Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-11-01

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Time Nick Message
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00:21 GitHub34 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/08Thjw
00:21 GitHub34 [mojo/master] changed semantics of almost all functions in Mojo::Util - Sebastian Riedel
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00:21 sri it's done
00:25 sri stays experimental though
00:25 sri so do not use it
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00:27 GitHub147 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Vce21g
00:27 GitHub147 [mojo/master] fixed a few descriptions - Sebastian Riedel
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00:35 GitHub18 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/PeZuPA
00:35 GitHub18 [mojo/master] shorter constant names - Sebastian Riedel
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00:40 Akron sri: You opened Pandora's box. Mojo::Util was one of the most obvious "Here be dragons" modules in Mojolicious with its in-place changes and now someone will use it. And with someone I mean me. ;)
00:40 sri Akron: i was thinking the exact same thing :D
00:41 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 2.20 by SRI - http://t.co/wGxq1H6i" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_new​/status/131168924422258688
00:41 Akron In fact, I never looked into the whole IOLoop stuff, because I like the idea that there are areas you should not pass. Makes your life a lot easier.
00:42 sri i think part of the problem is that i even document modules that are supposed to be internal :/
00:44 Akron Yes, it's sometimes hard to decide which part of Mojolicious is meant to deal with.
00:46 Akron I would like to have a Plugin Guide that lists all reasonable possibilities to use things in Mojolicious (Events, Helpers, change types etc.) and leaves out everything you should not use in a Plugin.
00:47 Akron Yeah - Wiki, I know. Oh - you didn't even say it.
00:47 Akron ;)
00:48 sri WIKI!
00:52 Akron I will start with a recipe, how to use Mojo::Util in a plugin ...
00:57 xaka i never read docs, i always learn mojo from bottom to top :) code is the best doc )
00:58 xaka so "dont document this thing" won't help either, haha ]:->
00:59 xaka sri: i think u could write "return $$self = Mojo::Util::camelize $$self;"? ;)
01:00 xaka 218 additions VS 282 deletions - "return" won )
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01:07 GitHub33 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/e2FlXg
01:07 GitHub33 [mojo/master] improved Mojo::ByteStream to generate most Mojo::Util based methods automatically - Sebastian Riedel
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01:07 sri that saves even more lines
01:09 xaka u could save one more line ;)
01:09 sri __PACKAGE__?
01:09 purl hmmm... __PACKAGE__ is current package or documented in perlmod
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01:12 GitHub145 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/spMxoA
01:12 GitHub145 [mojo/master] improved code generation slightly - Sebastian Riedel
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01:13 sri it's funny, i've added so many features during the last few months, but SLOC have actually been shrinking :)
01:14 sri by something like 500 lines
01:16 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojo:: I use to feel even more comfortable because the Base, the entire installation Mojolicious to do this for ants or none?" (ja) --Niratama http://twitter.com/Niratama​/status/131177714756493312
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01:42 perlrocks Twitter: "http://t.co/7XW65D33 Mojolicious 2.0: Modern Perl For the Web" --rachadou http://twitter.com/rachadou​/status/131184258743144448
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03:56 MojoGuest861 From: http://www.google.ru/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=we​bsockets%20html5%20mojo&source=web&cd=1&​amp;ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.xantu​s.org%2F&ei=qG2vTumzH4iC4gSBiNzNAQ&usg=A​FQjCNGw6nZv0wO42uzUnHhWcD0vcKNULg&cad=rja (1 hits)
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06:15 perlrocks Twitter: "You, you'll need to check it. RT @ yusukebe: "Mojolicious 2.0 released: Perl real-time web framework - ..." http://t.co/lMoyuU90" (ja) --hoyo1111 http://twitter.com/hoyo1111​/status/131253033664380929
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07:14 perlrocks Twitter: "#mojolicious hack of the day: #websockets. http://t.co/CrHhPR5T #perl #html5" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/131267789884370945
07:17 perlrocks Twitter: "I think forwarding framework log messages to a browsers window is actually a great real-time web "hello world". :) #perl #mojolicious" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/131268593093578752
07:19 perlrocks Twitter: "I think forwarding framework log messages to a browser window is actually a great real-time web "hello world". :) #perl #mojolicious" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/131269020858064896
07:19 sri damn typos -.-
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08:10 yko sri: you already ban people if they try to talk about leaks in mojolicious? :)
08:10 sri thou shalt not talk about leaks!
