Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-08-28

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Time Nick Message
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03:15 perlrocks Twitter: "@mojo_licious__ Be careful! The world would be less sparkly without its Mojolicious ;)" --PrettyAnonymiss http://twitter.com/PrettyAnony​miss/status/107652587842584576
03:36 irs ghenry: i hope it's not too steep, but there is some rethinking required, especially if you've commonly used forwarding in catalyst
03:37 irs ghenry: for REST make sure to check out the content negotiation sections in the guide/tutorial, it's really fun (even for REST purists)
03:37 irs and please leave feedback, those parts are experimental ;)
03:55 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious hack of the day: HTML5 EventSource #perl http://t.co/yB2VhEQ" --perl_m8y http://twitter.com/perl_m8y​/status/107662473800327168
03:56 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious hack of the day: HTML5 EventSource #perl http://t.co/3jbMKeh: Mojolicious hack of the day: HTML5 Eve... http://t.co/S8943TQ" --html5guy http://twitter.com/html5guy​/status/107662689387552768
04:13 tempire I hate javascript
04:13 tempire there's no sugar
04:13 tempire just like objective-c
04:13 irs the sugar is called coffeescript ;p
04:13 tempire what's the point if it's not fun?
04:14 tempire languages without list support have completely missed the past 50 years of accumulated knowledge
04:14 tempire "objects are the future!"
04:14 * tempire shoots himself in the head
04:14 tempire at least it has map
04:16 * irs sweeps tempires corpse under the carpet
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04:45 tempire hypnotoad is amazing
04:46 tempire especially the "hypnotoad myapp" reloading
04:56 irs yea, too bad so few people actually understand what it does
04:57 * irs puts it one the good blog article topics list
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05:32 irs WELCOME. YOU WILL EXPERIENCE A TINGLING SENSATION AND THEN DEATH.
05:42 tempire oh
05:42 tempire I didn't realize coffeescript wasn't a runtime thing
05:43 tempire neat
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07:11 perlrocks Twitter: "During the night I fixed some bug in my mojolicious webapp. It was fun. I wish I had more time for this instead all the nonsense..." --ttyS1 http://twitter.com/ttyS1/status/107711796722405377
07:14 perlrocks Twitter: "Thx guys for your support on the irc channels #mojolicious" --ttyS1 http://twitter.com/ttyS1/status/107712681229819905
07:14 ghenry Thanks irs. Will look.
07:16 cstamas btw. who operates perlrocks bot? I would like to make something similar
07:16 cstamas is its code available somewhere?
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07:26 GitHub150 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/_xe4zw
07:26 GitHub150 [mojo/master] added a few more Mojo::Home tests - Sebastian Riedel
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07:26 irs cstamas: https://github.com/kraih/mojoli​cio.us/blob/master/perlrocks.pl
07:28 cstamas thx
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08:21 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 1.92: The Web In A Box! http://t.co/9YasDKD" --lordnaastik http://twitter.com/lordnaast​ik/status/107729430008442880
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09:03 Sjors where is the code that reads the % and <% Perl template code?
09:03 Sjors specifically, if I write "%= 1" in a template, where is the code that picks this up and generates the output?
09:05 Sjors there, Mojo::Template :)
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09:29 GitHub164 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/YpXyyA
09:29 GitHub164 [mojo/master] updated Mojo::Template documentation a bit - Sebastian Riedel
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09:35 marcus wow, vico seems fucking cool! http://itunes.apple.com/NO/app/id​433847096?mt=12&amp;affId=1982275
09:35 marcus I might buy this
09:35 marcus native mac vim
09:36 marcus a bit expensive but it's very well done! (Using the trial atm)
09:37 irs i can't stand the icon
09:37 marcus it's not great
09:37 marcus but it's vim keybindings, full aqua support, and textmate bundles!
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09:58 irs hmm, the navigation with symbols looks cool
10:01 marcus irs: you can download a 15 day trial from the author homepage
10:01 marcus irs: http://www.vicoapp.com/download.html
10:02 irs still trying to get over the icon -.-
10:04 irs also no find in project
10:06 marcus yeah, that is a bummer
10:06 marcus needs ack integration
10:07 marcus but it's a good start
10:07 marcus it also needs a simple way to specify which scope it should use, afaict
10:09 marcus irs: macvim doesn't have find in project either, does it? :)
10:10 irs ack plugins though
10:10 irs no doubt vico is better than macvim already, but i'm comparing it to textmate
10:11 marcus true
10:11 marcus trying to find out how to trigger the bundle commands
10:12 marcus seems it can't yet
10:12 marcus at least ac in project did nothing
10:12 marcus ack
10:13 marcus the html insert in text one worked tho
10:13 marcus probably doesn't support the dialog stuff required for ack in project yet
10:13 irs does the mojolicious highlighting work?
