:27 toebu you are still using client
09:27 marcus yeah, will fix it now
09:27 toebu shivers in anticipation
09:28 perlrocks Twitter: "@ Meettya Multiple inheritance in the XX1 Century? I have a # Mojolicious too many claims, but not in this context." (ru) --vtivti http://twitter.com/vtivti/status/68246198896701440
09:29 marcus [master c59d0a5] switch to UA
09:32 toebu marcus: what is the purpose of explicitly loading Mojo::UserAgent ? and in the same time NOT loading Mojo::URL ?
09:33 marcus toebu: there's no purpose to it
09:34 marcus [master 2d66a66] Removed useless use
09:34 marcus POSTing upload for Mojolicious-Plugin-Proxy-0.3.tar.gz
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09:36 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin 0.3 for Proxy MRAMBERG - http://frepan.org/ ~ mramberg/Mojolicious-Plugin-Proxy-0.3 /" (af) --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/68248015273594880
09:36 toebu in the log the server notes that it is waiting for a delayed response (which is, I guess due to the async proxy call) should it get some info on the fact that we are working on the it ?
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10:26 sri toebu: it's just a debug warning, if the response gets served async everything is fine
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10:27 GitHub77 mojo: master Breno G. de Oliveira * a3818e7 (1 files in 1 dirs): noting potential risks when using 5.8
10:27 GitHub77 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 3e58bf4 (1 files in 1 dirs): Merge pull request #142 from garu/patch-1 ...
10:27 GitHub77 mojo: master commits b6c497f...3e58bf4 - http://bit.ly/kcCWng
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10:27 sri green-button++
10:28 crab "but... but... it should only display the warning if the response isn't going to be rendered later!"
10:35 sri ?
10:36 crab sri: just kidding.
10:37 sri you forgot the smiley and the sarcasm tag!
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10:39 GitHub14 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * bb45f6f (5 files in 3 dirs): disable TLS tests by default, because IO::Socket::SSL is broken most of the time - http://bit.ly/iKiphU
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10:40 sri tempire: that should take care of the failed install ;p
10:40 sri was very naive to enable them by default anyway
10:53 crab well, there's an IO::Socket::SSL 1.43, works for me
10:54 sri for me too, gonna bump the version requirement again
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10:56 GitHub77 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 56d17b1 (6 files in 4 dirs): updated IO::Socket::SSL requirement to 1.43 due to bugs in older versions - http://bit.ly/iguC5j
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10:57 sri i'm sure there will be complaints too ;p
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11:04 GitHub34 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 3889e29 (1 files in 1 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/ittuoz
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11:12 perlrocks Twitter: "TLS support is causing trouble in #mojolicious again, taking some more drastic measures now. http://t.co/57Pm76z http://t.co/Wzmy2dY #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/68272175035072512
11:21 sri it's kind of ironic
11:21 sri most problems are still caused by 3rd party modules, and yet we have a bad reputation for not using enough
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11:26 PerlNinja sri, and if you use that to argue the point that not using 3rd party modules = good idea, then you get told that "well you can always just patch the 3rd party module or just include it in your own distribution" :P I'm going to give up trying to argue that point with people I think, too many of them just don't want to see past that big lead plate in front of their heads
11:27 sri fracking idealists
11:28 crab less idealing, more stabbing.
11:28 crab that's what we need.
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11:37 crab when i first decided to use mojo, i liked that it didn't have any external dependencies. later, i felt for a while that it *should* use some other modules for some things. but i grew out of it, and now i'm back to being happy.
11:38 sri yea, i guess it takes some time
11:46 crab the only module i might still consider using is AnyEvent, for two reasons: (a) compatibility with other anyevent-using things, and (b) because it's such a pain to debug event loop problems on different platforms etc.
11:46 crab but the more time passes and the more stable mojo's ioloop becomes, the less reason there is to care
11:47 crab i should look at that anyevent wrapper thingy sometime. i'd so like to be able to use AnyEvent::XMPP from my mojo apps.
11:48 sri just start by running event loops parallel
11:50 crab hmm. wonder how to go about that.
