Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-09-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:41 tempire rhaen, stephan48: I'm not concerned about the page itself.  I'm more interested in where the media is hosted.
01:42 tempire I'd like to find a place in each part of the world that is around 50ms latency
01:42 tempire 'cause for jumping around to different parts of the video, it needs to have quick response times
01:43 tempire I don't even think the auto-syncing is all that important.
01:43 tempire just the redirecting based on location
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02:05 alnewkirk been a lil while since the last mojocast, ... *hint*
02:38 crab moo
02:55 perlrocks Twitter: "Sakura's fastest Mojolicious Standard:: Lite application to move! - Blog # perl http://t.co/mKVrwSl Cotton" (ja) --perl_m8y http://twitter.com/perl_m8y​/status/110908890903879680
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07:46 marcus a moo in need is a moo indeed
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08:05 cstamas I just found this http://blog.htbaa.com/news/rss-​and-atom-feed-for-blitzmax-com
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08:29 jmmills is there any mojolicious way to detect if the app is running under the development-server/daemon mode and/or the test mode?
08:30 jmmills or do I just need to use my own env variables
08:37 noganex jmmills: app->mode
08:37 purl well, app->mode is usually too late
08:37 noganex i wonder what this bot is trying to tell me...
08:38 jmmills cool, that should work for in memory db init
08:45 jmmills also, two more things
08:45 jmmills it seems that there isn't a auto-reload for controller changes in the mojolicious daemon
08:46 jmmills and is there any way (that I'm maybe not seeing) for routes to be declared via the controller rather than the $app->routes object?
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09:02 stephan48 jmmills: are you using morbo?
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09:08 * sri yawns
09:09 jmmills no, just running it via script/myapp.pl daemon
09:14 stephan48 ye
09:14 stephan48 that wonr have autoreload anymore
09:14 stephan48 wont*
09:17 jmmills morbo seems to work well well enough
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09:20 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc​/Mojolicious/Lite#Reloading # it's right at the top of the tutorial
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09:58 jmmills purl, JSONConfig
09:58 purl jmmills: what?
09:58 jmmills purl, mojo config
09:58 purl jmmills: what?
09:58 jmmills purl, stash('config')
09:58 purl jmmills: sorry...
10:05 jmmills okay, this is weird - it seems that my config file is being read but non of the data is available :\
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10:42 GitHub7 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/xt7bcA
10:42 GitHub7 [mojo/master] cleanup - Sebastian Riedel
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11:18 rhaen hello world
11:18 Shaeto could someone recommend stable apache + XXX solution for mojo application, i have tried mojolicious 1.97 + PSGI and found some trouble, for example after some time application lost paths and i see these errors in apache logs: XXXX does not exist, maybe a t ypo? same for templates
11:19 Shaeto after httpd restart mod_perl + psgi can find controllers and templates
11:21 crab why not just use mod_proxy?
11:21 crab and hypnotoad
11:21 purl hypnotoad is at http://www.r33b.net/ or ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!
11:21 jmmills or fcgi?
11:21 purl it has been said that fcgi is so ... well, fast. or the shiznit or has to die.
11:22 rhaen I am using apaches mod_proxy and hypnotoad and it works well for me
11:22 Shaeto yes i tried mod_proxy
11:22 Shaeto well mb you are right
11:23 Shaeto but seems there is problem with reverse proxy and big PUT/POST requests
11:23 crab jmmills: fcgi ugh
11:23 Shaeto will test again
11:24 sri no purl, hypnotoad is <reply> ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!!
11:24 purl okay, sri.
11:24 sri hypnotoad
11:24 purl ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!!
11:25 Shaeto so, community recommends mod_proxy + hypno frog ?:)
11:25 sri nginx is more common than mod_proxy
11:26 Shaeto only apache is available, no options
11:26 sri some people like rhaen swear by mod_proxy though
11:26 Shaeto anyway just for history - PSGI + mod_perl + Mojolicious works unstable
11:27 sri no big surprise there
11:27 sri pretty much nobody does mod_perl anymore these days
11:27 crab Shaeto: well, i've done big POSTs through a reverse proxy to hypnotoad and it worked fine
11:27 rhaen na, mod_proxy is just a nice way to intergrate stuff into bigger websites
11:27 crab i've done it with mod_proxy in the past, but now i use nginx in production
11:27 crab and i like it
11:28 rhaen for single website I would go with hypnotoad
11:28 Shaeto thank you for info
11:28 Shaeto mb you have expirience how to run hypnotoaded project from SysV script ?
