Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-06-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:06 tempire_ sri: why do you remove old versions from cpan?
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01:17 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-ParamsAuth 0.02 by TEMPIRE - http://metacpan.org/release/TEMPIRE/​Mojolicious-Plugin-ParamsAuth-0.02/" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/78631691018706944
01:39 tempire shnikies
01:40 tempire I had no idea myapp generate makefile worked so seemlessly
01:40 tempire mojolicious dist, easy as 1..2..pie
02:04 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-SslAuth 0.04 by TEMPIRE - http://metacpan.org/release/TEMPIR​E/Mojolicious-Plugin-SslAuth-0.04/" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/78643541974327296
02:13 tempire echo echo echo
02:13 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-ConsoleLogger 0.03 by TEMPIRE - http://metacpan.org/release/TEMPIRE/M​ojolicious-Plugin-ConsoleLogger-0.03/" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/78645931179917312
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03:09 perlrocks Twitter: "If you guys try to use the substantial document, I still come into Mojolicious Na. Be calculated easily by multiplying it with a little time to read the level of English." (ja) --nabetama http://twitter.com/nabetam​a/status/78659976234668032
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03:58 crab meep.
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05:24 sri tempire: why not?
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05:49 tempire 'cause sometimes you need to rebuild a system using packages from a specific set in time
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05:49 GitHub46 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 60d91d4 (4 files in 4 dirs): updated WebSocket implementation to ietf-08 - http://bit.ly/lcbom9
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05:49 tempire like this system works with mojolicious 1.x, and I need a new installation using those exact versions
05:49 sri tempire: use the tags then
05:50 sri cpan admins asked for old version to be deleted not too long ago btw.
05:51 sri *versions
05:51 tempire Yeah, I read that.  Just seems inconvenient
05:51 sri i don't like having obsolete versions around anyway, so it's fine with me
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07:24 perlrocks Twitter: "I @ charsbar OSC 2011 Hokkaido's Mojolicious:: Lite Let's use! Limited to 50 copies and distribute the text! Please come visit us. http://t.co/05jIS12 # osc11do # perl # hokkaidopm" (ja) --hokkaidopm http://twitter.com/hokkaido​pm/status/78724127535534080
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07:48 perlrocks Twitter: "@themage I'm quite happy with mojolicious. :-)" --nferraz http://twitter.com/nferraz​/status/78730275974156288
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08:18 perlrocks Twitter: "What kind of commenting system use? http://ru-perl.livejournal.com/391680.html # perl # doxygen # mojo # mojolicious" (ru) --afiskon http://twitter.com/afiskon​/status/78737797128794112
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09:03 marcus chansen: added me too. I see brian is even more elite than us :)
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10:19 perlrocks Twitter: "Anatoly Sharifulin: Briefly: Mojolicious:: Lite options to start http://ff.im/FjPZk" (ru) --planetperlru http://twitter.com/planetper​lru/status/78768120159940608
10:26 chansen marcus: heh =)
10:33 perlrocks Twitter: "Anatoly Sharifulin (sharifulin): Brief: Mojolicious:: Lite options to start http://bit.ly/m0CgGW" (ru) --perlironman http://twitter.com/perlironm​an/status/78771656058863616
10:40 perlrocks Twitter: "Briefly: Mojolicious:: Lite options to start http://ff.im/FjUsc" (ru) --sharifulin http://twitter.com/shariful​in/status/78773380626661376
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12:59 GitHub35 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 098d69f (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed typos - http://bit.ly/iFi7IC
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13:16 marty_ Hey sri.  While your fixing typos I have a few (very minor) comments on grammer and syntax for the docs if you are interested
13:16 marty_ is now known as marty
13:16 sri sure
13:17 marty You say: Mojolicious::Plugins inherits all methods from Mojo::Base and implements the following new ones.
13:17 marty I say: What is a "ones"?  Gramatically correct would be ...the following new methods.
13:18 marty Ones are the english version of true in Perl.  :)
13:18 sri ok, i don't get that
13:18 sri to me the original sentence is perfectly fine
13:19 marty It'
13:19 sri is repeating the word methods really better english?
