Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-09-07

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:05 jmmills anyone have a recipe for renaming the (perl) namespace a mojo app is in?
01:05 jmmills I built a small app as a PoC for someone but need to change it's name
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02:24 echosystm how many (non-trivial) requests would a typical VM be able to sustain using fastcgi?
02:25 echosystm lets take the example of fetching data from a db, encoding the data as json and then returning it
02:26 echosystm i see all these benchmarks, but all theyre doing is showing how many connections can stay open at once
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03:46 jmmills Anyone know of any code snippets that may hint at how to use to helpers (for templates) from inside javascript
03:46 jmmills i.e. I'm trying to get a url_for to use in a jquery ajax request
04:45 bzero <script>ajax_request('<%== url_for('ajaxroute') %>', 'pupum')</script>
04:45 bzero Like this ^^^? :)
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05:19 Shaeto have to redirect user to REST original request path, $self->req->url->path gives me path to controller without /xxx/yyy params. how to get full path ? reconstruct using base path + parameters ?
05:44 Shaeto well, $self->req->url returns necessary path :) thanks
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08:09 perlrocks Twitter: "Test::Mojo – Intro into testing with CSS3 selectors: Testing with Mojo is great fun. The Mojolicious framework p... http://t.co/MmjNNKr" --vorcidel http://twitter.com/vorcidel​/status/111350239595724800
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08:22 judofyr sri: would you accept a patch that makes it possible to mark a attributes in Mojo::Base as weak?
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08:44 sri judofyr: nope
08:45 sri unless of course you find a really sleek solution that just works in all cases and doesn't affect performance
08:46 sri but i doubt that's possible
08:49 judofyr_ sri: I'm seeing cycles like these in TT-renderer plugin: http://pastie.org/2496142
08:50 judofyr but no matter what I weaken, I can't get them to go away :/
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08:52 sri weaken $provider->{renderer}
08:52 sri the ttrenderer code is a mess
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08:53 judofyr yeah, I figured it out now
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08:58 judofyr sri: if I'm writing a test for cycles, how can I only run it if Devel::Cycle is available?
08:58 judofyr I tried to wrap it in eval {}, but the "use"-statement still throws an exception
09:10 judofyr sri: I sent a pull request: https://github.com/abh/mojox-renderer-tt/pull/18
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09:14 sri judofyr: you should ask marcus these standard perl questions
09:14 sri https://github.com/kraih/m​ojo/blob/master/t/pod.t#L6
09:15 judofyr sri: I know, but he's not here right now
09:16 sri btw. the problem with weaken is making this form work without screwing up performance… package Foo; has 'bar', weaken => 1; … Foo->new(bar => $baz);
09:17 judofyr yeah, I noticed that too. right now you just bless the HASHREF, right?
09:17 sri ye
09:18 judofyr couldn't you just have a list of weakened attributes? weaken($_[0]->{$_}) for @list
09:19 sri sure, but that needs to be profiled seriously
09:19 judofyr sri: would you consider this a better test case? http://d.pr/Jl8o
09:19 sri i'm also rather opposed to using singletons
09:20 judofyr I guess I should really move it into another file
09:20 judofyr but it makes much more sense to check for cycles in the app we're already testing
09:20 sri no, optional stuff always gets its own test file in my code
09:21 judofyr it would lead to duplicate code here though
09:21 sri there are also Test:: modules for cycle detection you could use
09:21 judofyr there is?
09:21 sri many
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09:21 sri just don't ask me which one is the best ;p
09:21 judofyr so which should I use?
09:21 judofyr haha
09:23 judofyr okay, I'm just going to leave the test case and let the maintainer decide how he wants it
09:23 judofyr seems like there's 10 different way to write it
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09:27 judofyr sri: I opened an issue: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/216
09:27 judofyr what do you use to profile such things?
09:28 sri NYTProf
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09:34 sri judofyr: closed the issue with a comment -.-
09:34 judofyr heh, can't stand an open issue? :-)
09:34 sri nope :)
09:35 sri i've tried to use issues as a todo list in the past, but it didn't work so well
09:35 judofyr where's your TODO list now?
09:35 judofyr why not btw?