10:14 marcus of .html.ep ?
10:15 irs ye
10:15 marcus had to select it manually
10:16 marcus http://nordaaker.com/docs/skitch/d​efault.html.ep-20110828-121611.jpg
10:16 irs no background for the ep tags?
10:18 marcus actually it picked mojolicious (embedded) by itself the second time I tried it (on welcome)
10:18 marcus not sure what you mean by background for the ep tags
10:19 irs http://twitpic.com/3famlf/full
10:20 marcus irs: Does not look like that for me even in textmate
10:20 irs that's your theme then
10:21 marcus it's blackboard
10:21 marcus one of the default ones
10:21 marcus which one are you using?
10:21 irs twilight
10:21 purl i heard twilight was significantly longer. or significantly more OH apeiron's GOD MAKE IT STOP
10:22 marcus irs: yeah, it supports the background in twilight
10:22 irs neat
10:22 marcus http://nordaaker.com/docs/skitch/w​elcome.html.ep-20110828-122227.jpg
10:22 marcus note that I turned on current line highlight, which is why the last line is highlighted as well
10:25 irs wow, the feeling is amazing
10:29 marcus now I just need to learn nu to script this thing =)
10:29 marcus looks *a lot* like lisp
10:29 marcus so it's actually a textmate/vim/emacs blend ;)
10:31 marcus http://nordaaker.com/docs/ski​tch/Vico-20110828-123045.jpg guess an ack integration should be doable
10:34 marcus this is so fucking cool - http://blog.vicoapp.com/2011/08/Scripting-Vico
10:40 irs shit, after playing for 5 mins i don't mind the icon anymore :S
10:40 irs it's that good
10:43 marcus they should just stick a goatse in the middle of the icon ;)
10:45 irs hmm, no bundle editor sucks a bit too
10:46 irs how am i supposed to maintain bundles?
10:49 marcus irs: in textmate I guess :-/
10:49 marcus or just open it as a project? :D
10:50 marcus editing plist files by hand == no fun
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10:50 marcus irs: os x is a drm'ed os now? Not just closed source? :o
10:50 marcus fanatics will be fanatics, I guess.
10:51 marcus Had a lot of fun with Getty telling me how evil apple is while still running Windows on his laptop at YAPC::EU :D
10:51 irs lol
10:52 marcus he was like 'No, no, Microsoft is really trying to change for the better' <- stockholm syndrome
10:55 cstamas oh
10:57 irs xD
10:57 marcus http://help.vicoapp.com/ideas/mul​tiple-file-search-project-search
11:03 marcus irs: for now you could probably just give it the textmate icon ;)
11:09 irs http://help.vicoapp.com/ideas/bundle-editing-mode
11:09 cstamas similar to this example https://github.com/kraih/mojoli​cio.us/blob/master/perlrocks.pl can I read (tail -f) a file
11:10 cstamas ?
11:11 irs marcus: upvote!
11:11 marcus irs: done
11:16 cstamas how can I accomplish event based file read (like mojo::useragent does for http) ?
11:24 marcus irs: Was a bit surprised to see vti do dancer development, by the way :)
11:25 marcus his cv generator thing is neat tho
11:25 irs havn't looked and don't care tbh
11:26 irs cstamas: you can't read files non-blocking
11:28 * marcus looks at ending ))))), is reminded about why he quit lisp in the first place
11:30 irs well, i've deleted vico again
11:31 irs learned my lesson, not gonna pay for something until it is really ready
11:32 cstamas irs: not even with https://metacpan.org/module/AE or something like that?
11:33 irs files are always readable and writable
11:33 Sjors hmm, I lost it
11:33 Sjors what's the recommended way to configure the Mojolicious app again?
11:33 Sjors i.e. I have mojo.pl which starts Mojolicious using TestApp as the "main class", how do I hand configure options to TestApp?
11:34 irs cstamas: anyway, if you want to implement tail -f you would use a recurring timer and seek
11:34 Sjors the only way to do it as far as I could see, was %ENV, but there must be a better way
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11:42 marcus irs: am able to pop up hello world on ctrl-F now ;)
11:43 irs marcus: didn't you want to write a psgi loader plugin?
11:43 marcus irs: ATM having more fun with nu
11:43 marcus but I do yeah
11:43 irs -.-
11:43 marcus (learning new languages)++
11:44 marcus I could probably embed this stuff into iphone projects as well, to script them
11:44 marcus apple is less strict about that now than before
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13:04 marcus irs: How to turn off automatic rendering without render_later?