13:19 marty It's very minor.  Look up ones
13:19 marty It's very common to us ones, but it's not proper english
13:19 sri no point, i'd rathr ask native english speakers
13:20 * marty is a native english speaker.  :)
13:20 sri more!
13:20 * sri pokes tempire
13:20 moritz contemporary English and dictionaries often disagree
13:20 moritz (same with German, for that matter)
13:22 sri i dunno, to me using the word methods twice in the same sentence sounds bad
13:22 marty Ya, ones is used a lot in normal conversastion.  I just did not know if non native english people would understand the term "ones" in that context.
13:22 sri i'd really like to hear more opinions
13:22 marty Agree
13:23 marty It's a minor issue for sure.  Just thought I would throw it out there.  :0
13:24 marty Also, in the growing guide you say....
13:24 marty Traditionally all session data was stored on the server side and only session ids were exchanged between browser and web server in the form of cookies.
13:24 marty The sentence is fine, but it's past tense and sounds like you are abandoning the concept.  I think maybe.....
13:24 marty Traditionally all session data is stored on the server and only session ids are exchanged between browser and web server in the form of cookies.
13:25 sri actually that're pretty much spot on
13:25 sri we have abandoned that concept mostly
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13:25 marty But not abandoning cookies, just the way the data is stored in them
13:27 sri this goes a bit over my head
13:28 marty prolly just semantics.  No big deal
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13:32 sri in context that sentence seems perffectly fine to me too.
13:32 sri *-f
13:32 sri Traditionally all session data was stored on the server side and only session
13:32 sri ids were exchanged between browser and web server in the form of cookies.
13:32 sri In L<Mojolicious> however we are taking this concept one step further by
13:32 sri storing everything in C<HMAC-MD5> signed cookies
13:32 sri ...
13:33 crab how should one rotate the mojo logfile?
13:33 sri SIGUSR2
13:34 crab kill -USR2 logs/mpl.log
13:34 crab (sorry :-)
13:34 sri ?
13:34 * sri doesn't get it
13:34 crab i'm being silly.
13:34 sri oh
13:35 * sri slaps crab
13:35 sri don't confuse me while i'm confused
13:35 marty I guess the word "everything" got me.
13:36 marty I was taking it to literally.  I think I understand the context now.
13:36 sri (i'm sure there's a xzibit joke in there)
13:36 crab marty: i have to say that i don't understand what you said about ones
13:37 marty crab: it's easy, just look up the definition of ones
13:37 marty Ones is not a noun, but it is used as a noun
13:40 marty ones is slang.  It's used mostly as a surrogate  for the noun being referenced.
13:40 moritz is there anything one can say without repeating the noun, and which is considered good style?
13:41 sri good qustion
13:41 sri *+e
13:41 crab Blah implements the following methods in addition to those it inherits from its base classes:
13:41 marty crab++
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13:42 sri great, and suddenly inheritance chains are undocumentd
13:42 sri i don't think so
13:42 crab but i still don't think "new ones" there is slang, but it's hard to parse and so i'm not certain
13:42 crab sri: you can name the base classes.
13:42 sri i want a good replacement that works in all situations
13:43 crab s/its base classes/Blurf, Quux, and Klimbl/
13:43 sri we use multiple forms of the phrase
13:43 sri look it up and make a real proposal please
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13:43 crab no.
13:43 crab i don't think anything needs to be changed.
13:44 sri heh
13:44 sri fine with me too :)
13:44 marty I'm ok with dat.  :)
13:45 marty But please remember, you heard it hear first.  Ones is not a word.
13:45 * marty takes a bow
13:45 * marty throws himeself into the alligator pit
13:46 crab B. VI. Pronominal or substantival form of a, an . (With pl. ones.)
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13:46 crab B. VI. 22. An absolute form of a, to avoid repetition of a n.: A person or thing of the kind already mentioned; as 'I lose a neighbour and you gain one`
13:47 marty plural?
13:47 purl plural is, like, 'Norske nerder' or justin gessner
13:47 crab "Which cake should i eat?" "Eat the new one". "Which neighbours should i eat?" "Eat the new ones".
13:47 crab seems fine to me.