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08:12 bzero Leaks in mojolicious? Unbelievable!
08:12 sri PERL CANNOT LEAK!1
08:13 sri UNPOSSIBLE
08:13 purl me fail english? that's unpossible!
08:13 bzero sri: Good idea about log messages to a browser window. In a frame? Integration with Firebug?
08:14 bzero yko: sri bans who tells that sri does not want to play in a team. :)
08:14 yko huh. than i should check my laptop. it should leak somehow :D
08:15 * sri looks at ban list, notices the spider webs, shrugs, and goes to get breakfast
08:16 bzero Does anybody knows the backup provider (with FTP support and multiply FTP accounts support too)?
08:33 perlrocks Twitter: "@kraih is there any true way to easy work with SOAP in Mojolicious (soap dispatcher)?" --aosiniao http://twitter.com/aosiniao​/status/131287706348175360
08:42 DaTa https://mobile.twitter.com/dba​hulk/status/131133944501514240 :)
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08:58 MojoGuest406 From: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&a​mp;q=web%20socket%20irc%20client&source=​web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%​3A%2F%2Fdev.xantus.org%2F&ei=rLSvTsmnJNO​38QOLg92pAQ&usg=AFQjCNGw6nZv0wO42uzUnHhW​cD0vcKNULg&sig2=pyW0z4PKQ5at2YlGFviG5w (1 hits)
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08:59 MojoGuest914 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (67 hits)
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09:21 aptituz hmm. I have a controller like /:controller/:action/:id and would like to generate an URL for it in a template, with a given id, but it keeps generating an id-less uri (like /:controller/ without anything else), any idea what I'm doing wrong? command in template is: url_for(id => 2)
09:26 sri wonder if use Mojo::Base should also import weaken by default
09:26 sri yko: thoughts?
09:26 purl Mmm... donuts.
09:27 * sri agrees with purl
09:27 * purl agrees with sri
09:27 crab i upgraded to the latest mojo and now all my log messages are doubled
09:27 yko sri: so many circular references? :)
09:27 sri yko: well, i play with events a lot ;)
09:28 sri and i expect other to do so too in the future
09:29 sri just search for weaken in the mojolicious code ;p
09:29 crab i suspect this has something to do with the fact that i do $app->log(MyApp::Log->new($app->log)) in startup
09:29 crab the reason i do that is so that i can define MyApp::Log::format to format the log messages the way i want
09:29 yko I don't mind that at all. actually if you build something over Mojo::Base you already loaded Mojolicious which requires Scalar::Utils. and you will need 'weaken'
09:30 yko I don't think another 100 records for *namespace::weaken will eat too much ram
09:30 sri crab: you need to unsubscribe one of the message events
09:30 crab but i suppose now the new Mojo::Log registers an on(message => ...) which remains subscribed, so that...
09:30 crab right.
09:31 sri possibly $log->unsubscribe('message') before building the second one
09:31 crab how do i do that? $app->log->unsubscribe('message') before the line above?
09:31 crab fine
09:31 aptituz hm, it seems using 'controlleractionid' as the name instead of none or current seems to do the trick.
09:31 yko and look I don't need to change Base::XS  for that: in 'infect' mode it won't modify Mojo::Base::import
09:32 sri yko: ah, that's nice
09:32 yko sri: but Mojo::DOM leaks :)
09:32 * yko hides
09:33 * sri is not surprised
09:33 crab now it works.
09:35 sri i don't quite get why weaken is not a core feature anyway
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09:38 sri hmm, events are currently stored in $self->{events}
09:38 sri wonder if it should be $self->{on} or so, to match a method name
09:40 judofyr sri: is there an easy way to have to base class which you "use BaseClass qw(db)", and then in a method in BaseClass figure out if $class was called with qw(db)?
09:40 judofyr e.g. if you qw(db) I want to do some stuff
09:40 judofyr I tried some funky @{"${caller}::flags"} = @flags
09:41 judofyr but I realize I have no idea how that really works
09:41 sri yko: yea, difference in memory usage is not measurable, even for a full lite app loading almost every class
09:41 marcus woot, eventsource browser support is pretty good http://caniuse.com/#search=eventsource
09:42 sri judofyr: no
09:42 judofyr sri: no? :(
09:42 sri it's not easy
09:43 sri (if i understand you right)
09:44 sri in the end perl is so dynamic you can do pretty much everythink in some way or another if you bend it enough
09:45 marcus sounds like a bad plan tho, judofyr
09:45 marcus too much magic
09:45 purl too much magic is, like, what i thought he meant
09:45 sri need more unicorn!
