Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-06-03

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:38 metaperl is there a way to get a stack backtrace for a thrown exception?
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03:09 maluco I can't reproduce the websocket chat - https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Writi​ng-websocket-chat-using-Mojolicious-Lite
03:09 maluco this script, work with the last version ?
03:10 maluco i try with chrome, safari, firefox, js, jquery, ..
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03:37 maluco cpanm Mojolicious-1.4
03:37 maluco #   Failed test 'content is similar'
03:37 maluco #   at t/mojolicious/lite_app.t line 976.
03:37 maluco #                   'http://localhost:10932/0-192.168.1.247-0'
03:37 maluco #     doesn't match '(?-xism:http\://localhost​\:\d+/0\-127\.0\.0\.1\-0)'
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07:25 GitHub16 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 9451dec (4 files in 3 dirs): fixed param list bug in Mojolicious::Controller - http://bit.ly/iAWz3k
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07:32 sri maluco: please don't ever paste into the channel
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07:40 perlrocks Twitter: "I see, Mojolicious Dekirujan if daemon-ize it. I already got brains dotcloud supposed to." (ja) --xerespm http://twitter.com/xerespm​/status/76553863741702144
07:41 sri i will miss translations
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08:51 marcus sri: switch to bing's api?
08:51 sri would have to sign up for a microsoft api key and stuff
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08:53 marcus oh.
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09:21 perlrocks Twitter: "@ Sharifulin Much easier - I have updated # mojolicious and it worked." (ru) --shoorick77 http://twitter.com/shoorick​77/status/76579321212448768
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09:51 sri \o
09:51 sri o/
09:51 sri \o/
09:52 sri any other 1.4 bugs that need to be fixed?
09:52 moritz lib/Justdoit.pm is missing :-)
09:54 sri oh noes
09:56 sri http://www.cpantesters.org​/distro/M/Mojolicious.html # looks like the overload thing affects many versions
09:57 sri not sure if i should push a 1.41 release today or wait a bit to see how many of our users are on < 5.12
10:00 moritz what's the overload change? that MOJO::Dom stringifies?
10:00 sri much more complicated
10:01 sri in fact, i don't understand it completely
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10:01 sri yko was digging into overload internals to grok it
10:02 sri but it had something to do with the '%{}' overload and fallback
10:05 sri suppose a quick bugfix release will be better
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10:06 GitHub165 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 3adf8b3 (1 files in 1 dirs): release preparation - http://bit.ly/kwnxcG
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10:07 sri and tagged
10:12 perlrocks Twitter: "Released #mojolicious 1.41 with a few bugfixes for test failures on #perl 5.8 and 5.10. http://t.co/f9JVWEK" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/76592204222697472
10:13 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 1.41 by KRAIH - http://frepan.org/~kraih/Mojolicious-1.41/" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/76592400449028096
10:15 metaperl If LWP is a part of Perl, then this one-liner ( http://search.cpan.org/~kraih/Mojolicious-1.​34/lib/Mojolicious/Guides/FAQ.pod#Whats_the_​easiest_way_to_install_Mojolicious_on_UNIX? ) might be replaced with something that works on windows (and unix) out of the box?
10:16 sri LWP part of perl?
10:16 metaperl it's not core? I didnt know
10:16 sri it never was
10:16 metaperl ok
10:17 sri the thing about using curl in oneliners is that most people just know what it does and can replace it with whatever does the same on their platform
10:19 metaperl I have a layout file ( http://pastebin.com/8pj8uVS7 ) that every so often throws the error Global symbol "$title" requires explicit package name at template "layouts/cam.html.ep" line 6, near "".
10:20 sri perhaps you should make sure it always exists
10:20 metaperl Yes, in each template file
10:21 sri we also have a title helper btw
10:21 metaperl oh wait
10:21 metaperl Mojo put a not_found.html.ep in my templates directory?
10:21 sri it wouldn't do that
10:22 metaperl There is  afile not_found.html.ep in the template directory... I wonder if my co-worker put that there. And it doesnt have a title arg.
10:23 sri not_found can't have a layout
10:24 sri unless you made your own render_not_found
10:25 sri options are a) you just screwed up or b) i want a test case ;)
10:26 sri i tend towards a atm though, since i really don't see how not_found could ever be rendered with layout
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10:26 sri i suppose a before_render hook could also screw up not_found rendering
10:30 perlrocks Twitter: "[Mojolicious-1.4] 5.8.8 What is no good. Once you can install 5.12.3. t / mojo / dom.t in Operation "eq": no method found that'm. Changes 1.4.1 I'll try not come." (ja) --purasiibo http://twitter.com/purasiib​o/status/76596520740323328
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10:31 GitHub106 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 2455e73 (3 files in 3 dirs): mention that not_found and exception templates can't have layouts - http://bit.ly/ilaDpy
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10:34 sri oh... actually "% layout 'foo';" might even work inside both
10:34 sri but it's not a feature
10:39 sri the problem is obvious, if you screw up your layout everything breaks
10:39 sri wonder if we should actively prevent it
10:39 moritz please don't
10:40 sri why not?
