Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-07-28

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Time Nick Message
00:02 sri interesting response
00:03 sri seems to be a tie between original and three :o
00:03 sri who would have thought
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00:26 perlrocks Twitter: "#perlcodesample: CSVデータを描画する / Mojoliciousリファレンス http://bit.ly/o8Gds9" --test_of_twitch http://twitter.com/test_of_tw​itch/status/96375868355657728
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00:28 GitHub8 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/eb​20cdd602c411268cd5c0cd6ce760cd6ef75b40
00:28 GitHub8 [mojo/master] more documentation tweaks - Sebastian Riedel
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01:24 sri http://octodex.github.com/#nyantocat # lol
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03:50 perlrocks Twitter: "@ Kraih What do you thing about MongoDB or native BSON in Mojolicious core?" (ru) --mcsseifer http://twitter.com/mcsseife​r/status/96427241587740672
03:52 jamesw two different, though related, things
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05:36 garu is there an easy way to traverse a Mojo::DOM from bottom to top? I mean, $dom->find( 'table#foo > tr' )->each( sub {...} ) ?
05:36 n3m8tz I am running "morbo my_app/script/my_app" - However when I make changes to files they do not take affect until I reload the server - anyone knows why?
05:38 sri n3m8tz: "cd my_app" and try again
05:39 sri morbo --help
05:40 sri garu: not sure what you mean
05:41 n3m8tz awsome! thanks sri ;)
05:45 garu sri: I mean can the collection returned by find() be manipulated as a regular array? the way I know to manipulate the list of found elements is via ->each(), but each goes from first element to last, and I wanted to manipulate them from last to first
05:45 * sri wonders if a this http://pastie.org/2283096 could have a future
05:46 sri garu: the pod actually answers that :)
05:46 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldo​c/Mojo/DOM/Collection#each
05:46 sri look closely
05:50 garu heh
05:50 garu sri++
05:51 garu sorry, I was looking only at Mojo::DOM, should have known better :)
05:51 sri collections are actually blessed arrays ;)
05:51 sri you could even just deref them
05:53 sri the collection class is relatively new, so you don't have to know about it yet
05:55 sri hmm… seems most people still prefer a hardcore template language with significant whitespace or plain old ep
05:58 sri i don't really get it, if you're into significant whitespace why use perl at all?
05:58 sri what makes it ok for markup?
06:02 xaka actually 4 spaces is the silver bullet, not 2 nor 8
06:02 xaka 2 is not enought especially if u have a lot of text on ur screen, 8 is too much
06:03 sri 4 sucks! 2 whitespace forever! :)
06:03 garu sri: by http://pastie.org/2283096 you mean variables without sigils?
06:03 garu 3! 3!
06:04 sri :O
06:04 garu (just to spice up the polemic :P)
06:04 xaka 4 is what people have been using forever :)
06:05 sri garu: nope, i mean the markup
06:05 garu actually, for html, I use 1
06:05 xaka sri: say thanks that it's spaces, not tabs ;)
06:05 sri garu: those are actually helpers
06:05 garu sri: the markup? how is it different than the usual ep?
06:05 sri one.html.mp is the different one :)
06:06 garu oooohhh
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06:06 garu there are two :D
06:06 * garu is slow tonight
06:06 garu 3am
06:06 sri xD
06:07 sri http://pastie.org/2281844 # this is actually the original proposal
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06:07 sri 3 versions
06:07 purl 3 versions is bad planning on someone's part
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06:07 xaka but i think when people will have 96' screens, they'll use 16 spaces, bgg
06:08 garu sri: well, I don't like it basically because (to me) templates mean formatted text that you can interpolate, insert and (maybe) loop through. I hate html/form builders
06:08 sri i'm a bit shocked original and three are the most popular ones atm
06:08 xaka what is mp? (i know i know, i'm sucks)
06:08 sri it's nothing yet
06:09 garu three over two shocks me as well
06:09 garu I guess people are used to haml
06:09 xaka let's cmp 2 vs 4 vs 16
06:09 garu or secrety wish they were doing python >:)
06:10 sri yea, it's so weird
06:10 sri especially ruby folks with their haml, yaml and coffeescript
06:10 xaka sass?
06:10 purl sass is a %$%$£%ing CSS specific templating language that doesn't resemble CSS as much as it could. Use Fing TT.
