Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-08-03

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03:32 perlrocks Twitter: "# Linux # opensource Mojolicious:: Plugin:: PlackMiddleware 0:21 http://bit.ly/q5CMV3 # DhilipSiva" (id) --DhilipSiva_linx http://twitter.com/DhilipSiva_​linx/status/98596999858888704
03:33 perlrocks Twitter: "# Linux # opensource Mojolicious:: Plugin:: PlackMiddleware 0:21 DhilipSivaDhilipSiva_linx http://bit.ly/q5CMV3 #: # l. .. http://bit.ly/nYTayO" (id) --MaryUnix http://twitter.com/MaryUni​x/status/98597426159554560
03:58 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious::Plugin::PlackMiddleware 0.21: Plack::Middleware inside Mojolicious http://twurl.nl/dmkawg" --lordnaastik http://twitter.com/lordnaast​ik/status/98603556575252480
03:58 perlrocks Twitter: "New release: Mojolicious::Plugin::PlackMiddleware 0.21 http://bit.ly/qnxtDM" --softpedialinux http://twitter.com/softpedial​inux/status/98603557397331968
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06:38 GitHub115 [mojo] kraih force-pushed master from 41c1ef8 to e66b3ce: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commits/master
06:38 GitHub115 [mojo/master] fixed memory leak in Mojo::IOLoop::Client - Sebastian Riedel
06:38 GitHub115 [mojo/master] fixed small bug in Mojo::IOLoop::Server - Sebastian Riedel
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06:45 GitHub151 [mojo/master] documentation tweaks - Sebastian Riedel
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09:08 GitHub4 [mojo/master] fixed memory leak in Mojolicious and improved documentation - Sebastian Riedel
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09:11 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc​/Mojolicious/Controller#ua
09:11 sri i think the parallel non-blocking example will explain triggers best
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09:18 GitHub106 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/ca​e1cd2910061e5d658b0aa3c4bc34e3bb1ec52a
09:18 GitHub106 [mojo/master] smaller example - Sebastian Riedel
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09:19 sri maybe that's better
09:24 sri think that really explains why the name trigger is appropriate
09:25 sri i'm still open for better name ideas though
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09:42 GitHub71 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/61​91e3aeac82e1e48289c8d4032caf745217bb89
09:42 GitHub71 [mojo/master] made tests more resilient - Sebastian Riedel
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09:54 sri gonna release later i guess
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10:31 stephan48 when i hav got a table how could i only fetch the first level of children? f.e. i first search for tr in the tree and then i want the td under them? the problem is these td elements contain tables
10:33 stephan48 also, "table:first-of-type > tr" should bring me all trs of the first table in the document or?
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10:52 sri trying should be a lot easier than asking in this case ;p
10:53 stephan48 ye
10:53 sri the get command is great for that stuff
10:53 stephan48 yap
10:54 stephan48 the part with the tds i used was correct, but i found out i got some content from other tables!
10:54 stephan48 with some "br+" infront of the expression it worked
11:14 sri ok, last chance to rename trigger
11:14 sri release soon
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11:56 marcus on_dick
12:02 sri ->on_marcus(sub { say "NO!!!1" });
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12:37 elb0w sri, me thinks someones biting off you http://www.viva64.com/en/b/0107/
12:39 marcus certainly seems similar :p
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12:50 marcus on_dick(sub { jmp });
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13:54 sri damn… http://yfrog.com/z/keq2vjp looks sweet
13:56 elb0w what about it?
13:56 elb0w the theme?
13:56 purl the theme is "You are in a maze of twisty little libraries, all alike."
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14:11 sri no, the app itself
14:12 sri kinda what i was expecting from textmate 2
14:12 elb0w Have you seen sublime
14:12 elb0w ?
