Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-07-25

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:39 tempire Is there a decent RTE available these days?
00:39 tempire *not tinymce*
00:40 maluco_ is now known as maluco
00:46 sri looks like ab on lion is really broken
00:46 sri the memory spikes were actually socket errors piling up or so
00:46 sri perl is perfectly fine
00:51 crab zoiks. that's a big patch. /me studies
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01:02 sri i especially would like some opinions on http://mojolicio.us/perldo​c/Mojo/IOLoop/EventEmitter
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01:12 GitHub28 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/dd​f676cec35e2a65880b253bc94ec09d6d57dfa9
01:12 GitHub28 [mojo/master] improved event emitter a bit - Sebastian Riedel
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01:16 sri anyway, if you want to get an impression of what really changed compare https://github.com/kraih/mojo/​blob/master/lib/Mojo/IOLoop.pm with https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/cc4e0d8b9df2​2e668d2c950afd3a1f53cd237315/lib/Mojo/IOLoop.pm
01:16 sri :)
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01:22 GitHub73 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/f5​c66c048d2f5a876e73827d2e6fc329849432aa
01:22 GitHub73 [mojo/master] better test case - Sebastian Riedel
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01:22 sri it was more about maintainability, and less about features
01:23 sri our biggest module is now like 600 well commented lines
01:23 sri and the average more like 300
01:34 crab gah. i just spent several minutes trying to figure out why git diff cc4e0d8..master -- lib/Mojo/IOLOop.pm didn't show any changes
01:36 * sri wonders if there's a better name for IOWatcher
01:37 sri and if Mojo::IOLoop::* classes should maybe moved into another namespace
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01:52 echosystm is there anything similar to Catalyst::Controller::Rest in mojo?
01:52 echosystm http://search.cpan.org/~bobtfish/Catalyst-Act​ion-REST-0.90/lib/Catalyst/Controller/REST.pm
01:52 echosystm automatic serialisation/deserialisation
01:52 echosystm etc.
01:53 sri what else than json do you need and why?
01:54 echosystm i dont need anything other than json
01:54 sri :)
01:54 echosystm i just want to have message bodies automatically parsed
01:54 echosystm instead of having to go "from_json" "to_json" all the time
01:55 sri $self->req->json
01:55 sri $self->render_json(...)
01:57 echosystm what happens if they havent posted/put json?
01:57 sri undef
01:58 echosystm right, so you have to check that manually, every time
01:58 sri what is the alternative?
01:58 echosystm specify in your route "this is what i expect to recieve"
01:59 echosystm if that isnt provided, then the router will do error handling automatically
01:59 sri that's a higher level
01:59 sri you could build that on top of mojolicious though
02:00 sri in many different ways
02:01 echosystm ok
02:01 echosystm let me show you what i want to do
02:01 echosystm perhaps you can suggest a way
02:01 echosystm http://search.cpan.org/~rjbs/Te​st-Deep-0.108/lib/Test/Deep.pod
02:01 echosystm have a look at that first
02:02 echosystm its a library for validating perl data structures
02:02 echosystm i want to provide my routes with the validation structure to check against
02:03 echosystm if any post/put data doesnt validate, it should automatically return bad request
02:03 echosystm furthermore, if a request doesnt have accept: app/json or */*, then it should return not acceptable etc.
02:04 echosystm manually checking data for _every_ route is going to be a huge pain in the butt
02:04 echosystm is there any way to achieve this in mojo?
02:05 echosystm is there some other framework i should be using entirely?
02:05 echosystm i want to use perl for this project, but i havent seen any frameworks that do REST particularly well
02:07 Alias Catalyst is a bit heavy, but it has a decent REST layer you can add to it
02:07 echosystm im not really a fan of catalyst
02:07 echosystm its too big
02:07 echosystm my requirements dont really justify it
02:07 echosystm my app is actually really simpel
02:08 Alias Then do you really need REST?
