Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-05-17

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:48 supernaut Hey, I installed Mojolicious from the perl-exper. overlay (I'm using Gentoo) and when I launch a simple mojo app I just get a message saying "this app hasn't been unpacked yet"... What's the problem? :S should I abandon the ebuild method?
02:51 perlrocks Twitter: "[From_greader] [from_plagger] / Mojolicious and simultaneous use AnyEvent / Mojolicious Tips - Getting Started with Perl code samples http://htn.to/9zswGs" (ja) --kshimo69 http://twitter.com/kshimo6​9/status/70320395865161729
02:58 perlrocks Twitter: "Secunia Security Advisory - Fedora has issued an update for perl-Mojolicious. This fixes two vulnerabilities, wh... http://bit.ly/l0bVol" --Exploit_This http://twitter.com/Exploit_T​his/status/70322196727341056
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03:49 perlrocks Twitter: "Basic framework for Molded 5, the next version of my very own CMS, is up and running for the first time tonight. Stoked! #perlrocks!" --jgeerdes http://twitter.com/jgeerde​s/status/70335014050594816
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08:35 crab moo.
08:51 moritz se
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09:30 * sri yawns
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09:51 metaperl once again, the kitchen sink approach succeeds
09:54 metaperl sri does ->get() return a Mojo::Response object - http://search.cpan.org/~kraih/Mojoli​cious-1.32/lib/Mojo/UserAgent.pm#get
09:55 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojo/UserAgent#get
09:56 sri where did a kitchen sink win?
09:58 metaperl Mojo is a kitchen sink - everything included, templating, useragents, web servers...
09:58 sri not sure i agree, we are actually rather picky about what to include
09:58 metaperl oh I guess the CPAN docs are for an earlier version?  http://search.cpan.org/~kraih/Mojoli​cious-1.32/lib/Mojo/UserAgent.pm#get
09:59 sri we never add something just because we can
09:59 sri but then again one could argue that the whole web is a kitchen sink approach
09:59 sri especially html5 browsers
10:00 metaperl the thing that bothers me is this:  $ua->get($news)->res->dom('h3 > a.story-title')->each(sub {
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10:00 metaperl I would've expected that to be ->res->dom->find('h3 > a.story-title')->each()
10:01 sri that works too
10:01 metaperl oh
10:01 sri dom(...) is just a shortcut we added mostly for oneliners
10:01 sri by popular demand
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10:01 sri often used in perl -Mojo oneliners
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10:03 sri marcus: CAN HAZ PATCH?
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10:07 sri metaperl: think i would call mojolicious a batteries included approach to web development (or simply opinionated software)
10:08 dolmen How to run this Mojo app under PSGI (Twiggy) ?
10:09 sri see cookbook
10:09 dolmen http://paste.scsys.co.uk/104981
10:09 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojoli​cious/Guides/Cookbook#PSGI2FPlack
10:10 dolmen the cookbook says nothing about Twiggy
10:10 dolmen and Mojo send a message saying "that environment is detected..." on the console
10:11 dolmen but it looks like it doesn't
10:11 * dolmen will be back later
10:15 crab dolmen: i think you'll have to explain your problem better if you want help
10:16 supernaut What is the correct way to install Mojo on Gentoo? :S
10:16 sri supernaut: what are the options?
10:16 purl the options are ignore or violent stuff that might put you in jail
10:17 supernaut sri: I can install from cpan using the gentoo specific g-cpan.
10:17 supernaut I tried that, it worked. But when I start a simple project it keeps showing me a 404 page saying it needs to b unboxed.
10:17 sri sounds good enough
10:17 sri that 404 is also the welcome screen :)
10:18 supernaut Like this: http://underrun.org:3000/
10:18 sri works flawless
10:18 supernaut Oh I see.
10:18 supernaut How do I get templates to work? >.<
10:18 sri just work your way through the documentation and you'll be fine :)
10:18 supernaut The server keeps telling me about missing files for templates.
10:19 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojolicious/Lite
10:19 sri the tutorial is the best start
10:20 supernaut Ah.
10:20 supernaut :P
10:20 * supernaut feels stupid >.>
10:22 metaperl mine still complains about 2 missing files all the time... I have the cpan build  from about 2 weeks ago
10:22 metaperl 2 missing templates
10:22 moritz which templates?
10:22 purl which templates are read to form the page
10:22 metaperl i think a not-found.ep or something
10:22 moritz if you get a 404, it will try a not_found.html.ep
10:23 moritz well, either supply it, or it uses the default
10:23 metaperl yeah, but instead it can never find it... i never supplied it
10:23 moritz does it show you the "this page has not been unboxed yet" page?
