Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-08-10

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:02 alnewkirk tempire, doesnt seem like many commented on your article on blog.perl.org but i thought it was good
01:03 tempire thanks
01:03 tempire It's ok.  I don't need comments.
01:03 tempire I did it because it would have helped me, and I know at least two people who wanted to know.
01:03 tempire and it increases exposure
01:04 alnewkirk true dat
01:04 purl double true
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01:14 tempire I rarely comment on ironman posts.  but I read, or at least skim every one.
01:15 * tempire is a lone voice among the crowd of speakers
01:15 perlrocks Twitter: "As seen when installing Mojolicious on windows "skipped: Windows is too fragile for this test!". Awesome :)" --gidjin http://twitter.com/gidjin/​status/101099202783879168
01:15 jwang it seems like many ironman posts don't get that many comments
01:16 jwang I was wondering if something like HN for perl blogs might get more comments going
01:16 jwang I've also been thinking it might be useful to have a discus/FB comments type plugin for HN. so when a post does hit HN, the comments can show up on a blog as well
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01:21 tempire that's an internet-wide problem
01:21 jwang low comment rate?
01:21 alnewkirk the problem with comments are how easy they are to leave
01:21 tempire the synchronization of social across different postings
01:21 jwang reddit has 15 comments for the dancer post but the blog only has 1
01:22 alnewkirk blogs with plugins to add comments using your google, facebook, twitter, etc .. acounts tend to have more comments
01:22 tempire facebook and google+ synchronize it well
01:22 tempire but that's just within their networks
01:22 jwang HN has 10 comments for the dander post
01:22 tempire I would love to have a service that syncs all the likes/+1 between networks
01:22 jwang it seems like there should be a good way for bloggers to capture the comments on Reddit/HN etc on to their own source blog
01:23 tempire same idea for the comments
01:23 tempire well
01:23 tempire sounds like your next project
01:23 tempire perfect for mojo::dom
01:23 tempire that wouldn't be hard, actually
01:23 jwang alnewkirk: I agree, with google/FB/twitter comments you are part of that community
01:23 tempire just have a small module for each site/network
01:23 tempire using mojo::dom to parse would be simple enough
01:23 jwang I've been thinking about the area for a bit but haven't come to a conclusion yet
01:24 jwang some blogs have both FB comments and Discus
01:24 tempire there's also the issue of identity
01:24 alnewkirk blogs with disqus makes it easy to leave a comment
01:24 tempire I leave a comment on Facebook, but have a separate account for disqus
01:25 tempire linking them automatically creates privacy issues
01:25 tempire so you have to manually do it
01:25 alnewkirk being forced to create an account to leave a bullshit comment isnt worth it
01:25 tempire stack overflow handles that alright
01:25 jwang maybe there could be an app that manages circles
01:25 alnewkirk I only did it on reddit because tempire asked me to
01:25 jwang except you have a different identity per circle, like FB, Google+, HN, Twitter ;)
01:26 tempire the underlying problem is that most people don't understand that a "user" is a munging of 5 or 6 different things.
01:26 jwang and the circle-management app can automatically create bs accunts for you
01:26 tempire even google and Facebook and twitter haven't seemed to figure that out yet
01:27 jwang FB has figured it out, but they want to munge it into 1 meta thing
01:27 jwang so they nudge you that way
01:27 tempire not really
01:28 tempire or maybe, and they don't have a market reason to implement it
01:28 jwang I mean they figured it out from an idea perspective and have decided not to implement it
01:28 jwang but instead nudge you a different way
01:29 jwang Zuck's vision is 1 identity
01:29 tempire nothingmuch had a blog entry that really did an excellent job of laying it out
01:30 jwang he's been pretty quiet lately
01:31 jwang but there should be a way to aggregate likes and comments - at least for ones that one wants to aggregate
01:31 alnewkirk http://anainc.tumblr.com/post​/7506335857/google-explained
01:33 jwang it just seems like sites like HN, Reddit, etc. suck the life out of blog comments
01:33 tempire reddit is painful
01:33 jwang and there should be a way for the blog to show those
01:34 jwang why is it painful?