11:55 toebu crab: to cut down on debug messages it would be cool if the server would somehow take note of the fact that I told the controler 'render_later'
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11:57 sri toebu: the log message comes from a lower level atm. which has no concept of rendering
11:58 crab toebu: yes, i agree with you
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12:05 GitHub146 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 56f8a16 (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed render_later to prevent delayed rendering warning - http://bit.ly/k5th3M
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12:05 sri there ya go
12:05 sri not like anyone would expect conveninece log messages on the Mojo layer anyway :)
12:06 toebu thanks!
12:07 sri yw
12:07 crab man, sri, you're such an oppressive and unyielding dictator! :-)
12:08 * sri cracks the whip
12:08 sri don't you dare harm my bad reputation
12:12 toebu another question ... I am writing this app where some of the content is coming in via proxy (see above) the proxy should NOT just ship out whatever it is asked for, each url should be 'authenticated' the way I intend to implemnt this, is to prepend a hash value to each url I am happy for the client to request ... the hash would be build from the current user, the mojo secret and the actual url ... in that way the proxy can easily figure if it
12:12 toebu should heed the request or not .... or am I missing an obvious solution ?
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12:14 sri you lost me after "question"
12:14 toebu grin
12:15 crab your app has a proxy that clients query directly? but you want it to access only certain urls?
12:16 toebu yes ... /proxy/(:hash)/(*path) returns the content of http://other.host/$path if $hash computes
12:16 crab seems fine
12:17 toebu I even would like to replace some of the response contenten with more authenticated urls using Mojo::DOM ...
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12:32 crab makes sense
12:32 purl makes sense is, like, http://xrl.us/bjq3kq
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12:42 toebu trying to replace href values in $res -> https://gist.github.com/966382 the sub gets called but the action seems to have no effect ...
12:44 garu sri: thanks for acceppting the patch =)
12:45 garu since you beat me to writing that other one, I had to add *something* =P
12:46 sri garu++
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13:13 sri aww, no 5.14 today
13:23 sri guess i'll release mojolicious 1.32 later
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13:27 GitHub145 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * eeb88fb (1 files in 1 dirs): release preparations - http://bit.ly/kZxJJk
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13:30 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 1.32 by KRAIH - http://frepan.org/~kraih/Mojolicious-1.32/" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/68306946234658816
13:31 perlrocks Twitter: "Released #mojolicious 1.32 with 5121 unit tests that should pass pretty much everywhere now. :) http://t.co/s7kSbkJ #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/68307311164276737
13:33 PerlNinja sri++, other contributors++, mojolicious++ :D rawr. upgrade time
13:43 sri \o/
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13:58 sri heh, if i unwatch rakudo we would pass it again ;p
14:01 PerlNinja do eeet
14:11 sri naah, that's not how we roll
14:15 perlrocks Twitter: "Though I think of the purpose Mojolicious anxious to use it" (ja) --transpher http://twitter.com/transphe​r/status/68318291906674688
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14:21 perlrocks Twitter: "@kraih does #mojolicious actually need TLS? Can't that be a job for a reverse proxy like nginx?" --hovenko http://twitter.com/hovenko​/status/68319816053817344
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14:23 stephan48 urgs...
14:23 stephan48 and whats with the client? or if you just want to deploy a mojo based deamon to securely present some infos?
14:24 sri yea, user agent needs it
14:25 sri server side support is mostly for testing and quick hacks
14:25 stephan48 ye
14:26 stephan48 but still... please keep it
14:26 sri don't worry, it's going nowhere
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14:27 sri considering how many webapp apis depend on https, a pure http user agent would be quite useless
14:27 stephan48 ye
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14:29 toebu any hints on how to use Mojo::DOM for modifying node attributes ? my attemts with find('a[href]')->each(sub{s​hift->attrs({href=>'x'})}); don't seem to succeed at least to_xml does not reflect any changes
14:29 sri the pod renderer does it very successfully
14:30 sri attrs takes a hashref?