14:12 sri yea, it's not good enough yet
14:13 elb0w think ill stick with vim
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14:14 sri i like vim for small stuff, but not for working on big projects
14:14 sri switching between a hundred files gets annoying
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14:20 elb0w vsp tabe
14:20 elb0w :o
14:20 elb0w yeah I see what you are saying
14:20 elb0w but once I got used to all the hot keys and macros its hard for me to swap
14:22 perlrocks Twitter: "Recently I feel is Codeigniter. After that I want to use the framework of the study par-less Mojolicious. http://bit.ly/pwUufV" (ja) --HidenoriSuzuki http://twitter.com/HidenoriSu​zuki/status/98760577463234560
14:24 marcus sri: I am in chocolat, alphatesting your app.
14:25 sri :O
14:25 sri I HATE YOU!
14:26 marcus sri: judofyr knows the developer, got me an invite.
14:26 marcus the advantage of hiring young leet ruby guys :p
14:26 sri -.-
14:27 sri sneaky marcus, always planning ten moves ahead
14:29 marcus :)
14:33 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 1.69 by SRI - http://metacpan.org/release/SRI/Mojolicious-1.69/" (ms) --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/98763322089947136
14:36 perlrocks Twitter: "Released #mojolicious 1.69 with a few important bugfixes and improvements, enjoy. :) http://t.co/euv3Owh #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/98764153178689536
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14:44 GitHub139 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/0d​25a135dfed6e45e0a6b78c5c51df67394240f5
14:44 GitHub139 [mojo/master] better parallel request example - Sebastian Riedel
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14:52 sri that also answers a commonly asked question
14:53 sri how those old parallel but blocking requests we once supported would look now
14:54 sri http://pastie.org/2314578 # anything that still needs to be explained?
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14:54 marcus sri: we're using that functionality in the tvguide :)
14:55 sri now you can do it with style :)
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14:55 marcus yeah, much nicer.
14:57 sri something like https://github.com/creationix/step might be nice to
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15:02 sri would actually fit into the trigger api :)
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15:05 marcus yepp
15:05 sri http://pastie.org/2314656
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15:08 marcus sri: you shouldn't be using pastie...
15:08 marcus "Use Pastie in your quest to save humanity, not in your evil plots to take over the world! "
15:08 sri oh
15:08 sri what's the pastie for evil plans?
15:09 marcus snit.ch
15:09 sri :D
15:09 marcus oh, it's dead
15:09 sri :(
15:09 * sri actually tried paste.oracle.com
15:09 marcus that is pretty evil
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15:13 sri hmm… step would have been a good name for trigger too
15:14 judofyr sri: what's the best way to run a Trigger in a separate ioloop?
15:14 judofyr I need to fire some parallel requests and do something when they're all done
15:14 sri it's bound to the ioloop you create it with
15:15 judofyr but I assume that Trigger::start doesn't quite work as expected when there's already an ioloop-running (i.e. in a Mojolicious-app)
15:15 sri that actually doesn't matter
15:16 sri you want to use a fresh ioloop and have it block everything until finished?
15:16 judofyr just block the controller
15:16 sri you can't
15:17 judofyr so I'll have to use render_later + callbacks then?
15:17 sri yes
15:17 sri while it would be easy to pass control back to the outer ioloop your server would ultimately die from it
15:18 sri due to deep recursion
15:18 sri when more requests arrive
15:19 sri whole reason why fibers/coroutines are so popular, they are the only remotely sane way to make non-blocking apis look blocking
15:20 judofyr indeed
15:20 judofyr I love fibers in Ruby :)
15:20 judofyr sri: also, is subclassing Trigger a sane approach (where I'll implement methods that use begin and end)? I'm new to both Perl and Mojo so I'm not quite sure what you should and should not subclass…
15:20 sri Coro is similar in Perl
15:20 judofyr any reason you don't use it in Mojo?
15:20 sri it's a heavy prereq and there have been stability issues
15:22 sri sadly there's no sane threads/coroutine support in perl core "/
15:23 sri *:/
15:23 judofyr :(
15:24 sri anyway, what would you subclass trigger for?