11:29 Shaeto start/stop
11:29 Shaeto it seems hypnotoad daemon very strong even disconnected console doesn't kill it :)
11:30 rhaen yep.
11:30 rhaen hang on
11:30 Shaeto ok
11:32 crab you have to use a pitchfork to kill it
11:32 crab and some torches
11:32 rhaen I'll have a script for you:)
11:32 Shaeto what i need to do to get it ?:)
11:34 rhaen nothing :) We are nice people :) Mojolicious people
11:35 Shaeto good :)
11:35 rhaen huh,
11:36 rhaen hang on - anonymizing some sources...
11:36 Shaeto sure
11:36 rhaen ah, that's for a RHEL6 host
11:36 rhaen do you run RHEL or CentOS?
11:37 Shaeto fedora 15, very compatible :)
11:37 sri anyone used cherokee yet?
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11:39 rhaen the car?
11:39 purl rumour has it the car is the address pointer of a cons cell or sex or british for automobile or said to be the best remote admin tool for Windows NT or Catalyst::Action::REST
11:39 sri -.-
11:39 sri http://www.cherokee-project.com/
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11:48 sri btw. please add your companies and projects to https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Pro​jects-and-Companies-Using-Mojolicious
11:48 sri !
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12:03 Grauwolf sri, cherokee ist nice
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12:05 marcus sri: Can I override Mojolicious::Sessions default_expiration on a per session basis?
12:06 sri marcus: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojoli​cious/Guides/Growing#State_Keeping
12:06 marcus sri: thanks.
12:08 sri really annoying that os x lion doesn't include mod_fastcgi anymore
12:13 marcus brew install nginx
12:13 marcus :)
12:14 sri can't test fastcgi easily with nginx
12:14 marcus ok
12:15 sri apache is still *the* fastcgi server anyway, i'd like to test with what most people actually use
12:16 sri sucks quite a bit that apache doesn't even have a brew recipe :(
12:17 sri just for making ab work again i would have expected one to pop up
12:17 sri i think brew might be dieing again
12:18 elb0w yeah I know
12:18 elb0w really?
12:19 elb0w Still get quite a bunch of updates
12:19 elb0w when I pull for new builds
12:20 noganex_ why not switch to macports?
12:20 elb0w over brew?
12:20 judofyr isn't that like going the wrong way?
12:21 sri well, macports has working apache recipes
12:21 sri so i might actually consider it
12:21 elb0w There is apache2 for mac though
12:21 noganex macports has a bigger repository.
12:21 elb0w noganex: is it maintained as much as git repo's?
12:22 elb0w I like that I can build from different branches for quick fixes
12:22 sri i've actually had quite a few brew upgrades fail recently
12:22 sri there is definitely a decline in quality
12:24 noganex i've tried both and i liked macports better. less trouble somehow...
12:27 elb0w I suffer from shiny new shit syndrome
12:27 elb0w so hard for me to use that
12:28 noganex well.. you're using a mac ;)
12:28 elb0w most my work is done by remoting into linux boxes anyway
12:29 elb0w I dont really have a need for many things other than mvim transmit and iterm2
12:29 elb0w transmit to mount the remote systems
12:29 sri why iterm2?
12:29 Grauwolf wtf @ last limitation: http://perldoc.perl.org/Switch.html#LIMITATIONS
12:29 elb0w mvim to edit it
12:29 noganex :D it's the opposite here. for work openbsd and at home mac ;)
12:29 elb0w iterm2 when im too lazy to mount the system
12:29 elb0w it supports 256colors in terminal
12:29 elb0w so I like it better than iterm
12:29 elb0w vim is prettier
12:29 sri lion terminal has 256 colors too
12:29 elb0w oh nice didnt know
12:30 noganex iterm2 has a nice history thingy... :)
12:30 Grauwolf sri, i like to split my terms so i have iterm2 too
12:30 elb0w yeah im used to iterm2 now
12:30 elb0w probably keep it
12:30 Grauwolf sri, i know that i could use tmux for that (i'm using it when i'm on linux) but it's easier with iterm2
12:30 elb0w transmit is probably one of the best purchases ive made since using mac
12:31 elb0w I just use terminator on linux
12:31 elb0w Dont really get the need for all these multiplexers
12:33 noganex transmit? isn't that some kind of ftp client? ;)
12:33 elb0w sort of
12:33 elb0w it does ftp
12:33 elb0w but they have their own way to mount remote fs's through sftp
12:34 elb0w so I can use mvim to edit remote files by going to /Volumes
12:34 crab grauwolf: why is it nice? i'm using nginx and i'm happy, is there anything about cherokee that i would find interesting, do you know?
