Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-08-15

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Time Nick Message
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04:07 perlrocks Twitter: "The more. <DBIx in Mojolicious:: Mojolicious example if you use Custom - GitHub http://t.co/cOXvNua" (ja) --clicktx http://twitter.com/clicktx​/status/102954660121423873
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06:03 tempire hmm
06:03 tempire mojo generate plugin my_plugin
06:05 tempire a command that generates the directory structure for and boilerplate for Mojolicious::Plugin::MyPlugin, and includes a script that can upload it to pause
06:06 tempire would be great to break down the conceptual barrier of making plugins and submitting them to cpan
06:06 tempire especially for those who have never done it before
06:06 tempire there's a huge mindspace barrier for that.
06:07 stephan48 yap!
06:07 stephan48 and some sample pod
06:08 stephan48 i am always to lazy to write my stuff in a propper structure for a plugin, document it and make it cpan ready!
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06:43 perlrocks Twitter: "I cannot access to mojolicious darmon http on Mac OS Lion (Macbook Air 2011). Why?" (ja) --nyarla http://twitter.com/nyarla/​status/102993770903126016
06:47 perlrocks Twitter: "@nyarla join us and find out at #mojo on irc.perl.org" --alnewkirkassoc http://twitter.com/alnewkirkas​soc/status/102994850529558529
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07:38 nickl hi, i'm trying to use morbo on win7 but I find that it doesn't reload any of my changes and to quit it I have to hit ctrl-c about 20 times. Are these known win7 issues?
07:39 nickl mojolicious 1.77 btw
07:40 nickl and strawberry perl 5.12.0
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08:20 alnewkirk nickl, define doesn't reload my files?
08:22 nickl alnewkirk:  if i edit a controller or a template, then the changes are not picked up by morbo until I manually restart it
08:23 alnewkirk works for me, try perl -Ilib script\scriptname daemon --reload
08:23 alnewkirk see if that works
08:28 nickl alnewkirk: --reload doesn't work either (i read somewhere  this functionality was removed)
08:29 nickl alnewkirk: but it looks like morbo works ok if I run it from my app root
08:29 nickl alnewkirk: e.g. morbo script\myapp
08:30 nickl alnewkirk: instead of  'morbo myapp' from inside the script folder, as I was doing before
08:30 nickl so all good now :)
08:30 nickl thanks
08:31 alnewkirk yup
08:32 nickl I guess the paths to be watched are set relative to the pwd - not relative to the script location
08:38 alnewkirk as per the docs, morbo nor perl is run from the script dir
08:39 alnewkirk that would imply perl -I../lib script meaning everything would need to move back a dir which is horrid
08:41 nickl well, the docs show this example: $ morbo hello.pl
08:41 nickl which to me suggeted  its running from within the script dir
08:42 nickl maybe they should show: $ morbo script/hello.pl
08:42 nickl so people know to run from the app root
08:44 alnewkirk where, what doc? is that in Mojolicious::Lite or Mojolicious
08:44 nickl both
08:44 alnewkirk link please
08:44 purl somebody said link was awesome.
08:44 nickl eg http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/​Mojolicious#Getting_Started
08:46 nickl and http://mojolicio.us/perldoc​/Mojolicious/Lite#Reloading
08:47 alnewkirk nickl, wow dude, both of them "clearly" reference Mojolicious::Lite apps which are generated without the other scaffolding so no script dir should exist
08:48 alnewkirk see the bit where it says use Mojolicious::Lite; ... and the second URL even say M::Lite in the URL :}
08:48 nickl fair enough - but if it confused me it will confuse others - its the only mention of morbo in either doc
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08:50 alnewkirk nickl, its not confusing, your not reading the docs ... i often do the same thing when putting together ikea furniture, ... then I end up with nuts and bolts left over
08:51 nickl fwiw, the thought pattern here is... 1. how do i run morbo? 2. go to the mojolicious docs  3. find 'morbo' 4. use the example without reading in detail
08:51 nickl because i was looking at the mojolicious docs I didn't expect to find examples for lite
08:52 nickl and because it seemed to work ok (at first) I thought i had it right
08:52 nickl its no biggie, but could be made more newbie friendly
08:53 alnewkirk how do i run morbo? ... morbo --help
08:53 alnewkirk what I'm saying to you will help you in the future with Mojo and other POD
08:54 marcus Redis is neat!