15:24 judofyr well, I guess it makes just as much sense to just proxy ::on to the trigger
15:25 judofyr just so the caller can do: $para->do_api_call(); $para->on('done', sub {});
15:26 sri don't think i would go there
15:26 sri triggers are more of an end user thing
15:27 judofyr I don't want to have triggers in every controller I use…
15:28 judofyr it's a quite common case in this app: fetch lots of resources in parallel; present them when they're all loaded
15:29 sri i see
15:29 sri sounds like it could be abstracted away in a helper
15:30 sri don't know how your api looks like though
15:30 judofyr it's essentially ->search(either string or hashref)
15:31 judofyr but yeah, I agree that it's something that probably should be abstracted away
15:31 sri and that one search goes out to several servers?
15:31 judofyr one search goes to one server (using UserAgent); we have several search in one controller
15:32 sri ah
15:33 * sri starts to understand
15:33 sri so there actually is no separate ioloop
15:34 judofyr right now, there's nothing :)
15:34 judofyr but yeah, I don't *need* a separate ioloop
15:34 sri non-blocking requests always use Mojo::IOLoop->singleton
15:34 judofyr would it make any sense to use a separate ioloop?
15:34 judofyr I guess not…
15:34 sri not at all
15:34 judofyr good :)
15:35 sri it seems all fine the way it is :)
15:35 crab when do you ever need another ioloop? only when something needs to block?
15:35 sri triggers are really just there to make synchronizing multiple requests easier
15:35 sri crab: yea, only to emulate blocking
15:36 sri (with and without coroutines)
15:38 sri actually the main problem with making a coroutine plugin work are keep alive connections… since we would need a new shareable pool
15:40 judofyr sri: would this API make sense: http://pastie.org/private/aaublrnqnrsz0sp9azu42w or is the "return empty objects that are suddenly filled with stuff" too magic?
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15:40 crab i don't think that's too magic at all.
15:40 sri uncommon though
15:41 judofyr what would be the common way to handle parallel requests (that's abstracted away)?
15:41 sri normal would be to pass arguments to the callback
15:41 crab i've seen it quite often (in conjunction with some sort of ->is_done() method)
15:42 judofyr sri: so it's like search(…, sub { $posts = shift })?
15:42 sri with a trigger you could pass stuff to ->end(…) which gets appended to a shared array which then gets passed to the callback automatically
15:42 judofyr these requests are not always the same type, so it wouldn't make sense to get a shared array
15:42 sri ye
15:43 sri well, you could have container objects or so
15:43 judofyr it could be "search for 5 people and 5 posts" which should all be handled in parallel
15:44 sri for my $thingy (@_) { given (ref $thingy) { when ('MyPost') {…} } }
15:45 sri naive, but you get the idea
15:45 judofyr yeah
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15:46 judofyr seems more noisy and hassle than "fill up objects when they're done"
15:46 sri i'm sure there are more abstract solutions
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15:47 sri is there any common module that fills up a data structure?
15:48 * sri fails to think of any
15:48 judofyr not that I know… but I don't really know Perl :)
15:48 crab sri: Storable ;-)
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15:49 sri crab: it doesn't create new ones?
15:49 sri (or doesn't have to?)
15:51 sri in the pastie code, the returned data structure would start out empty, and only get filled later on right before the callback gets called
15:52 crab oh, it's not an object?
15:52 sri it could be, but it's empty at first
15:53 crab hum, well. maybe a little weird then.
15:53 crab what is this "RTB" that ilya skorik is trying to use in his templates?
15:53 sri the advantage is that you don't have to mess with @_ to find again what is what
15:54 * sri has no idea what RTB is
15:56 crab it's funny how people use their own terminology with complete confidence that everyone will understand it
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16:09 judofyr sri: alright, thanks for the help!