13:47 sri http://mefailenglish.ytmnd.com/
13:48 crab Which martys should i not eat? The ones that didn't throw themselves into the alligator pit.
13:48 marty heheh
13:48 sri we need jester in this channel
13:49 * yko eats marty: alligators don't speak english.
13:49 * marty hangs out in the alligator stomach for a ride
13:50 crab btw, i think "M::P inherits from M::B and implements the following new methods" would be sufficient too (as far as repeating the noun goes)
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14:04 sri hmm, guess i could upload a new release
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14:05 GitHub107 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * e92758e (1 files in 1 dirs): release preparations - http://bit.ly/jCbVlL
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14:07 sri oh great.... chrome 12 rejects the pause certificate
14:07 sri that's it, i'm done with chrome
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14:13 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 1.42 by KRAIH - http://metacpan.org/releas​e/KRAIH/Mojolicious-1.42/" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/78827011233161217
14:14 perlrocks Twitter: "Released #mojolicious 1.42 with support for unquoted wildcard placeholders in routes, enjoy. :) http://t.co/smAR5li #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/78827301487378432
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14:18 garu tempire: there's a general orientation to remove old dists from CPAN. Makes it easier on mirrors. Besides, if you want an older version, just use BackPAN :) http://backpan.perl.org/authors/id/K/KR/KRAIH/
14:18 bosphorus guys, the lastest mojolicious (1.42) updated the websocket implementation to ietf-08, according to the changelog
14:18 bosphorus is there a browser that supports it?
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14:18 bosphorus or flash fallback, etc
14:18 sri it's almost equal to ietf-07
14:19 sri firefox aurora supports it
14:19 sri and yes, there are also versions of the flash fallback available already
14:19 purl okay, sri.
14:19 bosphorus cool
14:19 bosphorus thanks
14:19 sri but don't use websockets in production yet
14:20 sri just for experimenting
14:20 bosphorus it's not for production
14:20 bosphorus yes
14:21 sri tempire: or this account if you want to go even further back http://backpan.perl.org/authors/id/S/SR/SRI/
14:24 * sri takes a look at Mojo 0.2 for giggles
14:28 sri damn... what the hell was i thinking back then...
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14:39 perlrocks Twitter: "The mojolicious Ne me too much time to complete the application. . ." (ja) --clicktx http://twitter.com/clicktx​/status/78833715064737792
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14:40 GitHub176 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 3f6feed (4 files in 4 dirs): fixed typos - http://bit.ly/jRjnSl
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14:44 sri damn... http://pusher.com just raised $1m
14:46 perlrocks Twitter: "Simple parsing of #mojolicious json configuration files outside of mojo app http://t.co/3vpTV89" --und3f http://twitter.com/und3f/status/78835370162274304
14:48 sri hmm, that module seems rather pointless and counter productive
14:49 moritz it, uhm, reads a file and passes it to Mojo::JSON
14:49 moritz wow
14:49 sri it doesn't even work right
14:49 moritz how totally non-obvious and non-trivial
14:50 sri it preprocesses with Mojo::Template but doesn't pass in the application
14:51 sri with Mojo::Server->new->load_app(...)->config we have a perfectly fine way buult in to do that
14:51 sri s/u/i/
14:52 sri oh well, one more search result for mojo ;p
14:57 marcus yay
14:58 moritz "90% of everything is crud"
15:01 mattastrophe have an attribution for that quote, moritz?
15:01 mattastrophe it sounds too true to be real :)
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15:01 GitHub67 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * b343c77 (1 files in 1 dirs): improved embedding cookbook recipe - http://bit.ly/j4ZQ3F
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15:02 mikegrb in Mojo / Mojo::Lite is it possible to get the ip the request was sent to, ie the server's ip?
15:03 moritz mattastrophe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_Law
15:03 sri mikegrb: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/M​ojo/Transaction#local_address
15:03 mikegrb if the request is made via ip it is available via $self->req->url->base but these requests will be via ..