09:35 sri there is none
09:35 sri don't know why, nobody participated in discussions
09:36 sri maybe it's because we overuse irc a bit
09:41 sri judofyr: btw. first start with "perldoc Benchmark"
09:50 DaTa I \N{HEAVY BLACK HEART} Mojo::DOM https://gist.github.com/1200065
10:18 sri :D
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11:12 sri http://www.playframework.org/2.0 # oh, i like how they show the differences between major releases
11:16 sri haha, they have a razor like template system now
11:16 sri i somehow was expecting a java framework to pick that up
11:17 sri https://github.com/playframework/play-sca​la/blob/master/samples-and-tests/zenconta​ct/app/views/Application/list.scala.html
11:17 sri good example
11:17 purl rumour has it good example is the OLE shit
11:18 sri no purl, good example is <reply> NO IT ISN'T!
11:18 purl okay, sri.
11:18 DaTa good example
11:18 purl NO IT ISN'T!
11:19 sri no purl, good example is <reply> NO IT IS NOT!
11:19 purl okay, sri.
11:26 sri yko: what do you think about weaken support in Mojo::Base?
11:29 judofyr yko: I've already found two cases in the TT-renderer-plugin where a "has 'foo', weaken => 1" would fix a memory leak
11:29 sri judofyr: that's not correct
11:29 judofyr no?
11:30 sri proper use of weaken() would have fixed it too
11:30 yko i was reading that issue, but did not found what to say more than sri said
11:30 judofyr yes
11:30 judofyr yes, but even my little fix isn't perfect
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11:30 judofyr weaken => 1 would be more robust
11:31 yko it is possible to implement has(foo => 1, weaken => 1), and I could support that in Mojo::Base::XS, but that will slow down performance
11:31 judofyr e.g. I don't handle resetting of $provider->renderer, which would be rather awkward way to fix now :/
11:31 judofyr s/way//
11:32 yko and I think that reference count is more author responsibility
11:33 judofyr yko: how would you suggest to handle MyThing->new(app => $app)?
11:34 judofyr as an author, I would have to override ::new
11:35 judofyr which isn't very elegant IMO :/
11:35 judofyr because then I'll have to call SUPER and whatnot
11:35 judofyr but yeah, it's about trade-offs
11:36 yko you need to weaken references in constructor, but most people - don't
11:36 sri wow, performance cost is *HUGE*
11:36 yko ^^^
11:36 judofyr sri: what's so slow?
11:36 purl it has been said that so slow is the only reason this isn't in widespread use?
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11:37 yko so, i think it's better if 3-4 authors define own constructor that calls SUPER than whole framework will loose it's speed
11:37 yko i't only my opinion, though
11:38 judofyr sri: here's my silly implementation: https://gist.github.com/1200345
11:38 judofyr (but remember that I don't really know Perl)
11:39 judofyr sri: how do you store the weakened attributes?
11:39 sri yours is even more expensive
11:39 judofyr wait, couldn't we also compile a new ::new?
11:40 judofyr I'm not surprised :)
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11:40 sri http://pastie.org/2496705
11:41 judofyr sri: why do you weaken everything?
11:41 sri goes from 1010101.01/s now to 293255.13/s
11:42 sri i would do it differently for real use
11:42 sri but for my Foo->new benchmark it didn't matter
11:42 sri just wanted to see how much the side effects cost
11:43 sri rigth way would be to check the cache keys
11:44 sri anyway, this benchmark was without any actual attributes
11:44 judofyr sri: a fair comparison would be (1) performance of no weakened attributes (before vs. after) and (2) performance of weaked => 1 vs. manually overriding ::new/accessors
11:45 sri it doesn't really matter, there is no way you could get even remotely close to the current numbers
11:46 sri and no, i don't think compiling a fresh new is an option
11:47 sri no it isn't
11:47 purl oh yes it is!
11:48 * sri kicks purl
11:48 purl NEWSFLASH: LAMER ATTACKS INFOBOT. FILM AT 11
11:48 sri -.-
11:48 judofyr what matters is: do we slow down the common case (no weakened attributes)?
11:48 sri yes we do as shown above
11:48 sri by 2/3
11:49 sri btw. compiling a constructor doesn't work because some people use Foo->attr() to make new attributes on the fly
11:50 yko judofyr, why don't you do just as I did via -infect interface
11:50 stephan48 infect?
11:50 purl i heard infect was a Damian Conway module
11:50 judofyr yko: what's that?
11:50 purl somebody said that was what I'm trying to figure out.  The session that is listening on the port.
11:50 yko for example use Mojo::Base::XS -infect; bites Mojo and makes whole framework 15-20% faster
11:51 sri monkey patching perl style :)
11:51 judofyr sri: ah, I think I misunderstood the code… that code doesn't even call weaken()?