12:34 elb0w like a fuse
12:35 sri garu: you owe us a test case!
12:35 * sri cracks the whip
12:36 noganex miracel whip? ;)
12:38 * garu hides behind marcus
12:38 marcus garu: are you saying I am fat???
12:39 garu marcus: that would make a good pun :)
12:39 garu "you're so fat I can hide behind you from BRAZIL!!"
12:41 garu oh no, now I hurt his feelings
12:41 garu marcus: sorry... you're not fat! You're just big boned :)
12:42 * marcus sits on garu
12:45 sri :)
12:46 * sri hands marcus some donuts
12:49 * marcus swallows them whole.
12:57 Grauwolf crab, no it's not better in being a webserver but it's easier to configure. i'm an nginx and apach-guy myself
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13:25 elb0w sri: they are all haters on freenode
13:25 elb0w :P
13:30 sri nobody said changing teh status quo is easy ;)
13:30 sri here's a motivation video from apple http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oAB83Z1ydE
13:36 * sri pokes garu
13:36 * sri cracks the whip
13:39 crab sri: if i'm sending a (long-)delayed response, do i need to do something to timeouts to prevent the connection from being closed?
13:40 sri only if it's over 15 seconds
13:40 crab Mojo::IOLoop::singleton->connecti​on_timeout($self->tx->connection => $thingy)?
13:40 sri ye
13:41 sri more common would be a heartbeat though
13:41 sri like a whitespace
13:41 sri to keep the client alive too
13:41 sri if you're doing chunked streaming
13:42 crab sri: i'm delaying brute-forcing password attackers. i want them to go away ;-)
13:42 sri that sound more like 3-5 seconds
13:42 sri nothing you have to do then
13:43 sri *+s
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13:55 sri garu: if you really can't turn it into a test case maybe try explaining the problem again
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14:00 garu sri: turning it into a test should be easy, I just haven't found the time to do so. The problem is this:
14:02 * sri pokes garu
14:04 garu sri: if the server generates a cookie with a cookie domain starting with a dot, say ".example.com", the RFC 6265 (section 4.1.2.3) states that the leading dot is wrong but in case it's found it should simply be discarded. This means that the client should send the cookie to both "example.com" and "foo.example.com". All browsers I tested this with (FF, Chrome, Opera) do this, but Mojo::UserAgent sends the cookie only if the website's at "example.com", not ".example.com
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14:04 sri i see
14:05 garu sri: this is because Mojo::CookieJar matches a key string, and since the "buggy" cookie domain value starts with a dot, it never matches
14:06 garu since changing the way the cookie is inserted felt like it could potentially lead to bugs, my patch simply looked for both cases
14:06 garu the patch is rather naive, though
14:07 garu and will look for "..example.com" during the loop if the key is ".example.com" and the target url is from a different domain
14:07 garu should be harmless, but it's yucky :)
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14:09 garu sri: what I thought of for a test case was a simple mojolicious app that added a dot-prefixed cookie domain, then making a connection to it via Mojo::UA and seeing if $ua->tx->req->cookies contained it
14:11 sri it's so much easier
14:11 sri and i told you yesterday already ;p
14:11 sri like 5 lines of code to test
14:11 garu oO
14:12 sri the cookiejar already has extremly simple unit tests
14:12 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/bl​ob/master/t/mojo/cookiejar.t#L37
14:12 sri that trivial
14:14 garu ha!
14:15 garu sri: I definitely have time to write that failing test now :)
14:15 sri too late!
14:15 sri i'm already working on a fix ;p
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14:19 judofyr garu: I know how it feels (to be slower than sri) :-(
14:20 sri heh, garu had like 24 hours :o
14:20 * garu hides in shame
14:20 * sri hugs garu
14:20 garu :D
14:22 judofyr no one can escape sri's hugs ;)
14:22 * sri hugs judofyr
14:23 sri it's how i steal your souls!
14:24 judofyr well, Perl hasn't replaced Ruby for me yet ;)
14:26 judofyr sri: is Mojo::Util exposed as helpers?
