Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-11-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 vervain Cool... thanks.
00:01 xaka i didn't say that it's bad, i just said what i've got after upgrade from super-old release, but your "can't handle" really shows your respect, sad. keep it simple next time, nobody tries blame you
00:06 memowe vervain: while sri uploads a better example, try sub { ... } => 'name';
00:06 sri SPOILER!
00:06 purl rumour has it spoiler is Hermione dies or ron dies or harry dies or hagrid dies or JK Rowling dies and never bothers us with her crap again or hermoine can't contain herself any longer and does ron's corpse with a strapon
00:06 memowe ;)
00:06 vervain ;-)
00:07 memowe JK Rowling dies? That's f*cking true.
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00:12 GitHub98 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/qPMekQ
00:12 GitHub98 [mojo/master] better route name example - Sebastian Riedel
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00:12 xaka when i use websocket's "message" event, can i be sure that in case of long message i'll get the whole message, not a chunk?
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00:21 sri hope that example is ok, not sure if $name might be confusing
00:23 sri stash is explained in the recipe right above it though
00:24 vervain Let me play with it... at first glance I'm confusing name with $r->name
00:24 * sri nods
00:24 vervain That's actually compounding the rabbit hole I was already running down. :-)
00:24 sri i just need something to put into the sub ;p
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00:26 GitHub113 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/9reXpA
00:26 GitHub113 [mojo/master] removed name argument from route name example - Sebastian Riedel
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00:26 sri or actually, i don't need arguments
00:27 sri we didn't have a plain ->render example yet anyway i think
00:28 vervain $0.02 much better... just the direction I was heading in.
00:28 * sri nods
00:31 vervain can you get at the route name in a template?
00:33 vervain My silly example... but don't know how to get at $r->name in ep http://pastebin.com/GV144psf
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00:35 sri it's hidden because it's pretty much never used
00:36 vervain np
00:36 sri <%= $self->match->endpoint->name %> or so
00:36 vervain Ya... I started to look at that... but I'm building a 'demo' that pretty much follows the Lite doc... and that's a bit deep. :-)
00:37 sri in the routing guide you'll find the explanation (the "current" route)
00:39 sri long time ago we had the "route" stash value containing the name, but nobody ever used it
00:41 vervain That's fair... I was just contriving an example... thought it might make a point... but the 'auto template name' makes a better point.
00:41 vervain I have /a/route/with/no/name -> aroutewithnoname.html.ep and then some others
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00:56 vervain I don't supposed that there is a vim syntax definition that can help with the templates under __DATA__?
00:56 vervain I don't intend on using this style for very long... but when I do... or I have trainees that do... ;-)
01:14 xaka i'm writting dbus reactor based on mojo's iowatcher and got stuck. iowatcher works with file handles and uses fileno call inside, but dbus reactor api works with file descriptor. can iowatcher be extended to support both file handles and descriptors?
01:18 vervain An other $0.02... I think that maybe the 'link_to... begin...%>target<% end' Might have a little to much mojo for the Lite tutorial. ;-)
01:32 tempire vervain: http://www.vim.org/scripts​/script.php?script_id=3168
01:33 vervain Woot... never hurts to ask... thanks!
01:36 tempire shnikies
01:36 tempire a blog post by marcus
01:36 tempire it's early christmas!
01:41 vervain Can I use content_for in my route sub => { }?
01:42 tempire don't know
01:42 tempire try it
01:42 vervain Ah - got id... $self->content_for('body_header' => 'My content_for demo');
01:45 vervain I know you guys don't need to be swamped with suggestions... but I know that _my guys_ are going to want more expressive demos... so I figure it can't hurt to post my ideas... ignore them if you like... no sweat.
01:45 vervain http://pastebin.com/0FQesiGy
01:46 tempire you should make the expressive demos and post them
01:46 tempire on the ironman feed
01:46 vervain Post them to were
01:46 vervain oh... snap.
01:46 * vervain now has to find out where I feed my ironmen ;-)
01:46 tempire or blogs.perl.org
01:46 purl blogs.perl.org is probably finally live!
01:50 vervain Ah... I get the Marcus does a blog reference from earlier.