10:40 moritz I want to display error messages in the same layout as the rest of the page
10:40 moritz and simply not screw up the layout
10:40 sri playing with fire
10:40 sri that also has no tests, so migth break at any time
10:41 moritz from a user perspective, error pages without any navigation links, search facilities etc. are not good
10:42 moritz from a programmer perspective, providing all that twice (once in a layout, once for error messages) isn't good either
10:42 sri it's still very risky, because things break
10:43 moritz do you have a better alternative?
10:44 crab i also use layouts in my exception/not_found templates
10:44 sri fully self contained templates for both
10:44 crab but my layouts are simple enough that it hasn't been a problem (i actually have two layouts: default and minimal)
10:44 sri if you two really depend on it i suggest sending test patches
10:45 sri otherwise i promise i will break it at some point in the future ;p
10:45 metaperl I'm having an odd problem with wildcard placeholders. With this route ( http://pastebin.com/r5QKWBht ) , all of the layout files extras (like javascript) get requested relative to /bo instead of /  . I can make the path to the js files absolute but should the path to various static things mentioned relatively change as a function of the request path? I guess that makes sense. Do you typically use absolute paths to your static resourc
10:45 metaperl actually it's not odd
10:45 metaperl that's just sensationalism
10:47 sri how do you generate those static urls?
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10:48 metaperl they are just in the layout file
10:48 sri are they absolute?
10:48 metaperl eg. -   <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/css/webconsole.css" />
10:48 metaperl well
10:48 metaperl they were relative
10:48 metaperl I changed them to absolute
10:48 metaperl is it best practice to make them absolute?
10:48 sri then i suppose you've just discovered how relative urls in html work
10:49 metaperl but when the path is virtual...
10:49 sri this is exactly why we have url generation helpers
10:49 metaperl you mean link_for and url_for?
10:49 sri stylesheet '/css/webconsole.css'
10:50 sri it will take care of all the hard work
10:50 sri even for complicated cgis with base path
10:50 sri welcome to the wonderful world of html :)
10:51 metaperl hmm
10:51 metaperl ok
10:51 sri Mojo::URL actually duplicates HTML semantics for url merging, in case you want to experiment
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10:53 sri portable urls in html are really fucking hard, don't ever try to do it manually
10:55 sri it gets really fun when you have multiple deployments like with CGI under /foo/bar.cgi and maybe reverse proxy under /
10:55 sri then you suddenly have a base path that also needs to be merged in
10:56 sri /foo/bar.cgi/css/baz.css vs /css/baz.css, impossible to get right without helpers
10:57 metaperl sri - I think what you are saying would make a great blog post or faq entry
10:57 sri yea, but it usually makes me so angry that it would quickly turn into a rant -.-
10:58 sri because on top of that you have CGI working different in every single web server
10:58 sri !@#$%^&
10:59 metaperl :)
11:00 sri moritz, crab: i'm waiting for those tests ;p
11:02 sri i don't like however the inconsistency this would cause
11:02 sri a global layout setting for example would not work
11:02 sri just a layout helper call
11:03 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/mas​ter/lib/Mojolicious/Controller.pm#L413
11:03 sri because of this
11:05 sri i can give it a few days, but those points don't get solved layout in not_found and exception are gone
11:05 sri *+if
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11:41 GitHub83 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 18429c3 (4 files in 4 dirs): added a few tests - http://bit.ly/kRL50K
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11:46 moritz sri++ # patching while I was out for lunch
11:46 sri this should show the direction, it does not cover all your cases though
11:46 sri there's also a new can of worms opened now
11:46 sri what if a template sets a layout and dies
11:47 sri the exception template would now use the layout the original template ha set
11:47 sri *+s
11:48 sri that can really get tricky
11:49 sri before all layouts would just be cleared for exceptions
11:50 sri the big question is should global layout settings work for exception and not_found
11:50 sri even with that side effect
11:51 sri hey!
11:51 sri i demand answers!