14:26 garu judofyr: it doesn't have to, as long as you have enough fun with it :)
14:26 judofyr I need to URL escape a thing in a TT-template
14:26 garu but I like the way you wrote "yet"
14:27 garu judofyr: there are fulters for URL escaping in TT
14:27 judofyr garu: :)
14:27 garu filters, even
14:27 judofyr garu: nice. how do they work?
14:27 judofyr maybe under the "Filters"-documentation? :)
14:28 judofyr found it!
14:28 garu [% foo | url %]
14:28 garu yeah, Template::Manual is your friend
14:29 garu sri: well? I don't have all day, you know
14:29 * garu runs
14:30 garu actually, I already fixed it in my end by simply removing the freaking dot from my cookie domain. But nevertheless it looks like something Mojo::UA should do for us
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14:40 GitHub7 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5en8mw
14:40 GitHub7 [mojo/master] fixed small bug in cookie jar and added many new tests - Sebastian Riedel
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14:40 * sri runs after garu
14:41 sri i always use there opportunities to add another 50 tests ;p
14:41 sri s/r/s/
14:44 sri and t is now officially 3000 SLOC ahead of lib :)
14:45 sri 12k SLOC in libraries and 15k SLOC in tests
14:45 garu sri++
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14:51 GitHub80 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/pe085g
14:51 GitHub80 [mojo/master] added a few more tests - Sebastian Riedel
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14:55 judofyr wtf? there's something wrong with Parallol. but when I insert a "print $self->{paralloling}" to debug the issue, it goes away o_O
14:56 judofyr actually
14:56 judofyr if I just add "$self->{paralloling}", it works
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14:59 judofyr I need just "$self" actually
14:59 judofyr sri: sounds like a reference counter bug in my code :(
15:00 judofyr ugh
15:01 judofyr sri: hm… I weaken($self) in my plugin
15:01 sri yea, those suck
15:01 Shaeto mb info for cookbook, for people who want to setup mod_proxy for https host to http hypnotoad: add <Location "/myapp"> RequestHeader set X-Forwarded-HTTPS "1" </Location> to https virtual host parameters
15:01 judofyr to don't create a cycle with $self->foo(…, $self->parallol(sub { $self->more_code }));
15:01 sri debugging that stuff can make your brain melt
15:01 Shaeto apache doesn't set X-Forwarded-HTTPS
15:03 judofyr s/don't/not/
15:03 judofyr but when I now *don't* use $self in the callback, it will be free'd :/
15:04 sri add a "$self;" line
15:04 judofyr sri: is there no way to support "this callback might capture $self or not" without introducing leaks or another parameter to the callback (like Mojo::UA)?
15:05 sri doubt it
15:05 judofyr and you say Perl don't really need a proper garbage collector? :/
15:06 sri i never said that ;p
15:06 sri people who don't do event loops say that
15:06 judofyr :)
15:06 judofyr or callbacks in general
15:07 sri closures in oo perl, for functional style it doesn't matter much either
15:09 judofyr why is there a cycle again?
15:09 judofyr my callback captures $self
15:09 judofyr Mojo::UA captures the callback
15:10 judofyr s/captures/closes over/ or whatever
15:11 judofyr and $self has a reference to the Mojo::UA I guess
15:11 judofyr nah, I still don't quite understand this…
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15:18 sri rhaen: do you have a mod_proxy configuration similar to this nginx one? http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Moj​olicious/Guides/Cookbook#Nginx
15:18 judofyr sri: is there a way to place a weaken($self) in Mojo::UserAgent? or does it have the exact same issues as I have?
15:19 sri prolly has the same issues
15:19 sri guess why i pass $self around as first argument
15:19 judofyr fuck Perl
15:19 sri i remember you asking me about the first argument some time ago, now you know ;p
15:19 judofyr (no offense purl)
15:19 judofyr sri: yeah, I remember :)
15:21 marcus judofyr: preparing to provide a new gc for perl 5.16? :D
15:21 sri rhaen: i'd like to get rid of the mod_perl recipe and maybe replace it with a mod_proxy one
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15:23 sri marcus: it wouldn't even have to be entirely new i guess, just something to resolve circular references
15:23 * sri doesn't know much about gc though
15:23 marcus sri: judofyr claims python has that.
