Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-10-27

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 rdesfo how would you call a template in "/templates/layouts"?
00:31 marty rdesfo:  % layout 'something';
00:34 marty rdesfo: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo​licious/Guides/Rendering#Layouts
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00:35 GitHub72 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Hhzc0w
00:35 GitHub72 [mojo/master] added experimental stream api to Mojo::IOLoop and fixed finish event timing in Mojo::Server::Daemon - Sebastian Riedel
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00:36 sri damn, finding a test case for this little timing issue was insane
00:37 marty You've been at that all day, sri
00:37 * marty hands sri a cold soda
00:37 sri \o/
00:38 sri *slurp*
00:38 marty you know what they say about async?
00:38 sri it is hard, lets go shopping?
00:39 * marty nods
00:40 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/a90c40​1198fdcf5787dd60ad529d74f66ffbe7e7#L23R221
00:40 sri that's the whole test case, had to add a new low level connection api to make it work
00:42 sri a little crazy, you could theoretically reach the stream api from plugins with a few strategically placed events
00:42 marty That's some powerful stuff.   Kinda scary.  :P
00:44 * marty thinks events are like a Lex Luthor wet dream
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00:55 GitHub106 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Wa63AA
00:55 GitHub106 [mojo/master] better description for stream method - Sebastian Riedel
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01:15 rdesfo marty: do you have to use "@@ layouts/mylayout.html.ep" .  Is there a way to just call the html content in a file that's in the layouts folder?
01:17 rdesfo is there a way to do something like
01:17 rdesfo @@ index.html.ep
01:17 rdesfo % layout '/layout/default';
01:17 rdesfo % title 'Welcome';
01:17 rdesfo Welcome to Mojolicious!
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01:17 sri please do not paste into the channel
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01:29 marty rdesfo:  sorry, I was afk.  Yes, you can use the include helper.  for example.   <%= include 'layouts/test' %>
01:31 marty rdesfo: Here is more information.   http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Gu​ides/Rendering#Including_partial_templates
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01:39 GitHub96 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/JT5zRA
01:39 GitHub96 [mojo/master] added experimental handler method to Mojo::Server - Sebastian Riedel
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01:50 GitHub55 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/k0iYug
01:50 GitHub55 [mojo/master] removed handler method again from Mojo::Server - Sebastian Riedel
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01:55 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 2:12 by SRI - http://t.co/NtqSWMLN" (ms) --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_new​/status/129375574211833857
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02:42 perlrocks Twitter: "Perl-Mojolicious / Routing - http://t.co/9ddhYg7T http://t.co/NcsGSjWk" (ja) --wPerlnews http://twitter.com/wPerlnew​s/status/129387353230934016
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03:08 GitHub196 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/nshwXQ
03:08 GitHub196 [mojo/master] better stream method example - Sebastian Riedel
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03:09 tempire is gmail down for anyone else?
03:09 tempire (web interface)
03:09 * sri uses sparrow
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03:20 sri ooh, pixelmator 2.0 will be released today
03:21 marty Anyone have experience with ocz ssd?  I'm thinking of getting a new ssd and they look pretty good.
03:22 sri i have a vertex 2 in my macbook
03:23 sri but i guess it's a gamble, like with all SSDs
03:23 marty Ya.  I like the speed boost, but sounds like random bad things can sometimes happen.
03:24 marty Have you lost anything or had problems?
03:24 sri you already have a ssd?
03:25 marty No.  Installed an Intel ssd on my girl friends computer and was amazed at the performance increase.  so I think I'll get one, but not sure what kind.
03:25 sri never even heard of random data loss, if SSDs fail they die completely i think
03:25 sri GET ONE!!!1
03:25 sri seriously, it's the most important upgrade i got in years
03:26 marty wow, that good huh.  :P
03:26 sri i could never develop on a machine without ssd
03:26 sri just make sure to get a usb hdd or so for time machine backups
03:26 marty I think I'll be putting in an Amazon order tomorrow.   I think I'll get an ocz vertex III 120 GB
03:27 sri then there's no reason to be afraid
03:27 * marty has a usb drive for backups.  :)
03:27 marty Thanks for the input, sri.
