Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-06-08

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04:44 * tempire incites sri to religious hatred
04:47 tempire the hypnotoad is a crutch for weak minded programmers.  he does not exist
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08:49 stephan48 moritz: what have you done? now yko is alone....
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08:51 moritz stephan48: now he has time for hacking :-)
08:52 * sri wonders if the before_render hook was a success or not
08:53 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious#hook
08:53 sri anyone actually using before_render?
08:53 stephan48 remove it and then see who cries
08:54 moritz sri: I planned to use it, but haven't gotten to it yet
08:56 sri that's a bad sign
08:57 moritz too many real-life distractions are a bad sign for hacking, yes
09:00 sri i hate the internet
09:00 sri ipv6 day ruins my browsing experience :(
09:01 stephan48 why?
09:01 moritz if you hate the internet, just don't do any browsing :-)
09:02 sri my wlan router doesn't do ipv6
09:04 moritz neither does mine. But tunnels exist
09:04 moritz and there usenet servers that server binary groups for free over v6 :-)
09:05 moritz *that serve
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09:36 crab i've been using ipv6 for years.
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10:08 sri hmm, wonder how to best handle questions i don't understand without wasting too much time
10:10 sri now i tend towards stepping back and letting someone who does understand answer
10:11 sri http://groups.google.com/group/mojolicio​us/browse_thread/thread/5b292af93ce87539 # maybe someone else groks this thread
10:12 sri wish people would just invest a little more time in formulating a simple to answer question :/
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10:17 stephan48 mh... i think he wants to make all connections over CONNECT method of a proxy, not just https/websocket
10:20 sri that was my guess too and what i answered to
10:20 sri but apparently not
10:21 sri well, i'm not going to bother with questions i don't understand... costs way too much time
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10:59 sri i've actually not seen before_render being used for something sensible
10:59 sri really need some examples
11:00 sri what i've seen so far was mostly just people adding stash values for their templates
11:00 sri and that's really wrong
11:01 sri since you can use app->defaults(...) and $route->to(...) for that
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11:01 sri (depending on scope)
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12:20 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious:: Lite or even run on plackup myapp.pl." (ja) --nabetama http://twitter.com/nabetam​a/status/78436114268037120
12:44 sri oh interesting, ietf-08 websocket spec is out
12:44 sri the protocol itself prolly did not change at all, just the wording
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12:56 MisterHatt anyone got an example of a dead easy way to get nav to show as "active" in templates?
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13:57 sri http://metacpan.org has gotten really good
14:07 sri wow, lots of mongodb hate from sky and timbunce
14:07 perlrocks Twitter: "If the daemon is not killed, Mojolicious:: Lite Should I make the site again." (ja) --nabetama http://twitter.com/nabetam​a/status/78463184402522112
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14:11 sri oh and theory of course, no big surprise there though
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14:22 crab sri: what are you reading? (hate)
14:22 sri twitter
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14:33 sri crab: all rants seem to originate from these slides http://www.slideshare.net/andrew311/optimiz​ing-mongodb-lessons-learned-at-localytics/
14:34 sri apparently mongodb can't scale so well with cpus due to a global write lock
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14:44 sri sky is from the riak camp though and timbunce/theory have invested a lot in sql databases
14:45 sri so take it with a grain of salt :)
14:48 crab giant global write locks are evil
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15:26 sri not the worst weakspot a database can have though
15:27 sri in riak for example all keys need to fit into memory
15:28 sri considering that mongodb can still do gazillions of write operations per second...
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15:50 sri what the hell, chrome now has ads?
15:50 sri http://imgur.com/7AaiV
15:50 sri i've not seen it yet, but i'm so switching again if true...
16:00 perlrocks Twitter: "Why is it that #Dancer and #Mojolicious both have #MongoDB plugins, but neither have #CouchDB plugins? #perl" --hoelzro http://twitter.com/hoelzro​/status/78491505303625728
16:00 Akron How can I retrieve the array or hash of wildcards from a named route, like '/:user/:path' => qw/user path/ or {user => '...', path => '...' }?
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16:05 sri ->param('user')
16:08 Akron No - I don't know what's the name of the wildcard.
16:08 Akron I have a route defined and I want to know what wildcards are in there.