01:35 jwang I don't use it
01:35 tempire when I've checked it out, I found the comments to be overwhelmingly negative and trollish
01:35 tempire Though to be fair, I don't have a lot of experience with it
01:36 tempire I only had mojocasts posted on reddit 'cause sri said so
01:36 tempire and even then, I had a regular reddit user do it
01:36 jwang once you allow voting human nature needs to be controlled
01:37 jwang once of my friends ran a vertical community site so I got to hear the horror stories, complaints, etc.
01:37 tempire vertical community?
01:38 jwang subject area specific
01:38 jwang as opposed to say twitter which is everything
01:38 tempire http://blog.woobling.org/2009/06/user​s-accounts-identities-and-roles.html
01:39 jwang at yapc, someone asked if I'm going to add voting to gb
01:39 tempire nothingmuch's blog on identity
01:39 jwang I think it would be useful, but there are the attendant issues to deal with
01:39 tempire I suspect it's like any other community
01:39 tempire there have to be some folks who take ownership because they care about it
01:40 tempire officially or otherwise
01:45 jwang yeah, if you don't get that core community, it won't really take off, then it looks like a ghosttown
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03:02 alnewkirk fake it til you make it
03:02 alnewkirk aye purl
03:03 alnewkirk bots bots bots
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03:08 jwang airbnb? :)
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04:04 * alnewkirk is checking out http://silex-project.org/, i was impressed by the github numbers so i followed
04:05 alnewkirk ... he link that is
04:05 alnewkirk *the
04:06 jwang Sinatra has started a trend
04:06 alnewkirk route variables converters seems like it could be a great idea, .. bbut trtouble in the wrong hands
04:32 perlrocks Twitter: "Sakura's fastest Mojolicious Standard:: Lite application to move! http://sgp.cm/4a3a8f" (ja) --Wslash http://twitter.com/Wslash/​status/101148781164232704
05:20 marcus g00d m0rning
05:36 marcus I really don't understand why people are calling perl ugly, rather than PHP. (Looking at Silex)
05:36 marcus also not impressed by the need for mod_rewrite...
05:37 marcus I mean srsly - http://silex-project.org/doc/usage.html
05:38 alnewkirk marcus, i agree
05:38 alnewkirk the syntax is horrid
05:39 jwang is it the PHP people that call Perl ugly or the Ruby/Python folks?
05:40 marcus jwang: I guess mostly ruby/python people. A lot of the ruby guys come from php, so I guess we remind them of their horrid past ;)
05:40 jwang most people that call perl ugly point to perl4isms
05:40 marcus mhm
05:41 jwang I wrote this in a morning: http://www.dev411.com/typo/themes/
05:41 jwang the Typo guys wanted me to open source it but changed their mind when I told them it was in Perl ;)
05:41 jwang I showed them the code and they were pretty impressed by how clean it was
05:41 marcus :D
05:41 jwang I think most people just have a knee jerk reaction
05:41 marcus jwang: Is typo good?
05:41 jwang to old perl4 code
05:42 jwang it's ok but I haven't used it in a long while
05:42 marcus jwang: possibly. Perl has it's warts to be sure.
05:42 jwang though it's still being actively developed
05:43 marcus jwang: http://www.dev411.com/wiki/Installing_Typo​:_MySQL%2C_Apache%2C_lighttpd_and_FastCGI returns a blank page =)
05:43 jwang I think it's time for that wiki to die ;)
05:43 jwang the info on dev411.com is so old now
05:44 marcus jwang: guess it figured that out by itself
05:44 jwang marcus: yep, low priority, I just upgraded PHP on that box
05:44 jwang marcus: I also run wordpress on it but now WP won't upgrade unless I have mysql 5
05:44 jwang ugh
05:45 marcus jwang: Yeah, I've been using wordpress a bit as well. It's the only dynamic blog I've found with a decent webgui. The codebase is horrific tho
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05:46 marcus jwang: seems all the good developers just write blogs for themselves, and blog from a text editor :)
05:46 alnewkirk heres a thougt
05:47 jwang marcus: that's what I hear, I've always used the web gui myself
05:47 alnewkirk hosted cms db and admin ui with distributed front-end framework
05:47 jwang marcus: I think the thing about WP is that it's maintained and there's a community. most other blog platforms never seem to get enough users
05:48 alnewkirk jwang, its has other benefits also
05:49 alnewkirk the "famous" x second install, written in php which is easily deployable, yada yada
05:50 jwang alnewkirk: just about all PHP apps have a x second install, wordpress, mediawiki, phpbb
05:52 jwang alnewkirk: goes back to what I was talking about before. sri mentioned we should get PHP guys but the entire mindset of PHP is the opposite of CPAN
05:52 alnewkirk most all php apps use mysql as their db, apache only as their web server
05:52 jwang alnewkirk: super easy installs
05:52 alnewkirk ... funny how the most popular language box you into a certain way of doing things
05:53 jwang alnewkirk: I wouldn't say that, they support pgsql, mongodb, bson, etc.