03:28 sri you'll have to hack os x a bit to make TRIM work
03:28 tempire marty: stop typing, buy it now
03:28 sri by default it only accepts apple SSDs
03:28 marty I'm on linux
03:28 marty sorry. :(
03:28 sri but there are perl scripts to hack the kernel modules
03:28 sri oh
03:30 sri those nokia windows phones look actually quite cool
03:30 sri like a big ipod nano
03:30 sri http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/10/i​ts-pretty-nokia-announces-first-real-windows-​phone-lumia-800.ars?comments=1#comments-bar
03:31 sri who would have thought
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03:41 marty \o/
03:42 marty Just ordered my new ocz ssd.   Even paid for next day shipping.  Going to have it on Friday.  :)
03:42 marty Thanks for the push, tempire.  :)
03:46 tempire I really like the windows 7 phone os
03:46 tempire feels fresher than the aging ios
03:49 sjn grep EXPERIMENTAL mojo/Changes # How many of those are still experimental?
03:52 tempire sjn: if you've got something in mind, the way to guarantee its permanence is to say "I use this!"
03:53 tempire positive feedback is sri's spinach
03:54 sjn ook
03:55 sjn would be nice if some of that spinach goodness somehow ended up in the Changes file though :)
03:56 sjn not important, just nice. :)
03:56 sri what tempire said :)
03:59 marty You'll have to get in line behind the mongodb flogging squad, sjn.  :)
04:07 sjn aw
04:07 sjn oh well.
04:14 sri so far i only got very little feedback for experimental features
04:16 tempire you should have an option in Test::Mojo that creates a report for all features used during the test run.
04:16 sri even for things that seem heavily used like respond_to, which is a little surprising
04:16 tempire "Would you like to automatically upload this report to make Mojolicious better?"
04:17 * marty LOVES respond_to
04:18 sri there are still open design decisions, like the default 204 response, or not supporting multiple mime types in the Accept header
04:20 sri especially multi mime types is so tricky it could have to stay experimental for years
04:39 plu :)
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08:00 perlrocks Twitter: "The guy who developed it does nothing else in his life. http://t.co/V2vfBAlc # perl" (fr) --Kharec http://twitter.com/Kharec/​status/129467573258559488
08:02 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 2.0: Modern Perl for the Web: After a year of rapid development, has been published again l. .. http://t.co/FNP9tj1s" (es) --linuxparty http://twitter.com/linuxpart​y/status/129468104790118400
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08:45 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 2.0: Modern Perl for the Web: After a year of rapid development, has been published again l. .. http://t.co/uBzaVxyO" (es) --alex1eidansoft http://twitter.com/alex1eidans​oft/status/129478825577943040
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09:13 perlrocks Twitter: "★ ★ ★ ★ # news Mojolicious 2.0: Modern Perl for the Web (Linux Party) http://t.co/Pm55xuDp # cuatroestrellas" (es) --cienciaespanol http://twitter.com/cienciaespa​nol/status/129485796288897024
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11:37 marcus sri: please unexperiment respond_to, I use it :)
11:38 marcus I honestly don't care much about the accept header, I just like it because it lets me easily reuse controller actions for other output types
11:39 marcus mostly I use it to output json
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12:46 perlrocks Twitter: "Always forgetting about plural filename conventions in CakePHP and Mojolicious...arh!" --jujav4ik http://twitter.com/jujav4ik​/status/129539457127944192
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13:22 MojoGuest71 From: http://extjstutorial.org/extjs/moj​o-websocket-demo-extjs-irc-client/ (5 hits)
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13:25 MojoGuest712 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (52 hits)
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13:31 MojoGuest405 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (53 hits)
13:31 MojoGuest405 HI THERE
13:31 purl que tal, MojoGuest405.
13:32 MojoGuest405 /whois elb0w
13:32 elb0w_ har
13:32 elb0w_ Why FindBin and not Dir::Self ?
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13:54 sri marcus: yea, you might not care, but if i make a decision about it we are trapped
13:54 * marcus traps sri in a bird cage.
13:55 * sri does not fit into a bird cage
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13:56 MojoGuest873 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (54 hits)
13:56 MojoGuest873 hello world
13:56 MojoGuest873 nice chat client
13:56 judofyr hello MojoGuest873
13:57 marcus sri: BIG BIRD
13:58 MojoGuest873 /list
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13:59 MojoGuest598 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (55 hits)
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14:13 sri yay, pixelmator 2.0
14:14 judofyr is it a free upgrade?
14:14 sri yes
14:15 judofyr "It is a free upgrade for everyone who already purchased any version of Pixelmator via the Mac App Store."
14:15 judofyr I don't have it in Mac App Store :/
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14:28 sri Akron: you'll like the 1.12 release
14:28 Akron 2.12!
14:28 sri umm, right :)
14:29 Akron I just saw your commit - great! Less work for me! :) will test now - how bad is the impact for overall performance now?
14:29 sri none
14:29 Akron Thank you very much!
