Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-08-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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06:26 sri i hate it when people skip the documentation :S
06:29 perlrocks Twitter: "@rbucker And please read this FAQ entry before comparing frameworks. http://t.co/uVeqVGf" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/108426047573331968
06:34 perlrocks Twitter: "@rbucker All your questions are answered right in the tutorial, always a little disheartening when people skip it. :( http://t.co/3TQa6bc" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/108427350118645760
06:35 sri i have a very bad feeling about this http://iam.richardbucker.com/2011​/08/30/perl-micro-web-frameworks/
06:35 sri he wants to blog about perl concurrncy and performance, but doesn't bother reading the tutorial
06:45 sri :S
06:45 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/208
06:45 sri WHY?
06:45 sri i could use some help dealing with this
06:46 sri in his first blog post he even mentioned mojocasts, quite sure morbo is the first thing tempire explains...
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07:12 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojocast #1: Fun with clouds! - Create your first Mojolicious web app http://t.co/BggmxNT" --robertjacobsen http://twitter.com/robertjacob​sen/status/108436971789107200
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07:17 tempire interesting
07:20 tempire he's just skimming docs, is all
07:20 tempire locking onto the things he's interested in, and letting the other stuff slip by
07:20 tempire I tend to do the same thing.  Not so public about it, though.
07:31 tempire friendly comment posted
07:32 * tempire chews his alfalfa weed in a sherrif-like fashion
07:33 sri Oo
07:34 sri cosimo: i don't know how easy it is to extend TT, but maybe you can improve the TT renderer to make helpers look nicer
07:36 tempire new fringe episode in 3 days
07:36 sri \o/
07:36 tempire finally
07:39 marcus sri: cpanmin.us dns hosting sorted now
07:39 marcus thanks to miyagawa++
07:39 tempire what was the problem?
07:39 perlrocks Twitter: "#mojolicious is not a micro web framework. http://t.co/uVeqVGf #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/108443741274128384
07:39 marcus tempire: apparently my dns hosting provider sucks
07:39 marcus or at least their us dns servers
07:40 marcus it's a bit weird, I've only had trouble with the .us domain
07:40 marcus but they use different nses for that domain and the others
07:41 tempire sri: I included that in my comment as well
07:41 * sri moved all his random domains to http://gandi.net
07:41 tempire moderated comments, though
07:41 tempire http://pastie.org/2453177
07:42 sri no bullshit, no downtime so far
07:43 crab "I’m not sure where to begin and I’m not certain where this is going to end. I have an outline and some ideas but nothing is concrete. I’m not even sure what my conclusion is or how I’m going to get there."
07:43 sri tempire: good comment
07:43 crab what comment?
07:43 purl comment is pretty exhaustive, read it carefully
07:43 sri pastie
07:44 marcus sri: dyn.com provided us with free lifetime hosting
07:44 marcus think they should be reliable enough
07:44 tempire miyagawa had the hookup?
07:45 marcus yeah
07:45 marcus I just changed the delegation
07:46 * tempire wants a hookup for hosting mojocasts videos
07:50 tempire I'm tired of dbic
07:52 * marcus wonders what happened to that new sql thing mst was talking about at YAPC
07:52 marcus LINQ seems pretty cool actually
07:53 tempire what was the new sql thing?
07:54 tempire ah, data::query?
07:54 marcus yeah
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07:55 tempire that's gotta be the most boring name I've heard in a while.
07:56 perlrocks Twitter: "Anyone got connections to a provider that might be willing to sponsor #mojocasts hosting, so we can have #html5 video? #mojolicious #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/108447886995501056
07:56 tempire \o/
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07:56 tempire guess I have to wait until the talks get posted on presentingperl.org to find out
07:58 tempire interesting, link looks very much like lisp's clsql
07:58 tempire *linq
07:59 marcus yeah, I missed the talk too.
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08:04 sri marcus: yes, a macro framework -.-
08:06 * marcus puts on depeche mode - macrovision for sri.
08:06 sri \o/
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08:27 cosimo sri: yes, got no bandwidth now though :|
08:28 marcus opera has no bandwidth? :o
08:34 sri :o
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08:35 sri tempire: anything specific you need?
08:40 sri i need numbers!
08:41 marcus ONE MILLION DOLLARS </pinky in mouth>
08:44 sugar two thousand dollas. two thousand dollars? yes, two thousand dollars. (c) sergio
08:46 cstamas sri: what do you need for mojocasts from a technical point of view?
08:46 sri we are waiting for tempire to tell us
08:46 cstamas ok
08:47 xxtjaxx Oh a new cast coming up soon? yes?