11:51 * sri pokes moritz and crab
11:52 * moritz can think about it, but can't answer immediately
11:54 sri it gets even more complicated with extends
11:56 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious:: Lite - GitHub http://bit.ly/iO51hO" (ja) --wPerlnews http://twitter.com/wPerlnew​s/status/76618143304396800
12:03 sri wonder if the generate and eval commands should have shorter aliases
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12:03 metaperl how often are they used?
12:03 * metaperl goes to learn about them
12:03 sri like "mojo g lite_app" and "mojo e -v 'app->home'"
12:04 sri generate once or twice per app i suppose
12:04 sri eval more often
12:04 metaperl oh yes I see - http://search.cpan.org/~kraih/Mojoliciou​s-1.34/lib/Mojolicious/Lite.pm#Generator
12:05 sri type "mojo generate"
12:05 sri it gives you an overview
12:05 metaperl I dont see eval in that same document anywhere .... when do you use it? mojo generate has something on eval?
12:06 sri eval is currently experimental
12:06 sri see 1.4 announcement
12:06 metaperl sri I think generate is just fine. Plus, is this just you wondering or have many people asked for it?
12:06 sri just me wondering
12:06 sri because generate is a huge word
12:08 metaperl oh eval is like perl -Msomemodule -e '$perlcode'
12:08 sri not exactly, but similar
12:09 sri it runs in app context
12:09 metaperl people only generate an app once and then develop for several days or weeks
12:09 metaperl so the verbose one is easy to remember
12:11 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc​/Mojolicious/Commands#eval
12:11 sri only documentation is currently there
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12:42 GitHub120 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * e12e24b (5 files in 1 dirs): cleaned up generator command descriptions - http://bit.ly/kgautE
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12:59 metaperl I have a wildcard route like this: "/bo/(*folder)" => sub { ... }  ... and it seems to only trigger for /bo/morestuff instead of just /bo  . How can I have it trigger for both?
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13:01 moritz metaperl: either do a separate route for '/bo', or supply a regex for (*folder) that looks like qr{(?:/.*)?}
13:09 metaperl Ah, that regex is a Route Constraint I believe ( http://search.cpan.org/~kraih/Mojolicious-1.​34/lib/Mojolicious/Lite.pm#Route_Constraints )
13:10 perlrocks Twitter: "I want to Tsukatsu Mojolicious framework to Sebastian Riedel> Mojolicious-1.41 03 Jun 2011 http://search.cpan.org/ ~ kraih/Mojolicious-1.41 /" (ja) --trinityCRZ http://twitter.com/trinityC​RZ/status/76636752055504896
13:10 MisterHatt awesome kanji translation there
13:11 moritz ... of course with that regex you'd have to have '/bo(*folder)' as the route (with the / in the route)
13:13 perlrocks Twitter: "yuki-kimoto / mojolicious-guides-japanese https: / / github.com / yuki-kimoto / mojolicious-guides-japanese / wiki / Mojolicious:: Lite" (ja) --trinityCRZ http://twitter.com/trinityC​RZ/status/76637537199857665
13:13 MisterHatt moritz: could also use waypoints if you really wanted
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13:14 GitHub64 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 8a18121 (1 files in 1 dirs): made perldoc route a bit smarter - http://bit.ly/kypiQO
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13:16 metaperl MisterHatt - from looking at Waypoints ( http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo​licious/Guides/Routing#Waypoints ) I dont see how they figure in
13:17 sri $r->route('/bo/:optional', optional => qr/.*/)->to(optional => undef);
13:17 sri that will compile the right regex
13:18 metaperl sri - that looks like Mojolicious, not M::Lite
13:18 sri every Mojolicious route also works in lite
13:18 metaperl I dont know how to get '$r' in M::Lite
13:18 sri you don;t have to
13:19 MisterHatt metaperl: well it's another way of getting it to work without the second part of the route is all, probably overkill and not the best way to do it
13:19 metaperl sri you mean my starter.pl file has $r exported?
13:19 sri get '/bo/:optional' => [optional => qr/.*/] => {optional => undef}
13:19 sri i mean the features are all there
13:19 sri just look a bit different
13:20 sri this is one of the most complicated cases for routes
13:20 metaperl and the action sub follows that expression you have I take it... and that will work for /bo/ and /bo/morestuff but not /bo correct?
13:21 sri for all 3
13:21 sri thats what makes it so complicated
13:21 metaperl and the action sub follows that expression?
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13:21 sri the {optional => undef} part makes /bo work
13:22 metaperl right. I' m just saying the complete M::Lite expression is ...
13:22 sri it's all in the documentation
13:22 metaperl get '/bo/:optional' => [optional => qr/.*/] => {optional => undef} => sub { ... }
13:22 sri not pretty but works
13:23 moritz get '/bo' => \&yoursub
13:23 metaperl this variation on route syntax for M::Lite is in the docs?