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16:20 Akron Sample app for the question: https://gist.github.com/1014751
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16:51 GitHub146 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 93db2ed (2 files in 2 dirs): better README example - http://bit.ly/mUidMc
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16:57 sri i think that's a better first impression
16:58 sri maybe still a bit overloaded with information
16:59 Akron How about an additional "perl hello.pl get /" line?
16:59 sri for what purpose?
17:00 sri i'd rather remove information while still getting the point across
17:00 Akron Showing how the output would look like.
17:00 Akron Okay.
17:01 Akron You are rigt - the readme should be as simple as possible.
17:01 Akron right.
17:01 sri you do have a point though
17:04 sri if we use curl again it's not really more information, just making the result more obvious
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17:04 GitHub129 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * df14f71 (2 files in 2 dirs): improved README example further - http://bit.ly/lTHt70
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17:07 sri Akron: better? :)
17:08 marty sri++
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17:08 Akron Hm - I don't like that it's so *nix centric.
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17:08 sri i think most web developers know curl
17:08 sri it's the canonical console http client example
17:09 Akron Sure - but when you introduce curl you use sudo.
17:09 marty Not for docs (those are good also), but for the pure awesomeness of Mojo.  Everytime I run into issues, the kickass router and renderer in Mojo comes to the rescue.  Way to go sri!!!!
17:09 sri \o/
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17:09 sri not again :S
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17:09 Akron And i like the "get"ability of Mojo a lot!
17:10 * sri too
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17:10 marty Akron: Ya, me also
17:10 sri but i think it would do more harm than good in that place
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17:11 Akron Maybe. Showing the output though is a lot better!
17:11 sri when you start fresh "mojo get" could be some proprietary protocol client
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17:11 Akron sri++
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17:11 sri but i'm open for different opinions
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17:12 sri i mostly try to use curl in places where the reader doesn't know mojolicious yet
17:12 sri and then later on show the cooler possibilities
17:12 Akron I see.
17:13 sri would you grok "mojo get http://127.0.0.1:3000/" if you had never seen mojolicious before?
17:14 Akron No, but "perl hello.pl get /" would be in line with the daemon starting - so I think it wouldn't be that confusing.
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17:15 sri actually, i would expect that to be even more confusing
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17:15 Akron Really? Hm.
17:15 sri do we have a beginner here for a better opinion? :)
17:16 sri i would be fine with all actually, just not sure which one is the most obvious
17:18 Akron I'm okay with the current solution. But be aware of all the Windows-Devs not understanding sudo or curl. I think all Activestate guys use "get" instead of curl.
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17:19 sri same problem with the install oneliner
17:19 sri this is at least consistent
17:20 Akron That's what I mean. But there is no real platform independent one for all solution. So it's fine now.
17:20 Akron Do you have any hint regarding the wildcard question above?
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17:21 sri see my answer
17:22 sri if that's not what you wanted i didn't get the question
17:23 Akron Sorry - maybe I don't understand the answer. I don't have a controller and I want to know the names of all wildcards, see https://gist.github.com/1014751 line 10.
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17:24 Akron So - I want an array of all wildcards in a route - from a route.
17:26 perlrocks Twitter: "Added a new "Getting Started" section to the #mojolicious readme and website, feedback would be very welcome. :) http://t.co/KTu59hd #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/78513172134371328
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17:26 sri oh, that's quite a bit more complicated
17:27 sri there's the problem of finding the route
17:27 sri no wait, you don't have that
17:28 Akron I have the route - or do you mean, if it's nested?
17:28 sri nested is the second problem
17:28 sri anyway
17:28 sri $route->pattern->symbols is what you want
17:29 sri you'll have to check all parents of your route too though
17:29 sri manually
17:29 sri and you might have to force a compile on the route
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17:29 Akron Oh ... damn.
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17:30 sri yea, you need to call $route->pattern->match('/') or so first
17:31 sri but it's all possible :)
17:31 sri what will your plugin do?
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17:33 Akron It defines a callback url so I need to access the url by name. But the user can define it with her own scheme.
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17:37 Akron Oh - just realized another problem with the route naming ... https://gist.github.com/1014751 -> different results for the route URLs ... :(
17:44 sri that's a bit weird
17:44 sri i wouldn't have expected it
17:45 Akron You can reproduce that?
17:46 sri or actually it seems correct
17:46 Akron The symbol getting works! Nice - thank you!