01:50 vervain I also pointed out mojo as a better way to test rest since WWW::Mech isn't smart enough.
01:52 tempire Test::Mojo
01:53 vervain Ya
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01:56 tempire http://blog.joda.org/2011/11/real-l​ife-scala-feedback-from-yammer.html
01:56 tempire shopping?
01:56 purl shopping is a drag. or a great time, if it's *barber* shopping! </kitch>
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03:33 vervain $0.02: In M::Lite, Content negotiation, the M::Controller->respond_to() should probably be labeled as 'Experimental'.
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04:29 * crab sits and collects $0.02s
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06:43 marcus vervain: why? I thought it was initially, and then removed.
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07:00 marcus I submitted my damn blog post to hacker news - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3294090
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07:05 marcus spanish translation of Mojolicious guides is coming along nicely - https://github.com/frcepeda/Spanish​-Translation-of-Mojolicious--Guides
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07:27 crab marcus: nice blog post
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09:55 sri http://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc6455.txt # \o/
09:57 crab heh, i didn't know alexey was involved in websockets too
09:58 crab i guess it stands to reason, as the apps ad.
09:58 tinx So, no drafts anymore, then.
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10:00 GitHub73 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/a0ATUA
10:00 GitHub73 [mojo/master] we support RFC 6455 already - Sebastian Riedel
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10:01 sri yea, websockets are becoming stable now
10:02 sri marcus: btw. respond_to is still experimental
10:02 sri i didn't get much feedback about Accept detection and the 204 default response yet
10:03 marcus oh
10:03 marcus so why did vervain say it should be experimental? :)
10:03 sri i think he means in the guides or so
10:03 crab marcus: i think he means the examples that talk about it
10:04 crab should say "this might be cruelly ripped out from under your feet if you're not careful" ;-)
10:04 sri i don't mark it in the guides because making stuff non-experimental would become rather tedious
10:04 sri in the end it would prolly just keep me from writing documentation for everything experimental in the first place
10:07 sri wonder how long it will take apple to add websockets to safari :S
10:07 sri they the only ones ignoring new specs
10:07 sri *+are
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10:15 marcus I dunno, mobilesafari is better at specs than the android equivalent.
10:16 marcus but they have been slow with this web socket thing, yeah.
10:16 sri true, android browsers is total garbage
10:16 sri but mobile safari is only a little better
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10:28 marcus hmm, a mojo get nagios plugin would probably kick ass
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10:41 MojoGuest356 hi?
10:41 purl leave me alone, willya!
10:47 * marcus bops purl on the noggin
10:51 marcus tempire: translations of mojocasts for next round of gci?
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12:47 GitHub15 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/b9NiOg
12:47 GitHub15 [mojo/master] fixed small portability issue in loader test - Sebastian Riedel
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13:27 crab heh, speaking of advent calendars: http://rant.gulbrandsen.priv.no​/hack/advent-calendar-for-nerds
13:29 * marty waves
13:30 marty Hmm, Kendoui released their jquery framework today and it includes a gpl3 version.  Might be a competitor for the jqueryui stuff.
13:32 crab gpl3 is a weird license for a javascript library
13:33 crab but the last time i looked at kendoui, it was very flashy and had no documentation.
13:34 marty The docs are pretty good now.   Nothing great, but enough to usually figure things out.
13:35 marty But the grid widget is still way behind jqgrid.
13:38 crab marty: i've been generally happy with jquery ui, though my use of it is pretty minimal
13:39 crab thanks for the pointer to the new kendo release. i'll have a look at it.
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13:39 crab i've been thinking about using some of the twitter bootstrap stuff (modals, tabs) instead of jqueryui's stuff.
13:40 crab but bootstrap doesn't have a datepicker, and that's what i like most about jqueryui
13:40 marty Ya, I've been using jquery ui also and overall it's good.   I've played with Kendo but have not comited to using it yet.  Just interesting to see alternatives.
13:42 crab oh great. they require registration blah just to get the minified-only evaluation bundle.
13:42 crab to hell with that.
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13:49 marty Oh that sucks.  I hate it when they ask for registration just to browse
14:04 marcus crab: seems it's lacking 24?