13:23 moritz get '/bo/(*arg)' => \&yoursub;
13:24 moritz not too ugly IMHO
13:24 sri doesn't work for /bo
13:24 sri actually not even /bo/
13:25 sri since (*arg) compiles to .+
13:26 moritz why doesn't it work for /bo, if there's a separate route for /bo ?
13:26 sri ok, then it works of course
13:27 moritz that's why I wrote two lines :-)
13:27 sri ok :)
13:27 sri i suppose moritz solution is actually the best
13:28 metaperl moritz I think '/bo(*arg)/ requires /bo/texthere  ... /bo/ wont match as mojo shows - http://pastebin.com/44uT8gy2
13:28 metaperl oh yes
13:28 metaperl I didnt read the chatlog
13:28 metaperl I was busy proving it
13:30 perlrocks Twitter: "Latest Uploads to CPAN Mojolicious-1.41 03 Jun 2011 http://search.cpan.org/ ~ kraih/Mojolicious-1.41 /" (ja) --PerlCafe http://twitter.com/PerlCaf​e/status/76641829809950720
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13:32 GitHub119 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 343d4dd (1 files in 1 dirs): improved perldoc route further - http://bit.ly/iGDF3r
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13:32 sri looks better there too :D
13:36 sri how weird
13:36 metaperl looks like I fell into a crack in the REST way of doing things .... 3 routes for some idea or very complicated regexes /waypoints
13:36 sri just had 5 new watchers on github that left within an hour, someone seems to be playign around there
13:37 sri why 3 routes?
13:37 moritz they hang out here, and want to know how often you check the follower stats :-)
13:37 MisterHatt sri: probably using 'via' rather than loops for methods in the controller
13:37 metaperl Initially I had /bo?folder=some/folder/path  but I wanted to be spiffy looking and making /bo/some/folder/path but to handle the edge cases of /bo and /bo/ I have to write 3 routes
13:37 MisterHatt I imagine anyway
13:38 sri you only need 2 routes
13:38 sri /bo and /bo/(*args)
13:38 sri that will handle all 3 cases
13:38 metaperl nah, I showed the complation
13:38 sri /bo route can handle /bo and /bo/
13:38 metaperl oh
13:39 sri slash at the end is always optional, only in the middle it gets complicated
13:40 sri has nothing to do with REST either, just routes
13:40 moritz don't rest on your routes, they might get flat :-)
13:41 sri heh
13:41 metaperl :)
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13:42 sri when we started (*foo) would actually compile to .*
13:43 sri but there were a lot of complaints
13:43 sri after which we turned it into .+
13:43 sri sadly it makes your specific case a little tricky
13:45 sri oh wait
13:45 sri i might be stupid
13:46 metaperl lol
13:46 sri there is a very simple solution...
13:48 sri damn...
13:49 sri we of course solved this a long long time ago
13:50 sri will explain in a few mins, just adding tests
13:51 sri anyway solution is get '/bo/(*args)' => {args => undef} => sub {...}
13:52 sri and replace undef with whatever default value you want for args
13:52 metaperl oh sweet
13:52 sri it handles all 3 cases
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13:55 sri it's the obvious solution :S
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13:55 GitHub24 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 1ea0825 (2 files in 2 dirs): added perldoc tests - http://bit.ly/lOAzcG
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13:57 sri the lesson... always take a look at "./myapp.pl routes"
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14:08 sri the /bo/ case *used to be* really tricky, but we found a solution somewhen last year
14:08 * sri starts to remember
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16:36 sri hmm, i would like to make /foo/*bar work
16:37 sri it's easy, but makes documenting /foo/(.bar) a little difficult
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16:48 metaperl wow, I wish I had listed to sri's off-the-cuff comment: "I think tempire developed an app for that" -- https://github.com/tempire/app​-dirserve/blob/master/dirserve
16:56 mateu metaperl: I'm not sure of your exact needs but http_this maybe useful as well (see CPAN)
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17:02 metaperl mateu - thanks for mentioning it. I pretty much finished my approach to this. The difference is both of those are apps and I pretty much wanted to "mount" something within my curruent M::Lite app... such as I did here - https://github.com/metaperl/file-sta​t-ls/blob/master/script/mojo/mojo.pl
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17:15 marcus I'm on a plane!
17:15 metaperl going where?