05:53 alnewkirk right, but as you said, most apps use mysql, apache, etc
05:53 jwang alnewkirk: I'm not sure they consider it being boxed in
05:54 jwang alnewkirk: some people don't want to deal with libraries, incompatibilities, perlbrew, pythonbrew
05:55 alnewkirk Perl is all about the configuration which means that if you dont have the wisdom or experience, you could pend quite a long tme bumping your head about the proper way to get something done.
05:55 jwang alnewkirk: I mentioned earlier too that with perl you _have_ to have a staging server before you upgrade CPAN modules because quite likely your app will break
05:55 jwang alnewkirk: PHP's limited library use means that almost never happens
05:56 alnewkirk jwang, not limited, self-contained
05:56 jwang alnewkirk: not just that, you need to be willing to allocate the time for each release
05:56 jwang alnewkirk: but it's the same for ruby/python as perl
05:56 alnewkirk .. and we have tools like local::lib and App::Fatpacker to do the same
05:56 jwang yes, but many PHP people probably don't want to do that
05:57 jwang it's like when the mod_php guys were happy about performance. perl told them we have mod_perl
05:57 jwang but that's not the answer they wanted
05:57 alnewkirk you lost me
05:58 jwang with local::lib, each app needs its own library set
05:58 jwang so instead of breaking the app, old apps just get out of date and never upgraded :p
05:58 alnewkirk that how most php apps are shipped
05:59 alnewkirk and rightfully so most times
05:59 marcus jwang: well, most php apps are monolithic blobs. It's less effort to update a local::lib than to update your own proprietary libraries.
06:00 alnewkirk yup
06:00 marcus anyways, mojolicious is a very good basis for writing easily deployed perl apps, I think. You can even bundle it with your app :)
06:00 alnewkirk think about how an app like wordpress would be developed using Perl
06:00 alnewkirk arrggh
06:00 marcus would be even easier if sri ever released his mongodb drivers. Then you could make nicely full fledged apps with just mojolicious and mongodb
06:00 jwang I've just been burned with perl upgrades breaking a lot of my apps
06:00 alnewkirk :}
06:00 jwang so I'm much more cautious now
06:01 marcus a burnt child smells bad
06:01 marcus or something
06:01 jwang yep, better not to have them
06:01 jwang even upgrading perl broke my apps - b/c I was doing something I probably shouldn't have been doing
06:02 marcus jwang: naughty naughty
06:02 alnewkirk I love mongodb, ... i miss the lack of GUI tools but that comes with using new tech
06:02 jwang I didn't know about $#$ so I was using $#{@$ ... and voila it all broke
06:02 marcus I'm trying to do development on 5.14.1
06:02 marcus no sense in not using the latest perl hotness in my own apps at least.
06:03 marcus even if I can't on cpan libraries
06:03 jwang I'm impressed what I've heard about 5.14. perl 5 seems to have renewed energy
06:04 marcus I specially like http://search.cpan.org/~jesse/perl-5.14.0/​pod/perldelta.pod#Syntactical_Enhancements
06:04 jwang I'm not sure how Larry feels about that :p
06:04 alnewkirk i asked sri if I could contribute to his MongoDB driver (as you put it), he said ! exists $mongodb_drivers;
06:05 jwang there was a lot of perl 5 rah rah at yapc. I talked to larry about p6 and basically he said the spec was all done but implementation was hard
06:05 alnewkirk im pretty good at API design
06:06 jwang contribute to where?
