Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-12-18

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03:32 tempire has anything changed on the json front?  is Mojo::JSON still the fastest pp implementation?
03:37 sri tempire: think so
03:39 tempire $ua->get('mojolicio.us');  $ua->cookie_jar->find('mojolicio.us');
03:40 tempire oh, I guess you have to pass it a new cookie jar object
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03:41 tempire I suppose I'm misunderstanding its purpose, shouldn't that return something?  I'm expecting a cookie, but reports the error: Can't locate object method "host" via package "mojocasts.com"
03:43 tempire er, mojolicio.us
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03:51 sri use the Mojo::URL luke
04:04 tempire I guess until and while were removed from Mojo::Collection a long time ago?
04:08 sri tempire: yea, they made no sense
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04:13 GitHub148 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/cHKySA
04:13 GitHub148 [mojo/master] Merge pull request #246 from wcravens/hook-highlights-mojolicious-pod - Sebastian Riedel
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04:18 GitHub84 [mojo] kraih force-pushed master from ee10a22 to abbe257: http://git.io/BhzC7A
04:18 GitHub84 [mojo/master] added bold highlights to pod for built-in hooks - Wes Cravens
04:18 GitHub84 [mojo/master] updated credits - Sebastian Riedel
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04:19 sri ops, i might have messed up there
04:20 sri history looks ok though
04:26 * tempire would like a bash syntax highlighter for xml
04:27 * sri has switched from bash to zshell
04:27 tempire does that do syntax highlighting?
04:27 sri it does *a lot*
04:32 tempire no simple tutorial for making it go with syntax highlighting
04:32 tempire boo
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04:55 tempire parallel requests, events….too advanced for a user agent mojocast?
05:05 sri you tell me
05:06 sri my guess would be yes though
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07:42 sri crab: btw. i agree with marcus, you need a gravatar!
07:55 sugar joined #mojo
08:44 crab it was tempire who said that, actually
08:47 crab but, i'm lame and non-pictorial.
08:53 marcus crab: use a picture of Kali? :)
08:55 marcus and I can replace my gravatar with Odin
08:55 marcus will make Mojolicious releases cooler :p
08:57 marcus sri would have to use something from wagner...
08:58 marcus we'll rebrand ourselves as the four horsemen of the mojocalypse
09:00 sri lol
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09:03 Topic for #mojo is now Mojolicious real-time web framework ☃ http://mojolicio.ushttp://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/today ☃ Prepare for Mojocalypse
09:03 sri marcus: i use sketch and pixelmator
09:03 * sri rereads backlog
09:03 marcus sri: I have pixelmator 2 as well, but I don't use it
09:04 sri what a waste!
09:04 purl a waste is a terrible thing to mind... or We Await Silent Tristero's Empire or We Await Simon Travaglia's Empire or We Await Stimps' Toast Empire or What A Stupid Tantrum, Eh?
09:04 marcus sri: gonna make a metacpan logo?
09:04 sri well, i have an idea i'm gonna try
09:05 sri not gonna waste too much time on it though, just for fun
09:05 marcus mm
09:05 marcus https://github.com/jashken​as/coffee-script/pull/1942 coffeescript getting cooler
09:06 marcus Played with Perlito yesterday, but it's very immature
09:06 marcus seems like a fo fun only project, like most of p6 :-/
09:06 sri i actually don't like the -> syntax in coffeescript
09:07 sri looks weird to me
09:07 marcus sri: possibly because you are used to perl?
09:07 sri i'm also used to C, ruby and python
09:07 marcus C uses -> for something, methinks?
09:09 marcus pointers
09:09 purl pointers are shiny!
09:09 sri similar to perl deref
09:10 marcus square = (x) -> x * x
09:10 purl square = (x) -> x * x is python?
09:10 marcus purl: ORILLY?
09:10 purl bugger all, i dunno, marcus
09:13 marcus sri: I think I could get used to -> for function() { }
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09:15 marcus sri: it's error messages seem decent also, unlike Perlito
09:16 sri oh, i'm not arguing for using perlito over coffeescript
09:16 sri it is surely the best language for compiling to javascript
09:17 sri that patch explains a few angry tweets involving await/defer in my timeline :)
09:23 * marcus ponders the feasability of compiling coffeescript to p5
09:23 sri should be very possible, i've thought about it
09:25 sri don't think it's worth it though
09:31 * marcus & # squash
11:34 sri marcus: https://github.com/mads379/Whitespace.tmbundle # that looks extremely useful
11:36 plu oh nice
11:36 plu does it visually mark the trailing whitespac, somehow?