02:08 echosystm yes
02:08 echosystm im writing a web service and i dont want to use SOAP :P
02:09 echosystm maybe i can extend "conditions" somehow
02:09 Alias Web services don't need to be REST necesarily
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02:14 sri echosystm: that's trivial in mojolicious
02:14 sri echosystm: you could validate in a "bridge"
02:15 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Moj​olicious/Guides/Routing#Bridges
02:15 echosystm cool
02:16 * sri needs to sleep
02:16 sri nn
02:16 crab i was going to suggest using a bridge too
02:17 crab i do it that way all the time, and it works well
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02:17 crab you can add a routing shortcut to help create validated routes too
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02:57 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-PlackMiddleware 0.15 by JAMADAM - http://metacpan.org/release/JAMADAM/Mo​jolicious-Plugin-PlackMiddleware-0.15/" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/95326833989517312
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03:10 tempire has anyone tried the full disk encryption in lion?
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03:53 perlrocks Twitter: "The LWP mojolicious:: without a UserAgent, Mojo:: What You Should Use the UserAgent? The model is used where a separate or unrelated?" (ja) --clicktx http://twitter.com/clicktx​/status/95340993771081729
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07:46 marcus morning
07:46 * marcus wonders wtf .jp, as usual
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08:18 crab morning, marcus.
08:18 marcus morning crab.
08:18 * marcus is back in the office.
08:18 marcus They've lifted the blockade :)
08:18 marcus or at least move it 100 meters further up the road
08:19 marcus looking at a guy in a lift now.
08:21 marcus windows are being replaced
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09:01 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-PlackMiddleware 0.16 by JAMADAM - http://metacpan.org/release/JAMADAM/Mo​jolicious-Plugin-PlackMiddleware-0.16/" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/95418376452718592
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10:12 [R] sri: can helper methods be outsourced in own files somehow?
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10:25 sri good morning fellow death star owners
10:32 sri hmm
10:32 sri apparently our frontpage exampe is a little broken
10:32 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojolicio.us/pull/2
10:33 sri we need a pretty solution, quick
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10:53 crab print scalar localtime instead?
10:55 marcus sprintf?
10:55 purl sprintf is the only sane way to do fixed width numeric printing or the floating point version of the long distance phone company or ok. i was doing a bunch of pack/unpack recently so it is fresh
10:55 crab marcus: that's what the patch does, and what sri wants to make prettier.
10:55 marcus I think it's pretty
10:55 * marcus is a sick puppy :)
10:56 marcus but I would drop the map
10:56 marcus sprintf takes a list
10:57 crab yes, sprintf "%02d:%02d:%02d", (localtime...) seems ok.
10:57 crab i wouldn't worry about its being too ugly in this context.
10:57 marcus crab: agree
10:58 sri what do you mean, i wouldn't worry?
10:59 sri good example is important, and i was never really happy with the one we have
11:00 crab sri: i mean that changing the current example to use sprintf isn't going to make it "ugly"
11:00 crab replacing it with a better example is a different matter.
11:01 crab what are you not happy with, specifically? you don't think it's a compelling example?
11:01 sri http://pastie.org/2267777 # that is your suggestion?
11:02 marcus sri: that looks good to me
11:02 sri (localtime(time))[1, 2, 3] does not look very nice
11:03 crab i'd rename $clock to $time or $now, and put a space before the %>, but yes
11:04 crab oh, i think the localtime thing is fine. but if you really want, why not say just "my $now = localtime;"?
11:05 crab but i think it's fine as-is.
11:05 crab (maybe i'd remove the (time) bit, but that's all)
11:05 * sri is unsure
11:06 sri http://pastie.org/2267798
11:06 sri seems more friendly
11:06 sri less clever, but gets the point across without scaring perl newbies
11:07 crab sri: why localtime(time) and not just localtime?
11:08 sri trying to bring the point across that it's perl, not some custom language
11:08 crab ah.