08:49 marcus if we're gonna be TECHNCIAL about it, we need two hookers and a big bag of blow!
08:52 stephan48 tempire: do you want to tell us what you need for mojocasts?
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08:53 tempire well my goodness
08:53 tempire sri has alerted the mojoverse
08:54 tempire for each mojocast, there will be 3 encoded files, mp4, ogg, & webm
08:54 tempire let's say they're about 20m each
08:55 stephan48 k
08:55 stephan48 so mostly storage and bandwith?
08:55 xxtjaxx Well ofcourse /everybody/ here has their irssi setup to highlight alarm and launch a missile everytime somebody says mojocast ;)
08:55 tempire stephan48: yes
08:56 xxtjaxx tempire: is uploading them to vimeo/youtube an option?
08:56 stephan48 xxtjaxx: ow. i switched that off some weeks ago... to much damage...
08:56 tempire it's currently using vimeo.  html5 video is the next thing, 'cause it will let me do cooler things
08:56 xxtjaxx stephan48: yeah those splattered puppies always leave those nasty intestine stains all over the place :/
08:57 tempire stephan48: I suppose so.  Unless someone wants to finance a copy of motion 5 & final cut pro x to make the casts all the much cooler.
08:57 stephan48 tempire: mhhhhhh ok, bandwith and storage will be no problem i think
08:57 tempire and maybe some blow for marcus.
08:58 stephan48 i got some mirrorbrain setup which could handle mirroring etc :)
08:58 stephan48 1-2tb and a five gigs of storage i have at hand
08:59 stephan48 1-2tb bandwith
08:59 xxtjaxx stephan48: tempire why not use youtube? It'd reach a lot more people?
08:59 stephan48 he wants html5
08:59 tempire and youtube is ugly.
08:59 stephan48 ye
08:59 tempire vimeo will be a backup.
09:00 tempire 2tb bandwidth?  or traffic capacity?
09:00 stephan48 tree tier :)
09:01 tempire bed.
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09:02 stephan48 traffic usage*
09:02 stephan48 bed?
09:02 purl i guess bed is for mounting of a 4-pipe KPV automatic cannon to shred my opponents
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09:04 marcus tempire has made his bed, and now he has to lie in it
09:04 stephan48 oh different timezone.
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09:13 sri ok, so we want storage, bandwith and some blow for marcus
09:13 * sri heads to the twitterverse
09:16 marcus the blow is useless unless we also procure the hookers!
09:16 marcus and blackjack!
09:16 purl blackjack is BLACKJACK AND HOOKERS!
09:16 * marcus pats purl
09:16 purl how condescending
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10:06 perlrocks Twitter: "A #mojocast requires 20-60MB storage and gets viewed around 1500 times (atm), to give you an idea of what's needed. #perl #mojolicious" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/108480588620644352
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10:13 trone sorry guys, but it's ok if: perl -MMojo::Template -e 'my $mt = Mojo::Template->new; my $output = $mt->render("%# <%= 5*5 %>"); print $output;' prints 25 =%> ? %# don't comment the full line
10:15 Sjors sri: I just noticed: if my tests eventually cause my code to render a template that doesn't exist, the templates time out after a few seconds saying the request failed
10:15 sri trone: interesting side effect
10:16 sri trone: it's because it gets treated as <%# line %>
10:16 Sjors is it legal to (explicitly) render a template that doesn't exist?
10:17 trone I'm looking inside in Mojo::Template if I understand code and imagine a easy solution.
10:17 sri don't think there is an easy solution
10:17 Sjors if not, it would be nice if Test::Mojo hooked in somewhere and found out this happened, and immediately failed the test with something like "Tried to render account/schedule, but no template exists for it"
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10:19 Akron sri: 2 ideas for (maybe) better guidelines: a) Morbo should be mentioned in the Cookbook and in the Guides overview (well - it's there, but maybe it should be there instead of Mojo::Server::Daemon); b) on the mojolicio.us-frontpage there could be something of a glimpse of a non-lite app.
10:21 sri Akron: a) what's the point? morbo is not a depliyment target. b) we've just removed that
10:21 sri s/i/o/
10:21 judofyr sri: is morbo mentioned at all in the docs
10:21 sri if that's about the blog post earlier, the guy was just ignorant
10:22 sri judofyr: all over the place
10:22 sri heck, morbo is on our fricking frontpage!
10:23 Akron sri: Yes, I was adressing that. However, here are a lot of users saying "... daemon --reload" does not work properly etc. Maybe it's really underdocumented.