13:04 marcus (I'm setting $self->tx->res directly, and seems that makes mojo want to render stuff afterwards).
13:12 marcus hmm, I don't actually understand why I can't use render_later,
13:15 marcus irs: https://github.com/marcusramber​g/Mojolicious-Plugin-MountPSGI the test shows it gets the response content correctly, but the status code is 404. If I add render_later or set mojo.rendered' it hangs for a long time then the content is blank.
13:16 marcus (Just stole bits from Mount plugin and Middleware plugin to implement this btw)
13:19 irs marcus: any reason you don't just use ->rendered?
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13:31 marcus irs: Just ignorance, I guess. Couldn't find it in the rendering guide. All tests pass now :)
13:33 marcus irs: it's actually not in the rendering guide, is it?
13:49 irs marcus: neat
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14:50 marcus perlrocks: how come you didn't catch http://twitter.com/#!/marcusram​berg/status/107826999883612160 ?
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14:55 * irs kicks perlrocks
14:55 irs maybe the "."
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16:37 Sjors irs: I have an object, $model, and I want my Mojolicious application to use it as the instantiation of some model somewhere
16:38 Sjors (this is in a test, and the $model is an implementation of the model with hardcoded contents so I know for sure what I'll get back)
16:38 Sjors in Test::Mojo scripts, how do I give something to the Mojolicious instance, so it can use it in later requests?
16:39 Sjors (the problem being that I don't have the actual instance, just the name of the application to Test::Mojo)
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17:04 marcus yay, Catalyst fanboys to the rescue!
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17:09 crab Sjors: create the app and do whatever and pass it your Test::Mojo
17:10 crab cstamas: http://toroid.org/ams/etc/​mojolicious-http-streaming (re: your question about tail -f)
17:12 Sjors thanks
17:51 marcus irs: I think it's safe to assume perlrocks is broken, I've been discussing mojolicious on twitter all night :p
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18:15 tempire lulz
18:15 tempire http://twitter.com/#!/marcusram​berg/status/107861920157151233
18:15 tempire going to steal that one
18:18 cstamas crab: I take a look
18:23 cstamas crab: thx looks nice
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19:04 tempire irs: does ruby have a mop?
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19:58 marcus tempire: enjoy :)
20:02 tempire marcus: I'm tempted to give a catalyst presentation at yapc about catalyst called "the empire strikes back"
20:03 tempire someone needs to
20:03 marcus tempire: would be better if Rafl did it.
20:04 tempire make it happen!
20:04 marcus tempire: trying now on #plack
20:06 tempire there's a #plack on irc.perl.org?
20:06 tempire I don't see it
20:06 tempire nevermind
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20:35 ghenry irs: That's cool: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo​licious/Lite#Content_Negotiation
20:38 ghenry btw, I see a lot of the big guys dropping RESTful for more customy things.
20:38 ghenry Still the way to go for a web service/API?
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20:38 tempire ghenry: the web always wins
20:39 Akron Hm .... why are my route->pattern->symbols empty? https://gist.github.com/1177188
20:39 ghenry tempire: don't get you?
20:39 tempire rest is how the web works.
20:40 ghenry agree
20:40 tempire it always wins int he end
20:40 Akron REST is great. Needs less documentation. Good for lazy people.
20:42 ghenry I like that
20:56 marcus ghenry: if custom things => soap and similar, would not touch it with a ten foot pole
20:59 ghenry I was reading about Amazon and eBay
20:59 ghenry http://developer.ebay.com/developercenter/rest/
20:59 ghenry "Please use the Shopping Web Services HTTP Get protocol."
21:00 ghenry still REST I'd say
21:00 tempire it's not rest, but it's about as restful as the big guys tend to get
21:00 marcus ghenry: well, just http with json is fine for a lot of things
21:00 ghenry yeah
21:01 ghenry btw, was following your Vica conversation
21:01 marcus Vico?
21:01 ghenry Yeah. I'm doing most dev on a MacBook and Linux
21:01 ghenry Always seem to stick with Vim.
21:01 ghenry Have been playing with TextMate, Padre and Vico
21:01 marcus I hate how macvim feels like an alien on the macbook tho
21:02 ghenry And that
21:02 tempire marcus: how so?
21:02 ghenry just macports and vim
21:02 ghenry It looks native to me marc
21:02 ghenry It looks native to me marcus
21:02 marcus note that I said feels, not looks =)
21:02 ghenry ah
21:02 marcus it feels like one of those wx cross-platform apps
21:03 marcus barely customized to run as a native citizen of the platform
21:03 ghenry OK, so REST is fine. Need to design our API for SureVoIP - http://www.surevoip.co.uk
21:03 ghenry yeah.