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11:41 sri i'd think so
11:41 plu hmm
11:41 plu is that TM2 only? I cannot seem to get it working
11:42 plu or it's just for smart people... I'm not one of them :)
11:42 sri tm2 ye
11:42 plu ahh :(
12:08 memowe marcus: Anna fixed the Cookbook. I didn't check the whole diff, but if she fixed everything I wrote about, the text should be fine.
12:36 marcus memowe: I just approved it :)
12:37 marcus sri: neat!
12:37 * marcus tries to figure out how to add bundles to TM2
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13:14 sri marcus: Library/Application Support/Avian/Bundles
13:15 marcus sri: according to docs I found it should be Library/Application Support/Avian/Pristine Copy/Bundles
13:15 sri only for those you don't intend to edit
13:17 marcus I think it copies it when you try to edit
13:21 sri only the parts you change
13:21 sri which makes sending patches a little tricky
13:23 sri wonder how to submit the mojolicious bundle for TM2
13:23 sri it should be updated now
13:26 marcus hmm, whitespace bundle didn't show up in my TM2
13:26 marcus not in pristine, and not in /Bundles
13:26 sri heh, my license is #1407
13:27 marcus mine is 8368
13:27 * sri wins o/
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13:29 * marcus switches back to vim after the humiliation of the textmate early adopters.
13:29 marcus oh, I do have whitespace bundle in the bundle editor
13:30 marcus seems to work well  - http://nordaaker.com/docs/skitch/​Cookbook.pod-20111218-143015.jpg
13:30 sri neat
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13:31 sri i like sidebar on the right
13:32 marcus me too
13:32 sri can double click be disabled by now?
13:32 marcus just click the icon
13:32 marcus rather than the text
13:32 sri but it's tiny
13:32 marcus that's what she said
13:32 sri -.-
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14:56 marcus sri: did you see that you can shift open two files with cmd-t in tm2? That's brilliant for opening the pm and t file in many cases.
14:57 marcus like cmd-t json shift downarrow
14:57 sri interesting
15:11 sri memowe: http://httpstatusdogs.com/
15:12 memowe FINALLY! :)
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15:41 Skin hello
15:49 marcus skin: HAI
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16:03 GitHub80 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Ksu6ag
16:03 GitHub80 [mojo/master] fixed small argument bug in client method of Mojo::IOLoop - Sebastian Riedel
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16:05 sri number of callback arguments needs to be constant
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16:41 GitHub198 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/0Y32Uw
16:41 GitHub198 [mojo/master] better callback examples - Sebastian Riedel
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16:43 sri i'd still like to get rid of ids for stream objects
16:43 sri but the disadvantages are not insignificant
17:01 sri oh, that can't be done yet anyway, since deprecated methods depend on it :S
17:02 sri pretty much all of Mojo::IOLoop will stay experimental for a very long time
17:04 sri this will also delay the mongodb driver further
17:04 marcus NOOOOH!
17:04 marcus KHAAAAN
17:06 sri can't do much during the deprecation period, too intermingled
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17:08 marcus let's keep the ids then.
17:08 marcus :)
17:09 marcus sri: why do you need to get rid of the ids? What's the use?
17:10 sri cleaner api
17:12 sri the mongodb driver api is much richer than the useragent one for example
17:12 sri many methods with different callbacks
17:13 sri and very different connection management
17:13 sri different ioloop api changes the design
17:15 marcus I see
17:18 sri http://journal.paul.querna.org/articles/​2011/12/18/the-switch-python-to-node-js/ # wtf? how can so many people be so stupid?
17:18 sri as a joke i tweeted that python doesn't scale
17:18 sri AND PEOPLE JUST AGREED!
17:19 sri apparently absolutely nobody understands how event loops work and just go with what's in fashion at the moment
17:20 sri IT'S NOT TWISTED, IT IS YOU!
