Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-07-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 crab should one serve Expires with a 304 response? i suppose it makes sense.
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02:07 mateu <smart>my CPAN client is only installing 1.59 and I want 1.60, what should i do?</ass>
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04:00 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious:: Lite is a compact, I hope, I remember well how dull" (ja) --akiym http://twitter.com/akiym/status/89544309073907712
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04:15 mateu at this very micro-second, i so fuckn own this channel.
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05:56 marcus mateu: an inconvenient truth?
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12:47 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 1.58: The Web In A Box! http://twurl.nl/teoh0a" --lordnaastik http://twitter.com/lordnaast​ik/status/89676938213474304
12:49 sri hmm
12:49 sri i might actually split up Mojo::DOM
12:50 sri into a sax parser, tree builder and dom
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13:48 JonChisciotte hi, is it possible to define a default format for a route inside the route definition or should I handle this inside the controller's method?
13:48 perlrocks Twitter: "http://t.co/gez9oy1 #perl #notdead :) ! #framework" --e_quilibre http://twitter.com/e_quilib​re/status/89692435084619777
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14:34 sri hmm
14:34 sri no matter how i split up Mojo::DOM i don't like it :/
14:39 sri it should have been Mojo::DOM and Mojo::Query or so
14:40 sri but that wouldn't be backwards compatible
14:41 sri now splitting it into Mojo::Tree and Mojo::DOM doesn't look right
14:42 sri i need a good name for the parser base class
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16:15 GitHub178 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/quOWCb
16:15 GitHub178 [mojo/master] added experimental Mojo::Tree module, which contains extracted functionality from Mojo::DOM - Sebastian Riedel
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16:16 sri not entirely sure about the module name
16:16 sri but i like the clean separation between html/xml and css
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16:23 GitHub193 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/rsoUtT
16:23 GitHub193 [mojo/master] Mojo::Tree is not experimental - Sebastian Riedel
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16:30 GitHub53 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/r8zUiy
16:30 GitHub53 [mojo/master] more tests - Sebastian Riedel
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16:31 sri i was actually a bit worried about documentation, but it might have actually gotten easier
16:31 sri since perldoc Mojo::DOM is not so overwhelming anymore
16:33 xaka is tree usable only for xml-like structures?
16:34 sri for what else would it be useful?
16:37 xaka for an example your application design contains in-memory objects which are groups in a tree so i would like to use all this easy-find-features which tree provides for XML
16:38 * sri doesn't follow
16:40 sri but i think you might have been miseld by the name
16:40 sri *misled
16:40 sri which means we have a problem :/
16:40 sri maybe i should just make a breaking change and rename everything properly
16:42 xaka mb Mojo::XML::Tree?
16:42 sri and you don't think that would be ugly?
16:42 sri and inconsistent with Mojo::DOM?
16:44 sri it really should be Mojo::DOM and Mojo::Query
16:44 sri the big problem is that it breaks backwards compatibility
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16:49 sri hmm
16:49 sri maybe i just shouldn't split Mojo::DOM :S
16:50 sri 1300 LoC seems a bit much for one module though
16:51 sri maybe Mojo::HTML5 or so instead of Mojo::Tree
16:53 sri or just Mojo::HTML
16:53 sri ye, i suppose that might work
16:54 sri or maybe it make people feel uncomfortable using it for xml
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17:10 GitHub26 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/nxc5PL
17:10 GitHub26 [mojo/master] renamed Mojo::Tree to Mojo::HTML - Sebastian Riedel
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17:11 sri suppose that's better
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17:17 * sri would like to hear some opinions
17:17 * sri pokes marcus, crab and tempire
17:17 xaka what if people would like to use your parser to work with their own xml files or data? Mojo::HTML sounds too specific
17:18 sri umm
17:18 sri xaka: you previously suggested Mojo::XML::Tree, how is that any less specific?
17:19 sri in fact, it is even more specific
17:19 xaka it says "XML" that means you can use it for any xml-based data
17:19 sri yea, and that's absolutely wrong
17:19 xaka mb Mojo::XML?
17:19 sri HTML is *not* XML
17:19 sri in fact HTML is less specific than XML
17:21 sri but HTML has to support XML due to XHTML, that's the main reason we can just support random XML
17:21 sri so HTML makes a lot of sense for people that know their web technologies
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17:26 GitHub111 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/n16cdU
17:26 GitHub111 [mojo/master] highlight focus on HTML5 - Sebastian Riedel
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17:26 garu sri: btw Mojo::UserAgent scared me last night :)
17:27 sri how so?
17:27 garu there is post() and post_form()... and I obviously went to post() thinking "hey, url + post arguments" when what I really wanted was really post_form()  :)
17:28 sri that's not very scary
17:28 sri did you make funny headers?