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17:25 GitHub63 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * a54cb81 (8 files in 5 dirs): added experimental support for unquoted wildcard placeholders in Mojolicious::Routes::Pattern - http://bit.ly/lOXfM7
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17:25 sri lets see how it works out
17:25 tempire it certainly looks better
17:26 sri (.foo) looks out of place now though
17:26 sri i've removed it from the lite tutorial for now, mentioning it in the routes guide should be enough, since it is so rarely used
17:27 marcus metaperl: amsterdam
17:27 purl amsterdam is nice or more bicycles than cars
17:27 marcus seems there will be a github drinkup there tonight as well. good timing
17:27 metaperl purl amsterdam is marijuana coffeehouse central
17:27 purl ...but amsterdam is nice or more bicycles than cars...
17:27 marcus metaperl: not much longer. Coffeeshops are closing for tourists from new years.
17:28 metaperl oh wow
17:28 metaperl tempire - have you ever needed to make your app-dirserve mountable within another M::Lite app?
17:29 metaperl In other words, I have an app that produces binaries that go to a certain directory, and I need to serve static files from the directory. But I didnt want to run 2 servers, just add static file service within my app
17:29 tempire I started making a plugin based on your comments the other day
17:30 tempire render_dir('some/directory')
17:30 tempire not sure that will do what you want, though
17:30 metaperl yes, you might look at my working mojo app inside my upgrade of File::Stat::Ls for workability ideas - https://github.com/metaperl/file-sta​t-ls/blob/master/script/mojo/mojo.pl
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17:31 sri app->secret('soap')->start; should also work
17:32 sri and look better
17:32 metaperl to render the dir that way, you need the controller name and the physical folder ... and a way to convert the physical folder to a path that is digestible by the controller... I had to hand-write a bunch of stuff to form such paths ( https://github.com/metaperl/file-stat-ls/​blob/master/lib/File/Stat/Ls/Data.pm#L72 )
17:35 metaperl sri thank you. committed and FAQ'ed ( https://github.com/kraih/moj​o/wiki/Faq-for-the-impatient )
17:36 elb0w sri, you should sue https://drumbeat.org/en-US/journalism/
17:36 sri i should! :)
17:36 sri metaperl: the second last answer is not right
17:37 metaperl second-to-last you mean? the answer regarding routes?
17:37 sri the best solution is get '/bo/*folder' => {folder => 'default'} => sub {...};
17:38 sri you want a default folder anyway
17:40 sri hash means default values, default values make placeholders become optional
17:40 sri result is that /bo /bo/ and /bo/lalala match
17:42 sri and please try not to do too frequent wiki updates
17:43 sri it spams the activity stream and makes people unwatch mojo
17:43 metaperl ok should I fork and update my wiki? and then just push every week or so?
17:43 sri that's really a bit annoying, discourages wiki activity...
17:43 sri github--
17:43 metaperl or maybe just start my own wiki faq somewhere else
17:44 sri once a day or so should be fine
17:45 marcus yeah, they should group it
17:45 sri yea
17:45 marcus I'll suggest it to them tonight. If I'm not too drunk :)
17:51 sri app->secret('...')->start; is actually a nice idiom
17:52 metaperl I actually like the Perl 5 -> method call syntax. I think stands out better than dot will
17:52 * sri loves the dot
17:52 metaperl app.secret('pass').start
17:52 metaperl looks like jquery :)
17:52 metaperl or python
17:52 sri looks right
17:53 metaperl does ruby do it that way too?
17:53 sri ye
17:53 metaperl "Perl was designed to grow between shell and C" -- Larry Wall 2001
17:53 tempire the twin towers were destroyed that year
17:54 sri $self-> is implicit in ruby though
17:54 metaperl yes
17:54 sri so you don't see the dot as much
17:54 metaperl actually I think he said that in year 2000 around October
17:54 metaperl he announced Perl 6 in Atlanta, GA. that was when he said it
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18:49 tempire I finally understand what everyone says when they talk about perl people just accepting all the manual labor because they're used to it
18:49 tempire the lisp community is much worse.
18:50 crab oh?
19:33 mateu metaperl: are you aware that one can mount multiple apps with PSGI.  Further, they can even be cascaded.  Only 1 server needed for as many apps as you want to mount.
19:34 mateu http://suryahunter.com/wiki/hunter/perl​_ironman/mount_multiple_apps_with_plack demonstrates the technique.
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21:59 root exit
21:59 root \quit
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22:17 tempire lulz
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23:25 metaperl tempire - whatever render_dir plugin you make, please make sure it runs on windows as well
23:26 tempire Theoretically, it will
23:26 tempire whether it does, that's all you.
23:26 tempire I don't have the patience for it anymore
23:27 metaperl I'm just running into hell with pathnames needing to be "\this\way\on\windows" and then url paths being the other way
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