Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-10-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 GitHub9 joined #mojo
00:00 GitHub9 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/IitPKg
00:00 GitHub9 [mojo/master] removed transaction and upgrade events from Mojo::Server - Sebastian Riedel
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00:13 sri not easy to decide which events are needed and which not
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00:30 MojoGuest481 From: http://www.google.com/search?gcx=c&ix=c2&​sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=websocket+demo (1 hits)
00:31 MojoGuest481 hello
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00:31 MojoGuest853 From: http://www.google.com/search?gcx=c&ix=c2&​sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=websocket+demo (2 hits)
00:31 MojoGuest481 web sockets are fun
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01:23 tempire I kind of like the ->on() syntax
01:23 tempire that way you can feed multiple in via a list
01:24 tempire super clean
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04:07 tempire lists lists lists!
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05:11 sri tempire: what i don't like about favoring ->on() is that there would be ->on_* attributes left, and a few methods like the ones in Mojo::IOLoop that work slightly different
05:16 sri on the other hand it would be consistent with all other eventemitter classes
05:28 tempire lists lists lists!
05:29 tempire if the ioloop methods were the only ones that kept the on_* attribute syntax, the difference wouldn't be so bad
05:29 tempire not sure which on_* would have to stay, though.
05:31 sri they have entirely different semantics
05:31 sri $loop->on_read($id => sub {...})
05:31 sri since they set event handlers for connection ids
05:33 tempire hmm
05:33 tempire if ->on() events ever need another parameter for any reason, it could be a problem
05:33 sri they won't
05:33 tempire well, even then, stuff could be passed in a closure
05:34 sri since e can have different methods
05:34 sri like ->once(foo => sub {…})
05:34 sri (runs the event handler only once)
05:34 tempire true enough
05:35 sri once is actually another reason for deprecating the on_* method alternatives
05:35 tempire even then, on *could* still work if you move backwards through the params
05:41 sri oh, and there will be on_finish/on_message methods in Mojolicious::Controller
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05:43 tempire that doesn't seem like a problem.  controller is generally just a proxy to other things anyway, to make it easier to access.
05:43 tempire *since controller is...
05:43 tempire far be it from me to tell you how controller works :)
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06:19 GitHub164 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/gXu9Hw
06:19 GitHub164 [mojo/master] deprecated various on_* methods - Sebastian Riedel
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06:29 perlrocks Twitter: "#mojolicious now has exactly 30% more SLOC in tests than in libraries. :) #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/124008873613991936
06:31 perlrocks Twitter: "Simple web-based interface for system administration for Unix written in Perl and Mojolicious http://t.co/vB7LDahi" --alexgavrishev http://twitter.com/alexgavris​hev/status/124009255597645824
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06:44 MojoGuest464 From: http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&amp​;q=http://dev.xantus.org&usg=A​FQjCNF_rM6vpg9DT3eh4McOgWqn8mn5Xw (2 hits)
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07:30 GitHub121 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/8Fkm2Q
07:30 GitHub121 [mojo/master] updated changes - Sebastian Riedel
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07:38 GitHub84 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5x7jJg
07:38 GitHub84 [mojo/master] fixed typo - Sebastian Riedel
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09:00 MojoGuest347 From: http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&source=web&am​p;cd=2&ved=0CCYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fd​ev.xantus.org%2F&rct=j&q=irc%20client%2​0with%20websockets&ei=91aVTp6vDobt-gair8mdC​A&usg=AFQjCNGw6nZv0wO42uzUnHhWcD0vcKNULg (1 hits)
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10:38 Nafigator Hi to all!
10:41 Nafigator How to set $ENV{"NLS_LANG"} for oracle in Mojolicious:Lite? I trying put it to begin of Myapp.pl but mojo saving my text data is not correct.
10:42 Nafigator $ENV{"NLS_LANG"} = 'AMERICAN_AMERICA.AL32UTF8';
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10:52 crab "mojo saving my text data is not correct"? What?
10:56 Nafigator i making sql query from mojolicious with cyrillic fields in query but data siving in not correct incoding in oracle
10:56 Nafigator *encoding
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11:14 GitHub48 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/FIEB5g
11:14 GitHub48 [mojo/master] added experimental slice method to Mojo::Collection - Sebastian Riedel
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11:36 marcus SLICE
11:38 judofyr SPLICE
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11:39 azawawi hi
11:41 marcus SPICE
11:42 marcus : He who controls the Spice, controls the universe!