14:30 toebu my $values = ref $_[0] ? $_[0] : {@_};
14:31 perlrocks Twitter: "@hovenko When we say #mojolicious is a "web framework", we really mean it. :) http://t.co/oaAkcqL" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/68322422247522305
14:33 sri toebu: code seems fine then
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14:34 toebu I found the problem ...
14:35 toebu I was assuming that I could do $res->dom->find()->each(); and see the result in $res->dom ...
14:35 sri ah
14:35 sri use the return value of each()
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14:36 toebu ok ...
14:37 toebu my $new_dom = $res->dom('a[href]')->each(...)​;$res->body($new_dom->to_xml);
14:38 toebu $res->body($res->dom('a[hr​ef]')->each(...)->to_xml);
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15:51 tempire sri: leopard
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15:52 sri tempire: i see, had a similar fail on cpantesters
15:53 sri tests are deactivated now though
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15:54 tempire dernit
15:54 tempire io::socket::ssl 1.43 still fails
15:54 * tempire is sad
15:54 sri fails to install?
15:55 tempire yeah
15:55 sri :(
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16:04 crab tempire: what is the problem?
16:07 tempire t/nonblock.t in io::socket::ssl
16:08 tempire strange, though.  sometimes tests pass.
16:11 sri interesting
16:12 sri i bet it is related to our test fails
16:13 tempire nonblock.t passes with prove
16:13 tempire fails with make test
16:13 tempire oO
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16:28 crab hassath
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16:37 sri marcus: x28! :D
16:37 metaperl I am age 42 today
16:37 metaperl what does "x28!" mean?
16:38 sri tiny wings level
16:38 sri we were both stuck at x26
16:39 metaperl oh. I left the iphone for android.
17:00 tempire today, I have abandoned the corporate world.
17:00 * tempire waves goodbye
17:00 tempire jobs are for suckers
17:01 * tempire waits for mojo odm
17:02 metaperl tempire i notice you are in tampa
17:02 metaperl I'm in Fort Lauderdale
17:02 metaperl I once worked in Ybor City
17:02 metaperl for utekcorp.com
17:06 crab tempire: odm?
17:06 purl odm is interesting.
17:06 tempire object document model
17:06 tempire orm for document stores
17:06 tempire key/value stores
17:06 tempire etc
17:07 metaperl purl odm is object document model,  orm for document stores
17:07 purl ...but odm is interesting....
17:07 * tempire kisses perl
17:07 tempire doh
17:07 * tempire kisses purl
17:07 * purl swoons!
17:12 crab tempire: you quit your job?
17:12 tempire yep
17:12 sri tempire: actually it's object document mapper
17:12 tempire er
17:12 tempire yeah, that's what I meant
18:02 alnewkirk hi friends, take a moment please - http://poll.fm/2zzid
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18:51 crab alnewkirk: is that a mouse on your head in the picture?
18:52 crab well, assuming it's a picture of you
18:52 alnewkirk no :)
18:52 alnewkirk no sunglasses
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18:59 tempire who's going to yapc::na?
18:59 purl See "going to YAPC::NA $year"
18:59 tempire me!
19:00 * tempire dances
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19:58 sri crab: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/​wiki/Mojolicious-and-anyevent
19:59 sri that should make experimenting a lot easier
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20:26 sri and updated to work with hypnotoad :)
20:32 perlrocks Twitter: "Connecting the native #mojolicious event loop with AnyEvent is really simple, here's a recipe. :) http://t.co/WJ5uzCP #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/68413099153170433
20:34 metaperl ./start.pl daemon --reload is hanging our server upon bootup ... is there a more standard way of backgrounding a server I want to start upon bootup other than putting an ampersand at the end?