08:54 nickl yeah good point :)
08:54 alnewkirk read the documentation in its entirety because (context) is important
08:54 alnewkirk Redis sucks ass
08:54 alnewkirk pardon my -french-
08:55 alnewkirk mongo is it
08:55 nickl alnewkirk: who sits down to read the documentation in its entirety for anything?
08:55 marcus alnewkirk: I think they are useful for different things.
08:55 alnewkirk though, the could've went the extra step with simple queries, ... the left out ordering, wtf
08:56 marcus alnewkirk: sorted set?
08:56 alnewkirk marcus, i dont follow?
08:56 alnewkirk nickl, im resisting the obvious answer
08:56 nickl :)
09:00 marcus alnewkirk: $redis->zadd("foo:bar:sorted",@list);
09:01 alnewkirk marcus, fetch sorted on the mongo side is what I was talking about, you have to map-reduce just to sort, ... BS
09:01 alnewkirk can you in redis?
09:04 marcus alnewkirk: uhm, MongoDB::Collection::find supports sort_by
09:04 marcus alnewkirk: seems in redis you have to store the data ordered
09:05 alnewkirk marcus, sorry, i misspoke, I meant to say they could've implemented a standard grouping mechanism which is a quite common type of query
09:06 alnewkirk they tout mongo as being better because i has simple query syntax so you dont have to m/r everything ....
09:07 alnewkirk which is true but they could've add grouping, .. m/r is the big guns and grouping is not a (big guns) operation
09:21 alnewkirk marcus, sri, seen this .. https://metacpan.org/module/MorboDB
09:29 marcus hmm
09:29 marcus this talk says the html5 spec isn't done yet.
09:29 marcus I thought it was a living spec
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10:12 sri marcus: it is a living spec
10:15 sri but who knows what the status is this week
10:16 sri it seems they are actuallt planning to finish it again with a 2014 target date
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11:05 sri http://www.cpantesters.org​/distro/M/Mojolicious.html # looks like we have a 64 bit problem on perl 5.8
11:06 sri just gonna disable the test i guess
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11:10 GitHub32 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/ovzTGg
11:10 GitHub32 [mojo/master] fixed "websocket_lite_app.t" to require Perl 5.10+ - Sebastian Riedel
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11:42 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojocast #2: Placeholders, methods, and formats http://t.co/ksO8jFj #perl #web #mojolicious" --robinsmidsrod http://twitter.com/robinsmids​rod/status/103069064880078848
11:46 sri wow, google is buying motorola, wonder what they are up to
11:46 marcus sri: patents?
11:46 purl patents is http://www.patents.ibm.com/ or http://www.patents.ibm.com/gallery or http://casweb.cas.org/chempatplus/ or http://www.delphion.com/ or uspto.org
11:47 sri 12 billion is a lot just for patents
11:48 marcus sri: they bid 3.14 for those nortel patents alone, and it did not come with a company.
11:51 sri also wonder what htc and samsung are going to do now
11:55 sri would be funny if they started switching to windows phone once google starts upping the quality standards with their own android phones
11:57 sri but considering that they are keeping motorola a separate company, it's still a possibility that they are just keeping the patents and kill motorola
12:07 alnewkirk oh shit, I was wonder why the spike in their stocks this morning
12:15 sri 24500 patents :o
12:27 marcus I bet they will be going after apple.
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12:59 elb0w right now its just a war to who can get the mostp atents
13:07 bpaluch they are probably trying to build another google phone, the last one failed due to having incredibly poor distro. Moto have the distro.
13:07 bpaluch that and patents.
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14:00 elb0w sri: you guys think youll port to perl6?