09:46 marcus purl: no, too much magic is <reply>Too much magic could wrap time and space around itself, and that wasn't good news for the kind of person who had grown used to things like effects following things like causes.
09:46 purl marcus: i don't know
09:46 marcus purl: no, too much magic is <reply> Too much magic could wrap time and space around itself, and that wasn't good news for the kind of person who had grown used to things like effects following things like causes.
09:46 purl bugger all, i dunno, marcus
09:46 marcus purl: forget too much magic
09:46 purl marcus: I forgot too much magic
09:46 marcus purl:  too much magic is <reply> Too much magic could wrap time and space around itself, and that wasn't good news for the kind of person who had grown used to things like effects following things like causes.
09:46 purl i haven't a clue, marcus
09:46 sri it's too long
09:46 marcus GRRR
09:46 marcus purl:  too much magic is <reply> Too much magic could wrap time and space around itself.
09:46 purl OK, marcus.
09:46 judofyr marcus: the idea was that if you "use TestCase qw(db)" it would make sure to clear the database before the tests run.
09:50 judofyr while "use TestCase" would just set up an Test::Mojo, use strict etc…
09:52 sri hmm, not sure about weaken yet, gonna think about it some more
09:53 sri judofyr: sub import { $ENV{I_AM_TESTING} = 1 }?
09:53 judofyr sri: weaken?
09:53 purl weaken is wrong, see weak_ref or from Scalar::Util, not a Moose feature
09:53 judofyr hehe
09:53 judofyr purl: Perl's GC is wrong… :P
09:53 purl ...but perl's gc is smarter than I am...
09:54 judofyr barely
09:54 sri making use Mojo::Base import weaken automatically
09:55 sri use Scalar::Util 'weaken' over and over bugs me a little atm, but not sure if it would cross a line
09:55 judofyr ah
09:56 sri if we do weaken why not blessed or isweak… and so on
09:58 judofyr why not just fix that damn GC?
09:58 marcus blessed isweak
09:58 marcus apparently it's NP-Hard
09:58 marcus :p
10:00 marcus amusing, jwz was bitching about perl gc is 1998 http://www.jwz.org/doc/gc.html
10:00 marcus in
10:00 sri haha
10:13 judofyr marcus: I like how he never actually mentions what he thinks is a good GC…
10:14 judofyr I mean, it's just " all of the commercial Lisp and Smalltalk systems had high quality GC"
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10:26 sri i would be happy with cycle detection in perl
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10:53 marcus THERE'S A BICYCLE IN YOUR PERL!
10:53 marcus happy now?
10:58 judofyr sri: how would I match all the <p>'s in front of #toc in Mojo::DOM? http://d.pr/Lh6F
11:09 judofyr sri: any reason why "$p ~ #toc" only returns the first element?
11:17 sri p:nth-of-type(-n+4)?
11:18 sri body >
11:20 sri matching non immediate siblings is a bit tedious, i would just select a bit more broad and filter with perl
11:26 batman hello
11:26 purl hola, batman.
11:27 batman i don't get how Mojolicious can call the methods in my controller classes... i'm looking at Mojolicious::handler and i'm only seeing $self->controller_class->new
11:27 batman anyone care to enlighten me?
11:28 sri judofyr: ->find('body > p')->grep(sub { state $i++ < 5 }) or so ;)
11:28 batman what i want to accomplish is to create an instance of MyApp::RootController inside my application, before the dispatcher has been called
11:29 sri no wait
11:29 sri judofyr: we have ->slice(0 .. 3) now
11:29 sri \o/
11:36 judofyr sri: the number of <p>s are not static
11:36 judofyr sri: it would be useful with a ->next btw
11:37 perlrocks Twitter: "# Web Status Checker made a simple bookmark Perl "mojo-checkbot" - MOONGIFT - http://t.co/fKaMTqkE" (ja) --xtetsuji_ http://twitter.com/xtetsuji​_/status/131333970964135938
11:46 marcus sri: seem like find('$p ~ #toc') only returns one element?
