Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-11-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:49 MojoGuest365 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (78 hits)
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02:08 MojoGuest442 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (79 hits)
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02:34 perlrocks Twitter: "CPANM installs Mojolicious nicely on OpenBSD 5.0!!!" --rbucker http://twitter.com/rbucker​/status/132647044920782848
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04:46 perlrocks Twitter: "I uploaded a @YouTube video http://t.co/d7TTUvfo Perl: Validation::Class, Mojolicious::Lite and HTML5 Form Fi" --_anaio http://twitter.com/_anaio/​status/132680072036491264
04:47 perlrocks Twitter: "Screencast with Mojolicious::Lite, Validation::Class and ::Plugin::FormFields. #cpan #perl #mojolicious http://t.co/LWyzmhYz" --_anaio http://twitter.com/_anaio/​status/132680499176017921
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05:24 tempire lulz.  Torvalds: "I don't actually know the details. I mean Java I really don't care about. What a horrible language. What a horrible VM. So, I am like whatever, you are barking about all this crap, go away. I don't care."
05:25 sri gotta love torvalds
06:05 plu hehe
06:06 plu there's some other java rant in the readme there: https://github.com/torvalds/subsurface
06:06 plu "I'm tired of java programs that don't work etc."
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10:45 GitHub157 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/kov2Jw
10:45 GitHub157 [mojo/master] fixed small trailing slash bug in Mojo::Path - Sebastian Riedel
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12:07 GitHub114 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mlpNTg
12:07 GitHub114 [mojo/master] added experimental canonicalize method to Mojo::URL - Sebastian Riedel
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12:11 sri not sure if routes should automatically canonicalize
12:11 sri you can do some weird shit atm :)
12:12 sri perl -Ilib -Mojo -E'a("/foo/../" => {text => "works"})->start' get /foo/../
12:13 sri atm i tend towards leaving it unspecified
12:15 Vandal on this page https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki "Available Plugins" link is wrong
12:15 sri it's a wiki, fix it! :)
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12:22 ladnaV don't know how :(
12:25 sri learn
12:27 * marty waves
12:27 Vandal give me a hint
12:27 Vandal I must be loged in?
12:28 marcus sri: I'm a bit of a sceptic on the format implementation. For the default app, these urls all match the same route : http://localhost:3000/.0 http://localhost:3000/.html http://localhost:3000/
12:28 burk I want to send a websocket-message when I get a NOTIFY in my database, but I need to check for notifications in a loop, any ideas on how to do this? ie where to put my loop?
12:28 sri marcus: don't complain, make a proposal
12:29 marcus sri: not about the solution, but I know having multiple urls for the same resource makes search engines unhappy.
12:29 marcus not sure even
12:29 sri marcus: i've not been happy with formats for months now, but i don't see how it can be changed without breaking every single app out there
12:30 marcus yeah, that's the question :)
12:31 sri in fact, i've looked into it like 2 months back, but given up
12:32 sri to me it's a WON'T FIX now, unless someone comes up with a really good plan and patches
12:33 sri if i could start fresh i would just require a :format placeholder
12:33 sri always
12:33 sri but that ship is sailed
12:34 marcus yupp
12:35 marcus hmm, seems there will be a dancer tutorial at LPW
12:36 sri you can only disable formats now with ('/foo', format => 0)
12:37 sri anyway, back to work
12:38 sri marcus: also, well volunteered, i'll be awaiting your patches ;p
12:39 * marcus deprecates formats and adds types
12:39 marcus types => [qw/html json/]
12:40 sri wut?
12:40 marcus I'm not seriously suggesting you should deprecate format.
12:40 marcus too much breakage
12:41 sri maybe in a year or two
12:50 sri because if we replace the routes implementation, we better address all issues at once
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13:38 sri marcus: maybe a reasonable compromise would be a prefix character to disable format magic
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13:39 sri get '#/foo' => sub {…};
13:42 sri get './foo' => sub {…};
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14:06 rdesfo hello
14:06 rdesfo I was wondering why I don't get anything out of this script https://gist.github.com/1341537
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14:12 GitHub40 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/RAUVLw
14:12 GitHub40 [mojo/master] added a few message examples - Sebastian Riedel
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14:16 marcus sri: yeah
14:16 marcus sri: but I agree, it's good to find all the pain points before changing
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14:26 GitHub22 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/3XspCg
14:26 GitHub22 [mojo/master] added a few more controller examples - Sebastian Riedel
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14:35 marcus sri: your change to
14:35 marcus Message.pm does not seem to be consistent with the text directly above it.