11:51 yko it's V style! you became faster and harder but well.. you need to hide from lights :)
11:52 * sri hands yko a bottle of true blood
11:53 * yko drinks and burps
11:55 yko most of users don't need weaken feature but they would suffer from it,. Mojolicious uses attributes and constructors very often, speed will decrease
11:55 sri judofyr: http://pastie.org/2496761 # an actual implementation
11:55 yko why don't have subclassed base for those, who need 'weaken' ?
11:56 judofyr yko: what if you need to subclass something *and* add a weakened attribute?
11:57 sri yko: i have to admit the weaken($stream->{ioloop}) calls we have in Mojolicious annoy me a little too
11:57 yko sri: i know :)
11:57 sri then again, maybe there's just a better pattern that wants to be discovered
11:59 yko did you measure the speed if no weakened attributes defined?
11:59 sri that's what i measured
12:00 sri costs 2/3
12:00 sri no sttributes at all
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12:00 sri it only gets more costly
12:01 judofyr use Mojo::Base -weaken; use Mojo::Base '-weaken Mojolicious::Controller';
12:01 judofyr is that a solution?
12:01 sri eww
12:01 yko wait... perl -E 'my %x; print $x{foo} || 1; say exists $x{foo} ? "OK" : "FAIL"'
12:01 judofyr as yko suggested
12:02 sri don't think that's what yko suggested
12:02 yko %{$CACHE->{$class} || {}} -- does not actually create hash element, so you create new anon hashref every time
12:02 yko maybe  %{$CACHE->{$class} ||= {}} would help?
12:03 sri yko: i actually let import set a hash every time
12:03 sri so it's a noop
12:04 judofyr sri: why no -weaken btw?
12:04 sri it's ugly
12:04 sri doesn't fit in at all
12:05 yko judofyr, i meant subclassing, not patching Mojolicious kernel
12:05 judofyr yko: ah
12:05 yko also... $CACHE elements better would be array rather than hash
12:05 sri true
12:06 sri oh
12:06 yko um?
12:06 sri now we have jumped to 529100.53/s
12:06 judofyr sri: what's the problem we re-defining ::new again? even if someone calls Foo->attr('foo'), we could re-define it, no?
12:06 yko :D
12:06 yko only 2 times slower?
12:07 sri judofyr: it might be overloaded, and we redefine the overloaded one
12:07 sri yko: half as fast
12:07 judofyr sri: ah, good point
12:08 yko well, if you really want that in core...
12:09 sri i'm not convinced either
12:09 yko one thing I don't like it's you loose control a bit. you should exactly know is  setter of this attribute weak or no
12:09 yko and you maybe have to document it for each weak accessor too
12:09 sri weaken is such an ugly mechanic…
12:10 judofyr PERL SUCKS
12:10 yko both variants are bad
12:10 * sri nods
12:10 yko as much as love, House MD approved that
12:11 judofyr just because it's half as fast doesn't mean that it will speed down an actual application though. how much time is actually spent in a constructor?
12:12 sri we use that constructor everywhere
12:12 yko huh. if you implement that i'll have another thing on my todo list -_-
12:12 yko mojolicious actually constructs and destroys tons of objects
12:12 sri even for very tiny objects that get instantiated maybe a thousand times per request
12:13 sri like yko said, his xs implementation makes mojolicious apps 10% faster
12:13 yko sri: about 20% on 'Not found' page. I didn't 'real solid mature benchmarks' for sure, but...
12:13 sri and it will only matter more the higher level we go in the future
12:15 yko exactly. that's why I care about XS - we can shut up any mouthhole who will complain about speed :)
12:15 sri for now the best option i think would be a Mojo::Base fork with weaken support
12:15 yko sri++
12:15 sri if you care that much about it
12:16 yko few times i was insist on some features in core, but then i realized: wait. it's actually only me who wants such specific thing to be in core
12:17 yko next 3 years maybe there will be 2 or 3 users who use it. so why it should be in core then?
12:18 sri maybe we can also come up with a better idiom
12:18 yko it's cool to have things you want just appear in framework, but if it's needed by minority and affects majority...
12:18 sri an alternative to attributes for stuff that needs to be weakened
12:19 yko sri: since you are interested, I believe it's coming soon :)
12:19 sri don't count on it, i've been trying to solve this problem ever since i rewrote ioloop :/
12:20 sri did you know that in the beginning Mojo::Base actually had "weaken => 1"? :)
12:21 yko lol. i didn't
12:21 sri and it was just like you said… "wait, there is only one person using this feature…yada yada"
12:23 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/ef6eca81e53b1f​eed39061d9b010ffca4545d755/lib/Mojo/Base.pm#L203
12:23 sri there were even a few more flags
12:25 judofyr sri: that doesn't seem to weaken in the constructor
12:25 sri it didn't
12:26 sri i never said it was good ;p
12:26 judofyr :)
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13:23 rhaen hello world.