15:03 mikegrb sweet thanks
15:05 mattastrophe thanks, moritz...funny I read it as CRUD, the TLA (in four words)
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15:06 GitHub90 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 5e07394 (5 files in 3 dirs): a few more small documentation tweaks - http://bit.ly/ktUwYv
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15:07 mikegrb python wielding coworker needs to write a simple tiny webservice in perl and asked about http serving and was going to apache proxy pass too him, asked the perl way to do it
15:07 mikegrb suggested mojolicious::lite and his response to the synopsis was \o/
15:07 sri \o/
15:07 Sugar \0/
15:07 sri Oo
15:08 Sugar \o/
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15:17 elb0w \o/-SHARK!! ~-~-~-/\~-~-
15:17 elb0w ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
15:17 marcus bloody waters
15:17 elb0w for extra effect
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16:12 sri hmm
16:13 sri wonder what's better for documentation, "use Mojo::Base 'Mojolicious';" or "use Mojolicious -base;"
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16:34 crab i'd say the former.
16:34 crab that -base is really confusing.
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16:36 GitHub0 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 3bcabbd (11 files in 5 dirs): improved comments - http://bit.ly/lL7kXQ
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16:36 sri think i agree
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16:47 marcus sri: I like it when you obsess.
16:47 sri it's all about the details
16:49 marcus indeed
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17:25 marty Hmm. I wonder if there will ever be an ODBC connector thingy for Mongo? (or any non-sql db)
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18:07 marcus there's one for excel, isn't there? ;)
18:07 marcus http://www.datamystic.com/datapipe/excel_odbc.html
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18:38 GitHub175 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 507ece2 (40 files in 12 dirs): improved a few more comments - http://bit.ly/iKGtfT
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18:39 sri a few comments :)
18:50 sri i think all bad single word comments are gone now :)
18:50 sri at least i went through them all
18:52 sri if there's one left send me a pull request!
18:52 tempire ones sounds fine to me
18:52 tempire another possibility: Mojolicious::Plugins inherits from Mojo::Base and implements the following new methods.
18:53 tempire Backpan makes sense.  Never thought to look there
18:53 * tempire deletes his old cpan dists
18:53 * tempire just purchased a macbook pro with a 512G SSD
18:54 sri yea, backpan + git repo should be more than enough
18:54 sri :O
18:54 * sri is very jealous now
18:54 * tempire opens wallet, a tumbleweed drifted out
18:55 sri i've thought about getting a bigger ssd... but everything above 120gb is insane...
18:55 sri especially considering that they die after a year
18:55 tempire I've been using my current mbp for 4 years
18:55 sri make sure to get extended apple care ;)
18:55 tempire I figure in 3 years I'll appreciate it
18:55 tempire yeah, and I got that too
18:56 sri very smart with an expensive ssd
18:56 tempire even without the ssd, worth it
18:56 sri because it won't survive 3 years
18:56 tempire my current motherboard went crazy after a couple drops
18:56 tempire applecare to the rescue!
19:00 * tempire dances
19:02 * sri can't wait for lion
19:04 tempire I'm curious as to whether mail will be worth using
19:04 tempire I'm much happier using gmail directly
19:04 tempire doesn't slow down the system with gigs and gigs of mail
19:04 tempire I'm interested in using the server features
19:06 tempire ooh, webdav for remote ios devices
19:08 marcus tempire: sparrow is awesome for mail
19:09 marcus btw, reeder is in the mac app store now
19:09 tempire better than the gmail interface, though?
19:09 marcus tempire: yeah, I think the interface is better. They don't expose *all* the features tho. So sometimes I need to go use gmail
19:09 marcus but mostly I use sparrow
19:10 * marcus has been hacking on core data all night. Fucking verbose repeating shit :-/
19:10 tempire would be great if they integrated twitter support.  adium twitter is slow.
19:10 marcus NewsEntries *nE=[NewsEntries alloc] initWithEntity: [NSEntityDescription entityForName: @"NewsEntries" inManagedObjectContext: [Database db].managedObjectContext] insertIntoManagedObjectContext: [Database db].managedObjectContext];
19:10 tempire cocoa needs a serious modernization
19:11 marcus that should really be something like NewsEntries *ne=[DB createNew: @"NewsEntries"];
19:11 marcus tempire: most of cocoa is good, but core data is super bloated
19:11 marcus but I need it's features now.