11:42 azawawi :)
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11:45 MojoGuest965 From: http://www.google.ca/search?gcx=c&sourcei​d=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=html5+irc+client (1 hits)
11:47 perlrocks Twitter: "#mojolicious hack of the day: web scraping with collections. http://t.co/OLnqfGfe #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/124088721770426368
11:52 sri \o/
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11:53 sri not sure about the last example, but i couldn't think of anything better
11:53 sri just wanted to show as many features as possible
11:54 marcus lol
11:55 marcus like how you add experimental features in order to write a hack of the day :)
11:55 sri documentation driven development :D
12:10 sri and updated the gist again to make it a little more fun
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12:15 MojoGuest440 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (26 hits)
12:19 sri http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/l9gg1/m​ojolicious_hack_of_the_day_web_scraping_with/
12:19 sri seriously, what am i doing wrong to get downvoted so much?
12:22 stephan48 1 downvote = much?
12:22 stephan48 maybe you need to convert more dancer/cat fanboys to mojo?
12:23 sri no matter what i post to reddit, it gets downvoted heavily
12:23 sri and how does one convert fanbois?
12:24 stephan48 idk
12:25 sri it was your suggestion -.-
12:29 sri maybe the hack of the day posts are just not good
12:29 sri perhaps i should stop writing them for a bit
12:44 crab maybe you should write them and stop worrying about posting them to reddit or who downvotes them
12:44 judofyr sri: any reason why map/grep can't look like ->map { $_->text } ?
12:48 sri crab: i'd like to improve the quality, but the lack of feedback makes it really hard
12:48 sri judofyr: perl
12:48 judofyr sri: I thought you could have blocks at the first argument…
12:49 judofyr oh wait, $self is the first argument?
12:49 sri yes
12:51 sri i think on reddit it's a certain troll that downvotes me, not too concerned about that
12:51 plu I just registered and did a upvote
12:52 sri \o/
12:52 plu took me 5 minutes to find the button :)
12:52 crab sri: i never really get feedback on my mojo articles either
12:52 plu I guess I have a tunnel vision or some other silly disease
12:53 crab i'm going to keep writing them, though for the moment i've run out of ideas about what to write
12:53 sri crab: i used to get more, maybe i'm not provocative enough anymore :/
12:53 sri DID I GET SOFT?
12:54 perlrocks Twitter: "Sebastian Riedel (sri): Mojolicious hack of the day: Web scraping with collections http://t.co/xqM7F0nF" --perlironman http://twitter.com/perlironm​an/status/124105593253408768
12:54 * crab lends sri his old shell
12:54 sri \o/
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12:55 azawawi hmmm. I should really improve Padre's support for Mojo
12:58 azawawi what editors do support Mojo at the moment?
12:59 metaperl sri uses textmate with it
12:59 metaperl azawawi: you mean the template language?
13:00 azawawi im one of the developers of Padre and would like to know how to improve Padre's editor support for Mojo
13:02 azawawi any suggestions?
13:02 purl "I suggest you don't smoke cigarettes ... and don't touch yourself when you're chillin' at the bus stop."
13:02 azawawi :)
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13:03 metaperl lol
13:03 sri i think most consider ep template highlighting the primary requirement for mojolicious support
13:03 * sri hugs purl
13:03 purl sri: get off me, you botvert!
13:03 metaperl lol
13:04 metaperl but that was SEBASTIEN RIEDEL hugging you purl
13:04 sri azawawi: you could take a look at my textmate bundle on github
13:04 * azawawi takes a look
13:05 sri it's just ep highlighting and a few snippets
13:05 azawawi link plz? :)
13:06 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo-tmbundle
13:07 sri http://twitpic.com/29u217/full # and this is how i like my ep highlighting
13:08 driller azawawi: that would be great if you could (improve the padre support for mojo)
13:08 sri no wait
13:08 sri http://twitpic.com/29y9v5/full # this one is newer :)
13:08 azawawi so basically inline ep highlighting in Perl files
13:09 azawawi that will be a tough one to pull inside LexPerl (Wx::Scintilla)
13:09 azawawi but im going to try it :)
13:09 sri yko made it work in vim too
13:10 sri https://github.com/yko/mojo.vim # the vim bundle
13:13 crab what's padre good for?
