Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2012-01-07

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 marcus xaka: that would work.
00:28 jwang marcus: does PerlNinja's post mean he's using CPAN modules in Node.js apps?
00:29 marcus jwang: no, http://www.xirinet.com/2012/01/some​-more-perl-and-javascript-fun.html
00:31 marcus could be nice to have a js based renderer.
00:31 marcus am thinking v8 might be better than spidermonkey tho.
00:32 marcus https://github.com/pmurias/perl-v8
00:33 jwang interesting
00:34 marcus node.js is a nice ioloop, but it lacks a good mvc framework :)
00:34 marcus and with EV, mojolicious is a very nice ioloop as well.
00:52 marcus sri: considered putting Mojolicious version into the default ua?
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02:17 sri marcus: considered what?
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03:18 GitHub58 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/amtRpg
03:18 GitHub58 [mojo/master] improved most commands with shortcut options - Sebastian Riedel
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03:28 GitHub97 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/LPqJOw
03:28 GitHub97 [mojo/master] better option examples - Sebastian Riedel
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03:42 crab sri: i think he means adding the mojo version to the user-agent header sent by the client
03:42 sri crab: what would be the advantage?
03:42 sri i guess i should ask marcus that ;p
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03:45 sri i'm not really a fan of showing version information to the world
03:45 sri since it makes attacks much easier
03:46 crab i'm a fan of sending some meaningful version information of the user-agent with requests
03:46 crab but i don't think the mojolicious version is too useful
03:47 crab and i'm not much of a fan of sending server version to clients either
03:56 sri is automatic -v for -M HEAD "mojo get" requests really a good idea?
03:56 sri just thought about MOJO_USERAGENT_DEBUG=1
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03:58 sri blarg5576: you look suspiciously like a mojobot
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04:06 crab are -M HEAD "mojo get" requests useful for anything else?
04:07 sri for testing with MOJO_USERAGENT_DEBUG=1
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04:11 sri crab: lets say you're testing an app with -M HEAD, what would you expect to happen?
04:16 crab sri: i can't really imagine doing that, so i can't decide
04:17 sri crab: ok, let me rephrase, since you're the only gunea pig online atm :)
04:18 sri are you ok with the current output of "mojo get -M HEAD /"?
04:18 sri *guinea
04:19 sri use case would be to test if static files are available
04:19 sri mojo get -M HEAD /favicon.ico
04:20 rsimoes where's that actually pulling from?
04:20 sri Mojo::HelloWorld
04:20 crab sri: ./app get -M HEAD /favicon.ico actually prints my favicon.ico
04:20 sri crab: -M is brand new in master
04:21 crab ah
04:21 sri was --method
04:21 sri (is still, but with shortcut)
04:22 crab yes, i am happy with that output
04:22 sri \o/
04:29 rsimoes but but but
04:29 rsimoes it's a HEAD request
04:57 crab so?
04:57 purl i guess so is visiting parents, I'm tagging along for moral support
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05:15 xaka Oh, wow, connected from androphone
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05:46 crab we'll call you andropov
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08:09 sri what could be the shortcut for --home?
08:09 sri -h is of course --help
08:23 marcus moin
08:23 sri moin
08:23 marcus agree about not giving out version info in server responses
08:24 crab sri: -~ ;-)
08:24 marcus but it's traditional for clients to do it, it might be useful when mojo gets huge and shows up in analytics some day :)
08:24 marcus curl does it for instance.
08:24 crab marcus: it's traditional for servers to do it as well
08:25 marcus curl ifconfig.me/ua
08:25 sri mojo user agent is more likely to be embedded in crawly things
08:26 sri risk is extremely small i guess
08:26 sri still, don't really see the advantage
08:26 marcus not sure, I just noticed yesterday while playing with ifconfig.me
08:27 marcus I'm using it as an example in my presentation
08:27 marcus seems they serve content based on ua, because curl gets an ip back, while we get HTML
08:27 marcus which I fix in my presentation with mg ifconfig.me '#ip_address' :)
08:28 marcus they also have xml and json representations which makes it a good example for showing of mojo get
08:28 sri twitter search api is also a good example
08:29 sri quite fun
08:29 sri maybe a little random if you're doing it during a talk :)
08:29 marcus yeah, the riak book uses it, with Justin Bieber :D
08:29 marcus riak handbook
08:31 alnewkirk riak .. ewww (errrrorrlang)
08:32 crab alnewkirk: i am totally convinced by your arguments
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08:33 GitHub63 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/xt594w
08:33 GitHub63 [mojo/master] updated command example - Sebastian Riedel
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08:33 sri woot, 50 lines removed
08:33 sri below 11k lines of code now!