11:08 sri http://pastie.org/2267798
11:09 sri maybe something in between the giant example and this
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11:13 sri oh i know!
11:15 sri http://pastie.org/2267798
11:15 sri brings the point across perfectly!
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11:18 GitHub85 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/b8​a7c8960d58f419073fc62d201e358943fcc990
11:18 GitHub85 [mojo/master] improved example template - Sebastian Riedel
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11:24 sri and it's live
11:27 sri feels more "modern" imo
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11:31 sri not enought people are aware that Time::Piece is a core module now anyway :)
11:31 crab that is pretty nice. i didn't know Time::Piece was in core now. i think i might use it myself, in places where i currently use POSIX::strftime.
11:31 sri haha
11:31 crab hehe
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11:39 MisterHatt sri: got the new emplate example live anywhere?
11:40 MisterHatt not like it's hard to generate a new app and look tho...
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12:11 sri MisterHatt: the website example
12:11 sri http://mojolicio.us/
12:11 sri it's live
12:12 MisterHatt ah
12:17 MisterHatt hmm, so if I was wanting to have a completely separate handler for my admin pages, I could route to myapp::admin and then have routes defined there to controllers in it?
12:17 MisterHatt or more to the point that would be the better way to handle it
12:17 * MisterHatt really needs to read more docu...
12:17 MisterHatt or pretend to be a coder less, either or
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12:24 crab routes defined where to controllers in what?
12:25 MisterHatt yeah my thoughts exactly
12:25 MisterHatt so hacking up a little blog/wiki combined thing here
12:25 MisterHatt wanting some administration for it tho
12:26 MisterHatt soat first I had just an admin controller but it got really cluttered, so I wondered about passing the entire /admin route to an admin mojo base and then having routes defined there for it, and passing them off to their own controllers
12:26 MisterHatt but now I'm wondering if that is overcomplicated or just plain stupid
12:27 sri that's actually easy
12:27 sri ->to(namespace => 'MyApp::Admin')
12:28 sri controller and action will be appended to that as usual
12:28 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Gui​des/Routing#Route_To_Class_28_namespace_29
12:30 MisterHatt sri: I read it in the docs, my question was more about if that is a good idea or not
12:30 MisterHatt and if I direct all admin stuff to the namespace, can I still define further routes in that namespace :S
12:30 sri well, if the result looks more pretty than what you have now the answer is yes
12:31 MisterHatt hmm, how would you go about such a thing?
12:31 sri namespace is a default value, child routes inherit *all* default values
12:32 MisterHatt I see
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13:44 bpaluch Hey I'm going a little crazy with functions saying they aren't defined in other packages... Are there any tricks to using loader properly? I'm kind of following the FastNotes example for building a Model class but when I try using a function like insert I get undefined sub error.
13:46 bpaluch http://pastie.org/2268414
13:51 sri bpaluch: why don't you check for errors?
13:52 bpaluch not sure what I"m looking for to be honest.
13:52 sri jst don't use Mojo::Loader unless you know exactly why you're using it
13:52 sri *+u
13:54 bpaluch is loader where my problem exists then? I'll go read the doc.
13:54 sri i have no idea
13:54 sri but i know you're using loader wrong, which might hide errors
13:54 bpaluch gotcha
13:55 bpaluch following the fastnotes example may be my issue because its old and not updated.
13:55 bpaluch I think it may have some older practices in it.
13:55 sri i know nothing about fastnotes i'm afraid
13:56 stephan48 its on the example applications page
13:57 bpaluch yeah but its quite old now.
13:57 bpaluch doesn't even compile.
13:57 sri but if it tells you to do Mojo::Loader->load($module); then it never was very good
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13:58 stephan48 sri: it loads Models via Mojo::Loader
13:59 sri stephan48: doing that without checking for exceptions is asking for trouble
13:59 stephan48 ye
13:59 bpaluch if I want to load all my models, should I use something like   $loader->load($_) for @{$loader->search('ChannelStore::Model')};
13:59 stephan48 no
13:59 bpaluch how would I check for exceptions then?