13:23 purl hello world. are you here?
13:24 rwstauner joined #mojo
13:26 rhaen hej rwstauner :)
13:33 perlrocks Twitter: "http://t.co/wMpLbZJ MOJOLICIOUS CARDS PULLED TODAY (1/1's)!!!!!!" --bizbrine http://twitter.com/bizbrine​/status/111431887318298624
13:33 perlrocks Twitter: "http://t.co/GWCxeAY MOJOLICIOUS CARDS PULLED TODAY (1/1's)!!!!!!" --bizbrine http://twitter.com/bizbrine​/status/111431933539524608
13:33 perlrocks Twitter: "http://t.co/dX4xtEl MOJOLICIOUS CARDS PULLED TODAY (1/1's)!!!!!!" --bizbrine http://twitter.com/bizbrine​/status/111431992222027777
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13:53 jfuller Any tips for converting a catalyst application to mojolicious?
13:53 DaniBunny Holiday in Brazil = Coding @ Home
13:56 crab jfuller: read the guides
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14:00 Grauwolf yay. akron forked my newsthingy
14:00 rwstauner rhaen: hey
14:01 stephan48 Grauwolf: cool :)
14:01 stephan48 Grauwolf: it works good
14:01 stephan48 althou i jus tested it few mins :)
14:03 Grauwolf stephan48, well, the feed management page can only list feeds and delete them. if you want to add a feed you have to do it manually in the db
14:04 stephan48 yap
14:04 Grauwolf ord edit
14:04 stephan48 already done that
14:04 Grauwolf *or
14:04 Akron joined #mojo
14:04 Grauwolf but the next weekend will come and hopefully i'll be motivated enough
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14:05 Akron Grauwolf: I like it. Hopefully I will be able to contribute something to it.
14:05 stephan48 :)
14:05 stephan48 maybe some sort of auth?
14:05 Grauwolf Akron, would be awesome
14:06 Grauwolf stephan48, currentlich i'm using it behind an nginx which handles the auth
14:06 Grauwolf but why not :)
14:06 stephan48 k
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15:22 elb0w i love mojo
15:24 eugen joined #mojo
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15:49 marcus i love lucy
15:49 perlrocks Twitter: "Trying some small prototyping in Mojolicious. It's really impressive, the best Perl web framework." --JP_Pandey http://twitter.com/JP_Pande​y/status/111466216538914816
15:51 jmmills I love mojo
15:51 jmmills ...
15:51 jmmills jojo
15:53 njlg joined #mojo
15:54 marcus bestraffe mich!
16:01 marcus fucking google requires a post method to get a token, while facebook uses get \o/
16:01 marcus hmm the spec says post
16:01 marcus fucking facebook then, I guess
16:02 elb0w google's token bigger?
16:05 marcus I'll show you a bigger token!
16:06 grim_fandango joined #mojo
16:10 * elb0w is sick of aws
16:20 marcus Sehnsucht!
16:29 Akron marcus: Achtung!
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16:53 grim_fandango Shouldn't app->req->url->base work from within a template?  I must be missing something.
16:54 grim_fandango I would appreciate a clue if anyone has one!
16:59 alnewkirk grim_fandango, probably not, probably $self->req->url->base
16:59 grim_fandango Thanks alnewkirk, that works.
16:59 alnewkirk yup :}
17:00 grim_fandango I didn't realize you could do $self from within these templates.
17:00 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin 0.4 for OAuth2 MRAMBERG - http://t.co/LyNUlqT" (af) --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_new​/status/111483981614166018
17:00 alnewkirk grim_fandango, yup, and the helpers are included also
17:01 grim_fandango Noted!
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17:38 rhaen booh!
17:42 * sri falls off chair
17:42 rhaen :)
17:43 rhaen what about the proxy thing? Should I include it in Mojolicious::Guides::Cookbook and send you a pull request?
17:54 sri not sure yet how and where it will fit in
17:56 sri it basically needs to replace the mode_perl recipe and move 2 places up or so
17:58 rhaen ok, I'll pull you then
18:01 sri if you already have something send a pull request so i can take a look
18:01 rhaen sure
18:02 rhaen will do, dinner first :)
18:02 sri puny humans
18:05 rhaen life is no ponylicking
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18:38 grim_fandango Is there a way to get to a stash value from the layout template that has been set via $self->stash(message => "foo") in the controller?