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14:35 sri marcus: ?
14:36 * sri doesn't see it
14:36 marcus sri: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/37673681a137b40​91c64500e3a1751cf7f9ccf80/lib/Mojo/Message.pm#L700
14:37 sri marcus: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/37673681a137b40​91c64500e3a1751cf7f9ccf80/lib/Mojo/Message.pm#L697
14:37 marcus you document it taking an optional parameter to do find directly, then call find in the next line.
14:37 sri yes, to show more diversity
14:38 marcus sri: maybe better to use ->at for the diversity example than find?
14:38 sri i wanted an example that uses collections though :/
14:39 sri at is rather boring
14:39 marcus mkay, I just thought it was a bit confusing.
14:40 sri can always add more examples
14:40 marcus sri: love the other examples you added tho
14:41 marty rdesfo:  Your url is borked
14:42 marty rdesfo: fix the url and "say $duck" and you'll see what is going on.
14:43 marcus ooh, google is doing an algorithm update to give fresh content higher ranking. Much needed
14:44 marcus http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/gi​ving-you-fresher-more-recent-search.html
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14:44 GitHub196 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/WyzATQ
14:44 GitHub196 [mojo/master] made dom examples more marcus proof - Sebastian Riedel
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14:44 sri :)
14:45 marcus I like being mentioned in commit messages :)
14:45 sri send more patches!
14:45 * sri closes the door before marcus can sneak out
14:45 marcus :D
14:46 marcus It's easier to just annoy you and get mentioned that way.
14:46 marcus sri: btw, I think I give up on couch
14:47 marcus it seems to be really suck once you get load on it
14:47 sri interesting
14:47 sri marcus: which version?
14:47 purl which version is that?
14:49 marcus sri: well, mst was complaining about it before, and then I saw this today: http://twitter.com/#!/schmich​ael/status/132606384649936898 . I've heard other people I trust complain about similar things as well.
14:49 sri tempire: i think you'll like this screencast intro, some really fun ideas http://www.couchbase.org/get/couchbase/2.0.0
14:49 marcus not sure which versions they refer to tho.
14:50 sri wait, you mean mongodb?
14:50 sri Y U SAY COUCH!
14:51 marcus wtf
14:51 marcus I meant mongodb
14:51 marcus need to cut down on the drugs I guess.
14:52 sri or get more
14:52 marcus or better
14:52 * sri nods
14:55 sri marcus: on the other hand there's stuff like this http://blog.10gen.com/post/12197182712/viber-m​edia-selects-mongodb-as-database-in-the-cloud
14:55 sri they use 130 nodes on aws
14:57 burk hum, I cannot get this example to work https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Mojolicious-and​-anyevent/047456ba421cc1a06ee0a1552a01b0fd42721b9d
14:57 burk time of last tick is always 0
14:59 sri burk: umm, are you intentioally linking to an outdated version of a wiki page?
14:59 sri *+n
15:00 burk oh, not intentionally no
15:00 burk thanks (:
15:00 sri :)
15:19 sri marcus: what would be your second choice after mongodb?
15:19 marcus sri: riak or redis, I guess.
15:19 marcus kind of depends on the task
15:19 sri well, redis doesn't count i think
15:20 marcus I suppose
15:20 sri i would run redis in addition to a normal db
15:20 marcus sri: the last app I wrote in mongodb, I decided to rewrite in postgresql
15:20 marcus might use redis with that one as well
15:20 sri :o
15:20 marcus but we needed proper transaction support
15:20 sri have you actually done some load testing?
15:20 marcus since it's a ticket system.