06:06 marcus alnewkirk: sri lies :p
06:06 alnewkirk marcus, i kno
06:07 marcus ooh, skype supports iPad now. I totally missed that
06:09 jwang anyone know of a swipe library that allows swiping left-right, native scrolling up-down and native pinch-zoom?
06:10 marcus jwang: UITouch :p
06:10 jwang I have an iPad and iPhone now - my only apple products
06:10 marcus jwang: but I'm guessing you're talking about html5
06:10 * alnewkirk wants some google stock
06:10 marcus we use iScroll for the native scrolling
06:11 jwang I found a jQuery library for left-right swipe, native scrolling, but it still locks out pinch-zoom
06:12 * alnewkirk remembers minority report
06:13 jwang marcus: yeah, I want to add swiping to gb but not ready to give up the other stuff
06:14 marcus jwang: We do a lot of native ios development in obj-c
06:15 jwang marcus: I 've been thinking about a few ios apps, but one thing at a time
06:18 jwang marcus: how do you like obj-c?
06:19 marcus jwang: It's ok. Better than c++ :) And Apple's APIs and Class documentation are excellent.
06:20 marcus jwang: and there's been a steady improvement since I've been working on the platform. iOS5 looks to be the best ever. Specially because of ARC (memory management)
06:21 jwang marcus: good to know. after I got the ipad I almost never use the webbrowser on my iphone anymore
06:22 marcus jwang: $daughter occupies the ipad more than me, tbh :)
06:23 marcus I've actually been using the kindle more than anything at home lately. Reading a song of fire and ice :)
06:23 marcus of ice and fire even
06:23 jwang marcus: after I got the ipad, I was like, magazines are so dead :p I'll never buy another one
06:24 marcus jwang: yeah, it's nice for magazines I guess. I have a new yorker subscription going on it.
06:24 marcus jwang: I find the eink screens more comfortable for long reads tho
06:25 jwang yeah, the annoying thing is some people want you to pay when you're on the ipad, ny post or something
06:25 jwang yeah, eink is much better for your eyes from what I hear
06:25 marcus jwang: well, you pay for paper magazines too :)
06:25 jwang marcus: I'm not sure I would want to read a book on the ipad
06:25 jwang marcus: most of the time I just read them at the stand and put them back - this is the US ;)
06:29 jwang marcus: though I have thought of subscribing to NYTimes or something - b/c they gave us NYTProf
06:30 marcus :D
06:31 jwang I'm debating whether I should blog or just put up a page describing some of my projects
06:32 jwang and also debating whether I should archive my old articles or just have them disappear ;)
06:34 * alnewkirk goes to get some ice-cream at 3am
06:36 jwang nice
06:39 marcus heh, it's 8am here :)
06:39 jwang almost midnight here
06:40 jwang building my 2nd 16GB home computer
06:40 jwang so, after swearing off all desktops to only get laptops, I now have 2 NAS at 6TB and 2 16GB workstations :p
06:45 marcus jwang: yay :D
06:45 marcus jwang: I've only got a drobo connected to a mini under my tv
06:46 marcus the rest is laptop
06:47 jwang marcus: drobo looks nice. I really like going the all laptop route but I need the horsepower to wrap up gb. I get frustrated by how long things take ;)
06:48 marcus jwang: mbp with i7 + ssd is plenty fast for me.
06:49 jwang yeah but $$$
06:49 jwang for my work, I'm not sure i7 will help. I can probably get away with more i5s
06:50 jwang it's not just speed, I need to process 10,000,000s of emails for gb
06:50 jwang so they are going to be working all the time
06:50 marcus jwang: well, sounds like ssd would help a lot
06:51 jwang marcus: CPU gets maxed out before disk - from reading top / free / iostat
06:52 marcus uh
06:52 marcus weird
06:52 marcus :)
06:53 jwang yeah
06:54 jwang each conversion process seems to max out a core at 90-100%. if I run two processes, top reads 50-55% but somehow they seem to take much longer to finish. not sure why yet
06:55 tempire i7+ssd ++
06:55 tempire sometimes I look down on the people with regular hard drives and sigh
06:55 jwang I got a ssd for my db server a while back
06:56 jwang but then I found out Dell's PECL RAID contoller couldn't handle a mix of SAS and SATA and all the spinning disks were SAS
06:56 jwang :(
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06:57 jwang though my new machine is a 2600k
06:58 jwang a Sandy Bridge i7
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07:14 alnewkirk would you consider Mojolicious a meta web app framework?