17:25 marcus yeah
17:25 marcus dumbasses
17:27 marcus You have validated why I think Node.js is the way to build a large scaled platform. # Yeah, I'm sure you know how to make things scaled.
17:28 sri *facepalm*
17:28 trone lol
17:30 marcus I think the worst node fanboy I ever talked to was the one who was arguing nginx was no match for node.
17:30 sri *double facepalm*
17:34 marcus wow, that stupid python => node blogpost is still on 4. place
17:34 marcus it was 1. all day
17:35 marcus this guy nails it - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3366883
17:36 sri yea
17:43 * marcus ponders going to FOSDEM this year
17:43 marcus yummy belgian beer!
17:45 marcus and by this year, I mean next year, ofcourse.
17:45 marcus february
17:45 purl hmmm... february is not the best month to visit Mtl. A bit cold, you know...
17:49 tempire I support consistency in our gravatars
17:49 tempire I need to change mine anyway, since I cut my ahir
17:49 tempire *hair
17:51 sri hmm hmm hmm
17:52 sri removing ids would mean that $tx->connection becomes a stream object
17:52 sri which in turn means a lot of potential leaks
17:53 tempire leaks don't matter because there's events
17:53 tempire :o
17:56 sri :D
17:56 marcus can we add a 'leak' event?
17:57 tempire maybe.  will it scale?
17:58 marcus depends on how much ram you have
17:59 marcus if you have infinite it will scale
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18:24 trone http://pastebin.com/4ptY7Va4 ← There is a cleaner way to write it? (Is a .ep) I tryed with <%== link_to $text, $pd->{href} %> but it don't bypass $text xml escaping.
18:37 marcus trone: you could use t img => … to get a bytestream
18:45 trone marcus: you mean the image tag helper?
18:45 tempire effectively, image and t img are the same
18:47 trone Indeed, I can substitute the image helper in the $text string creation.
18:48 marcus trone: that should be fine to stuff into a link helper
18:49 marcus trone: that's why you can stuff tag helpers into <%= in the first place
18:49 marcus because they return bytestreams, not strings
18:50 tempire trone: http://pastie.org/3037073
18:50 trone marcus: ok, probably the point is that I missed the bytestream thing. :D Thanks. Go to check and read better.
18:51 marcus tempire: you make it sooo sexy =)
18:51 trone tempire++ # lol. sweet. :D thanks
18:51 trone marcus: really. ;-)
18:53 * tempire sashays across the channel
18:58 trone tempire: great. :) it works. (And I learned that I dont have everytime put tag content as first arg and link as second.
18:58 trone thank you both.
19:01 tempire regarding begin and end
19:02 tempire I've been toying around, and I really like -> for begin
19:02 tempire probably because I've been using haskell too much
19:03 tempire so then the question is what about end?
19:03 sri <-
19:03 sri
19:03 tempire oooh
19:03 tempire that's excellent
19:04 tempire I think - looks good in practice
19:04 tempire "-"
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19:04 tempire http://pastie.org/3037147
19:04 tempire also, you never see that by itself in perl
19:05 sri what, you don't like my twinkle syntax?
19:05 tempire twinkle?
19:05 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/ma​ster/t/mojolicious/twinkle_lite_app.t
19:05 sri :)
19:05 tempire not enough asterisks for me
19:06 sri i see
19:06 tempire I had forgotten how easy it was to change the tokens
19:07 tempire This is great!
19:07 tempire maybe . for an ending
19:08 tempire makes blocks look really simple
19:08 tempire I guess ; would make the most sense of all
19:08 marcus cock blocks
19:08 tempire is there a utf8 for that?
19:09 tempire unicode, I mean
19:10 marcus for cock blocking?
19:10 tempire for penis.  but whatever, sure.
19:11 tempire http://shapecatcher.com/unicode_img/8376.png
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19:11 marcus I tried with http://nordaaker.com/docs/skitch/Shapecatcher.com_​_Unicode_Character_Recognition-20111218-201127.jpg
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19:12 marcus but all I got back was Weary face:
19:12 marcus and Pouting face and Crying face
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19:12 tempire kind of fitting
19:13 tempire You realize that we've stopped what we were doing to draw penises.