13:59 sri bpaluch: just look at the Mojo::Loader documentation
13:59 stephan48 use a loop and check for exceptions like explained on Mojo::Loader docu
14:00 bpaluch ok
14:00 stephan48 the fastnotes example still works but could take some adaptions i guess
14:00 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/Loader#load
14:00 bpaluch ok so I combile the loop and the namespace search
14:00 bpaluch combine*
14:01 sri the whole point of ->load is to catch exceptions… that's what makes using it without a check so absurd
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14:07 GitHub120 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/8c​56e7deaccccf2e874abcd5597b11b3f50c2a4c
14:07 GitHub120 [mojo/master] made Mojo::Loader synopsis more foolproof - Sebastian Riedel
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14:10 bpaluch Ah great I can see my errors now. Thanks for clearing that up.
14:12 sri gonna erase all traces of unsafe Mojo::Loader usage from the documentation once and for all
14:13 marcus http://slim-lang.com/
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14:13 GitHub171 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/c1​22e37c483e545ade48cce75e1cd3702f49f314
14:13 GitHub171 [mojo/master] more documentation tweaks - Sebastian Riedel
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14:17 sri marcus: haml without the noise
14:17 marcus sri: yepp. judofyr has contributed to it apparently. He said it would be easier to make a perl port than with ruby
14:18 marcus sri: not as ruby centric
14:18 marcus than with haml even
14:21 sri yea, it seems easy to port
14:22 sri design is quite smart
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14:30 sri one thing i don't quite get though
14:30 sri why do ruby folks accept significant whitespace in their template engines?
14:31 sri but insist do/end is better than significant whitespace for ruby
14:32 sri it's the same with yaml
14:32 sri and of course coffeescript
14:33 sri python would be much more in line with those
14:43 marcus yeah, I don't understand it either
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14:46 GitHub49 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/7d​392d60df878cf14a5247e3a1b858fcd86f2311
14:46 GitHub49 [mojo/master] updated .gitignore - Sebastian Riedel
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15:09 diegok sri: ruby folks accept whitespace?, on html generation?, a lot of them are using haml I think...
15:11 sri yes, and that's weird
15:11 sri they also accept yaml and coffeescript
15:11 diegok sri: well, in my experience, they accept a lot of things "because is the rails way"
15:12 diegok slim looks nice..
15:18 bpaluch ok my last question for the day. I'm not sure if I'm doing something really passing my hash ref or if this is a bug or something I'm not doing correctly  http://pastie.org/2268800   why isn't the output of Dumper the same if I use it on the reference before I pass it to the sub, and inside of the sub?
15:19 bpaluch *not sure if I"m doing something wrong with passing my hash
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15:25 sri bpaluch: my $ref = pop;
15:25 sri first argument is the class
15:26 bpaluch oh..
15:26 bpaluch is that a mojo specific thing? or a normal perl thing
15:26 sri very normal perl thing :)
15:27 sri Class->method is uncommon though
15:27 bpaluch -sigh- I've been using perl for basic scripting for a while, but never anything in multiple files or with making my own modules
15:27 sri it would be normal to call ->new on a class and all other methods on the instance
15:27 bpaluch thought I would take a full dive with mojolicious and some poc stuff my boss wants.
15:28 sri you should spend a week with the new llama book
15:28 bpaluch Hmm I have a few plane flights coming up, I will pick one up.
15:29 sri http://oreilly.com/catalog/0636920018452/
15:31 sri hmm, maybe that's too basic
15:32 * sri wonders which one is the best book for basic perl oo and modules
15:33 sri http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596102067 # intermediate seems better
15:36 bpaluch Think I've been through an earlier version of the first one a few years ago, give the intermediate a shot for the airplane.