10:24 moritz if you enter a non-existing URL, that is
10:24 sri it's just a debug message, if it was really complaining it would be an error ;)
10:24 * moritz finds it very useful
10:24 metaperl the page is being served via a javascript POST, so I cant actually see the page it is returning. it's just when there is a problem it looks for a couple of .ep files and doesnt find them
10:25 sri which is perfectly fine
10:25 sri those messages are just diagnostics output to help you debugging
10:26 sri that's why we have the debug message class, important stuff would always be classified as error
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11:08 dolmen I wrote my first Mojolicious app : http://paste.scsys.co.uk/104981
11:08 dolmen I run it fine with : twiggy --listen 0.0.0.0:8078 box/lib/Box/Web/Mojo.pm
11:09 dolmen however it fails to run in my Twiggy embedded in my AnyEvent application
11:11 dolmen here is the failure: Mojo prints an usage message on the console
11:11 dolmen it looks like it did not detect it is running in a PSGI environment
11:11 sri the explanation is in the documentation i linked to earlier
11:12 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojoli​cious/Guides/Cookbook#PSGI2FPlack
11:16 dolmen what is the "application home directory"? My application is a single file
11:24 dolmen ok, the trick was to set $ENV{PLACK_ENV} = 'production'
11:29 dolmen sorry for the noise
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12:05 sri tempire: any progress on the template patch?
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12:11 yko just brutforced one of my forgotten account passwords on web via perl -Mojo -e 'f(..., {login => "yko", password => $_}) for @ARGV'
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12:12 yko 100 of users online reached! hooray!
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12:12 sri 101 :)
12:12 yko yeah!
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12:21 perlrocks Twitter: "the first flowers to upgrade to # perl 5.14: - bundle as a whole and not going to - in ExtUtil bug - and # mojolicious too: (" (ru) --meettya http://twitter.com/meettya​/status/70463891024515072
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12:32 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/146 # i don't get this issue
12:33 dolmen why are so many modules loaded by a so simple webapp?
12:33 sri why not?
12:33 dolmen why Mojolicious loads File::Copy
12:34 sri why are you reporting it as a issue?
12:34 sri *+n
12:34 * dolmen is writing a webapp for an embeddede environment
12:34 dolmen because I hope someone will fix it
12:34 sri there is nothing to fix
12:34 dolmen (that someone could be me)
12:35 sri if your environment has that heavy resource restrictions you might want to use C
12:37 dolmen it should be possible to load modules on demand: replace 'use' with localised 'require'
12:38 sri and break copy on write for all common deployment scenarios?
12:39 dolmen break copy on write?
12:40 sri yes
12:40 yko .oO( looks like File::Copy is used only in Asset::File::move_to(). maybe lazy loading... )
12:40 sri yko: copy on write
12:40 purl somebody said copy on write was not copying values before it is absolutely necessary.
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12:41 sri http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy-on-write
12:41 dolmen I don't understand what copy on write has to do with lazy loading
12:42 dolmen oh, you mean it could break inlining...
12:42 dolmen s/could/would/
12:45 sri quite sure the whole discussion has been on the mailing list before
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12:46 sri our main deployment platform is a preforking perl web server that loads the application before forking
12:49 sri personally i would never deploy a single process server
12:50 sri something always leaks in a real world app and you end up with a total mess at some point
12:51 dolmen personally my webapp will be deployed embeded in an AnyEvent-based daemon on an ARM platform with 128 Mb of RAM for the whole system
12:52 dolmen the webapp is not the core of the application, so I can not take 90% of the RAM just for that part
12:52 sri i would use C then
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12:55 sri damn, my cellphone has 512mb ram :)
12:56 dolmen So I will use a lighter framework or bare PSGI...
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12:57 sri sure, just watch out for leaks... because they happen
12:58 dolmen of course, that's the main thing we are checking as our platform has to works for days/months
12:59 sri ok, sounds like you don't need the agility of a high level framework anyway then
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12:59 dolmen well, I need the agility, but not all the features to be in memory at startup
13:00 sri doubt you could save more than 3 or 4mb anyway
13:01 sri a real app with database interaction uses about 19mb in the manager process and 10mb in each worker atm (with in memory template caching)
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13:02 dolmen I don't have a database: all the data is in-process
13:03 sri that costs memory too
13:04 sri just out of interest, how low would base memory usage have to be for your use case?
13:06 dolmen the application uses 84 Mo at startup on amd64, 18 Mo on ARM with only the core application, Twiggy and a hello-world PSGI app
13:09 dolmen with Mojolicious it grows to 103 Mo on amd64
13:09 sri ok, whats the mojolicious overhead and how much do you need to remove?
13:09 sri and whats Mo?
13:09 purl well, Mo is Missouri or MIZZOU or a meta object protocol for perl, at http://nothingmuch.woobling.org/MO/
13:10 dolmen Mo is megabyte
13:10 dolmen Megaoctet
13:11 dolmen the question is not how much I have to remove, but which framework will give me the right balance between flexibility and weight
13:12 dolmen purl: Mo is also megabyte in french (mega-octet)
13:12 purl okay, dolmen.
13:13 sri that's rather subjective
13:14 dolmen of course
13:14 dolmen I'm the only judge ;)
13:19 sri memory usage of the different mojolicious layers btw is 8mb for basic event loop server, 14mb for Mojo, and 17mb for Mojolicious
13:19 sri so even with on demand loading my 3mb figure from earlier was maybe a bit too optimistic
13:19 sri you won't shape off much
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13:25 Akron However someone can build a lot of nice stuff with only relying on Mojo.