07:18 * sri yawns
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07:54 * sri switches back to bash from zsh
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08:49 mhi sri: Of course I have to ask 'why?' now. :>
08:50 sri but i'm not saying!
08:51 mhi Hmpf!
08:52 sri maybe i'm too used to bash… but zsh makes way to much noise for my taste
08:52 sri *+o
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08:53 mhi Well, the only real difference to my old bash config is the great completion. It helped me learning git a lot back then. :-P
08:54 * sri already has bash-autocomplete with git-autocomplete
08:56 sri i'm sure zsh can be configured in a way i would like too… but i spent like hours trying to find the right documentation without much luck
08:57 mhi To be honest most of my stuff is stolen, too.
08:57 mhi zshall(1) is 17630 lines..
08:57 mhi It's impossible to find the stuff you're searching for there. :>
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08:58 sri a simple tutorial going through the config options would have been enough for a start :S
08:59 * mhi nods
08:59 sri well, for the good old bash i just pick up the oreilly cookbook from the bookshelf
08:59 sri the from bash to zsh book seemed good at first… but got really confusing fast
09:04 sri and most of the good autocomplete i can get with bash too, like "perldoc Moj<tab>"
09:11 * rhaen yawns.
09:14 mhi sri: Can you shell do this?! (git config svn[tab]): http://i.imgur.com/5x5Ii.png
09:15 mhi No idea what's rwrong with svn.pager and svn.color, though. :-P
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09:17 stephan48 they are undocumented?
09:18 mhi You think zsh groups names with the same description on the same line?
09:20 sri oh, just found _why's .zshrc
09:20 sri now that's a setup i can live with!
09:20 * mhi googles
09:22 stephan48 mhi: idk, i dont even use zsh, you could maybe dig into the autocompletion rules and find out :)
09:23 mhi Ah, sorry. I thought that was a back answer. ;)
09:24 stephan48 jo just a wild guess
09:24 mhi I used to love configuring stuff.. my vimrc is growing for years now. But I somehow got tired of it.. I try to spend more time developing than configuring nowadays. :)
09:24 stephan48 ;)
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09:54 perlrocks Twitter: "2nd Episode of the Mojocast - wonderful screen cast about the Mojolicious  web framework  by @tempiretech http://mojocasts.com/e2" --szabgab http://twitter.com/szabgab​/status/101229835225014272
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10:23 sri hmm
10:23 sri anyone know how i make zsh break long lines automatically?
10:24 sri it's annoying how it goes beyond the terminal width by default
10:27 mhi It does?
10:27 * purl stays quiet
10:27 DaTa setopt no_single_line_zle
10:29 mhi The manpage says it only gets set if the zsh is invoked as ksh.
10:29 sri doesn't work :(
10:30 mhi Does for me. :x
10:31 sri interesting
10:31 sri my prompt screws it up
10:32 * marcus managed to set window titles in iterm through PS1, and goes back to development
10:32 mhi Yes.. escape sequences suck. :\
10:32 sri it actually doesn't even do that by default
10:32 sri PS1="%(?/$fg[green]/$fg[red])%~ %# $reset_color"
10:33 sri any obvious mistakes?
10:34 mhi Did you set $reset_color yourself?
10:35 sri nope
10:35 mhi Hmm
10:36 mhi #zsh @ freenode, I guess :)
10:38 sri it's the escapes
10:38 sri as soon as i use a color escape it ignores terminal width
10:39 DaTa i guess #macosx or something :)
10:39 sri :(
10:40 mhi I set the colors myself. Like: orange="%{$(echoti setaf 216)%}" (If you have 256 colors)
10:40 DaTa oh, indeed, your PS1 breaks it here too
10:41 DaTa that's my PS1: PS1='%{$fg_bold[green]%}%n@%m%{$reset_color%} %{$fg_bold[magenta]%}%2~%{$reset_color%} $(git_prompt_info)%{$reset_color%}%B»%b '
10:42 sri i just want colors to change based on exit status :/
10:43 mhi sri: Could you try putting %{ %} around your variables?