06:11 sri that has no significant whitespace
06:11 garu but, again, to me those aren't template systems. they're html builders. And html builders (to me) are bad because (a) they are html-only; and (b) devs might love them, but they don't scale well to non-devs designers
06:11 sri but option one looks a bit like sass
06:11 sri or css in general
06:11 purl i guess css in general is kind of bad
06:11 sri i kinda like that
06:11 garu that applies to haml/sass as well
06:12 sri designers these days can program a bit
06:12 sri at least the good ones
06:13 sri and i'm not thinking about a whole new template language, just a html builder that runs before the normal ep engine
06:13 garu sure, the good ones. And to most you can teach basic looping et al, but it's an unnecessary step, makes collaboration harder (for designers that don't care)
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06:14 garu if you wanna make it an optional thing, like a plugin or something - sure, why not :)
06:14 sri i'd say not caring is worse ;p
06:14 garu but please don't change ep :D
06:14 sri yeye, optional of course
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06:14 sri that's why i used .mp in the examples
06:15 garu sri: well, I didn't mean "don't care" like that... I meant people that aren't necessarily involved with your project directly. For example if you're trying to plug a free design from the web
06:15 xaka does mojo support gzip from the box?
06:16 garu in mp you'd have to rewrite the whole thing, whereas in ep you can just <% replace %> stuff :)
06:19 garu again, this is all my own personal opinion. But based on what I've seen, html/form builders are only useful/fun if your web designer is also a dev - which is usually true for simple projects (where most of the time you're the one wearing both hats), but it doesn't scale as good as one would hope
06:19 garu that said, no harm in making it a plugin I guess :)
06:19 xaka hm, dont know, dont know, but RoR + Redmine is really good example of scale such things
06:22 sri oh, sass does of course use significant whitespace too, mixed it up with less
06:24 sri xaka: no gzip
06:24 xaka a u planning to add it? or make no sence because of apache/nginx/...?
06:24 sri doesn't make much sense
06:26 garu xaka: not sure about Redmine, but Rails' .erb files look a lot like Mojo's ep
06:26 sri haml is very popular in rails apps
06:26 garu sri: have you considered Smarty?
06:26 xaka garu: i think vice verse :)
06:27 garu xaka: yeah, well, they're all mason like if we wanna go there :D
06:28 sri don't like smarty at all
06:28 * garu did a Catalyst view for Haml :)
06:28 sri i think haml is actually out again...
06:29 sri at least there's a lot of buzz around http://slim-lang.com/
06:29 garu hmm.. never heard of it
06:29 sri and http://jade-lang.com/
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06:30 garu slim looks like haml
06:30 sri just slimmer ;p
06:31 xaka what the terrible font they use, holly molly
06:31 garu sri: should be "title=Jade" there, no?
06:32 garu finding bugs in their landing page can't be a good sign :D
06:32 sri nope = is an expression
06:32 sri and - is code
06:32 garu oh
06:32 garu pageTitle is a variable then
06:32 garu I see
06:32 stephan48 what was the link to the mojo store?
06:33 stephan48 or rather sris store for tshirts?
06:33 garu not sure I like it though... I mean, looks a bit troublesome
06:33 garu stephan48: spreadshirt.com
06:34 sri stephan48: it's on the website
06:35 garu http://kraih.spreadshirt.co.uk/
06:41 stephan48 �thanks
06:41 stephan48 i tried it with sri.spreadshirt.de but noth with kraih ;)
06:48 garu yeah... perl has dual vars, sri has dual nicks :P
06:49 garu wow, my jokes grow worse as I get sleepier
06:49 garu (not that they were fun before :P)
06:49 sri heh
06:49 garu anyway, 4am here so I guess is time for me to get some sleep
06:50 garu night everyone :)
06:50 sri i blame the internet… turns out sri is already taken on pretty much any site out there
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06:50 sri nn
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08:12 perlrocks Twitter: "@kraih three.html.mp, but it will be also useful to mark tags anyway so strings can go without quotes. #perl #mojolicious" --freekey http://twitter.com/freekey​/status/96493101417369600
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12:11 perlrocks Twitter: "@mithaldu Yes, I'm a #mojolicious user :) But a templating language actually does both markup and acts as programming language ;)" --perlninja http://twitter.com/perlninj​a/status/96553259614998528
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12:32 rhaen helo!
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12:46 perlrocks Twitter: "That's enough poking my eyes out with ruby and or rails tonight... i'm stealing some of these features & porting them to Mojolicious tho ;)" --fremnet http://twitter.com/fremnet​/status/96562047478804481
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14:25 sri diegok: the point of marking data instead of markup is that you normally spend much more time on markup
14:26 diegok sri: hm, could be, data, in my case came from i18n or data store.
14:27 sri see
14:27 diegok sri: but I'm probably used to those kind of templates marking tags (haml, slim) and liked it...
14:28 sri slim also marks data instead of markup
14:29 diegok sri: it's intended to be logicless?, or login will be inline?, or what :)
14:29 sri it's a markup generator, logic comes from ep on top of it
14:29 diegok hm, right. slim mark code :)
14:30 diegok sri: sweet, I like it :)
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14:32 diegok sri: what's the option you like the more?, which option wins on other feedback you've got?