14:29 Akron Wow - great.
14:29 sri i made it an exception
14:29 judofyr sri: what patch are we talking about?
14:30 sri the big one from yesterday
14:30 sri it added a new low level stream api to Mojo::IOLoop and fixed timing of the finish event
14:30 Akron judofyr: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/a90c40​1198fdcf5787dd60ad529d74f66ffbe7e7#L23R221
14:30 sri you can now be sure that on_finish fires after all data has been written
14:30 sri so it's useful again for cleanup tasks
14:31 sri (written = passed to the kernel send buffer)
14:32 sri the whole stream api was added to make this testable ;p
14:32 Akron :)
14:32 sri but it also helped reducing Mojo::IOLoop code by about 40+ lines or so
14:33 * sri loves doing more with less code, so satisfying
14:35 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/a90c40​1198fdcf5787dd60ad529d74f66ffbe7e7#L23R221
14:35 sri the test
14:35 purl the test is, like, bogus
14:35 sri it looks rather trivial, but you can now access the lowest io layer from everywhere
14:35 Akron Yeah! It's working! sri++
14:36 Akron (I will never touch the stream ...)
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14:39 sri hmm, i wonder if Mojo::IOWatcher is still the right name
14:41 sri can't really think of a better one though :/
14:42 sri Mojo::Watcher maybe
14:44 sri then again, I/O will always be the main focus
14:44 sri or is it too confusing that a module named IOWatcher contains the timer implementation too?
14:45 Akron That's way too internal for me.
14:45 sri it's just about naming :)
14:46 judofyr "just"?
14:46 purl i heard "just" was probably the bane of all software development
14:46 judofyr naming is the hardest thing
14:46 sri !
14:47 judofyr I mean, if you don't think proper around naming, you'll end up with silly names such as … Mojolicious
14:47 * judofyr ducks
14:47 * sri sets judofyr on fire
14:47 sri i'd really like to rename Mojo::IOWatcher and Mojo::IOLoop::Trigger somehow though
14:48 sri not even sure there are better names to describe them
14:48 sri hmm
14:48 judofyr Watcherlicious
14:48 * sri goes to get cookies
14:48 judofyr Triggerlicious
14:48 judofyr see, it's easy!
14:48 sri judolicious
14:48 judofyr srilicious
14:48 Akron Mojo::Moloch.
14:51 Akron Oh - how do I find out the port of the daemon (?) in Test::Mojo?
14:52 Mikey i think it'd be better to go Mojo::IO .. then Watcher and LoopTrigger
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15:00 * marty yawns
15:03 judofyr sri: feature request: simple way to append a hashref to stash
15:03 judofyr so I don't have to write ->stash({%$override, %{$self->stash}})
15:04 judofyr but rather ->stash([%$override]);
15:04 judofyr s/override/append/
15:11 marty I'll throw out some naming ideas just for fun.  For Mojo::IOWatcher --- Mojo::Monitor  Mojo::Listener  Mojo::Auditor
15:12 judofyr Mojo::MartyNamedMe
15:13 marty \o/
15:15 marty I would love to have a Mojo::Spark  -- it just sounds fun
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15:31 sri :)
15:32 sri judofyr: make a helper
15:32 sri s/append/merge/
15:32 judofyr sri: already done that :) just wondering, since ->query have such merge/override functionality
15:34 sri for query that kind of manipulation is more common though
15:34 Akron sri: How can I find the generated port in Mojo::Test?
15:34 sri Akron: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Test/Mojo#test_server
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15:35 Akron Thank you!
15:48 sri Mikey: you mean put everything under the Mojo::IO namespace?
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15:49 sri renaming Mojo::IOLoop would be a PITA
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16:03 sri hmm
16:03 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo​licious/Plugin/CallbackCondition
16:03 glickbot n/quit
16:03 glickbot lol
16:03 sri this is experimental i've not seen anyone use it yet
16:06 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo/Collection # i suppose nobody could live without this anymore
16:11 sri think i'll start by removing the before_render hook
16:13 Akron Mojo::Collection is great - especially for testing!
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16:32 GitHub136 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/udZPuQ
16:32 GitHub136 [mojo/master] removed before_render hook and Mojolicious::Plugin::CallbackCondition - Sebastian Riedel
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16:32 sri and that's what happens when nobody gives feedback ;)
16:33 * marty pouts
16:34 sri a lot of the lower level experimental stuff is actually more internal
16:35 sri high level there are only a few things, like Mojo::Collection and respond_to
16:36 sri and for both i'm pretty sure i want them to stay, just not in what form
16:36 sri anyone using http://mojolicio.us/perldo​c/Mojo/UserAgent#no_proxy ?