10:45 sri and that did it
10:45 sri mhi++
10:45 sri DaTa++
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10:46 mhi =)
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11:01 perlrocks Twitter: "@ & @ Alcides PedroMelo: What is your opinion on the comparison vs. Dancer. Mojolicious? Have preference or is apples vs. oranges?" (pt) --smpb http://twitter.com/smpb/status/101246736273641472
11:08 perlrocks Twitter: "@smpb It's more like apples vs. duct tape. :) http://t.co/fWVzpzV" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/101248442357129217
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11:18 foomator_ hi
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11:45 * sri waves
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12:29 sri oh, hot stuff in the css4 draft
12:29 sri http://dev.w3.org/csswg/selectors4/#subject
12:31 jamesw nice
12:34 mhi For me as a non-webdev it seems the draft makers are faster than the people iplementing them.
12:34 sri hehe, yea
12:34 sri things have changed though
12:34 sri html5 is a moving spec that will never be finished
12:35 mhi Eeks. :)
12:35 sri actually i'm surprised they called this css4 and didn't just add it to css3
12:35 jamesw how long until CS is there
12:35 jamesw CSS
12:37 elb0w_ counter strike source?
12:41 elb0w_ cant get 1 ha ha ha?
12:41 elb0w_ purl: was that funny?
12:41 purl wish i knew, elb0w_
12:44 sri adding selector subject support to Mojo::DOM::CSS would be like a 10 line change :)
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13:24 crab wait, did the world have css3 support yet?
13:27 sri mostly ye
13:28 sri wonder if supporting a css4 feature already would be crazy
13:33 crab i must try some of that table layout stuff in css3 one of these days
13:33 crab how strange it feels to think that i can use shiny new features in web apps
13:34 sri you can't if you want to support old browsers ;p
13:35 mhi What can cool stuff can you do with tables and CSS3?
13:36 mhi Nevermind.
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13:52 sri oh wow
13:52 sri i was spot on
13:52 sri subject support is exaclty a 10 line change
13:52 sri and i have it working already :)
13:52 mhi :-)
13:52 mhi Well done!
13:53 sri mojo get mojolicio.us '#footer > $a > img'
13:53 sri that selects the <a> tag
13:55 sri gonna make sure to mark is as extremely experimental
13:55 sri *mark
13:55 sri umm
13:55 * sri needs coffee
13:55 purl Bloody addict
13:55 sri :(
13:56 alnewkirk sri++
13:56 alnewkirk nice job
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14:17 sri haha, now it's a 5 line change
14:18 sri they really did a great job, pretty much every css engine will be able to implement this in no time
14:23 crab what does it mean?
14:23 alnewkirk sri, can we see the commit?
14:24 alnewkirk I also would like a sneak peek at your fabled mongodb driver/module
14:24 sri naah, gonna write tons of tests and documentation first
14:25 sri mongodb driver is still far away
14:28 alnewkirk solid
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15:35 GitHub160 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/oOz3xf
15:35 GitHub160 [mojo/master] added experimental CSS4 selector subject support to Mojo::DOM::CSS - Sebastian Riedel
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15:35 sri :D
15:38 perlrocks Twitter: "Just added the first experimental #css4 selector to #mojolicious, it's really insanely useful, enjoy! :) http://t.co/Uktm3ar #perl #html5" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/101316600942174208
15:39 mhi The draft will most probably change at least a hundred times before it gets implemented.. but nice one! :P
15:40 sri yea, i only added it because it changes everything
15:41 judofyr pretty sweet
15:41 judofyr (both the spec and the implementation in Mojo)
15:41 sri especially for scraping it's crazy good
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15:55 alnewkirk i always wanted scrappy to do that using selectors but without implementing some fanciful method to do so
15:56 alnewkirk i even considered layering an intermediary language to do special case stuff
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15:58 GitHub42 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/nB3udu
15:58 GitHub42 [mojo/master] more specific example - Sebastian Riedel
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15:58 crab #footer > $a > img means select the #footer > a that contains an img?