15:24 judofyr "While Python uses the traditional reference counting implementation, it also offers a cycle detector that works to detect reference cycles. This allows applications to not worry about creating direct or indirect circular references; these are the weakness of garbage collection implemented using only reference counting"
15:25 marcus judofyr: sounds good :p
15:25 * sri googles and still finds rants about circular references in python
15:26 judofyr sri: what version? not sure if it's in Python 1.x
15:27 marcus seems they still have problems with circular imports - http://amix.dk/blog/post/19343
15:27 marcus love the last line "Circular imports are solved in languages such as Perl or Java."
15:27 judofyr I don't think that's related to reference counting
15:28 sri http://docs.python.org/extending​/extending.html#reference-counts
15:28 marcus here's one from 2010 http://py4j.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/memory-mana​gement-and-circular-references-in-python-part-1/
15:28 sri the docs make it look very simple
15:29 judofyr alright, I've got to go
15:30 marcus judofyr: cu tomorrow
15:31 marcus sri: seems if you use finalizers, you need to do some manual gc
15:33 marcus ooh, bridesmaids in 720p, my wife will be thrilled
15:38 sri i heard it's not a chick flick
15:38 sri gonna make sure and watch the unrated version
15:39 sri (and get stoned before watching it)
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15:42 noganex i guess 'getting stoned' is the only way to endure watching such a movie...
15:43 sri well, it has a good imdb rating
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15:56 perlrocks Twitter: "Sakura's fastest Mojolicious Standard:: Lite application to move! - Blog # howto http://t.co/8maqDFd Cotton" (ja) --howto_m8y http://twitter.com/howto_m8​y/status/111105519686656000
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16:06 perlrocks Twitter: "If it can be. Catalyst is this frustration. RT: Japanese translation document Mojolicious - GitHub http://t.co/6I0Jevk" (ja) --shugonumano http://twitter.com/shugonuma​no/status/111107971966177280
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16:23 sri no purl, viva la revolucion is <reply> VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!
16:23 sri viva la revolucion!
16:23 purl VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!
16:23 * sri pats purl
16:23 * purl purrs
16:24 DaniBunny what about "viva THE LA revoluTCion"?
16:24 marcus hmm
16:25 marcus bridesmaids rating is highest for females under 18.
16:25 marcus lowest for males over 45
16:25 marcus sri: seems getting baked before watching is a good iea.
16:25 marcus idea
16:26 sri :D
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16:47 DaniBunny ]exit
16:47 DaniBunny oops
16:47 DaniBunny :-)
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17:48 Topic for #mojo is now join the revolution ♥ http://mojolicio.ushttp://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/today
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18:52 marcus Watching it now...
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19:23 sri godspeed!
19:23 purl godspeed is probably about darkuncle's favorite though. or about a punk bike messenger speedfreak in SF, at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/03​12286805/qid=1030569969/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-95​58966-3182555?v=glance&amp;s=books&amp;n=507846 and by (: lynn breedlove) or a track by BT (the Hybrid remix is exceptional) or short for Godspeed You! Black Emperor
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20:51 marcus le sight
20:51 marcus -t
20:51 marcus sri: me no like
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21:07 GitHub110 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/uJzVFg
21:07 GitHub110 [mojo/master] fixed Hypnotoad to clean up lock files - Sebastian Riedel
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21:53 rhaen hep.
21:56 rhaen sri: mod_perl?
21:56 purl mod_perl is perl.apache.org or embedding a perl interpreter in the apache runtime or FOR WRITING APACHE EXTENSIONS NOT WEB APPLICATIONS. or good for http://bit.ly/cgGLcX, less good for my web app.
21:57 rhaen ah, got it
21:57 rhaen sri: you mean in Mojolicious::Guides::Cookbook?
22:52 mspo it can really do both
22:52 mspo mod_perl can also cache bytecode for perl programs (like cgi)
23:04 mspo I was going to try a deploy on mod_perl/Plack
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23:19 tempire mod_perl is for modifying the behavior of apache with perl
23:21 tempire all other uses indicate masochism
23:21 tempire or that it's 1999
23:23 chorny mod_perl allows different Perl programs to share memory for perl and preloaded modules
23:29 tempire so does fork
23:29 tempire I've never seen a good usage of mod_perl that didn't overcomplicate the issue
23:30 tempire (in terms of using apache as a daemon)
23:32 tempire well, my implication of "share" is misleading.
23:32 tempire I'm referring to copy-on-write memory savings.
23:32 tempire Also, I'm emotionally biased against apache.
23:33 tempire so on that basis, I declare myself correct.
23:54 j3nnn1 joined #mojo

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