14:33 sri it's a tie between original, one and three now
14:33 sri personally i think i prefer one
14:34 sri makes markup look a bit like css
14:35 diegok sri: well, I prefer 3, but I dislike 2. One looks more like old CGI code generator to me, not bad.
14:36 crab i dislike them all.
14:36 sri no clear winner means i most likely won't even start working on it
14:37 diegok crab: hm... do you like any of those kind of templates?
14:39 crab no, but i haven't seen many.
14:39 diegok sri: A designer working with me also do some templating for rails projects using haml and he loves it. He is always telling me how he prefer haml over all other templating I make him use (TT and ep)
14:40 sri the cool kids use slim
14:41 diegok crab: well, I've used haml and I like it, slim also looks good but never used it. I think I like the idea around all of those.
14:43 * diegok those cool kids...
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15:53 mspo isn't everything in ruby cool?
16:21 perlrocks Twitter: "Cool, #mojolicious is the first #perl project to reach 100 forks on #github. :) http://t.co/WSuUMPE" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/96616251249524736
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16:29 mhi Wow. :)
16:36 alnewkirk is anyone working on a Rails for Perl/Mojo yet?
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17:40 perlrocks Twitter: "Twitter client in the prototype Mojolicious Amon2 (not "Lite") tried to transplant to the sentiment. mojo is a habit of porting to copy and paste into almost a good or easy to grasp the structure from scratch is more Amon2 wrote earlier. Templates." (ja) --hwatattama http://twitter.com/hwatatta​ma/status/96636204056981504
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18:08 zakame_ wait, wut?
18:14 sri :)
18:31 sri interesting, firefox has an epub addon
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18:53 perlrocks Twitter: "Sorosoro AnyEvent:: Twitter:: ... the move to set up a Stream Mojolicious:: Lite and easy to do I" (ja) --lapis_tw http://twitter.com/lapis_t​w/status/96654501582344192
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20:40 minimalist what's up with "daemon --reload"? It doesn't reload anymore. Mojo version 1.64.
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20:45 sri minimalist: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc​/Mojolicious/Lite#Reloading
20:46 sri you'll also see a warning for --reload if you're using  more recent version
20:47 sri *+a
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21:17 perlrocks Twitter: "$self->res->headers->header('X-Bender' => 'Bite my shiny metal ass!'); <- from #mojolicious docs #lol #perl #winning" --tomaszmiklas http://twitter.com/tomaszmik​las/status/96690730852028416
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21:32 GitHub59 [mojo] kraih pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/kraih/moj​o/compare/eb20cdd...0148f28
21:32 GitHub59 [mojo/master] documentation tweaks - Sebastian Riedel
21:32 GitHub59 [mojo/master] a few more documentation tweaks - Sebastian Riedel
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21:35 GitHub9 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/d8​674e2443701c3f35a938c4d2af869171b9c2bc
21:35 GitHub9 [mojo/master] fixed a few prompts - Sebastian Riedel
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21:40 sri wonder if the hello world example on the site should still use "perl hello.pl daemon"
21:40 sri "morbo hello.pl" might be better
21:40 minimalist is morbo out of beta yet?
21:41 mhi sri: I asked myself the same when I began reading it yesterday.
21:41 sri minimalist: why would that matter?
21:42 minimalist it wouldn't, but I remember reading about memory leaks and crashes on the forums
21:42 sri the old loading code was not beta and sucked badly :)
21:42 sri haha
21:43 sri morbo is soooooooo much better than --reload it's ridiculous
21:43 sri --reload always leaked memory like crazy
21:43 sri it's actually funny you worry about it
21:44 sri in fact, morbo is prolly the best restarter perl has to offer, considering it works stable on windows
21:45 minimalist sounds good, man. thanks for the good work!
21:45 sri my pleasure :)
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21:48 GitHub138 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/a0​2d5d8b8ddd25cddfc5fdb0b980f5a8ba26ed89
21:48 GitHub138 [mojo/master] recommend morbo consistently - Sebastian Riedel
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21:51 sri yea, that looks better
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23:55 GitHub19 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/5c​58fb2af8ffedd23455e35d92359b72ff194cd6
23:55 GitHub19 [mojo/master] moved is_ipv4 and is_ipv6 methods from Mojo::URL to Mojo::IOLoop::Resolver - Sebastian Riedel
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23:58 GitHub157 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/98​b321b46aa6ad137794a1e408607e73d3d28e0c
23:58 GitHub157 [mojo/master] fixed typo - Sebastian Riedel
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