10:23 sri of course it's undocumented in ancient versions that did not have morbo
10:24 Akron sri: And regarding the frontpage issue - I don't like this "that's our hello world thing". It's just like every language or framework tries hard to be simple on that. I want to see beauty.
10:24 sri what issue?
10:24 purl i guess issue is that Carp::croak strips it
10:24 * sri needs a break
10:25 sri you're making fuzz about absolutely nothing
10:26 Akron sri: No non-lite presentation on the front page. Don't want to make fuzz. Just suggestions I think would improve first impressions on Mojolicious.
10:27 sri if you have specific improvements, shoot
10:28 sri but i'm very much against wasting time arguing about possible micro improvments instead of working on important stuff like the mongodb driver
10:28 Akron Sorry - go for mongodb! ;)
10:29 sri ;p
10:32 sri btw. just checked, the bounce rate has gone down since we removed the non-lite example from the frontpage
10:37 sri Akron: like i said, feel free to show us what you have in mind
10:37 Akron sri: Sounds fair.
10:39 sri of course, we could do it like rails and django
10:39 sri and just don't have examples on the frontpage
10:39 sri actually i'm more in favor of that if there's a problem with the current frontpage
10:41 perlrocks Twitter: "@kraih mojolicious vs catalyst?" --ferranepifanio http://twitter.com/ferranepifa​nio/status/108489567539171328
10:44 Akron sri: I like code. It illustrates the style and feeling of a language / framework. I simply don't like "Hello World"s as they show nothing a language/framework can do to you to make your life easier. I want to say: "Ah - nice and clean approach!". HW is to simple for that as it illustrates no real problem. But you are right - unless I have no concrete idea for improvement I should shut up. ;)
10:45 sri Akron: i take that as a argument for removing all code from the frontpage ;p
10:45 Akron sri: Nooooooooo!
10:45 Akron sri: Really. Code is good.
10:47 Akron sri: Hm ... but maybe the RoR approach is nice - you are directed to the right place to get a feeling on the language. The django page is ... disturbing.
10:47 sri well, we direct them directly to the documentation overview, which leads to many examples
10:48 sri maybe that's a preferable first impression
10:48 Akron I like the image of code. It's what I would search for. "Get excited" is pretty much what I want, if I am interested in a new framework/language.
10:50 judofyr damn, I'm starting to write "my foo" in JavaScript :S
10:56 perlrocks Twitter: "/ Mojolicious reference to manage the log generation Mojolicious - http://t.co/AFrgXt7 Introduction to Perl with sample code" (ja) --wPerlnews http://twitter.com/wPerlnew​s/status/108493179887685632
11:06 sri oh, xchat is now on the app store
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11:18 sri and it's ugly :/
11:18 judofyr LimeChat FTW!
11:18 sri or textual
11:19 judofyr or textual
11:20 marcus yuppyupp
11:21 sri twitter seems to have hiccups again
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11:53 perlrocks Twitter: "Interesting question, should we remove the code example from the #mojolicious website, since it might give the wrong first impression? #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/108507651041787904
11:56 Sjors sri: I'd make it a little bit more verbose
11:56 Sjors sri: it's awesome that this is possible, but nobody actually does it that way
11:56 Sjors maybe include a second one which displays just a bit more features, and then point people at the rest of the docs
11:56 sri Sjors: please elaborate and show an example
11:56 Sjors my 0.02$
11:57 sri the options right now are hello world or no example, nobody has shown a third one yet
11:57 Sjors sri: well, I'd include another example which shows more features; for example, a session change and a little __DATA__ template
11:58 sri Sjors: no, i mean show us an actual example
11:58 Sjors I'd keep it to ::Lite though, since full Mojolicious apps are too verbose to give a short example for
11:58 Sjors OK, sure, sec
12:02 Sjors sri: http://pastebin.com/bRudycmW
12:03 sri ewww
12:03 Sjors sri: I didn't use respond_to on purpose, and there might be many ways to simplify this or make it more explanatory
12:03 Sjors but it showcases a bunch of features that are pretty nice
12:03 Sjors (I didn't run the script, maybe it caontains some errors)
12:05 Sjors sri: I think having both a "very simple" and a "here are some of our features, but there's more inside" example will allow people visiting the site to have a bit more faith in the possibilities
12:06 sri i actually don't think that's the case
12:06 sri big examples right from the start overwhelm people from my experience
12:07 sri and make them not dig deeper
12:08 Sjors yep, that's also possible
12:08 Sjors this doesn't seem very overwhelming to me, though, but I can't speak for people visiting the site for the first time
12:10 sri ok, i'm convinced, we are not changing anything ;p
12:11 sri now back to more important things ;)
12:12 Sjors sri: did you read my question a while back about templates not being found during Test::Mojo testing?