18:39 grim_fandango I've tried setting something in the controller but stash 'message' in the layout template doesn't give me anything.
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18:59 GitHub33 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/i0cang
18:59 GitHub33 [mojo/master] moved mod_perl recipe to the wiki - Sebastian Riedel
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19:00 sri rhaen: actually i'm not sure anymore, maybe mod_proxy shouldn't be in the cookbook
19:01 sri maybe nopaste your config so i can think it over
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19:11 sri http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2011/09​/06/september-2011-web-server-survey.html # not unrelated, apache and nginx usage is exploding
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19:13 sri rhaen: guess it depends how close the config is to the nginx one
19:14 sri a direct translation could be quite useful
19:15 bpaluch_ if I want to set up a websocket connection, and then come back to it later I should use the connection function to get its id, and then use the same function to return the transaction later right?
19:30 tempire What's the google server?
19:30 tempire app-engine?
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19:35 rhaen sri: basic one is https://gist.github.com/1201496
19:39 sri rhaen: does that set all the special headers the nginx config sets?
19:40 rhaen let me check, I am an apache person. I'll check the nginx config
19:40 sri basically what i'm looking for is a 1:1 translation
19:41 sri oh, what i wanted to ask, does mod_proxy support keep alive to backend servers?
19:43 rhaen sri: sure it does.
19:43 sri neat
19:43 rhaen http://mojo.fcntl.de/welcome - here is a nice error page so you see what apache sets for headers
19:43 sri because nginx doesn't
19:43 rhaen sri: plus you can configure timeouts, balance servers, balance ratios etc..
19:46 rhaen the apache modules mod_proxy, mod_proxy_balancer are usually sold under its value
19:46 rhaen plus - fun stuff:
19:47 rhaen ProxyPassMatch ^.*\.(gif|png|js|css) !
19:47 rhaen is a rule to tell apache to serve image stuff and don't pass it through the proxy rules.
19:50 rhaen oh did I mentioned configurable memory caching for proxy elements?
19:50 rhaen *sober*
19:52 bpaluch_ should Mojo::Transaction->connection($connectionID) return a Mojo::Transaction::Websocket object if the original connectionID was a ws? like this http://pastebin.com/X6vAs1H9
19:53 rhaen sri: oh, you have to enable keepalive, tho. Gist updated.
19:54 grim_fandango Huh, seems to be working now.
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20:35 elb0w Whats stopping someone from using this to spy on someone else? http://preyproject.com/
20:49 grim_fandango I use a motion-activated webcam that looks over my office when I'm away.  Works well.
20:49 grim_fandango Never seen prey before.
20:49 grim_fandango Interesting.
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21:14 GitHub32 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/68​5571becc8f7cba6ed4046c456e508714e4de0e
21:14 GitHub32 [mojo/master] improved CSS of all built in templates - Sebastian Riedel
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21:15 sri typography should be a lot better
21:15 sri it's live on http://mojolicio.us now
21:15 sri no more text shadows
21:18 sri bye bye serifs
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21:30 GitHub176 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/df​bb1b5d337a9528efd87d06b201a2f9cda7ca86
21:30 GitHub176 [mojo/master] small css tweak - Sebastian Riedel
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21:31 perlrocks Twitter: "Tweaked the #mojolicious documentation browser a bit, typography should be a lot more pleasant now. http://t.co/iSEHZGI #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/111552218376835072
21:51 sri rhaen: what about X-Forwarded-HTTPS?
21:53 sri or any other random X-Forwarded-* headers, are they just passed through?
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22:36 sri tempire: think i'd like to change the link in the menu to Screencasts
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22:38 GitHub166 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/b3​3d774ecc104ed7f6fd87927fa5bf51561127a3
22:38 GitHub166 [mojo/master] renamed Mojocasts link to Screencasts - Sebastian Riedel
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22:38 sri it looks better imo
22:45 tempire fine with me
22:46 tempire it does look better
22:46 tempire more obvious
22:46 purl i heard more obvious was that even possible?
22:46 sri \o/
22:47 sri no purl, more obvious is <reply> is that even possible?
22:47 purl okay, sri.
22:48 * sri wonders if anyone will even notice the new typography
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23:15 tempire I noticed
23:15 tempire in the navigation bar at least
23:16 tempire kind of dark, though
23:17 tempire the black on white text in the rest of the page looks great, though
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23:23 GitHub121 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/0b​9279021e4ef0d5ccff367330b44785fba707e5
23:23 GitHub121 [mojo/master] CSS tweaks - Sebastian Riedel
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23:24 sri tempire: better?
23:26 tempire better
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