13:13 metaperl padre looks real good. I've been investigating that since azawawi mentioned he develops for it - http://padre.perlide.org/
13:14 metaperl I have been tempted to try it, which is sacrilege to The One True Editor ... but it's so tempting
13:14 azawawi basically we had a problem with older wxWidgets editor components (Wx::STC)
13:14 azawawi but now we have Wx::Scintilla that overcomes that problem
13:14 metaperl does it install cpan modules? it would be neat to right-click on a module and choose install
13:15 azawawi it is going through a lot of changes atm
13:15 azawawi "version control" tab
13:15 metaperl padre has git support?
13:15 azawawi at the moment, svn command line
13:15 metaperl oh you mean version control tab does cpan things?
13:15 azawawi but we have svn/git diff box support
13:16 azawawi at  the moment no
13:16 azawawi but i was thinking something like the following scenario
13:16 azawawi you get an error telling you do not have module X in syntax check
13:16 azawawi you get suggestions on how to fix it by installing it through Padre
13:17 metaperl something hit cpan recently called ii::lx or something
13:17 metaperl it does something like that
13:17 azawawi it is written in Perl so we can do that
13:17 azawawi i've been thinking about metacpan API support in Padre
13:18 azawawi but at the moment we're revamping the editor. that's why i asked how i could improve things
13:18 metaperl crab: I think #padre is a good place to ask about the place of padre in the editor space
13:18 * sri wants to finally try the textmate 2 alpha
13:19 metaperl I often keep 4 views of the same file open in emacs ---
13:19 crab metaperl: maybe if i was less lazy
13:19 crab i figure if it's really good, someone will eventually tell me why, and eventually if i feel motivated, i can try it
13:20 azawawi Padre 0.92 will be awesome! :)
13:20 metaperl oh yeah?
13:20 purl totally!
13:22 sri only cross platform editor i've encounered so far that really works (visually) is sublime 2
13:28 sri (which is actually mostly python)
13:37 gtsafas I just had a possibly funny idea
13:37 elb0w Should make Git-libs
13:37 elb0w like mad-libs
13:37 elb0w read the comments of all commits in
13:38 elb0w and fill in a stories blanks with them
13:40 crab and then the little girl said "fixed another typo"?
13:41 crab (i'm thinking about little red riding hood)
13:49 sri that could be hilarious
13:54 crab "grandma, what big teeth you have!" "added experimental slice method to Mojo::Collection"
13:56 elb0w haha
13:56 elb0w lets do it
13:56 elb0w shouldnt be hard
13:56 elb0w just need to parse git log
13:56 elb0w do it on mojo
13:57 elb0w pass mojo a github url have it generate it from that
13:58 elb0w haha im gonna do this tonight
13:58 elb0w gonna make it like a storybook too
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14:52 sri hmm, all links on reddit perl actually have that many downvotes these days
14:52 sri guess i'll just leave reddit then
14:57 stephan48 maybe post it under php... when you get upvotes you ultimatively know that they dont read the content they vote upon, when you get downvotes... hey actually read and detects its non php
14:57 sri haha
14:58 stephan48 what?
15:02 crab stephan48: what about the php fans who downvote it because it deceived them?
15:03 stephan48 would show that they know its perl...
15:03 stephan48 and read what its posted
15:03 stephan48 non captured are php haters ofcourse then
15:05 crab oh
15:05 crab so this is a plan to get sri more downvotes? or what?
15:05 sri reaching perl folks was a lot easier when planet.perl was still alive
15:06 crab lcamtuf.coredump.cx/staticanalysis.jpg
15:06 elb0w Do you really want to attract php people to perl?