19:13 marcus might be a reaction to my drawing skills as well
19:13 tempire that's a line, I think.
19:13 tempire and it's been crossed.
19:13 marcus tempire: it's like we're back in highschool!
19:14 tempire I drew a large, detailed penis on my economics teacher's room-length whiteboard once
19:14 tempire took me 30 minutes during lunch
19:14 tempire LESSON: do not leave your classroom unlocked.
19:15 marcus I hope you used permanent marker.
19:15 tempire no.  penises aren't static.
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19:46 memowe Wacom fun. :) http://t.co/axglQtTV
19:46 memowe sorry
19:46 memowe http://flic.kr/p/aXibcZ without twitter tracker
19:46 inokenty Nice
19:48 inokenty M&Ms: The blue one =)
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19:57 rsimoes Any chance of Mojo::JSON using JSON::XS if available?
19:58 rsimoes or will Package::Alias at least work with the pair?
20:01 marcus rsimoes: Mojo::JSON::Any
20:01 marcus rsimoes: it's on cpan
20:01 rsimoes That doesn't replace it internally
20:02 marcus rsimoes: it's just accessors, you can set them.
20:08 sri Mojo::JSON and JSON::XS are not 100% compatible, boolean types and stuff, best to just use JSON::XS directly
20:12 marcus sri: we've had no trouble using the ::Any in our project.
20:13 marcus sri: I think https://metacpan.org/module/Mojo::JSON::XS glosses over the differences
20:15 sri marcus: looks very risky
20:15 sri it depends on internals
20:16 sri might actually be broken, since _exception changed
20:16 marcus eep
20:17 marcus sri: it defines it's own _exception
20:17 marcus it's not using yours
20:17 sri yea, and we depend on _exception dieing internally
20:17 sri error handling is messed up
20:18 marcus hmpf
20:18 marcus let's hope we don't have any errors :)
20:19 sri well, unmaintained module depending on internal implementation details… WHAT COULD GO WRONG?
20:20 marcus I've got nothing
20:21 marcus it's desperately needed it some cases tho. some of the bigger json feeds we've tried parsing has went from 10 second requests to >1second when switching from Mojo::JSON to ::Any
20:21 marcus solr json puke.
20:22 sri you can always release a maintained version *hint hint*
20:22 marcus yeah, I think we'll ask vti about taking it over :p
20:22 marcus maybe I can get judofyr to do it :>
20:24 rsimoes sri: JSON::XS has JSON::XS::true and JSON::XS::false
20:25 sri i know
20:25 marcus sent vti a message asking for permissions
20:25 marcus and forked the damn thing
20:25 marcus sri: it might be useful for UA to have a 'default_json_class'?
20:25 marcus provided I fix this thing :)
20:26 marcus so you don't have to fudge the json accessor for each response.
20:26 sri no, that would be a very very very bad idea
20:26 marcus or an ENV?
20:26 purl i guess an env is shorter. :P or a singleton PMC, so we can use that instead.
20:26 rsimoes an entire Mojo::XS package that does namespace aliasing might be handy
20:26 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldo​c/Mojo/Message#json_class
20:27 rsimoes ensure that the object api are all compatible
20:28 marcus rsimoes: there is one on cpan, as I said.
20:28 rsimoes :|
20:28 marcus rsimoes: just sri pointed out that it's broken.
20:29 marcus sri: yeah, but you have to set that per request?
20:29 * marcus goes to help baby sleep
20:29 sri we can't have env vars for every single class
20:30 sri especially for xs alternatives you just have to hijack the namespace
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20:33 * sri goes to sleep too
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20:44 tempire does mojo get support json parsing?
20:49 marcus tempire: don't think so, but it would be nice if it did
20:49 tempire indeed
20:50 marcus I just got 'ok' from vti on the Mojo::JSON::Any
20:50 marcus copied in the latest json test suite, seems there's some fails.
20:53 tempire what should the usage be?
20:53 tempire (for json command line)
20:53 tempire mojo get search.twitter.com/search.json?q=mojocasts json '{completed_in}'
20:53 tempire mojo get search.twitter.com/search.json?q=mojocasts json '{completed_in}->{results}' ?