19:11 marcus namely the fetchedresultscontroller
19:12 marcus mostly I just use flying meat db wrapper
19:12 marcus and write sql
19:12 * tempire has an emotional blockages towards languages/frameworks that don't allow ternary IFs
19:12 marcus I only have an emotional blockage from significant whitespace
19:12 marcus which keeps me away from python
19:13 tempire the best practical joke is to make tabs default for a python programmers vim session
19:13 tempire especially if they don't know vim customization
19:14 marcus 16 space tabs
19:16 tempire hmm, sparrow allows gmail shortcuts.  that's convenient
19:18 tempire sort of
19:19 * sri uses sparrow too
19:22 * sri would like more optional semicolons in perl
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19:22 tempire detected by linefeed?
19:22 sri ye
19:23 sri maybe optional brackets too
19:23 sri something tim bray recently said really made me think
19:23 tempire brackets or braces
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19:24 sri what's the difference?
19:24 purl the difference is Epsilon, a number that gets closer to zero the longer you think about it.
19:24 marcus what did tim bray say?
19:24 marcus he used to be a perl guy
19:24 tempire brace: {  bracket: [
19:24 sri "Thinking that occurrence of the string "});" is a symptom of language-design shortcomings."
19:24 sri and i have to agree
19:24 marty perl is doomed then. :)
19:26 sri perl is otherwise so expressive...
19:26 tempire I don't like %{$ref->{key}}
19:26 sri well those are gone already
19:26 sri sine 5.14
19:26 sri *+c
19:27 * marty is looking up sine
19:27 sri more optional semicolons would be a good start
19:27 tempire are you sure about that?  don't you mean the using of refs for pop, push, shift, etc?
19:28 sri tempire: yea, but how often do yo use that construct in a different context?
19:28 stephan48 optional semicolons? better not!
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19:29 sri }); needs to die!
19:29 stephan48 no!
19:29 stephan48 why? i think its ok
19:31 sri it's ugly
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19:31 sri quite redundant
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19:32 tempire hmm, refs work for map, that's cool
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19:32 tempire but you still have to use %{$ref->{key}} in a for loop
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19:32 tempire I want to just to %$ref->{key
19:32 tempire %$ref->{key}
19:35 sri well, when do you loop over a hash?
19:36 sri i would usually use each or keys
19:36 sri which works fine with references
19:36 sri only arrayref in for loop would be left i think
19:36 tempire same with @$ref->{key}
19:36 sri wait, arrayref is redundant...
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19:37 sri array of course
19:37 sri but yea, that's the only common case i could think of
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19:45 tempire sigh
19:45 tempire real estate companies are the worst
19:45 tempire I
19:45 tempire di
19:45 tempire I didn't think I'd ever see this again
19:45 tempire http://sef.mlxchange.com/5.2.0​9.15900/Login/BrowserError.asp
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19:48 marcus premier app!
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20:08 sri ouch
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20:46 tempire hmm
20:46 tempire "The smaller the the capacity of the SSD, the faster that P/E cycle get used up per cell, which means 30GB SSD will die "gracefully" much faster than a 120GB SSD."
20:48 tempire "So a good 30GB MLC SSD can last 3-5 full years of hardcore usage (24/7 intensive workload). The same SSD but with SLC NANDs will last far far more than that, maybe 10-20 years. 60GB MLC would probably last far more than 10 years. 120GB should last 20+, 1TB would last a century."
20:48 tempire I think we're good.
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21:18 chansen I haven't decided whether or not it's worth to upgrade my early 2010 MPB with a SSD
21:19 chansen I will probably buy a new MBP, I'm not happy with my 13"
21:28 tempire too small?
21:28 purl hmmm... too small is better than too big
21:29 chansen tempire: yeah, I have had 15" before, downsizing to 13" was a bad idea
21:30 tempire that's tough.  I'm using 3 monitors right now.  Displays are addictive poision.
21:31 chansen I mainly use a 27" imac when I'm at home, I only use my MBP when I'm traveling or visting clients
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22:29 GitHub135 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 0fef1f8 (27 files in 8 dirs): micro optimizations - http://bit.ly/iEZNPJ
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