15:39 sri http://onyxneon.com/books/modern_perl/ # this is not bad either
15:40 bpaluch ooo a free pdf
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15:44 sri and epub
15:45 mattastrophe and a quick read and very good :)
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16:58 perlrocks Twitter: "@kraih We are building non-blocking FastCGI/Plack implementation to run #mojolicious on IIS. Can you help please?" --govorunov http://twitter.com/govoruno​v/status/95538404732841985
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17:26 sri interesting there's now MYMETA.json
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17:32 marcus sounds like great platform for a nonblocking app… :p
17:33 sri sounds hopeless
17:33 marcus sri: I like programming perl. I just gave an ancient copy to judofyr
17:34 sri will be nice to have a new edition of it
17:34 marcus yeah
17:34 marcus hmm, he got a 2. edition copy :D
17:35 sri xD
17:35 marcus that doesn't even cover 5.6
17:35 marcus maybe I should just buy him the ned edition of learning perl
17:36 marcus even if it covers bareword IO :-Z
17:36 sri it covers the basics really well
17:36 marcus yea
17:37 sri but i think intermediate is a must have as well
17:37 marcus guess I can buy both
17:37 marcus and get a third for free
17:37 sri new edition is still a few months away
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17:37 marcus oh
17:37 marcus suck
17:37 sri oh, a year away
17:37 sri November 2012 xD
17:38 marcus old one is from 2006 tho
17:38 marcus not so bad
17:38 sri ye
17:38 sri the topics seem pretty up to date
17:39 sri but maybe chromatics approach to explaining oo perl is better
17:39 sri starting with moose
17:39 sri i don't like how he seels it as the end all answer, but it might be the best way to start
17:40 sri *sells
17:41 marcus mm
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18:07 sri hmm, think i'll upload a new release
18:07 Akron Is there a "last" for Mojo::DOM::Collections? Or do I have to figure this out with CSS selectors (in which I'm really bad)?
18:08 sri ->[-1]
18:08 sri ?
18:08 Akron Stupid me ... ! Thanks! Of course!
18:08 sri :)
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18:09 GitHub179 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/42​b0606c33d842a7bb34d682bba8943c9b5e5f56
18:09 GitHub179 [mojo/master] release preparations - Sebastian Riedel
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18:13 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 1.65 by SRI - http://metacpan.org/release/SRI/Mojolicious-1.65/" (ms) --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/95557382788235264
18:15 perlrocks Twitter: "Released #mojolicious 1.65 with EV support and many small improvements. :) http://t.co/0grI1qZ #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/95557784367673344
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19:11 xantus[] sri: so you rewrote EV?
19:11 xantus[] er, IOWatcher::EV
19:12 sri xantus[]: ye, works quite well now
19:12 xantus[] I what about test()
19:12 xantus[] that works fine?
19:13 sri made it pass all old tests and then added new ones
19:13 sri of course i had to add a multi instance workaround
19:13 xantus[] a singleton?
19:13 purl hmmm... a singleton is just a glorified global variable for languages that don't have them
19:14 sri EV *is* the singleton, if there are more than one instances needed we make normal IO::Poll ones
19:15 sri considering we usually do that to emulate blocking it's not a big deal
19:15 xantus[] you can have mulitple loops - new EV::Loop
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19:15 sri those are tied to the main EV loop i think
19:15 sri i've tried a few things and never got past the EV singleton
19:15 xantus[] yeah, I think so too
19:16 xantus[] I was having issues with multiple loops
19:16 sri well, if someone can make it work, great, but no big deal if not
19:18 xantus[] In a recent change. I tried to not to define $handle in a sub where I have a closure
19:18 xantus[] to avoid any leaks
19:19 xantus[] I changed the call to shift self and fileno $_[0]
19:19 sri you last version leaked $self i think
19:19 xantus[] yeah, forgot to weaken it
19:20 xantus[] I believe perl will leak $handle too even though its not used in the closure
19:21 xantus[] I saw this when mucking in POE internals back in the day :)
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19:21 sri well, i can't really do much stress testing atm
19:21 sri sucks how much i depended on ab for that :S
19:21 xantus[] yeah, something to note
19:21 xantus[] hehe
19:22 * sri wants to strangle some lions
19:22 xantus[] the docs for <remove> are doubled in EV.pm
19:22 sri fixed already
19:22 sri a lot of patches after the big one
19:23 xantus[] ah, I was looking at the first diff
19:23 xantus[] I'm glad to see that get in
19:23 xantus[] time to work in AnyEvent support?