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16:10 judofyr I'll come back when I have a solution/problem/question :)
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17:11 perlrocks Twitter: "OMG. After upgrade chrome to dev version, # websocket and @ mojolicious start working without code change." (ru) --korjavin http://twitter.com/korjavi​n/status/98803155831238656
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18:11 rhaen Holiday time.
18:11 rhaen Time for some mojolicious things.
18:11 rhaen I tried to get onto node.js - which is an awesome thing.
18:11 rhaen However, you have to assemble everything by hand - like DOM things.
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18:12 rhaen which is great with Mojolicious. Everything in a box. Fully loaded, fully operational.
18:12 rhaen Cool
18:12 rhaen _sri: sri++
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18:22 _sri :)
18:28 elb0w I've been thinking of learning node.js
18:28 elb0w is it worth it?
18:28 purl Could be.
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18:54 GitHub12 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/52​d454f9b9a8e07454b72b1e0bce86c84bcbae60
18:54 GitHub12 [mojo/master] added extended callback support to Mojo::IOLoop::Trigger - Sebastian Riedel
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18:55 _sri elb0w: learning something new is always good
18:57 elb0w Well its either node.js finish learning haskell or dive deeper into python
18:57 elb0w dunno what to do
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18:59 GitHub74 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/71​d2c9d581d12ad080094dbad24f0e61ad27b65e
18:59 GitHub74 [mojo/master] made trigger.t more reliable - Sebastian Riedel
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19:00 _sri given those choices i think i'd go with haskell
19:00 _sri it's more different
19:01 _sri new perspective and all
19:01 elb0w Yeah, its pretty interesting
19:15 _sri http://pastie.org/2315837 # which example is better?
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19:25 elb0w less is more
19:25 elb0w like the latter
19:32 _sri i'll use both :)
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19:33 GitHub64 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/a1​c859208afc94df11df1c2510a48e6f71e2903c
19:33 GitHub64 [mojo/master] added cookbook recipe - Sebastian Riedel
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19:39 rhaen Learning Javascript (the new one) is fun.
19:39 rhaen it's pretty amazing what you can do with it.
19:39 rhaen However, node is just an interpreter - nothing more.
19:40 rhaen So you still have all those dependency issues to other libraries.
19:40 rhaen If you deal with dom things, jquery is a nice option and is well maintained.
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19:40 GitHub90 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/f8​866f8191775179d0fd14a8890baefde4cfb96f
19:40 GitHub90 [mojo/master] extended recipe - Sebastian Riedel
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19:40 rhaen I wonder if this is the case for everything.
19:41 rhaen Mojo is alot simpler. Everything in one box. Well named - at least after one schema.
19:41 rhaen Learn one piece and you are able to deal with the full blown stack.
19:41 _sri the interpreter is actually v8 ;p
19:41 rhaen _sri: true. node is the platform :)
19:43 rhaen I started with node due to some mobile application needs.
19:43 rhaen webos has a builtin node - which is pretty nice
19:44 _sri webos is dead though
19:44 rhaen _sri: nah, I just bought a new mobile - HP veer.
19:44 rhaen It will rock! :)
19:44 _sri doubt hp can ever make it work, even windows phone has a hard time
19:45 _sri two mobile platforms are the max imo
19:45 rhaen which will be android and ios?
19:45 _sri yea
19:46 _sri in fact, i don't even know if windows phone has an app store :)
19:46 rhaen it has, well something similar
19:53 _sri btw. re interesting languages http://haxe.org
19:53 _sri that one compiles to just about everything
19:55 _sri one language to rule them all
20:04 elb0w Do you guys use || for default values in subs?
20:08 _sri // is i can
20:08 elb0w you use // ?
20:08 _sri s/is/if/
20:09 elb0w I never use //
20:09 elb0w whats its name so I can read about it
20:09 _sri it's like || but checks for defined instead of true
20:09 elb0w ah
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20:23 rhaen hmpf. this mojo stuff is still nice.