20:54 tempire seems ugly
20:54 tempire and I'm guessing it require an eval
20:54 tempire not that that's inherently wrong, every fired event uses an eval
20:55 marcus it's a bit ugly
20:55 marcus I would prefer it it just did content type detection
20:55 marcus so you could do mojo get search.twitter.com/search.json?q=mojocasts completed_in.results
20:56 tempire oh right. I'm thinking in perl again
20:57 marcus provided it serves application/json
20:57 tempire well you could always specify a --header
20:57 marcus tempire: maybe open a ticket for discussion?
20:57 tempire oh yeah!
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21:19 marcus wow, pod2html really outputs ugly HTML
21:20 tempire it's probably pretty by 1995 standards
21:21 marcus And it seems to not understand L<Foo|url>
21:21 marcus http://nordaaker.com/docs/skitch/Guides​.pod_%E2%80%94_Mojo-20111218-222143.jpg
21:22 marcus think I have to write a command to format using Mojo's pod renderer, for my sanity
21:29 tempire I support that initiative
21:29 tempire there's really nothing out there that compares
21:29 tempire although I really do like the color scheme for search.cpan.org
21:30 tempire I find myself preferring the cleanliness and ease of the blue/white
21:30 marcus I've aliased search.cpan.org to metacpan.org in my hosts file.
21:30 tempire I've tried to use metacpan, but I still like the pod layout of search.cpan
21:30 marcus heh, but they could use some help with typography
21:31 marcus like limiting long lines :-/
21:31 tempire meta or search?
21:31 marcus meta
21:31 marcus http://nordaaker.com/docs/skitch/Maypole​__Manual__Beer_-_The_Beer_Database%2C_Tw​ice_-_metacpan.org-20111218-223119.jpg
21:31 marcus like wtf
21:31 marcus but search.cpan.org has horrible search relevance
21:31 marcus and I can contribute to making metacpan better
21:32 tempire could be.  I rarely use search for anything but direct lookup
21:32 tempire and even then, it's usually direct from google
21:33 tempire how are you getting sketch to upload to your domain?
21:33 marcus scp
21:33 marcus it's a setting
21:33 tempire wow
21:33 tempire I just realized you could draw on images
21:33 marcus preferences -> share
21:33 marcus haha
21:34 tempire this is amazing
21:34 marcus yeah sketch is great
21:35 tempire also, osx auto spelling correction
21:35 marcus and you can easily crop your image by dragging the corners
21:36 marcus another one I use frequently is the timed snap.
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21:40 GitHub190 [mojo] marcusramberg pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ATu83g
21:40 GitHub190 [mojo/master] Rephrase reference line and readd reference to learn.perl.org. (Closes #244) - Marcus Ramberg
21:40 GitHub190 left #mojo
21:40 tempire AWESOME
21:40 tempire http://empireenterprises.com/skitch//mojo_%28​empireenterprises.com%29-20111218-134036.jpg
21:41 marcus \o/
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22:21 marcus https://metacpan.org/release/MongoDBI
22:22 * marcus phears the newkirk
22:24 marcus http://iwatchthis.com/video/ac​fb325eec5bb0aa6c64d0834edd7c90
22:43 tempire for aesthetic: filename extensions yea or nay?
22:44 tempire whenever I see .pl for a utility, I tend to think "old school"
22:44 tempire seems like it doesn't matter what language it's written in, as long as it works
22:53 marcus I agree
23:17 tempire memowe: a 10 year old boy in northern california made this: http://empireenterprises.com/skit​ch//Facebook-20111218-151711.jpg
23:17 tempire just this morning
23:17 tempire coincidence?
23:17 purl I think not
23:17 tempire NO!
23:18 marcus I'M AFRAID OF AMERICANS!
23:34 memowe hehehehehe
23:34 memowe tempire: do you know him?
23:34 purl him is it!
23:35 tempire yes
23:35 memowe purl: you aren't a person!
23:35 purl memowe: i'm not following you...
23:36 memowe tempire: please show him my picture and ask him if those are eatable. :)
23:37 tempire I sent it to his mom.  told him the germans are watching.
23:37 memowe I wonder what he'll make next.
23:50 memowe tempire: please send me a picture of his next creature. :)
23:50 tempire :)
23:53 memowe kk, good night.

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