19:24 sri not sure abot AE
19:24 xantus[] http://search.cpan.org/~mleh​mann/AnyEvent-5.34/lib/AE.pm
19:24 xantus[] yea
19:24 sri nono, i mean AnyEvent in general ;p
19:25 sri with EV the cool part is covered
19:26 sri think i'd rather like to see Mojo::IOWatcher::AnyEvent as a separate distribution
19:26 xantus[] true, I only want to support AnyEvent modules being used /w Mojo
19:27 sri i've not looked, but can't you hook AnyEvent into a running EV loop?
19:27 sri maybe it already works if you have EV
19:30 perlrocks Twitter: "♺ @kraih: Released #mojolicious 1.65 with EV support and many small improvements. :) http://t.co/0grI1qZ #perl ☝ C00L!" --Metztli_IT http://twitter.com/Metztli_​IT/status/95576564527415296
19:36 perlrocks Twitter: "showed two colleagues mojolicious - imbued with, and said that now they are happy:) the guys used to CGI.pm" (ru) --dolbanavt http://twitter.com/dolbanav​t/status/95578143317962753
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20:33 perlrocks Twitter: "Tried Mojolicious. It's too much hassle getting Template Toolkit to work. Bye Mojolicious. Hi Dancer!" --robertjacobsen http://twitter.com/robertjaco​bsen/status/95592556657778688
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20:35 sri installing one module is hard?
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20:39 perlrocks Twitter: "@kraih I installed MojoX::Renderer::TT, which seemingly didn't want to cooperate with Mojolicious::Lite to render TT." --robertjacobsen http://twitter.com/robertjaco​bsen/status/95594125444923392
20:40 perlrocks Twitter: "@kraih On further inspection, I should perhaps have gone for Mojolicious::Plugin::TtRenderer. Let's try that." --robertjacobsen http://twitter.com/robertjaco​bsen/status/95594240805060608
20:42 sri the TT renderer seriously needs to be cleaned up though
20:42 sri the whole MojoX::* garbage needs to go
20:42 sri i'll file a ticket against asks repository i guess
20:45 sri https://github.com/abh/mojox-renderer-tt/issues/12
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20:53 sri but seriously, that ticket is open half a year
20:54 sri would be nice if someone could fork the renderer so we are done with it
20:54 sri call it Mojolicious::Plugin::Template
21:08 marcus bah, humbug.
21:08 * marcus goes to bed
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21:50 sri interesting, mysql adds memcached api
21:50 sri http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/arti​cles/nosql-to-mysql-with-memcached.html
21:58 sri marcus: the plugin name is stupid though
21:58 sri ::Tt
21:58 sri should have been ::Template
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22:22 GitHub192 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/d7​dbe86a2e46e2b58d414f92266a419e0938cc68
22:22 GitHub192 [mojo/master] documentation tweaks - Sebastian Riedel
22:22 GitHub192 left #mojo
22:30 sri whatever… at least the code is good…
22:39 * sri goes back to having fun with mongodb
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23:12 perlrocks Twitter: "Perl Mojolicious – How to make it handle multiple connections at once? http://goo.gl/fb/NEUMA" --PGoodies http://twitter.com/PGoodie​s/status/95632557856669696
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