17:28 garu yup
17:29 sri :)
17:29 garu it's scary when I'm trying to run a crawler and thinking the whole POST process of Mojo::UA is dead wrong
17:29 garu I even opened the rfc to make sure
17:29 sri lol
17:29 garu and was about to come here asking why the fuck would you pass arguments via the header
17:30 garu then it got me thinking: this is so naive I seriously doubt sri would make such mistake, specially since it's so full of tests and, well, other people actually using it
17:30 garu so I must have been doing something wrong
17:31 garu and there I was skimming through the source once more and seeing it being explicitly put in the headers
17:31 garu even the *variable* was named "$headers"
17:31 sri ouch
17:31 garu so yeah, it's gotta be on purpose
17:32 garu and then I saw post_form(), and all was well in the universe again :)
17:34 garu maybe another small doc patch? just to make it clear that "this passes header arguments. What you probably want is to pass form arguments, in which case use post_form() below"
17:34 garu I mean, for stupid folks like me in need for coffee :)
17:35 garu oh
17:36 garu noted, it's already somewhat clear in Mojo::UserAgent (just in post_form(), not in post()) but I was using Test::Mojo
17:36 garu I should have known better anyway
17:37 sri well, if you have any ideas how to make it more obvious send a pull request ;)
17:37 garu cool, will do
17:39 garu sri: I've been successfully using Test::Mojo instead of Test::WWW::Mechanize for about a week now, it's been a real breeze
17:39 garu (for non-Mojolicious projects)
17:41 perlrocks Twitter: "Split Mojo::DOM into two modules, not sure about the name of the new module yet, suggestions welcome. http://t.co/euHnEcu #mojolicious #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/89751012956585985
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18:15 GitHub185 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/oAVKTO
18:15 GitHub185 [mojo/master] documentation tweaks - Sebastian Riedel
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18:26 depesz sri: hi. just wanted to say: thanks for great job.
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18:44 sri depesz: you're welcome :)
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19:12 sri hmm, wonder if some more functionality should be moved from Mojo::HTML to Mojo::DOM
19:14 minimalist hey sri, the MongoDB driver you're writing - are you using the existing MongoDB XS or you're rewriting everything from scratch?
19:14 sri from scratch
19:14 purl from scratch is, like, fun
19:15 minimalist would you post it on github, so that the community can pick up from where you left?
19:16 sri i'm still working on it
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19:27 GitHub5 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/nBZJUc
19:27 GitHub5 [mojo/master] release preparations - Sebastian Riedel
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19:34 perlrocks Twitter: "http://lnkd.in/ZeJw-B We are considering swapping our old HTML::Mason framework for mojolicious. We are an all volunteer group of..." --FindTrials http://twitter.com/FindTria​ls/status/89779401587302400
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21:20 GitHub123 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/pNefv5
21:20 GitHub123 [mojo/master] documentation tweaks - Sebastian Riedel
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21:53 sri i'm still not happy with the names :/
21:54 sri Mojo::HTML fits, but the combination with Mojo::DOM is not so good
21:55 sri i could now deprecate Mojo::DOM and rename it to Mojo::Query
21:55 sri but i would hate to break all documentation and talks out there
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22:36 GitHub158 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/qg4IHB
22:36 GitHub158 [mojo/master] documentation tweaks - Sebastian Riedel
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22:59 perlrocks Twitter: "I'm finally understanding the 'rendering' method for Mojolicious, but wonder if its possible to call external templates, i'm sure it is." --tja1980 http://twitter.com/tja1980​/status/89830985704804352
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23:21 GitHub135 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/ne3JRv
23:21 GitHub135 [mojo/master] documentation cleanup - Sebastian Riedel
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23:29 xaka Mojo::Query? i think it's too abstract: db query? jQuery? which one query?
23:29 xaka Mojo::HTML::Query means something, but just Mojo::Query doesn't
23:34 stephan48 +1
23:34 purl 1
23:34 stephan48 even purl agrees
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23:34 GitHub197 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/mZmshA
23:34 GitHub197 [mojo/master] more documentation tweaks - Sebastian Riedel
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23:35 sri Mojo::DOM doesn't mean much either
23:35 xaka why not? everyone knows what DOM means
23:35 xaka but DOM is client side term, that's true
23:36 sri do you *really* know what DOM means?
23:37 sri because Mojo::DOM doesn't have much in common with the real one
23:40 xaka then i can only say "wow" :)
23:42 sri Mojo::HTML is the actual Mojo::DOM
23:43 xaka so what DOM means in Mojo terms?
23:46 sri since today it means nothing
23:46 sri that's the whole reason why i'm looking for a new name...
23:50 sri lets try a different approach :)
23:51 sri xaka: do you understand the documentation of http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/DOM and http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/HTML in their current form?
23:52 sri does the connection between them make sense to you?
23:53 * sri needs more guinea pigs
23:54 sri stephan48: how about you? :)

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