15:58 sri that's exactly what ut means
15:58 sri s/u/i/
15:59 sri try "mojo get mojolicio.us '$a > img'"
16:00 sri that makes it more obvious
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17:02 xaka how can i get the request body as json from controller? Will $self->tx->req->json work for me?
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17:30 crab you should try it
17:39 xaka ye, it works
17:40 xaka how can i send JSON request in tests? cant see anything interesting in Test::Mojo docs
17:40 xaka s/see/find/
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17:42 GitHub107 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/qPYL9i
17:42 GitHub107 [mojo/master] cleanup - Sebastian Riedel
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17:46 xaka looks like there should be post_json_ok, i think i need to work on the patch for it
17:49 crab why not use post_ok with a string?
17:50 xaka i'm too lazy to convert everything into json manually
17:52 crab ->post_ok('/blah', $json->encode($data)) is hard?
17:52 crab (where $json is Mojo::JSON->new)
17:53 xaka it's not, but do you really want to have it in every test instead of just post_json_ok("/bla", my_object) which looks simplier and less dependable on Mojo::JSON
17:54 sri next thing we'll have put_json_ok, delete_json_ok, head_json_ok?
17:55 sri posting json is very uncommon, i don't think it needs its own method
17:56 xaka it's the tests, Test::More has a lot "duplicates" which makes your life easy when you write the tests. IMHO
17:56 sri feel free to subclass
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17:57 crab head_json_ok would test if the given json fits in your head
17:57 xaka btw, why there is no encode_json and decode_json exported by Mojo::JSON? Do developer really need to have separate instance of that class?
17:58 sri yes
17:58 xaka what the benefit?
17:58 purl hmmm... the benefit is that the data doesn't need to be swizzled into SVs
17:58 sri it doesn't die
18:28 * marcus just drove damian conway to his hotel
18:28 marcus that sure is short
18:28 marcus that dude
18:28 purl that dude is just a confused person.
18:28 alnewkirk the dude
18:28 purl Where's my car?
18:29 alnewkirk dudearonamy
18:30 marcus Sweet, what does mine say?
18:33 * marcus hates you all for leaving him hanging :-/
18:33 marcus couchbase secured series c funding.
18:34 alnewkirk yet another pointless debate http://goo.gl/E3R6O
18:35 marcus :-/
18:36 * marcus has never heard of Peter Scott before.
18:36 marcus oh, perlmedic
18:36 purl it has been said that perlmedic is about the lamest looking website i have ever seen
18:37 marcus purl: AGREED
18:37 purl Just kidding!
18:37 marcus purl: NO SRSLY!
18:37 purl marcus: what?
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18:43 sri marcus: DUDE!
18:43 marcus yAY
18:43 sri WHAT DOES MINE SAY?
18:44 alnewkirk huh?
18:44 marcus sri: SWEET!
18:44 marcus sri: WHAT DOES MINE SAY?
18:44 sri marcus: DUDE!
18:44 sri marcus: BUT WHAT DOES MINE SAY?
18:44 marcus that python guy is a bit of a douche, really.
18:45 marcus don't think he leaves a favorable image if python
18:45 marcus of
18:45 marcus sri: SWEET!
18:45 marcus WHAT ABOUT MINE?
18:45 sri i don't even know who those guys are
18:46 sri marcus: DUDE!
18:46 sri marcus: WHAT DOES MINE SAY?
18:46 marcus sri: "S - WEE - T"
18:46 marcus sri: WHAT ABOUT MINE?
18:47 marcus sri: the perl guy is the creator of the ugliest perl web site ever seen
18:47 marcus (http://perlmedic.com/)
18:48 sri maybe being a douche is a requirement to join the python foundation
18:49 sri recently seen one of them being a jerk on twitter too
18:49 mhi In fact Python isn't too bad, it's just too many people using it. :-P
18:49 mhi (Many people == many dorks)
18:50 marcus there's actually no python group here in oslo
18:50 marcus there's both a ruby and a perl one tho.