14:03 marcus elb0w: sri has said he's waiting for nonblocking socket support in perl6
14:05 sri not like perl6 will be a valid target within the next few years
14:06 sri designing mojolicious with a perl6 port in mind has always been one of the rules (see codingguidelines)
14:07 sri it does seem a bit silly now, but so far i've been sticking with it
14:08 sri tempire: great idea btw
14:08 sri a plugin generator might even be core worthy
14:09 sri might be a good way to balance out the mistakes i made in the past with plugins
14:10 sri especially if it goes into a screencast
14:18 sri tempire: think i'll give it a try :)
14:18 sri mojo generate plugin my_plugin
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14:19 sri mojo upload --user sri --pass secr3t Mojolicious-Plugin-MyPlugin-0.1.tar.gz
14:19 sri no fuzz, just basics
14:21 sri i know it's borderline too much… but encouraging plugins has to be a very high priority
14:21 Skylos Hooray for plugins.
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14:23 * sri would like to hear more opinions… *pokes marcus, crab and tempire*
14:23 sri oh, crab on a business trip again? :S
14:24 sri yko: mind if i steal some of your code for upload support in core?
14:25 yko sure, whatever you want
14:25 sri you can keep the poweruser features, i just want basic uploading
14:25 yko i think i've stolen enough from you before :D
14:25 sri \o/
14:25 sri yko: how did you test it anyway?
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14:26 yko in CPAN::Uploader?
14:26 sri ye
14:26 * marty yawns
14:26 sri i mean, you had to develop against something, no?
14:26 yko via Mojoliicous::Lite there's test. and after it - i use it for uplaoding on cpan
14:26 * marty good morning everyone
14:26 sri ah
14:26 * sri waves
14:27 yko i've build Mojolicious::Lite app that copies PAUSE behavior
14:27 yko in interface, sure. it's all in tests, you can look there
14:27 yko and well, after that i uploaded dozen files to CPAN to make sure it works ok :)
14:27 sri guess i'll upload a mojolicious plugin that does nothign or so, since i need to test the plugin generator anyway :D
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14:28 yko heh. i've build plugin generator long time ago but i'm sure it's broken now and i'll be glad if you release one
14:29 sri yko: i take it, you're in favor of support for both in core? :)
14:30 yko actually i don't think i will have of few hour free time since today and for few month -_-
14:30 yko because today i officially became head of Kiev.pm and it looks like it gonna take all my free time
14:30 yko s/head/leader/
14:31 sri all glory to yko
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14:31 marcus hypnoyko?
14:31 yko \o/ yeah, all glory to poor friendly alligator
14:32 yko you wanna buy me a beer </jedymove> hehe
14:32 sri all beer to yko
14:32 marcus yko: I would if you were here in Riga.
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14:33 yko the fact i'm here and riga is there makes me cry with a bloody tears
14:33 yko i really suffer because of that, but not this year, really
14:34 yko from my side I'll be glad to see you at next PerlMova in Kiev
14:34 tempire \o/
14:34 tempire marcus: when is your mojo talk?
14:34 marcus yko: I'd be glad to see me in Kiev too.
14:35 marcus tempire: tomorrow at ~ 4
14:35 marcus 16
14:35 elb0w You are doing a mojo talk?
14:35 elb0w where
14:35 tempire yapc::eu
14:35 purl yapc::eu is probably see YAPC::Europe
14:35 marcus elb0w: YAPC::EU
14:35 purl YAPC::EU is see YAPC::Europe
14:35 elb0w oh
14:35 elb0w :(
14:35 elb0w Recorded?
14:35 purl Recorded is fine.
14:36 marcus elb0w: maybe
14:36 elb0w youtube it :D
14:36 tempire anything to get away from the misnomer that plugins are for advanced users is good
14:36 tempire I don't know about "mojo upload"
14:36 marty Tempire:  I saw your screencasts about Mojo.  Very well done.  Congratulations!
14:36 tempire marty: thanks
14:37 marty temprie++
14:37 tempire unless upload would be a general purpose thing with a --pause switch
14:37 sri tempire: mojo pause?