14:05 * sri is lacking pancakes
14:05 elb0w is that guy serious with the wildcard thing on stack overflow
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14:13 Andrei666 hey there..
14:14 Andrei666 is this the right place to ask some questions about Mojolicious...? :p
14:16 metaperl|2 it certainly is
14:16 metaperl|2 one of the right places
14:16 Andrei666 oh...great :)
14:17 Andrei666 i'm a noob with mojo, and i'm tring a new feature...that will be part in a big mojo app
14:18 Andrei666 the thing is..I have multiple tabs written in javascript and I'm trying to populate their content..
14:19 Andrei666 each tab is a controller with an action...
14:20 Andrei666 and after a few days I noticed that i need to pass the stash from the controller to another controller
14:20 Andrei666 is there any other method..to keep all the stashed and for the whole app?
14:21 Andrei666 *stash
14:23 elb0w did you ask this on the mailing list?
14:24 elb0w sounds familiar
14:25 Andrei666 yup
14:25 Andrei666 an I got no answer  :p
14:27 marcus Andrei666: defaults?
14:27 purl defaults is easier to read later
14:28 Andrei666 hmm
14:28 marcus Andrei666: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious#defaults
14:28 Andrei666 what is defaults?
14:28 purl rumour has it defaults is easier to read later
14:29 Andrei666 so..can I set ...100 defaults?
14:29 marcus Andrei666: Having 100 things in stash sounds like a horrible design no matter how you do it
14:30 Andrei666 i know...
14:30 Andrei666 i was just throwing a number..
14:30 Andrei666 so..I'm reading from the mojo site
14:30 Andrei666 Default values for the stash, assigned for every new request.
14:31 Andrei666 that means I must set default values...for every tab that I use?
14:31 crab it's not clear to me what you're even trying to do
14:31 crab what sort of default values are these?
14:32 Andrei666 yes..It's my bad
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14:32 Andrei666 I will rephrase whatI;m tring to do
14:33 marcus I don't understand what you mean by tab
14:34 Andrei666 i have some tabs written in java script, it's a tabstrip just like this
14:34 Andrei666 http://demos.kendoui.com/web/tabstrip/index.html
14:35 Andrei666 each tab, is a controller, and has an action
14:35 Andrei666 and their content is either from within the action or from the template of that action or both..
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14:37 Andrei666 and the thing is....that the stash of each controller/action gets emptied after each render...
14:37 Andrei666 and the system that their built in...has actually to render(s)
14:38 Andrei666 the one solution that I've found is to pass the stash of each controller to the controller..that get's their content...
14:38 Andrei666 is there another way to do it?
14:41 marcus uhm
14:42 marcus I still don't understand
14:42 marcus guess I'm dumb
14:42 tinx Sounds like sessions?
14:42 Andrei666 hmm...I'm not expressing myself clear
14:43 Andrei666 here's the link from the mailgroup
14:43 Andrei666 http://groups.google.com/group/mojolicious/​browse_thread/thread/8696e8d62d42d788?hl=en
14:44 Andrei666 maybe it's clearer there
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14:47 tinx You want common context data across requests.  That's what sessions are for.  Can't you just put your state in some corner of your session?
14:49 sri Andrei666: if it was clear you prolly would have gotten an answer already
14:51 sri the answer is prolly quite simple, problem is finding the right question
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14:57 Andrei666 indeed, I'm not expressing myself, too clear...
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15:00 MojoGuest338 lol
15:00 MojoGuest338 /whois nuba
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15:03 Andrei666 ok...I'll try a different aproach...
15:03 Andrei666 how can I pass the content of on controller to another controller, and another controller without loosing the stash from the first?
15:04 Andrei666 :)
15:06 crab "pass the content" across requests?
15:06 crab or within a request?
15:07 crab within a controller, you can instantiate another controller: $class->new(app => $self->app, stash => $self->stash, tx => $self->tx)
15:08 crab whether that's good enough for what you want, &deity knows. i still don't understand what sort of content you want to put in your stash.
15:10 Andrei666 well , currently I'm doing it like you said..