21:03 tempire yes, if you're designing an API, go as rest as possible.
21:03 ghenry Any API consultants for hire?
21:03 tempire and don't be one of the goobers who makes an rpc api and calls it rest
21:04 * tempire hates that
21:04 ghenry I started one for the number search tool on our front page
21:04 ghenry I want proper
21:04 ghenry Got my RESTful O'Reilly book :-)
21:04 tempire good.  read through that and you'll have everything you need.
21:05 tempire one of the better oreilly books
21:05 ghenry marcus: does iusethis have one for AppRefresh (forgot name)
21:05 marcus ghenry: api?
21:05 purl api is abstra ct or very unpolished
21:05 ghenry tempire: lots of freate reviews
21:05 tempire except his coverage of transactions is a bit weak
21:05 ghenry marcus: yeah
21:05 marcus ghenry: http://osx.iusethis.com/api
21:05 ghenry ooo
21:05 ghenry Is your app code in github? Some used to be, may be thinking of MojoWiki
21:06 marcus mojomojo is on github, iusethis is closed source for now
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21:06 tempire ghenry: if you deal with transactions, or long running processes, watch this: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/BPM-with-REST
21:07 tempire or read my summary on http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2383912/m​essage-queue-vs-web-services/5363360#5363360
21:07 marcus message-queue-vs-the-world
21:07 marcus scnr.. Going to be now
21:07 marcus to bed even
21:07 ghenry ta.
21:07 ghenry http://stackoverflow.com/questi​ons/630453/put-vs-post-in-rest
21:07 ghenry See you use POST marcus
21:07 ghenry that seems the norm
21:08 ghenry for first two calls
21:08 tempire ghenry: don't cheat.  learn the difference.  it makes a difference down the road.
21:08 ghenry ok, will read my book before commenting :-)
21:08 tempire you're only allowed to cheat if it's an already created api :)
21:08 ghenry ha
21:09 marcus ghenry: post because it's all actions. get for data feels like rss/json/appcasts
21:09 marcus http://osx.iusethis.com/json/firefox
21:09 marcus data feeds even
21:10 DaTa don't feed me
21:10 tempire marcus: you're cheating on /api/comments/<shortname
21:10 arpadszasz joined #mojo
21:10 tempire bad marcus!
21:11 * tempire serenades marcus to sleep
21:11 baton8 joined #mojo
21:12 tempire or maybe not.  depends on whether it's a new comment or a new app.  the doc string seems inconsistent with the url
21:16 ghenry Night all
21:16 ghenry Left mt RESt book at the office and I'm going on holiday for a week!
21:16 ghenry Will take my Modern Perl book instead
21:16 ghenry half way through that. Good read.
21:52 Akron irs: There seems to be no test for ->symbols. I don't know what the expected behaviour is. I expect it to return symbol names, however this does not work: https://gist.github.com/1177188 .
22:13 tempire Akron: not sure what you're trying to do…but you have to match the route against a url in order to get symbols
22:13 tempire http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Moj​olicious/Routes/Match#SYNOPSIS
22:14 Akron tempire: I want to know all names of placeholders of the given roo
22:14 Akron route.
22:15 tempire for what reason?
22:17 Akron tempire: To create template URIs. E.g. http://mojolicio.us/webfinger/:user -> http://mojolicio.us/webfinger/{user}
22:18 tempire that sounds like url_for
22:19 Akron tempire: url_for only interpolates placeholders - there is no information, which placeholders are part of the route as far as I know.
22:20 Akron ->pattern->symbols and then a loop to reach the root via ->parent should bbe the correct way. If I remember correctly, this is even something sri suggested. But it seems not to work.
22:21 tempire well, symbols is only populated when it has something to match against
22:22 tempire so you'd have to Mojolicious::Routes::Match->new(GET => '/myuser')->match($r);
22:23 Akron I thought pattern is compiled in advanced, before interpolation takes place.
22:24 Akron ::Match is only part of the dispatch process, while ::Pattern is for the precompilation. Isn't this correct?
22:25 tempire I'm not all that clear on the entire process; I just looked at the code where ->symbol is populated, and traced it back to shape_match, which is called by ::Routes::Match->match
22:28 Akron tempire: Oh - right. It's not part of the tokenization process. I see, Thanks! So I have to go a different way.
22:38 Akron tempire: Found sris answer again - you were right. I first have to dispatch. http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​mojo/2011-06-08#i_3882974
22:41 Akron I created a different solution that time, but it did not work well.
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