11:46 sri marcus: of course
11:47 judofyr sri: why is that "of course"?
11:52 sri wait a minute
11:52 sri i think ~ is actually broken
11:53 judofyr yay!
11:55 * judofyr wonders how the CoffeeScript for Perl would look like…
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12:07 judofyr sri: is "$foo eq $bar" a fast way to check if two Mojo::DOM objects are the same?
12:08 judofyr == didn't work…
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12:09 MojoGuest239 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (68 hits)
12:11 sri wait a minute
12:12 sri i'm too sleep deprived and ~ is not broken...
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12:13 marcus ~~~~/)----\o/----
12:13 marcus mathematica is fucking cool!
12:14 marcus http://nordaaker.com/docs/skitch​/Untitled-2-20111101-131408.jpg
12:23 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 2.0: Modern Perl For the Web http://t.co/nPen1D4y" --nickdavbest http://twitter.com/nickdavbe​st/status/131345636728651776
12:25 sri judofyr: it's actually an implementation detail of the subject selector ($)
12:26 judofyr sri: sounds like a bug to me…
12:26 sri give me proof
12:26 judofyr although, who knows exactly how the subject selector should work?
12:26 judofyr it's like, from the draft of CSS4
12:26 sri exactlt
12:26 sri *exactly
12:27 marcus eggsactly
12:29 sri if they allowed multiple results it would be *a lot* slower
12:29 marcus http://dev.w3.org/csswg/selectors4/#time-pseudos
12:30 sri considering how important performance was when they designed them, i kinda doubt it's going to be like you expect
12:31 judofyr sri: the draft that marcus linked uses ? as subject operator
12:32 sri looks like it changed again
12:34 judofyr sri: okay. I don't think the $-behaviour is bug anymore. I'm just confused about subject operator vs. jQuery's :has()
12:35 judofyr sri: why would I get encoding errors after Mojo::UserAgent::get? doesn't it detect the encoding from the HTTP header?
12:38 judofyr sri: actually, I get encoding errors after ->res->dom
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12:49 GitHub102 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/yVpaRQ
12:49 GitHub102 [mojo/master] updated CSS4 selectors in Mojo::DOM::CSS with changes from the latest editor's draft - Sebastian Riedel
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12:50 sri i really don't see it working any other way
12:51 sri after a match you would have to jump back and try every single sibling, at every level
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14:28 crab marcus: big deal, gnuplot can do that too ;-)
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14:28 kimoto i maybe find hypnotoad bug.
14:30 kimoto please see http://pastie.org/2793643
14:30 marcus crab: sure, but not as easily.
14:31 kimoto hypnotoad server return 324 (ERR_EMPTY_RESPONSE) error if http request time is over 30 second.
14:37 sri kimoto: if a worker looks dead it gets killed
14:37 sri just to be sure
14:41 kimoto but is default timeout 30 second? is this very short? apache timeout is 300 sencod by default.
14:41 sri if you're blocking that long with that configuration you're screwed no matter what though
14:41 sri no, i think the defaults are perfect for evented apps
14:41 purl okay, sri.
14:42 marcus crab: Can gnuplot do http://nordaaker.com/docs/skitch​/Untitled-1-20111101-154159.jpg as well?
14:42 sri if you want to block, then you should configure hypnotoad to work like apache and accept the consequences
14:44 crab marcus: i don't think so
14:44 kimoto sri: is {graceful_timeout => 300} ok?
14:45 crab (btw, plotting the earlier thing was just splot sin(x+y^2), and i know there's a way to specify limits like you've done, but i can't remember it)
14:45 crab anyway, i'm not seriously arguing that gnuplot is an alternative to mathematica
14:45 sri kimoto: depends what your intentions are, looks rather useless to me
14:45 marcus crab: the second one is solving a linear regression :)
14:45 crab (and how come you're playing with mathematica?)
14:46 marcus crab: because I suck at math, and need to do homework for ai-class.com
14:46 marcus which turns out to involve a lot of math.
14:46 crab i remember a time when i read about mathematica and maple and such in computer magazines, and desperately wished i could try them, back when i did more maths stuff. but i never did use any of them.
14:46 kimoto sri: i want to receive long time request over 30 second on hypnotoad.