12:12 sri yes, no clue
12:13 Sjors sri: (the question was whether you think it needs fixing that using nonexisting templates during testing does not lead to any error, but just times out the request)
12:13 Sjors hm
12:13 stephan48 delayed render or so is the feature called which is responsible for this...
12:13 Sjors yeah
12:14 sri the whole question sounds wrong to me, so nothing i could say
12:14 sri stephan48: actually, not, missing template usually leads to render_not_found
12:15 Sjors well, if render() "doesn't do anything" because the template wasn't found, delayed rendering is assumed because the request gave no response
12:16 sri oh, actually it doesn't
12:16 stephan48 bug?
12:16 Sjors (I saw this in the output earlier)
12:17 sri guess it has to be that way due to auto rendering
12:17 sri feel free to dig
12:18 sri there should be a million tests
12:20 sri basically you would need to differentiate auto rendering from manual rendering
12:20 sri and somewhere call render_not_found
12:21 sri not a simple task
12:21 sri (if at all possible)
12:21 Sjors well, in this case, the mistake is easy: there is a render call, but the template wasn't found; this disables auto rendering and should call render_not_found
12:21 Sjors I have a test case if you want; it's only 3 files
12:22 sri it's not as easy as you think
12:22 Sjors four, actually: MyApp.pm, Example.pm, basic.t and my_app
12:22 sri well, patches welcome, if you can make it work without breaking tests
12:22 Sjors I'll take a look
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12:39 wsirc_8654474 Hello here! Guys the problem what Mojo::Upload does not work with this http://valums.com/ajax-upload/ ajax upload plugin. It because, i think, properly decoded by plugin. I using $self->req->content->asset to work with this upload. This is right way or i do something wrong? Thanks. And sorry i am newbe.
12:40 wsirc_8654474 not properly*
12:40 wsirc_8654474 $self->req->upload('blabla') empty, then uploading with this js pluign
12:42 stephan48 can you give us a sample app?
12:42 stephan48 so we can test without setting up ajax upload ourself/check if you made errors?
12:46 wsirc_8654474 sure. give some time for this. BTW this is output of Data::Dumper::Dumper( $self->req)
12:46 wsirc_8654474 http://pastebin.com/nE286War
12:47 gtsafas So when you write tests you essentially rewrite them everytime you do a release right?
12:48 stephan48 rewrite?
12:48 purl rewrite is callback-based at the bedrock level
12:48 elb0w yeah because the code changes
12:49 stephan48 which tests?
12:49 purl which tests are failing?
12:53 perlrocks Twitter: "@kraih That it is too easy to get something running in a few lines of code? That's also true for creating complex apps in #mojolicious. :)" --arpadszasz http://twitter.com/arpadszas​z/status/108522623377477632
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12:55 sri wsirc_8654474: yes, it is the right way, ->upload is for multipart uploads
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13:00 GitHub32 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/h7NNkw
13:00 GitHub32 [mojo/master] hint at multipart/form-data content type for uploads - Sebastian Riedel
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13:02 wsirc_8654474 sri Thanks!
13:02 wsirc_8654474 stephan48  seems now we dont need test app
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13:22 wsirc_8654474 sri: That the best way check if upload goes on. i mean for multipart upload we check " if ( $self->req->uplod('blalba'))" ?
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14:23 rhaen well well well, let's go shopping
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14:29 sri shopping!
14:29 purl shopping is a drag. or a great time, if it's *barber* shopping! </kitch>
14:48 * xxtjaxx feels mislead by sri's doku on sessions and cookies in Mojolicious::Controller. :(
14:48 stephan48 PATCH IT!
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14:52 xxtjaxx stephan48: would like to if I hadn't misunderstood it again x(
14:52 xxtjaxx Dunno why or what I#m doing wrong at this moment.
14:53 xxtjaxx stephan48: care to take a look?
14:53 sri xxtjaxx: module pod is a reference, perhaps you should read the real documentation on sessions
14:53 * sri feels misunderstood
14:54 xxtjaxx sri: That in the wiki?
14:54 xxtjaxx Was there any in the wiki?
14:58 marcus xxtjaxx: think he means the guides
14:58 xxtjaxx Hum
14:59 xxtjaxx well there are snippets too...