15:21 marcus it's not the load
15:21 marcus it was the transactions
15:21 sri you complained about it ;p
15:21 marcus that's not why I rewrote that app tho
15:21 sri would love to see a good comparison between mongodb and redis under heavy load
15:21 sri umm
15:21 marcus I've never had any mongodb app with high loads
15:21 sri riak
15:21 sri not redis
15:21 marcus Just heard other people complain bitterly once they do
15:22 marcus mongo is really quick for prototyping stuff tho
15:24 sri riak still seems like a mess
15:24 sri just riak-search that still intrigues me a little
15:25 marcus elasticsearch as storage? :)
15:25 marcus it's java tho
15:25 sri hadoop!
15:25 marcus HBase!
15:25 marcus Cassandra!
15:25 purl cassandra is an open source distributed database management system :  http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/
15:26 sri well, the nsa and facebook use hbase, it has to be good ;p
15:27 marcus facebook also use php
15:28 sri and they compile it to C++
15:29 marcus I agree, facebook has skillz
15:29 marcus at least they manage to release ios apps without fucking it up completely.
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15:56 marty I have to admit, It took me quite a while to get used to doing things in mongodb, but now I really really like it.
15:58 marty I loaded some large test data for my ecommerce app and I found that correct use of compound indexes made a huge impact on performance
16:00 sri marcus: hmm, the tweet you linked to is from an urban airship guy
16:01 sri they've been hating on mongodb like forever
16:01 sri yet, they keep using it and write snarky tweets and talks ;p
16:01 marcus It came into my stream through crucially
16:01 marcus (sky)
16:01 sri he has been hating on mongodb a lot too
16:02 sri actually, i've not seen negative posts from that many different people
16:06 sri there's a lot more success stories as far as i can see
16:07 marty The think that will put mongo over the top is  a native mojolicous driver.   wakka wakka
16:08 sri it's still a spare-spare-time project, but i'm working on it :)
16:09 marty \o/
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16:21 sri hmm, looks like perlrocks has connection problems
16:21 sri gonna turn it off for a bit and try later again
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17:08 GitHub115 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/lpPhKA
17:08 GitHub115 [mojo/master] improved transaction descriptions and added a few examples - Sebastian Riedel
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17:15 GitHub83 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/sGf-9A
17:15 GitHub83 [mojo/master] fixed alias links in WebSocket transaction - Sebastian Riedel
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19:32 sri marcus: http://blog.schmichael.com/201​1/11/05/failing-with-mongodb/ # the full story it seems
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19:47 marcus sri: interesting
19:48 * marcus is watching gas land
19:48 marcus interesting documentary
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20:25 sri marcus: actually i'm tempted to give couchbase 2.0 a try
20:26 marcus sri: they have some solid users as well.
20:39 sri interesting, 2.0 uses the memcached protocol, not REST
20:39 sri the frontend and clustering is mostly membase, persistence and indexing couchdb
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21:01 sri there's a rest api for admin tasks
21:13 marcus that is a pretty big change.
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22:14 elb0w_ So I just updated my mojo, Warning: Use of "pop" without parentheses is ambiguous at /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1/​Mojo/Transaction/WebSocket.pm line 319.
22:14 elb0w_ Any idea?
22:14 purl well, Any idea is welcomed.
22:14 elb0w_ sri: you there?
22:22 sri elb0w: what do you mean, any idea?
22:23 elb0w_ why I'm getting that warning
22:23 elb0w_ Is it my perl version?
22:23 sri apparently
22:23 purl That's a great theory.
22:23 elb0w_ upgrading it now
22:23 elb0w_ will see
22:23 sri who cares? it's a warning
22:24 elb0w_ Its Mojo I've come to expect better :P
22:24 sri legacy perl versions tend to warn about all kinds of stupid shit
22:24 sri they are unsupported after all
22:24 elb0w_ yeah
22:26 sri when it comes to legacy perl versions i don't care as long as tests pass
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22:28 GitHub182 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/UVuVRQ
22:28 GitHub182 [mojo/master] make warning go away on legacy Perl versions - Sebastian Riedel
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22:33 elb0w_ ok
22:33 elb0w_ lol ty sri
22:33 elb0w_ :)
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