17:46 sri the current captures are only passed to the current route
17:46 sri not to some random named route
17:46 sri it's obvious when you think about it
17:47 Akron So I am not able to name a route in a shortcut?
17:47 * sri doesn't follow
17:47 sri of course you can name routes in shortcuts
17:47 sri you can do everything you can do outside shortcuts
17:48 sri rendering a route by name simply doesn't get the current captures passed automatically
17:48 Akron But I thought 'test' and 'current' should be equvalent. and url_for would be compiled on the fly.
17:48 sri they are not equivalent
17:49 sri calling a route by name is always a fresh lookup
17:51 sri $self->utl_for('test', $self->match->captures)
17:52 sri that would be equivalent to $self->url_for('current')
17:54 Akron Oh ... that's not a nice solution. And I'm a bit confused.
17:54 sri it's a logical solution
17:55 sri named url_for always gets a fresh context, that's exactly why the 'current' special case exists
17:56 perlrocks Twitter: "Aww... love u too!!! RT @FollowLesly: @powderpuffeve loving my sexy #mojolicious  #Guatemalan" --PowderPuffEve http://twitter.com/PowderPuff​Eve/status/78520894338777088
17:57 sri i don't even know why you care about that
17:57 sri why would anyone ever use the name for the current route?
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18:08 Akron Ahhhhhhhhhh ... stupid me!
18:08 Akron Okay - I got it. Sorry - thank you. No - there is no problem. I was thinking the wrong way around.
18:09 sri :)
18:09 sri funny thing is i don't remember why we added 'current' because url_for without name should do the exact same Oo
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18:11 Akron I know. I just wanted to make it explicit in the example.
18:13 sri i think it was because of a template system... TT maybe
18:13 sri marcus should know
18:16 sri normal users should actually just go with my $url = $self->url_for;
18:17 * sri has eaten too much pizza :S
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18:20 Akron Okay. Next time I try to act normal. ;)
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18:21 sri conformist!
18:22 Akron Sorry ma.
18:22 Akron Do you learn these words at the kindergarden?
18:23 Akron Tse. ;)
18:23 sri naah, urbandictionary!
18:23 sri "Conformist: Society's Bitch. One who has to follow what's 'In' in order to gain popularity and have a life. "
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18:24 sri http://www.urbandictionary.com # it's great
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18:26 Akron Where can I upload my avatar there?
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18:29 perlrocks Twitter: "but still finished cut out awful cgi-script in Perl - for Mojolicious ported. author wrote in Perl as the old school ... nx" (ru) --dolbanavt http://twitter.com/dolbanav​t/status/78529145985970177
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18:42 sri hmm, i would really like to make the README smaller
18:42 sri but it's important that we get the growing point across
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19:14 perlrocks Twitter: "#mojolicious gets better and better every day. #perl" --ttyS1 http://twitter.com/ttyS1/status/78540437526286336
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19:38 GitHub177 mojo: master chromatic * 8c24689 (1 files in 1 dirs): Improved README.pod. ...
19:38 GitHub177 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 5b14ad0 (1 files in 1 dirs): Merge pull request #163 from chromatic/master ...
19:38 GitHub177 mojo: master commits df14f71...5b14ad0 - http://bit.ly/m1WouY
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20:07 GitHub67 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 12c2c15 (5 files in 4 dirs): updated Changes and changed formatting a bit - http://bit.ly/myXGxJ
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20:12 GitHub12 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 7ef6125 (2 files in 2 dirs): small formatting tweaks - http://bit.ly/iHS2Ko
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21:05 perlrocks Twitter: "Blogs written - http://bit.ly/mxZQOR - sourcereader.cgi the Mojolicious:: Lite redone in writing" (ja) --nqounet http://twitter.com/nqounet​/status/78568257078050816
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22:15 chansen sri: I'm bored, what are you up to?
22:17 sri chansen: sleep
22:17 chansen sri: you never sleep! (IIRC)
22:30 perlrocks Twitter: "Trying to convince myself that at least one of Mojolicious, Dancer or Django is close enough to my dreams web framework... not working! #fb" --themage http://twitter.com/themage​/status/78589638025019393
22:30 chansen marcus: http://conferences.yapceurope.org​/npw2011/wiki?node=WhoStaysWhere
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23:38 garu oh noes, my op power is gone :'(

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