16:37 marty Mojolicous development has been moving really quick lately.  Hard to tell what is going to be really useful until things settle a bit.
16:37 marty ie:  not used != not useful
16:37 sri marty: not sure that's the problem, there are very little really visible experimental features
16:38 marty true
16:38 sri respond_to being the exception
16:38 sri who would really think about giving feedback for http://mojolicio.us/perldo​c/Mojo/UserAgent#no_proxy ? :)
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16:44 perlrocks Twitter: "2.0.12 Mojolicious http://t.co/BFxGtIz8" (sw) --campuscodi http://twitter.com/campuscod​i/status/129599304582168576
16:45 perlrocks Twitter: "www/p5-Mojolicious - 2.12: - Update to 2.12  Changes:        http://t.co/rlN3b6GA PR:... http://t.co/iJc4LGrY" --freshports_org http://twitter.com/freshports_​org/status/129599673030811648
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16:52 perlrocks Twitter: "Starting to remove some unused experimental features from #mojolicious. http://t.co/OhKQJiZm #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/129601355743625218
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17:16 Mikey i think im going to port my web app, praux.com, to mojo .. the public apis are stable despite rapid dev?
17:17 janus the last twitter message almost answers that, Mikey
17:17 janus stick with was is not marked as experimental, then you should be safe
17:17 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Guid​es/FAQ#What_about_backwards_compatibility3F
17:18 Mikey gracias
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17:23 tempire Mikey: in order words, yes, it's stable
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17:31 janus sri: re: no_proxy - did the trick for me already, should retry consciously again though
17:34 tempire Mikey: even if something is experimental, if you use it, and mention that you use it, you're fine.
17:35 Mikey ok then i'll be sure to let you guys know if i end up using something
17:35 sri Mikey++
17:36 Mikey i'm all for sick new features ;).. i was just going to plackify my app but seeing that you guys have a server, css3 selectors server side, and psgi support why the hell not use mojo.. great work so far :)
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17:45 tempire TO THE MOJOLICIOUS!
17:59 marcus "What about the children?! Won't somebody please think of the children??!?!
17:59 marcus What will they do without experimental features?
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18:02 Mikey i think everyone's born with an experimental feature or two of their own
18:07 sri maybe humanity is an experimental feature
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18:20 marcus humanity is probably a simulation
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18:31 tempire I use it!
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18:43 GitHub44 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/l9yHxQ
18:43 GitHub44 [mojo/master] removed experimental status from many classes, methods, attributes and functions - Sebastian Riedel
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18:44 sri ok, about everything else i'm still unsure
18:44 sri mostly not *if* it should exist, but in what form
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18:47 sri i'm tempted to make Mojo::Collection stable, since i'm rather happy with it
18:47 sri but it's still quite new
18:51 mercutioviz what js libs (if any) do you guys like to use for things like widgets and controls?
18:51 mercutioviz dojo has tons of widgets but jquery seems to have all the momentum
18:51 sri jquery
18:54 diegok mercutioviz: jquery++
18:54 mercutioviz sounds good
18:54 diegok sri: I'm using collection, mostly the ->each() thingy :)
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19:02 mercutioviz i'm experimenting with log output from a freeswitch server. i'm feeding the web page via websockets (works great) and I'd like to implement a scrollback buffer. any thoughts on what i could use for that? jquery widget, perhaps?
19:02 mercutioviz like a glorified text box, basically
19:04 diegok mercutioviz: I would mantain an array of dom objects (li's probably). Creating new ones en every new log and deleting old ones when arrays grows after X.
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19:05 diegok mercutioviz: really easy with jquery.
19:05 mercutioviz cool
19:05 mercutioviz i found a copy of the jquery cookbook - i'll do some digging
19:06 diegok mercutioviz: look at the dom manipulation docs on the jquery website.
19:06 mercutioviz k
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19:08 GitHub157 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mh0EOw
19:08 GitHub157 [mojo/master] better event emitter tests - Sebastian Riedel
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19:16 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 2:13 by SRI - http://t.co/qcU9jJgn" (ms) --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_new​/status/129637489970397184
19:17 perlrocks Twitter: "Released #mojolicious 2.13 with many features going from experimental to stable, enjoy. :) http://t.co/RPHwUgZF #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/129637762684043265
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19:45 hitz I am getting some odd behavior with my app.