20:34 sri umm
20:34 sri you should not be using the development server in production
20:34 sri standard would be hypnotoad
20:35 yko metaperl: i don't think --reload is related to backgrounding
20:35 sri yea, and --reload is very very very bad
20:35 yko sir: don't remove that option please :D
20:35 sri (for that use case)
20:35 yko yeah
20:36 yko metaperl: i'm usually use start-stop scripts for that purposes
20:36 sri and what yko said
20:36 yko so your app behaves just as system service and everything goes ok
20:37 yko there was project related to init scripts generation by nuclon: http://search.cpan.org/~nuclon/Mojo​-Command-Generate-InitScript-0.03/
20:38 sri wow, that's very very outdated
20:38 yko very
20:39 sri someone should just post some init scripts on the wiki *hint hint*
20:39 metaperl sri - the mojo server is serving an app that will have one use at a time, with about 8 total uses per day
20:39 metaperl i know nothing about hypnotoad
20:40 sri ok, then the server doesn't matter much
20:40 sri your only problem is init scripts then
20:40 metaperl I just followed Mojolicious::Tutorial and got what I needed
20:40 yko metaperl: target system?
20:40 yko OS i mean
20:41 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojol​icious/Guides/Cookbook#Hypnotoad # that would be hypnotoad
20:41 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojo/Server/Hypnotoad
20:41 tempire bah
20:42 tempire This is all the documentation you'll ever need: http://r33b.net/
20:42 sri !!!
20:42 yko ahaha
20:42 sri i don't think.... ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!
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20:48 roman Hello, I am just starting with Mojolicious::Lite, I am getting a little stuck, I have created a bunch of routes using get.  I would like to (in catalyst speak) 'forward' to another action, I saw redirect_to() which seems to work, but it does by generating a 302 and has the browser make another GET.  Is there a mechanism for forwarding to another action within an application without doing a 302?
20:48 sri roman: hi, nope
20:49 roman sri: ok, that has answered that question for me :)
20:50 sri imo internal forwarding encourages bad design
20:50 sri with mojolicious i wanted to encourage clean RESTful applications instead
20:51 roman sri: I think I agree with you.  I just need to change my thought process a little bit
20:52 moritz that's one thing I don't like about Mojolicious: it tries to imposition a certain style on its users
20:53 moritz tools should be things that allow me to do what I want, even if what I want is "bad"
20:53 sri well, you could build your own internal forwarding if you really really wanted
20:54 yko moritz: i don't think sri thinks so :D
20:54 sri we just don't encourage it out of the box
20:54 moritz sri: I know; and I don't complain about that particular missing feature
20:54 moritz sri: it's more about the attitude in general
20:54 sri mojolicious is opinionated software, that is true, and very intended :)
20:55 miyagawa i prefer opinionated software
20:55 metaperl yko - the mojo app runs on both windows and linux
20:55 miyagawa rather than one-size fits all software with 100s of configuration options
20:55 yko metaperl: that's makes things harder
20:56 yko s/'s// # how do you speak that language?! -_-
20:56 moritz miyagawa: I love cpanm, and I don't get the impression that it's "opinionated" - it doesn't try to discourage me from installing certain modules, for example.
20:56 moritz it just does what it can to install them
20:56 miyagawa it is opinionated - it didn't support Bundle:: until very recently
20:56 miyagawa it didn't support installing from local mirror until a few months ago
20:57 miyagawa because i thought i didn't need it
20:57 moritz to me that sounds more like priorities and less like opinions
20:57 miyagawa many people liked an option to set for the cache size
20:58 moritz but maybe I'm making up a fine distinction just to defend my point :-)
20:58 miyagawa yeah :)
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20:59 sri moritz: have you tried catalyst?
20:59 moritz sri: yes
20:59 sri it is the opposite of mojolicious
20:59 moritz it makes you understand too many concepts before you can get any useful work done with it
21:00 sri exactly
21:00 metaperl """it makes you understand too many concepts before you can get any useful work done with it""" - that is the honest-to-god truth  .... Args(0) Chained , etc
21:00 metaperl the routing of modules to packages
21:00 metaperl all sorts of magic
21:01 moritz and it makes you manipulate too many packages in too many files for a beginner to grok
21:01 metaperl but there is one good thing. Perl has very few web frameworks... compare with Python where a new one pops up every week or two
21:01 moritz I don't know if the lesson is that a less opinionated framework can't be as easy to use
21:01 metaperl there are only 2 or 3 contenders in Perl
21:02 * moritz counts 3.5
21:02 tempire continuity, catalyst, mojolicious, dancer, titanium
21:02 sri that's the lesson
21:02 miyagawa only 2 or 3 web frameworks in perl? can hardly say that
21:02 moritz sri: I'm still not convinced that it has to be that way
21:03 sri there are many you just never heard of
21:03 moritz sri: but maybe it's just because I've never tried to write one :-)
21:03 tempire moritz: that's an opinion.  you should write a framework.