14:37 yko mojo-cpanup at the moment :p
14:37 tempire that sounds like a health condition
14:38 sri mojo cpanit
14:38 yko that works just the same as CPAN::Uploader, just a bit better and uses mojo, hehe
14:38 sri tempire: allright, your job will be finding a proper name then ;p
14:39 sri not sure a general purpose upload script would work so well
14:39 tempire agreed
14:39 tempire there's no "standard" way to upload files
14:40 tempire since no one uses webdav
14:40 sri mojo <whatever> --user tempire --pass ponycorns MyPlugin-0.1.tar.gz
14:40 sri that's what i'm aiming for
14:41 sri (yes, i know your password!)
14:42 tempire shenanigans!
14:42 purl Come on in to Shenanigans, Indiana's Premier "Couples Only" Club!
14:43 tempire there's also the question of how it's built
14:44 tempire I was originally thinking of making a dist::zilla plugin
14:44 sri oh
14:44 sri i want the normal cpan workflow
14:44 tempire but for the purpose of mojocasts, built in would be so much better
14:44 tempire would be another, "oh, that's neat" moment
14:45 tempire and all the n00bs would start thinking how cool they could be with their very own plugin
14:45 tempire I know I would
14:45 sri well, there can always be more advanced alternatives with poweruser features
14:46 tempire I like the idea of executing the command within the plugin directory, building the tar, and uploading it
14:46 sri hmm
14:46 tempire mojo "relevant command" --user xxx --pass xxx
14:46 sri that thought scares me a bit
14:46 tempire too easy?
14:46 purl it has been said that too easy is codeword for "restrict coral's creativity, it's hurting me"
14:47 sri no, env issues that are suddenly ours
14:47 sri we have to care about make
14:47 tempire what would be the issue?
14:47 tempire damnit
14:47 sri windows for example
14:48 sri there is no make
14:48 tempire every time I type dist::zilla, colloquy wants to replace it with diet::villa
14:48 sri it's gmake, cmake… or whatever
14:48 tempire hmm
14:48 tempire is there a module that handles that?
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14:49 sri you still use colloquy? :o
14:49 tempire it's the prettiest one
14:49 sri be a man and switch to textual
14:49 marcus sri: where is your textual theme? ;)
14:49 tempire textual is just a glorified terminal window
14:49 sri marcus: at the bottom of the todo list ;p
14:50 tempire unless you have a pretty theme
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14:50 marcus more like glorious terminal window
14:50 tempire oh snap
14:51 sri tempire: don't you think your students need to learn the "perl Makefile.PL; make; make test" workflow anyway?
14:51 tempire I'm not sure about that
14:51 tempire I mean, this is the revolucion
14:52 tempire you might be right.  I'm not 100% on that.
14:52 tempire the question is whether it's important for people to learn that before doing a cpan module.
14:52 tempire or if it's even wise to make it so easy.
14:52 sri well, if you give me something that works 100% portable on windows we can always add --build or so
14:53 tempire mojo plugin --upload makes sense, I think
14:53 tempire keeps it contained
14:53 sri then you break the mojo generate convention
14:53 tempire oh
14:53 tempire right
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14:53 sri mojo cpanify
14:54 tempire that's good
14:54 tempire cpanup was the best option before, but that beats it
14:54 sri well, you keep thinking i'll hack something together
14:54 judofyr how can I construct a Mojo::URL with multiple query parameters of the same name? e.g. foo=1&foo=2
14:54 stephan48 cpanit cpanup
14:55 stephan48 cpanify sounds more like "hey it does the work for me!"
14:55 sri it might in the future
14:55 tempire IN THE FUTURE
14:56 tempire I do like the idea of setting the stage to eliminate perl Makefile.PL, make, make test, etc one day
14:56 sri WHERE ARE MY FLYING CARS?