08:33 sri that's over 1k lines removed since a few months ago
08:35 marcus lean mean code killing machine
08:35 marcus more readable like this too
08:36 sri played with riak yet btw?
08:37 alnewkirk checked out the tuts, no interest in learning erlang to use the db :/
08:37 marcus sri: only the book examples.
08:37 marcus alnewkirk: you can write mapreduce in js as well.
08:38 marcus alnewkirk: and no need for erlang to use riak-search or riak 2i or the core k/v stuff?
08:39 marcus but the apis are a bit ugly, imo, and I don't quite see the advantage of 2i over riak search.
08:39 sri configuration not erlang anymore?
08:39 marcus I guess vm.args is riak
08:40 sri when they asked me for feedback back in the days the first thing i said was "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, USE A NEUTRAL FORMAT FOR CONFIG FILES LIKE JSON!!!"
08:40 marcus yea
08:40 sri back then all examples were erlnag and not jabascript though, annoyed me quite a bit
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08:42 sri the shell should reek of erlang too i think
08:42 * sri vaguely remembers
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08:56 tempire vm.args is technically erlang, but within context it's like learning how conf files work.
08:56 tempire you need erlang for post-commit hooks, but everything else is js
08:56 marcus we use perl for our configs :)
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08:56 tempire erlang is still better, 'cause you can reference a bunch of pre-written stuff, but it's not necessary
08:57 * tempire will write erlang post-commit hooks in exchange for cookies
08:58 marcus tempire: I need a post-commit hook to bake cookies, pls.
08:58 tempire well hell
08:59 tempire if I had that I wouldn't be in this channel
09:03 sri marcus: are you using a cinema display?
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09:03 marcus sri: no external displays here
09:04 sri oh
09:04 marcus I have a 24" at work, but I only use it to hook up the ipad and play movies.
09:04 * sri considers getting one and wonders if cinema displays are really worth the price
09:04 marcus arne loves his.
09:05 sri good samsung display is like 1/4 the price
09:12 marcus sri: tbh, might not be worth it if you don't have a thunderbolt capable laptop
09:13 sri that's true, would suck a bit to get an old cinema display and later this year upgrade the macbook to one with thunderbolt
09:16 marcus I'm just hoping my mbp will survive to the next models arrive
09:16 marcus I'm all for 15" MBA / 15" retina display / 15" MBA retina display
09:16 marcus gotta be at least one of those :)
09:17 sri 15" Air with retina display *drool*
09:17 marcus yeah, that would be pretty insane.
09:18 sri i actually like the glossy display though, would miss it a bit
09:20 marcus :o
09:20 marcus I love my nonglossy long time.
09:20 sri glossy4life!
09:20 marcus glossy4mirror
09:23 marcus glossy4life sounds like a top model :-)
09:30 tempire I had a glossy, then got a non-glossy macbook in may
09:30 tempire I'm glad I went back to the non-glossy
09:51 sri hmm
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09:52 sri new metacpan logos have been posted but mine is still missing
09:54 plu sorry, I'm slow :(
09:54 sri ah, np
09:54 plu and I wonder if I should split it in two posts, one with "there's more" and one without
09:54 plu later the voting will be kind of per post
09:55 sri it's the same entry, splitting is a bit silly
09:55 plu mmh
09:55 plu let's say your logo wins, then we still don't know if we should use the one including "there's more" or the one not including it
09:55 plu that's my concern :)
09:56 sri umm
09:56 sri i might have misunderstood the whole contest then
09:56 plu maybe I'm missunderstanding it
09:56 plu I asked mo and oalders about it, but they don't seem to be there currently :(
09:57 sri you want to be spammed with actual renderings in a gazillion versions instead of getting actual designs then?
09:57 plu I'm not sure
09:58 sri it's kind of an important point
09:58 plu true
09:58 sri then the actual color choices would suddenly matter for example
09:59 plu maybe we should move that topic to #metacpan
09:59 * sri nods
10:10 marcus fight the pastryarchy! http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2012-01-07.gif
10:12 memowe Goooooood mooooorning, MOOOOJOOOOOO!