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15:29 crab if i have URL /x which redirects to /y, can i write a test that checks that (a) /x redirects to /y with some given message, and (b) the redirected-to /x then displays some other message.
15:29 crab s/.$/?/
15:30 metaperl s/.$/\?/
15:30 metaperl :)
15:30 crab that is not needed.
15:31 metaperl oh I guess literal question mark would work
15:31 crab anyway, the answer is: max_redirects is 0 by default, so just go ahead and request the redirected-to URL and see if it shows $whatever
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16:21 sri crab: that's the easiest
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16:22 sri there is also a secret most people don't know
16:22 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc​?Mojo/Transaction#previous
16:22 sri we keep redirected transactions around
16:23 sri perl -Mojo -E'say Mojo::UserAgent->new(max_redirects => 3)->get("http://google.com")->previous->res->body'
16:24 * marty thinks mojo one-liners are the bomb
16:24 sri =)
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16:39 elb0w Mojoricious
16:39 elb0w Still think you need a japanese port
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18:06 sri hmm, i would still like it if someone could profile and micro optimize mojolicious a bit
18:06 sri wonder how to interest someone in the task
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19:15 tempire sri: I assumed you had more to say regarding the template thing.
19:15 tempire but I guess not
19:15 sri tempire: not really, what would you like to hear? :)
19:16 tempire I'll take a look.  I think it makes sense to have the podrenderer template separated as well.
19:17 sri that would be trivial once the mechanism for the controller ones is in place
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19:41 sri phew... discovered another series to watch while all the good shows are on vacation
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19:44 * sri wonders since when CGI.pm requires FCGI.pm
19:44 sri that seems rather crazy
19:54 elb0w Game of thrones?
19:54 purl rumour has it Game of thrones is starting on hbo this weekend, btw, as if anyone interested needed a reminder
19:54 sri naah, already watched it, and the first season ends soon
19:55 elb0w its only on the 6th episode
19:55 sri just 4 more to go
19:55 elb0w waaaat
19:55 sri then next year season 2 or so :S
19:55 elb0w sri: you do nice gfx, how much to make me something for elbowrage.com
19:55 elb0w I dont care what
19:56 sri sorry, not a professional designer
19:56 elb0w I dont want anything crazy :(
19:56 elb0w like 1 img
19:57 elb0w :(
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19:59 sri wow, january 2012 catalyst will require perl 5.10+
19:59 sri \o/
20:00 marty I wonder if they will get as much grief as you did?  :P
20:01 sri haha
20:01 marty I still am amazed at the backlash to requiring 5.10
20:02 sri not just you
20:03 sri the announcement is a bit sneaky
20:04 sri maybe they try to do it silently
20:06 marty ya, they prolly witnessed your pain and decided to duck for cover.  :)
20:06 marty you could always beat them to the punch.  Make mojolicous require 5.10 on 12/31   :P
20:07 sri naah, this time i wait a few days longer so they can take the heat ;p
20:08 jfuller Actually, that whole deprecation thing was great to me. I made this big dramatic presentation to management. And now, we're migrating to 5.10 the last week in June
20:08 sri \o/
20:08 elb0w sri you know you want to make a trex/unicorn with giant elbows
20:10 sri that poor t-rex would fall over
20:11 elb0w I guess ill use the old logo I had
20:11 elb0w :(
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20:20 sri btw. the show is lie to me
20:20 sri it's house with crime
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20:44 tempire I'm sure sri would be willing to create a graphic for the right price
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20:44 tempire 1000 bitcoins
20:44 sri lol
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21:06 marcus sri: I got tired of lie to me pretty quickly
21:07 sri oh
21:07 sri only saw the first episode so far
21:09 sri it's not like i have many alternatives left :S
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21:19 marcus books :p
21:20 * sri faints
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21:35 sri attack of the clones?
21:35 purl attack of the clones is a shitty name though, maybe it'll change or a shitty movie
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22:31 perlrocks Twitter: "@sartak http://t.co/arrOtvf" --marcusramberg http://twitter.com/marcusramb​erg/status/70617558906183680
22:41 perlrocks Twitter: "@sartak I'm pretty sure that says #mojolicious will drop 5.8 as soon as it's less of a competitive disadvantage." --marcusramberg http://twitter.com/marcusramb​erg/status/70619913320005632
22:42 Akron Is there any pureperl RSA lib out there with no dependencies other than core and including keygen?
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22:43 sri wasn't there one on a t-shirt?
22:43 Akron no keygen.
22:43 Akron http://www.cypherspace.org/rsa/pureperl.html
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22:51 perlrocks Twitter: "hmm ... mlyat! # mojo in the transition to # perl 5.14 change in the use BEGIN {require v5.14}; like all the features in this work" (ru) --meettya http://twitter.com/meettya​/status/70622434545508353
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23:35 * tempire is generating bitcoins
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