14:59 xxtjaxx on the wik
14:59 xxtjaxx will look at those soon but first: Home is where I'm off to.
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15:57 Shaeto guys how to change namespace for specific route, i tried  $rn->route->namespace("Services::Api:​:Upload::Controller")->via('post')->t​o('job#create')->name('job_create') but server still looking for root route namespace
16:05 Shaeto okay found solution in irc logs, use ->to("xxxx", namespace=>'yyy:bbb')
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16:09 sri Shaeto: the documentation on namespaces answers that too
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16:10 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Gui​des/Routing#Route_To_Class_28_namespace_29
16:11 Shaeto thank you sebastian
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16:17 sri http://www.wacom.eu/index2.asp​?lang=en&amp;pid=9226&amp;gm=3 # need! :)
16:31 perlrocks Twitter: ""Atrocious mojo" is a technical term referring to some of the clever but perverted things you can do in #Perl.  #geek" --pymander http://twitter.com/pymander​/status/108577716147720192
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16:56 perlrocks Twitter: "Perl Mojolicious app on @DreamHost as Fast CGI seems a bit unstable.  Anyone else doing this?  #perl #mojolicious #sharedhosting #fastcgi" --bobfaist http://twitter.com/bobfaist​/status/108583783271374848
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17:13 elb0w sri: can you port mojo to R just so u can call it mojoricious
17:24 sri elb0w: no
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17:29 elb0w :(
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17:58 black god bless Mojo::JSON.
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18:08 marty black++  Mojo::JSON is awesome.
18:08 elb0w what did it do for you black?
18:14 black I'm on an academic project. we have a RESTful service (mojolicious) and an android BONDI application (client app).
18:15 black from the client I had to send XMLHttpRequest of urlencoded json strings to communicate with server
18:15 black and Mojo::JSON solved every problem of decoding simply calling
18:16 black $json->decode( $self->params('...') );
18:18 black marty: on the website the description for Mojo::JSON is "Minimalistic JSON implementation that just works."
18:18 black but it *really* works :D
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18:27 marty black:  Agreed.  I've never had it barf on me yet.  I'm using it with a restful api also using mongodb as the db.  It works wonderfully.
18:31 tempire I don't like richardbucker's response.  He skipped over the docs and went straight to the wiki, and still infers that it's our problem.
18:32 tempire No matter, I'm washing myself clean of the whole problem.
18:32 * tempire moves on to more sherrif-esque issues
18:40 sri he opened two issues
18:40 sri i think the right word is frivolous
18:41 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/210
18:42 tempire yeah.  I responded with one last comment; I think that's more than enough attention unless he wants to start contributing in some way.
18:42 xxtjaxx so I can make a cookie and show its value like this: http://pastebin.com/WYSTeqcu but When I check chromes cookies it says there are no cookies. What am I doing wrong?
18:45 * marty thinks TDD is a gift from an alien race 100 times smarter than us.  It is sooooo bad-ass
18:46 tempire marty: have you used devel::cover?
18:46 sri if they are so smart what do they need tests for?!
18:47 sri i've actually thought about removing wiki from the menubar
18:47 marty tempire: No I have not.  will look into it.
18:47 tempire dude.
18:47 sri dude.
18:47 tempire if you love tdd, devel::cover will blow your mind
18:48 sri unless you get caught in the 100% coverage trap
18:48 sri well… then it will literally blow your mind
18:49 tempire but the green is soooo pretty!
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19:06 xxtjaxx sri: tempire any help :)
19:15 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/210 # maybe someone else can explain it better
19:16 tempire I think you've done it just fine
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19:17 * sri goes into sleep mode
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22:07 tempire well
22:08 tempire http://cramp.in/
22:08 tempire seems….familiar :)
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22:47 ptinsley I seem to have run into a snag trying to setup a simple mojo project, I'm trying to get the authentication plugin setup and am routing things only if logged in and that is working fine.  The snag comes in with logout.  I made a /logout route that routes over to my auth#logout module / function and in there simply call $self->logout() and anytime I hit that page the perl process goes to 100% cpu usage and I have to kill it.  Any ideas on what could
22:47 ptinsley causing that?
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22:54 ptinsley actually on second look, it's eating up all of the ram and cpu on the box
22:55 ptinsley till oom-killer kills it
23:01 ptinsley renaming the action fixes it, i think it's worth submitting a bug for that, the server should detect too deep recursion and bail.  And secondarily i guess i'll contact the plugin author as I was just emulating how they are doing it in their unit tests.
23:02 ptinsley oh i see why the test works it's just an anonymous subroutine in the test
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