20:25 elb0w I am thinking of re-doing http://localery.com in mojolicious
20:26 perlrocks Twitter: "node.js with JavaScript or #Mojolicious and Perl for web related questions/issues/topics? I'll stick with Mojolicious. #mojo #perl" --rabenfeder http://twitter.com/rabenfed​er/status/98852139631247360
20:26 perlrocks Twitter: "@kraih I'm using it on the mojolicious site skykitteh.com - though without the perl support yet. Need to upgrade." --ollej http://twitter.com/ollej/status/98852305356595200
20:31 elb0w Wow we apparently name well here at my firm. "use ConfigReader::configReader;"
20:31 elb0w lmao
20:32 _sri ouch
20:32 _sri rhaen: retweeted :)
20:32 rhaen _sri: :)
20:32 rhaen I really need to get back on the mojo train
20:33 rhaen this time: client site.
20:33 rhaen err client side.
20:33 rhaen I felt in love with Mojo::DOM
20:34 _sri was that before or after the recent api update?
20:34 _sri because it got *a lot* better
20:35 rhaen oh, it was before the update.
20:35 _sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/DOM#SYNOPSIS # tree walking and hash access to attributes
20:35 rhaen I was totally busy in the last weeks and lost contact to the mojo development
20:36 rhaen time to reconnect.
20:36 _sri heh, that should be really fun then :)
20:36 rhaen A sample everyday. I use Mojo::DOM to write Nagios plugins for my employer :)
20:38 elb0w So all bless does is give it a class name?
20:39 elb0w sorry bad habbit of asking questions in here :x
20:39 elb0w :O
20:39 _sri that's what this channel is for
20:39 elb0w yeah but I feel bad asking perl questions in a channel on mojo
20:40 _sri every now and then it's allright, especially since you're contributing to discussions all day ;)
20:40 elb0w like a boss
20:40 elb0w :o
20:40 elb0w I love irssi, leave it open all the non techs think im just a mad coder haha
20:41 chansen _sri++ # newbieness
20:41 elb0w helps that I buy your shirts
20:41 elb0w haha
20:42 * _sri is totally bribeable
20:43 elb0w You should make decals like this guy, http://www.etsy.com/listing/70693110/​awyea-face-black-vinyl-decal-5-x-3081
20:43 chansen hehe
20:43 elb0w the material he uses is awesome.
20:44 elb0w Id put a vomiting unicorn raptor on my mbp
20:44 elb0w lol
20:44 _sri :D
20:44 elb0w Put the challenge accepted on it, holding up pretty nice
20:46 rhaen you are brickable?
20:47 elb0w brickable?
20:47 _sri i hope not
20:47 elb0w lmao
20:47 rhaen are bribeable...
20:47 rhaen ok ok ok :) got it
20:48 elb0w http://www.urbandictionary.c​om/define.php?term=brickable would of been funnier
20:48 _sri oh my
20:49 rhaen on the good old icb servers there was a "brick" command
20:49 rhaen which allowed you to "brick" someone.
20:49 * rhaen bricks sri.
20:52 rhaen something like this way.
20:53 _sri if i was human that sure would have hurt
20:54 rhaen yup.
20:55 rhaen but it was a nice way to express feelings about broken builds due to makefile changes :)
20:55 xantus[] i knew it, sri is AI
20:55 rhaen or toolchain changes
20:56 _sri according to rumors i'm either skynet or a bending unit 22
20:59 _sri however, neither of those cases will change your fate puny humans!
21:03 _sri http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/​08/when-patents-attack-android.html # will be interesting to see how this plays out
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21:10 _sri Zzz
21:10 _sri nn
21:14 elb0w I need a cool fish tank
21:15 elb0w for my house
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22:29 perlrocks Twitter: "[Mojolicious] CSRF Protection? I found a plugin: https://github.com/shiba-yu36/p5​-Mojolicious-Plugin-CSRFDefender" (ja) --PerlCafe http://twitter.com/PerlCaf​e/status/98883086846132224
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