14:56 judofyr I need the future today :(
14:56 stephan48 cpanit falls under the same, so i would vote for cpanup
14:56 judofyr sri: I sort-of assumed that ->query({foo => 1, foo => 2}) would work
14:56 tempire mojo pnuemonicrainbow
14:57 judofyr because that's apparently the "append-way"
14:57 tempire er
14:57 tempire pnumaticrainbow
14:59 judofyr sri: wait, it actually works!
14:59 judofyr $foo->query({foo => [1, 2, 3]});
14:59 judofyr builds: ?foo=1&foo=2&foo=3
15:03 tempire sri: it wouldn't be so bad if mojo generate plugin printed out what the next steps are.
15:04 tempire e.g., to build:, to test, to upload
15:11 sri tempire: sure
15:13 perlrocks Twitter: "Got a #Perl #mojolicious #catalyst app to deploy to the #cloud? Beta test #Stackato and get to #cloud in < 15 min http://t.co/UaMH7wJ" --ActiveState http://twitter.com/ActiveSta​te/status/103122021067665409
15:14 tempire given that chrome will now have a c++ native client sdk
15:15 tempire I wonder what it would take to add scripting support
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15:55 elb0w probably better sponsor
15:55 elb0w whoops
16:22 sri http://smartos.org # neat
16:23 elb0w runs on zfs eh
17:06 tempire saw this coming: http://www.unqlspec.org/display/UnQL/Home
17:09 zakame_ the men from UnQL
17:09 zakame_ wasn't that a TV show?
17:20 tempire "I also hope to make available "UnQLite" - a small embeddable document-oriented database in the same spirit as SQLite, but with a new file format."
17:20 tempire That right there is the future
17:20 tempire property lists will save us all
17:20 tempire oh.
17:25 mspo sleepycat has always been the future
17:41 sri hmm
17:42 sri now i'm a little unsure again if those commands should really be in core
17:51 tempire I suspect it's a matter of whether there's a clean separation point.
17:51 tempire I wouldn't have any problem with them being in a separate module
17:52 tempire but the closer they are, the less barriers there are, and the more likely you are to get bunches of new plugins
17:52 sri it's tricky
18:01 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-MyPlugin 0.01 by KRAIH - http://t.co/rmoZvWC" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_new​/status/103164484943740928
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18:03 GitHub130 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/r0BzVV
18:03 GitHub130 [mojo/master] added experimental modules Mojolicious::Command::Cpanify and Mojolicious::Command::Generate::Plugin - Sebastian Riedel
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18:03 sri tempire: they are not polished yet
18:04 sri and i'm not sure how to explain the process in the documentation
18:04 sri help would be appreciated
18:10 tempire it's called snake-case?
18:10 sri ye
18:10 tempire did you just make that up ;)
18:10 sri nope :D
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18:15 GitHub47 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/ojfp57
18:15 GitHub47 [mojo/master] updated changes - Sebastian Riedel
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18:16 LeK hello there
18:16 * sri waves
18:16 LeK I come with what must be a stupid question, but I can't find a smart answer to it.... maybe I can find some help here...
18:18 sri tempire: another portability problem would be COPYFILE_DISABLE on os x btw
18:18 sri it's a huge can of worms
18:19 LeK I try to follow the tutorial for mojo::lite, but I cannot find how to tell mojo to use a given unix socket to my fastcgi enabled webserver... what did I miss?
18:19 sri mojolicious itself doesn't support that
18:19 sri you would go through PSGI/Plack
18:21 LeK that's a smart answer... I think I'll keep with embedded server for now and look at plack after (I'm a real beginner with perl web dev)
18:21 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojoli​cious/Guides/Cookbook#PSGI2FPlack
18:21 sri that's a smart choice
18:21 LeK maybe I'll look at it right now so
18:21 sri the built in server is way better for development
18:22 LeK yup... as you are very helpful, I have one more question... is mojolicious a good choice for generating ajax services (only generating json or basic html chunks)
18:23 LeK or is it a bad idea
18:23 sri very good choice i'd say
18:23 LeK ok, thank you very much for this advices... i'll go on this way.
18:27 tempire COPYFILE_DISABLE, as in the .DS_Store-like files?