15:07 sri these days i actually reach the most with my twitter feed
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15:07 sri we are already swamped with awful perl programmers
15:08 sri a few php programmers won't make it worse
15:08 elb0w I started learning ruby, I figure at the rate perl is going unless something major happens within 10 years it will be a lot harder to get work. And at least ruby has gems
15:08 sri in fact, they might be awful programmers, but at least they would love web development
15:08 sri that's something i can work with :)
15:08 elb0w I love perl, it makes me sad everytime I think about the hate it gets
15:09 sri rule 1) absolutely everything gets hate, no point caring
15:09 elb0w yeah but would be nice to see it in startups
15:09 elb0w its rare
15:10 sri many jobs for perl programmers, not much time for startups
15:10 elb0w What worries me is all the developers come out and instantly get the vibe that perl is archaic and they should be using node, ruby, python
15:11 crab if only perl had static analysis, all would be well
15:11 elb0w s/all/new/
15:11 elb0w all the even :P
15:11 sri but ruby is slow and rails doesn't scale!!!1
15:11 crab elb0w: sounds like you spend too much time worrying about fashions
15:11 sri at least that's what the haters keep telling me
15:11 * sri nods at crab
15:12 elb0w I worry about 10 years from now
15:12 crab why? will your perl interpreter stop working?
15:12 elb0w My father was a fortran and cobol programmer, how often is that used now
15:12 sri umm
15:12 sri if you know cobol you earn *a lot*
15:12 elb0w Granted intel
15:12 elb0w Its harder to find work
15:12 elb0w in finance at least
15:13 sri the demand for cobol programmers is ridiculous
15:13 elb0w really?
15:13 elb0w Not on wall st
15:13 crab really? i learned cobol once...
15:14 sri you're making the wrong assumptions though
15:14 elb0w I wouldnt doubt it
15:15 sri the chances of perl being dead in 10 years is small, and even if it died there would be a lot of legacy code to maintain
15:15 elb0w Ive only ever worked in finance though so im sure my view is biased.
15:15 elb0w Well thats what all the finance jobs are primarily for in perl
15:15 elb0w maintaining legacy code
15:15 elb0w But is that what you want to do in 10-15 years?
15:16 sri i don't quite see your point, it's not like programmers only learn one language in their life
15:16 elb0w No I agree
15:16 crab what are you actually worried about? that you won't be able to keep up with whatever thing is widely in use in fifteen years?
15:16 crab it's not like i have "perl programmer (only)" tattooed on my forehead
15:17 elb0w haha, I guess it is unrealistic of me to think this way. I am just worried of putting years upon years into a single language then have to start at 50% of a new language
15:17 crab if something comes along that i get along with better than i get along with perl, hey, i'm all for it.
15:18 sri language is only a very small part of programming
15:18 crab but there's no point worrying about what-ifs and following the latest fashions.
15:19 crab yeah, to me it seems strange to think of it as putting "years upon years into a single language"
15:20 crab i'm putting years upon years into writing code that helps people in some way
15:20 elb0w Well I guess its due to who I work with. We all constantly use different languages but mostly perl. I hang out in the community so I pickup the standards and "proper ways" to do things. Then I see some of their code and it worries me
15:21 elb0w I have only really considered myself a programmer for 2 years
15:21 elb0w They have 10 years xp
15:21 elb0w I attributed their flaws to not emersing themselves in the community of a language
15:22 crab maybe they invested those ten years into learning a language rather than learning how to program
15:22 elb0w Thats a good way to look at it
15:22 elb0w think I need to change jobs
15:22 elb0w maybe its my limited iteraction with other developers in the real world that has led me to these conclusions
15:23 sri 99% of all enterprise programmers are total idiots
15:23 crab elb0w: yeah, you should stop climbing greek rocks with pretty girls and hang out with more hairy perl geeks
15:23 elb0w lol
15:23 elb0w shes a geek
15:24 elb0w I went to a meetup here in the city
15:24 elb0w was pretty interesting, was on Mason
15:25 elb0w Well hopefully my partner gets some interst in our AS3 + Perl (mojo) mobile apps. Hes meeting with vc's and possibly adobe
15:25 elb0w then I can quit
15:25 crab i used to like Mason a lot. part of the reason i like mojo is because ep is much like mason.
15:25 elb0w Yeah I noticed that
15:25 elb0w It changed a lot from the older version from what I saw
15:26 sri i can't get over the block syntax in mason2
15:27 elb0w yeah he took some criticism for some of them
15:27 elb0w There was a guy from Amazon didnt seem too happy
15:28 crab i dunno anything about mason2 really
15:32 crab i remember the first big production web app i did from scratch (in 1999!) used RSE's "ePerl"
15:32 elb0w theres supposed to be a talk on XS modules
15:32 elb0w would like that one
15:32 crab which was even more like mojo's ep
15:32 marcus I thought amazon left Mason for java.