21:03 tempire ;)
21:03 sri the japanese guys make a new one every other week :)
21:03 miyagawa i encourage people to write a new framework
21:03 miyagawa :)
21:03 miyagawa because there are many building blocks out there
21:03 sri everybody should try it at least once
21:04 moritz tempire: I never felt the urge to write a web frame work. Which is quite odd, because I felt the urge to write nearly everything else myself :-)
21:04 tempire I'm going to try my hand at it.  After I master lisp and erlang.
21:04 moritz (OS, compiler, programming language, browser, ...)
21:04 tempire and then I will reprogram sri using concurrent programming structures
21:05 sri template engines are also a great experience
21:05 tempire and then, the world.
21:05 purl then, the world is the mollusc of pdcawley's choice.
21:05 sri \o/
21:05 * sri wants to be implemented with actors
21:05 moritz sri: I've written on of those, actually
21:05 moritz (template engine, that is)
21:05 tempire I like weblocks view on template engines.
21:06 moritz or more accurately a static website generator, which kinda needed some sort of minimalistic template thingy
21:06 tempire it treats html & javascript as a serialized output format
21:06 tempire and any customization is to be done with css
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21:07 miyagawa Real perl programmers should have written (or at least attempted to write) one web framework, template engine and ORM.
21:08 tempire in vim.
21:08 miyagawa oh, and an accessor generator.
21:08 yko in perl!
21:08 yko i don't really think writing web framework in vim is a good idea
21:09 * tempire sets yko on fire
21:09 metaperl lol
21:09 tempire as we were saying
21:10 * yko suddenly remember that he should update mojo.vim somehow
21:11 tempire yko: you should include auto-complete support for mojo objects
21:13 yko actually i already did that :p
21:14 yko just didn't push
21:14 tempire well git on it
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21:19 nuba heh, my *first* perl app was a CMS which sucked a lot, back then it seemed rolling my own stuff was a smart move. i was young, and dumb. not young anymore. but still dump :D
21:19 nuba "i was young and needed the money" <- that led me to perl ;)
21:20 metaperl I was in grad school analyzing data in Perl when a recruiter emailed me, offering a job doing the same things I was doing for 1200/month for 1200/week...
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21:33 * metaperl looks into websockets
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21:53 sri http://mdv.googlecode.com/svn​/trunk/docs/design_intro.html # oh my, google is working on some fun stuff
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21:55 metaperl it looks like an attempt to turn CTemplate into a standard
21:55 sri ye
21:55 metaperl Google should throw in the towel on that. JQuery rules
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22:05 yko tempire: https://github.com/yko/mojo.vim
22:05 yko any ideas about new snippets or improvements of existing are highly welcome
22:05 yko as well as patches
22:06 metaperl M-x shell-command RET rm -rf mojo.vim
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22:17 yko hmm. looks like nice improvement but i think it puts too much in dependencies
22:18 yko btw, does emacs word has any epl-syntax highlights yet?
22:20 metaperl emacs _word_ ... I dont know what that is. epl i guess Is 'embperl' ?
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22:26 yko yes, sorry. i was thinking about my own. world for sure. and .ep or Embedded Perl or syntax provided by Mojolicious::Plugin::EpRenderer
22:28 metaperl_ oh I see. no, I dont know if there is such a mode
22:40 metaperl_ well time to head off to the world of Zen Meditation
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23:38 tempire autocomplete!
23:38 purl rumour has it autocomplete is league with stimp's devil spunk yogurt or dangerous in the hands of a drunk idiot
23:38 tempire yko+++
23:46 tempire hmm
23:46 tempire yko: do snippets not work with mlite?
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