18:51 sri hipster vikings
18:51 marcus represent!
18:52 alnewkirk :}
18:52 marcus judofyr is the hipster tho, not me :)
18:52 marcus he even has an ironic mustache ;)
18:53 xaka no python in norway? oh, i dont like norway anymore, ploho ploho!
18:54 crab this python guy is being an ass
18:54 marcus yeah, he keeps trashing perl rather than talking about the virtues of his language.
18:54 marcus in every round
18:55 crab and this peter scott guy is being quite polite and patient
18:55 alnewkirk i think i can finally use the term, douche-baggery
18:58 mhi Haha, how both of them have to giggle when she says "Keep it friendly. We're all friends."
19:06 mhi Even his first point, where he compares the beards of Wall and van Rossum, is offending somehow.
19:06 mhi Showing a current photo of van Rossum with Google shirt compared to a photo which looks like it's from the 80ies.
19:07 marcus mhi: tbh, larry looks like he's from the 80s ;-)
19:08 mhi Psssh. ;-P
19:08 marcus the python guy forgot to mention that pretty much nobody has migrated to python 3...
19:08 alnewkirk for even more nerdertainment, youtube search "ruby on rails vs ..."
19:09 alnewkirk and that its not backwards compatible
19:12 xaka i've been watching it for 10 minutes, where is blood and war?
19:12 xaka quite boring
19:14 alnewkirk the host is a drag also IMHO
19:15 * mhi nods
19:17 marcus mhi: http://www.wall.org/~larry/
19:21 mhi Yes. :P
19:23 marcus I think Larry most of all reminds me of Flanders from The Simpsons. And I think that is a very good thing for our language =)
19:26 alnewkirk hahahahahaha, nice
19:35 sri okily dokily
19:36 xaka i like the end of the show. A lot of confused people who dont know what to ask about perl vs python :)
19:38 mhi I wonder no side mentioned its awesome thread support!
19:38 * mhi runs away
19:39 tempire wow
19:39 tempire that video is truly pointless
19:40 tempire I'd like to see a fortran vs go debate
19:40 tempire or algol vs nodejs
19:41 mhi clojure vs. common lisp
19:41 tempire those are just too close for me
19:41 mhi forth vs. prolog then
19:42 tempire never heard of forth
19:42 mhi stackoriented language
19:42 mhi it's basically highlevel assembly
19:42 sri prolog syntax makes me want to poke my eyes out
19:42 mhi (yes)
19:43 tempire or a css vs ruby, and make sure the css guy is such a good debater, that he floors the ruby guy in spite of the ridiculousness of it
19:43 tempire now that would be entertainment
19:45 sri chewbacca defense!
19:45 purl Ladies and Gentlemen of the supposed jury, now think about this: Why would Chewbacca, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks?  THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE! or at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_Defense
19:51 mhi (The last point that Python3 is released and Perl6 is not isn't even an argument.)
19:51 mhi Seems to me that the Python guy was trying too hard to find arguments against Python. I should have watched an episode of Falling Skies instead!
19:54 crab tempire: SQL vs. HTML?
19:54 xaka ))
19:56 alnewkirk the perl guy completely missed that Perl does/did in-fact have a few new releases (versions) ... iterations
19:56 alnewkirk ... because he was to busy trying to defend the perl 6 crack
20:15 alnewkirk tempire, feed me more tutorials
20:17 tempire http://bit.ly/oZk5Vp
20:19 mhi hahaha
20:23 tempire whoever posted the article by steve yegge, you're awesome.
20:24 tempire even reading the article, without doing anything it says, is enlightening
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20:24 crab what article?
20:25 tempire http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2​007/06/rich-programmer-food.html
20:27 tempire I suspect it was marcus
20:27 tempire he always has ems
20:27 tempire *gems
20:31 crab or even geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee​eeeeeramblerambleeeeeeeeeeeems
20:57 alnewkirk random that it is: i just realized that FB backwards is BF
21:15 tempire mojocasts was worth it just for the two batches of cookies
21:17 sri :D
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