15:12 crab then you're probably doing something horribly wrong :-)
15:14 Andrei666 :))
15:15 Andrei666 so after talking to a buddy here, he suggested that I should ask this way...
15:16 Andrei666 is it within framework standards or philosophy, to get to content of a controller, into another controller and output it somewhere?
15:16 sri "content of a controller" sounds all wrong
15:17 Andrei666 ok...the content of an action of a controller...
15:17 sri i have a hunch you may just be looking for template includes or partial rendering
15:17 Andrei666 yup
15:17 Andrei666 that's it
15:18 sri thats all in the rendering guide
15:18 sri it's view concepts, not controller
15:19 Andrei666 hmm
15:20 Andrei666 so I want the output of this... controller=>'tab1', action=>'index' to be placed in another controller/action
15:20 Andrei666 without passing the stash every time for tab1, tab 2, etc...
15:20 sri doesn't work that way
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15:21 sri you really want to leave the controller out of it and focus on the view
15:21 Andrei666 ok...
15:21 Andrei666 and how should I do it..?
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15:23 sri now that's for someone more qualified than me to explain, but you have the right question to ask now :)
15:23 Andrei666 :)) thanks :P
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15:55 Topic for #mojo is now Mojolicious real-time web framework ♥ http://mojolicio.ushttp://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/todayhttp://dev.xantus.org
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16:47 marcus 15:36:32 imarcusthis ~ So will there be a textmate2 advent calendar? ;-)
16:47 marcus 15:55:07 allan ~ imarcusthis: it was the plan, but unfortunately doing the 24 posts (about new features) is _way_ behind schedule
16:47 marcus oh oh
16:47 sri oh noes
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17:55 elb0w man mojo has spoiled me
17:55 elb0w trying to find decent framework in other languages sucks
17:55 elb0w php fuckin blows and theres nothing I can use
17:55 elb0w feel like any of these would just die in a month
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18:00 xaka sri: i got into some very confusing situation. I use v2.34 and when i use UserAgent within simple script it works fine, but when i use it within a project, it fails during parsing first line of htpt response. named groups are undefined somehow, but $1 (version), $2 and $3 are defined. Ideas?
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18:08 xaka i don't even know how to debug this case to provide more usefull information, but, probably, you should return back to $1 instead of named groups?
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18:30 vervain elb0w... reminds me of a comment in I believe an early verson of programming perl... 'if you find switching between perl, c, c++ and java confusing just stick to perl'. ;-)
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18:31 elb0w I talked him into letting me use mojo
18:31 vervain Cool.
18:31 elb0w except we use dbi
18:31 elb0w lol
18:31 elb0w so I need a DBIx::Connector now
18:32 vervain I just did an evaluation sweep... and I'm now working with Mofo, having switched from Cat.
18:32 vervain I'm currently just using more or less a raw DBI 'thingy'.  I'll need to move it to some custom module at some point but it's just grossly inline for the time being.
18:32 vervain I don't use ORMs though.
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18:35 * vervain reads DBIx::Connector
18:35 vervain Looks like something I may want to use too.
18:35 elb0w Well DBI will drop an inactive connection
18:36 elb0w So you either write a method to periodically ping, which doesnt work so well
18:36 vervain Right.
18:36 elb0w or you use DBIx which keeps a hash of your connection and tries to execute a query
18:36 elb0w if it fails it acts like a loop and reconnects then retries the block
18:36 elb0w thats their fixup sub
18:37 vervain Ya... looks good.
18:50 sri it also handles fork
18:51 sri with plain DBI you would need lazy initialization tricks to make it work
18:52 xaka any ideas about my case? how can i help? i have to rollback to prev mojo to be sure project will work, but i really don't want to do :(
19:00 elb0w sri: I am moving my other job from apache-php using pdo to hypno-mojo using DBI
19:00 elb0w am I making a good decision?