15:33 elb0w apparently they still use mason a decent amount
15:33 elb0w according to this dev
15:33 crab i didn't know they use perl at all
15:34 elb0w http://www.masonhq.com/?AmazonDotCom
15:34 sri rule 2) everybody uses perl for something
15:36 crab sure, i just had never heard about them as using perl
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15:44 tempire any programmer who doesn't immerse himself in his respective community is going to be clueless.
15:44 tempire you just can't gain 20 years of accumulated knowledge on your own
15:45 tempire well, unless you live that 20 years.
15:46 tempire sri: I think your hack a day posts are great.
15:47 tempire I got very few responses for my mojocast blog posts, but then I saw that a lot of twitter comments happened in response.
15:47 tempire when mst mentioned them in a tweet, I realized it was that no one comments, but they still read.
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15:48 tempire it's the result of having a community of mostly introverts, I think.
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15:52 sri it's hard to get feedback for positive post
15:52 sri *+s
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15:53 sri the key is drama i think
15:56 tempire indeed.  it's hard not to feed the trolls.
15:57 tempire The continual advancement has an effect, though.  It's just not immediately apparent.
15:57 crab tempire: what did mst say about them?
15:58 tempire it was a comment mocking perlbuzz for not mentioning them
15:58 crab yes, that was my point. they're useful even if they don't result in immediate feedback.
15:58 tempire point being that everyone reads the posts
15:58 tempire s/mocking/deriding/
16:03 tempire oh dear.  to add/modify mailing lists on lists.perl.org, you have to check out a repository.
16:04 tempire tl;dr
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16:11 elb0w tempire: you dont want a comment section on the mojo casts page?
16:13 elb0w LOL
16:13 elb0w er
16:13 elb0w http://videosift.com/video/Kinect-​Powered-Boob-Jiggle-featuring-Ivy
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16:13 elb0w technology
16:13 purl technology is all internal-only
16:14 elb0w even better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxaCOHT0pmI
16:22 sri oh noes, github is different now
16:24 crab how so?
16:24 sri not sure i like the new look
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16:32 sri tempire: you wrote lists, not collections ;p
16:36 tempire I was thinking in terms of maps and greps
16:36 tempire and collections only hurts marriages
16:36 sri oh :/
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16:49 tempire the developer of the tags page did not consider web scale
16:51 tempire wow
16:51 tempire they really are looking for perl ninjas
16:51 tempire http://jobs.perl.org/job/14950
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17:36 elb0w Cant tell if this gitlibs is funny or not
17:38 metaperl it seems the font is a little smaller and the default color is blue not gray
17:42 elb0w sri crab : https://gist.github.com/1281945
17:43 elb0w this is kind of funny
17:46 crab not really :-)
17:47 tempire http://isios5outyet.com/
17:47 tempire finally
17:56 elb0w here crab sri http://xen.elbowrage.com/gitlibs
17:56 elb0w its random
17:56 elb0w refresh
18:01 tempire what do people use flash for?  I've never used it myself.
18:01 tempire values after a redirect, anything else?
18:01 elb0w Its becoming less relevant
18:02 elb0w We use it to develop our mobile apps
18:02 elb0w compiles to ios and android
18:02 tempire I'm referring to ->flash in mojolicious
18:02 elb0w pretty much write our code once
18:02 elb0w oh
18:02 sri tempire: values after redirect, that's it
18:05 elb0w http://xen.elbowrage.com/gitlibs?s=2
18:05 elb0w little better
18:05 elb0w lol
18:10 crab tempire: i use it to set a "you have logged out" message to be displayed on the main page
18:10 crab tempire: er, yeah, what sri said
18:12 elb0w Wow I probably should of not had this running as morbo when I posted to hn
18:12 elb0w haha
18:12 elb0w why
18:12 elb0w er
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18:38 marcus sri: I agree, not sure about the new github look either
18:38 marcus specially the new project tabs (code/network/...)
18:46 elb0w Dont know why they needed to change githubs look
18:47 elb0w was always my favorite site
18:47 elb0w so clean
19:05 tempire I just signed up to all iCloud services.
19:05 * tempire looks around for that pesky soul
19:08 marty lol
19:09 tempire ooh
19:09 tempire find my iphone/ipad is really neat.
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