14:51 kimoto what is best way?
14:51 purl i think best way is to do everything with stored procedures so that you can't easily move to different databases and are stuck with sybase forever
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15:35 crab sigh. my app still core dumps every once in a while.
15:38 perlrocks Twitter: "I like the cut of 5.8 Mojolicious, wondering Did I try to do what seems fun to change the language better. The sound guy so I will not in the main Mojolicious HTTP." (ja) --purasiibo http://twitter.com/purasiib​o/status/131394608176439298
15:48 marcus phear
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16:04 MojoGuest823 From: http://www.google.ru/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;​q=websocket%20extjs&amp;source=web&amp;cd=7&​amp;ved=0CF4QFjAG&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.x​antus.org%2F&amp;ei=dxewTpQcgp75BpqZjbkC&amp​;usg=AFQjCNGw6nZv0wO42uzUnHhWcD0vcKNULg&amp;​sig2=4CO6zsHD4ShX2a7r8gIP-w&amp;cad=rjt (1 hits)
16:05 perlrocks Twitter: "Web Status Checker made a simple Perl "mojo-checkbot" http://t.co/DNcuJnrJ" (ja) --SpikeCyberHacks http://twitter.com/SpikeCyberH​acks/status/131401402693074944
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16:12 judofyr sri: how do I get a Mojo::Home?
16:12 judofyr for my app?
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16:13 marcus app->home
16:40 tempire apply for a mortgage
16:42 tempire marcus: do you use use ::Plugin::Authentication?
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16:52 GitHub155 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/_EH-9A
16:52 GitHub155 [mojo/master] fixed route pattern bug - Sebastian Riedel
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16:55 sri format handling code needs to be untangled a bit :S
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17:26 perlrocks Twitter: ""Updating the Duct Tape for HTML5: Websockets in Perl (Mojolicious)" http://t.co/eKkV1z2E #perl #mojolicious #websockets" --DZone http://twitter.com/DZone/status/131421936420012033
17:27 perlrocks Twitter: ""Updating the Duct Tape for HTML5: Websockets in Perl (Mojolicious)" http://t.co/LvhiHkhJ #perl #mojolicious #websockets" --dzoneposts http://twitter.com/dzonepost​s/status/131422016610910209
17:27 tempire hey!
17:27 tempire tomorrow is my birthday
17:27 tempire I accept large and expensive presents
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17:30 perlrocks Twitter: "Updating the Duct Tape for HTML5: Websockets in Perl (Mojolicious) http://t.co/LqH7eZ0x" --CamillArtland http://twitter.com/CamillArtl​and/status/131422980415832064
17:31 burk I just upgraded to Mojolicious 2.14, and my app stopped working, (upgraded from 1.98 or something): http://dpaste.com/645543/ is this a known problem?
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17:36 perlrocks Twitter: "Updating the Duct Tape for HTML5: Websockets in Perl (Mojolicious): Sebastian Ridel integrates Websockets in Per... http://t.co/qwo7bOA7" --ibmkhd http://twitter.com/ibmkhd/​status/131424277772775424
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19:46 marcus tempire: yes
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22:12 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-MethodOverride 0.001 by GRAF - http://t.co/6qzkh2gZ" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_new​/status/131493799603085313
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23:10 ruz http://pastie.org/2796057 # layout/extends suck
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23:22 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious 2.0: Modern Perl For the Web" --ColdfusXYS http://twitter.com/ColdfusXY​S/status/131511365574721536
23:23 metaperl within a mojolicious action, is a singleton instance of Mojo::JSON available?
23:33 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojoliciousが日刊Mojolicious過ぎて辛​い。しかもバグ修正だけじゃなくて仕様変更まで入ってるのが。" --Niratama http://twitter.com/Niratama​/status/131514254120595456
23:34 sri burk: profile is a built in helper we use to generate the RequestTimer requests per second information
23:35 sri since 2.x
23:39 sri ruz: just because you don't get it does't mean it sucks
23:42 sri think the profile helper will go again
23:42 sri so far all feedback has been negative
23:49 GitHub41 joined #mojo
23:49 GitHub41 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/PzCK7g
23:49 GitHub41 [mojo/master] removed profile helper - Sebastian Riedel
23:49 GitHub41 left #mojo

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