19:00 elb0w the DBI is mostly reads
19:01 sri you tell me :)
19:01 elb0w im trying to figure out what a good formula would be for how many dbi connections ill need on average
19:01 sri dbi is blocking, so one per worker
19:02 elb0w yeah i mean my queries take miliseconds
19:02 elb0w so to calculate latency per user I guess I need to find my most expensive queries
19:02 sri doesn't matter, dbh usage is exclusive, whole process will share one connection
19:02 elb0w yeah but that doesnt mean 5 workers will only support 5 users
19:03 sri but 5 concurrent db queries
19:03 elb0w yeah
19:03 elb0w otherwise itll delay them by the query time
19:03 sri so it is always 5
19:03 elb0w wont php do the same thing with PDO?
19:03 elb0w or no because i create a new connection every page hit
19:04 elb0w hmm
19:04 elb0w great im worried now
19:04 elb0w lmao
19:04 sri always test
19:04 elb0w any suggestion testers?\
19:05 sri you can always lower the number of concurrent connections per worker and increase number of workers
19:05 sri if you need to you can make it work like php, with one user per process at a time
19:06 elb0w yeah but then id need to run a ton of workers
19:06 sri that's the price of blocking
19:06 elb0w how does php accomplish it
19:07 elb0w is it like on demand workers?
19:07 sri the same
19:07 purl rumour has it the same is true of Memento
19:07 sri apache worker processes
19:07 elb0w eso right now I have 14 apache2's running
19:07 elb0w that would be like 14 workers?
19:07 sri but the whole topic is much more complicated
19:07 elb0w yeah, im still trying to wrap my head around it
19:08 elb0w I feel like once I fully udnerstand this ill hear a pop
19:08 sri you couldn't for example just go non-blocking and use 10000 parallel db connections
19:08 sri since databases have limits too
19:08 elb0w whats the harm in launching 100 workers?
19:08 sri memory usage
19:08 purl memory usage is either V^2, or size of transitive closure, depending on how the initial graph is given.
19:08 sri if you have it, go for it
19:09 elb0w great
19:09 sri it's all tradeoffs
19:09 sri in the end you prolly worry for nothing
19:09 sri blocking dbi calls in non-blocking apps also have advantages
19:09 sri they throttle load
19:10 sri so your databases doesn;t get overloaded
19:10 elb0w The queries are so quick I cant imagine it would become that big of a hastle
19:10 sri *-s
19:10 elb0w plus im using mysql proxy to load balance requests
19:10 elb0w so the db usage not as worried
19:10 elb0w and I can use nginx upstream for multiple boxes housing the hypno's
19:10 elb0w if I need to
19:11 sri sounds like you don't need to worry too much
19:11 elb0w Yeah, would like to find a worry free solution. But I guess that would be like winning the internet huh
19:12 elb0w haha
19:12 sri there is no such thing ;p
19:12 elb0w So I guess ill write a DBIx plugin
19:12 elb0w sort of obnoxious wrapping everythng in fixup though
19:16 elb0w !stat
19:16 elb0w er
19:23 MojoGuest134 joined #mojo
19:23 MojoGuest134 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (160 hits)
19:24 MojoGuest66 joined #mojo
19:24 MojoGuest66 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (161 hits)
19:24 MojoGuest4 joined #mojo
19:24 MojoGuest4 From: http://blog.kraih.com/perl-is-ready-for-html5 (40 hits)
19:24 xaka omg, i hate vmware, their perl sdk has "UNIVERSAL::AUTOLOAD" sub which somehow has an effect on named captures
19:26 xaka and that's why new mojo doesn't work inside the project, %+ is always empty, there is no $+{version} and so on
19:26 MojoGuest940 joined #mojo
19:26 MojoGuest940 From: http://networkedblogs.com/33Knp (8 hits)
19:26 sugar joined #mojo
19:27 elb0w id like to put that Mojo irc client on a port site just to laugh at people
19:27 elb0w From: http://menwhodochickens.com/ (30 hits)
19:28 MojoGuest245 joined #mojo
19:28 MojoGuest245 From: http://blog.kraih.com/perl-is-ready-for-html5 (41 hits)
19:28 MojoGuest245 I want this script on my sitee.