18:29 tempire maybe it would be best to leave generate plugin for now, and have it print out directions of where to go next.
18:29 sri ye
18:29 sri and i would like a section about it in a guide
18:30 sri writing helper plugins seems like a good candidate
18:30 sri i've just moved the section about adding helpers out of the advanced block
18:31 tempire it's a shame, though.  if Cpan.pm is part of the core, pause uploading should be too.
18:31 sri agreed
18:33 marcus sri: you must come to the next yapc :p
18:34 sri and cash in on all the beer people promised me over the years!
18:34 marcus you will not be sober for the event :)
18:34 * tempire invites himself to the mojo party
18:36 tempire is yapc::eu bigger/smaller/same size as yapc::na?
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19:00 marcus tempire: 360
19:00 marcus this year
19:00 purl this year is the year i will finally learn haskell
19:09 perlrocks Twitter: "Gonna make releasing #mojolicious plugins to #cpan a lot easier, maybe even beginner friendly. http://t.co/P165R53 #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/103181580092190721
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19:37 sri https://github.com/blog/905-edit-like-an-ace # wow
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20:39 Ravenhall Hey folks - I'm looking for a way to integrate quick queries to my company's LDAP directory into my Mojolicious apps and make them easily available in templates. Any suggestions on how you might attack this would be greatly appreciated.
20:42 Ravenhall I also will be looking at using LDAP for authentication and authorization, but I think that I might need to write that as a plugin.
20:50 Ravenhall *crickets*
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20:55 GitHub102 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/nDzlw4
20:55 GitHub102 [mojo/master] added helper plugin recipe - Sebastian Riedel
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20:56 sri tempire: that should be a good start
20:56 sri Ravenhall: don't think there anything mojolicious specific about that
20:56 Ravenhall MojoX::Auth::Simple looks cool
20:57 tempire looks good
20:57 Ravenhall There's a lot of cool stuff in MojoX actually
20:57 tempire is Guides::Rendering the right place for it?
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20:58 tempire I guess it's just appended to helpers, so it makes sense in context
20:58 sri tempire: helpers are closest to rendering i think
20:58 sri yea, it's all about the context
20:58 sri at first i wanted to put it into the cookbook
20:59 sri but it seemed a bit lost there
21:01 tempire not sure anyone would look for it in rendering, though
21:01 sri where would you look for it?
21:01 sri i can't really think of a better place
21:02 sri and it's not like people should make plugins before getting that far in the guides :)
21:02 tempire among all the options listed in M::Guides, the cookbook
21:02 tempire maybe a section for it in the cookbook, with a link to the other location?
21:02 tempire Or maybe it's own guide
21:02 sri i don't want many small guides
21:03 tempire at least a reference to it in the cookbook, then.
21:03 sri i'm open for sensible sugegstions
21:03 tempire under deployment
21:04 sri that makes no sense at all
21:04 sri there are a few packaging recipes at the end
21:05 sri better think of a new section or so
21:05 sri i would be ok with moving the cpan part of the rendering section into the cookbook
21:05 sri *but* you would have to write a new introduction so it makes sense
21:06 sri the plugin part itself has to stay
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21:08 sri *crickets*
21:09 Ravenhall sri: Ah, I think I see what you mean. Whatever I'm using to query LDAP can be plugged into the .ep - right?
21:11 Ravenhall sri: So - bind to LDAP, set up say Net::LDAP's callback method as subs for whatever attributes I want, and call them as needed in the template.
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21:49 GitHub76 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/oQpIgB
21:49 GitHub76 [mojo/master] fixed small empty cookie bug - Sebastian Riedel
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21:49 LeK mojo is fun... thanks for the help and good bye/night
21:50 LeK left #mojo
21:52 perlrocks Twitter: "Here's a fun new recipe that shows how easy it is to release #mojolicious plugins to #cpan. :) http://t.co/iY6Tn2O #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/103222560841404416
22:02 alnewkirk another hit and run
22:44 tempire hmm
22:44 tempire It may be better to wait until the mojocast about testing to talk about releasing plugins to cpan
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