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19:50 hitz it post_form_ok seems to fail (returning nothing) sometimes... I am having trouble tracking this
19:51 hitz I can't seem to get Mojo::Test to log anything
19:52 hitz also I get odd spikes in wallclock:CPU ratio.   But that could be totally unrelaed
19:57 hitz the spikes appear to be unrelated to MOJO - probably just some swapping effect of several large sqlite databases
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20:09 GitHub6 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/nzstbQ
20:09 GitHub6 [mojo/master] added experimental --verbose flag to test command - Sebastian Riedel
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20:20 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 2.0: Modern Perl For The Web  http://t.co/aPrJePCq  http://t.co/uy8NCeBG" --NorthStateTv http://twitter.com/NorthState​Tv/status/129653813387870208
20:24 marcus so now you're supposed to pay for google maps as well
20:25 marcus google are getting good at bait and switch..
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20:29 sri hmm
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20:29 sri i completely forgot about this https://gist.github.com/1320777
20:31 sri maybe *a little* crazy :)
20:35 marcus woot
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20:38 MojoGuest6 khgj
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20:43 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-CSRFProtect 0.05 by KOORCHIK - http://t.co/D0sxLtXz" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_new​/status/129659411546382336
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20:49 chansen marcus: are you hitting the maps API limit?
20:49 sri marcus: damn, $4 for 1000 requests
20:50 marcus chansen: no, it's not a problem for me atm.
20:51 marcus but I'd be careful to rely on google maps. $4 CPM is more than most ads will give you
20:52 marcus I'm actually worried about the new client project I'm building now, if they get successful they might hit the api limits.
20:52 sri no big surprise though, considering how much google maps has been used in mobile apps
20:52 chansen marcus: ic
20:53 marcus but it's only 25k page views?
20:53 marcus that's not a lot
20:54 sri would be funny if they made a free alternative with local ads
20:55 sri mcdonalds icons on the map or so
20:55 chansen marcus: true, 25K views could easily be consumed with a modest IOS/Web app
20:59 chansen sri: does version numbers in Mojo have a significance?
21:00 sri chansen: yes, it tells you which version is newer
21:00 chansen Hehe, LOL
21:00 chansen .. ok
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21:10 tempire I wish apple would do something about the preview icon
21:10 tempire I don't trust that kid to render my images/pdfs
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21:13 sri heh
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22:31 MojoGuest207 From: http://www.google.ru/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;​q=extjs%20websockets&amp;source=web&amp;cd=5​&amp;ved=0CEQQFjAE&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.​xantus.org%2F&amp;ei=A9qpTt2OOeii4gSn6b0K&am​p;usg=AFQjCNGw6nZv0wO42uzUnHhWcD0vcKNULg&amp​;sig2=yE7j4DDC16M-eF5USG8PGw&amp;cad=rjt (1 hits)
22:32 MojoGuest207 mbn
22:33 MojoGuest207 #mojo
22:43 metaperl hello, I'm dumping the output of $self->session->{user} and then using it in a template right here - https://github.com/metaperl/clear​trader/blob/master/index.cgi#L285  .. the dump of $self->session->{user} is this - http://pastie.org/2770321 but the template dies on this line Your default payout Address is <%= $address %>
22:43 metaperl and here is the whole template - https://github.com/metaperl/cleartrad​er/blob/master/templates/root.html.ep
22:44 metaperl but address is in the hashref $self->session->{user} so I dont see why
22:50 perlrocks Twitter: "Working on a Mojolicious app backed by Redis with some node.js thrown in for real-time updates. Complicated setup, but slick results." --doowttam http://twitter.com/doowttam​/status/129691463876493312
22:52 metaperl $self->stash(%{$self->session->{user}}); # this isnt working either
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23:05 tempire metaperl: why are you rendering twice?
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23:06 metaperl twice?
23:06 purl twice is a rogue pfy or happenstance
23:06 tempire in the any '/root' action, you're calling $self->render twice.
23:07 metaperl OH!
23:07 metaperl :)
23:08 metaperl i owe you some solidcoins for that
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23:13 * tempire accepts cookies
23:13 tempire purl: cookies are http://www.etsy.com/shop/sweetjuliessweets
23:13 purl ...but cookies is straight forward....
23:13 purl ...but cookies are straight forward....
23:18 sri you confused purl
23:22 sri purl: tempire cookies are at http://www.etsy.com/shop/sweetjuliessweets (just order with a random address and say it's for Glen)
23:22 purl OK, sri.
23:24 sri hmm
23:24 sri wonder if we should disable EV support by default
23:24 sri and just enable it if EV is already loaded
23:28 hitz three times?
23:28 purl i think three times is enemy action.
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