19:29 MojoGuest245 /j #test
19:29 MojoGuest245 left #mojo
19:29 sri little scary how many hits that irc client is still getting, considering it has been offline for a few months
19:30 elb0w lol
19:30 sri ah
19:31 sri it's again the number one hit for "websocket irc" on google
19:32 MojoGuest227 joined #mojo
19:32 MojoGuest227 From: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp​;q=websocket%20irc&amp;source=web&amp;cd=4&a​mp;ved=0CDMQFjAD&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.xa​ntus.org%2F&amp;ei=n4TWTrnrFYrg0QGjn8SEDg&am​p;usg=AFQjCNGw6nZv0wO42uzUnHhWcD0vcKNULg (2 hits)
19:32 MojoGuest227 Hi
19:32 purl salut, MojoGuest227.
19:32 MojoGuest227 Hey SRI
19:32 * sri pokes MojoGuest227
19:33 MojoGuest87 joined #mojo
19:33 MojoGuest87 From: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp​;q=websocket%20irc&amp;source=web&amp;cd=4&a​mp;ved=0CDMQFjAD&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.xa​ntus.org%2F&amp;ei=n4TWTrnrFYrg0QGjn8SEDg&am​p;usg=AFQjCNGw6nZv0wO42uzUnHhWcD0vcKNULg (4 hits)
19:33 MojoGuest996 joined #mojo
19:33 MojoGuest996 From: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp​;q=websocket%20irc&amp;source=web&amp;cd=4&a​mp;ved=0CDMQFjAD&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.xa​ntus.org%2F&amp;ei=n4TWTrnrFYrg0QGjn8SEDg&am​p;usg=AFQjCNGw6nZv0wO42uzUnHhWcD0vcKNULg (5 hits)
19:33 MojoGuest996 thats spammy
19:33 sri i can ban you
19:33 sri same hostmask
19:33 elb0w haha figured it would throttle
19:33 elb0w dont hate :(
19:34 * sri hates
19:34 MojoGuest996 part
19:34 MojoGuest996 /part
19:34 MojoGuest996 !
19:34 MojoGuest996 was kicked by sri: Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.
19:34 sri see, throttled
19:34 elb0w lol
19:35 elb0w thats not my hostmask?
19:35 sri the checksum is based on ip address
19:36 elb0w ah
19:36 elb0w clever
19:52 elb0w http://map.itoworld.com/road-casualties-usa#
19:52 elb0w pretty nuts
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20:10 elb0w sri: how do I calculate mem usage per worker?
20:10 jnap joined #mojo
20:10 elb0w or do I just do a top?
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20:58 MojoGuest597 joined #mojo
20:58 MojoGuest597 From: http://blog.kraih.com/perl-is-ready-for-html5 (42 hits)
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21:54 sri TIL reddit automatically adds downvotes to prevent people from gaming the system :o
22:06 smpb_ joined #mojo
22:10 bosphorus joined #mojo
23:07 crab were you trying to game the system when you learned this? :-)
23:21 metaperl joined #mojo
23:35 MojoGuest580 joined #mojo
23:35 MojoGuest580 From: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&a​mp;q=extjs%20irc%20chat&amp;source=web&amp​;cd=5&amp;ved=0CFUQFjAE&amp;url=http%3A%2F​%2Fdev.xantus.org%2F&amp;ei=s73WTtPoNorrtg​fktpWfCA&amp;usg=AFQjCNGw6nZv0wO42uzUnHhWc​D0vcKNULg&amp;sig2=Bmgfdb6MRfxscryX269n7Q (1 hits)
23:35 MojoGuest878 joined #mojo
23:35 MojoGuest878 From: http://link.smartscreen.live.com/?l=http​%3a%2f%2fdev.xantus.org%2f&amp;p=1&amp;u​=&amp;r=AGQ=&amp;d=I&amp;c=JMCvjomyK0S/k​mdAKhFDbA==&amp;y=175F07&amp;h=TZ7TLcAb (1 hits)
23:36 MojoGuest878 hi
23:36 purl hola, MojoGuest878.
23:37 MojoGuest580 hey luke, in in here?
23:37 MojoGuest878 yah
23:37 MojoGuest580 \nick Kevin
23:38 Luke /pm kevin hi
23:38 Luke hmm
23:38 Luke /whisper kevin hi
23:38 Kevin /send Luke hi

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