10:23 sri plu: anyway, i submitted my design as one entry
10:23 plu sri: ok, then I'll just post it as one now
10:24 plu we can split it up later shortly before the voting anyway
10:24 plu depending on what the others say :)
10:24 sri i'd rather quit than play the rendering spam game
10:24 plu as I said before, I have no clue if that's the case
10:24 sri i fucking hate contests :)
10:24 plu I was just wondering when I started posting those many logos on how the voting will be done then :)
10:25 plu I'll post yours now as one post, and then we'll see what mo etc have to say :)
10:25 plu that ok?
10:25 purl NO, it isn't
10:25 plu purl: pff, no cookie for you
10:25 purl plu: what?
10:26 sri one entry is what i wanted yes ;p
10:26 plu ok :)
10:27 plu done
10:28 marcus plu++
10:28 tempire sri, are you going to include your other colored one?
10:28 marcus I don't understand the shotgun approach to logo competitions
10:29 sri tempire: nope
10:29 marcus if you submit 5 logos, it makes me think that you're not very sure about your entry.
10:29 plu marcus: I dislike it too after posting those many logos :)
10:30 sri tempire: logo contests are ass backwards in general, perfect example for why you won't see any professionals participating
10:31 tempire they say that; I had wonderful results using logo tournament, though
10:31 sri i could refine a design until the person responsible really likes it
10:31 sri but not in a contest
10:32 sri tempire: "they"?
10:32 purl "They" are watching. Get back to work!
10:32 sri :o
10:32 tempire I've read from various sources that logo competitions are bad because etc etc
10:33 marcus you mean various sources like leading professional designers?
10:33 tempire I don't know about leading
10:33 tempire but yes
10:33 marcus http://www.no-spec.com/faq/
10:33 sri i have yet to see a professional participate in a logo contest
10:35 tempire seems to me it's about which part of the scale you tend towards.  there's always the "right" way to do things, but it doesn't mean you can't get results otherwise.
10:35 tempire as someone who wanted to spend $200, I thought the results were great.
10:35 tempire I figured it was a bunch of students that wanted to make a name for themselves
10:35 tempire but who knows
10:35 purl and it's way past purl's bed time young man!
10:36 sri i have yet to see a contest winner become a professional designer ;p
10:36 tempire seems to me like it be similar to developing open source - you can make quite a name for yourself just by doing stuff, and it can pay off in the end
10:37 tempire *like it would be
10:37 sri there are many more benefits to doing open source as a developer
10:37 crab i wouldn't participate in an open source writing contest
10:38 sri like having many eyes check your code and fix bugs for you
10:38 marcus I fucking love my GX1
10:38 crab what is a gx1?
10:39 marcus micro four thirds camera
10:39 sri tempire: the idea of having hordes of random people on the internet without sny sense for design ridicule your design is very off putting
10:40 sri "BUT IT'S NOT READABLE!!!1"
10:41 sri if you actually care about your designs you really don't want to do that
10:42 sri i would go as far as to say it could be fatal for a young inexperienced designer
10:51 crab they might die?!
10:51 sri as a designer, they might
10:52 sri it's a lot harsher than releasing code, since taste is subjective
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11:38 trone Webapp designer doubt: currently I'm managing wrong GET calls with flash error message and redirect on / (as "/get/myfile.zip" -> no file -> redirect to / and error message). This is cool for users' experience, but HTTP code is not ok (302). There are best practices? Too pretentious? I slightly dislike "long as it works" approach...
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12:26 crab either you live with what you have, or return a 404
13:10 * sri is a little surprised that nobody at all misses the non-blocking dns resolver
13:25 crab i miss it!
13:25 crab i thought that was a really cool thing to have.
13:31 crab (did i ever use it for anything? well... no.)
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13:35 sri :)
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14:51 * marty rolls out of bed
14:52 marty I am proud to announce that we are the new happy parents of a Mac Book Air. As a Linux guy, I gotta admit, it's pretty slick.
14:56 sri congrats ;p
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15:26 marcus was it a rough birth?
15:27 sjn lots of blood and screaming!
15:28 sjn MacBook Air: Paper cuts the 21st century way
15:29 marty Birthing was easy, Apple packaging rocks.  The hard part was writing the check.  :)   It's for the girlfriend. I had her on Ubuntu which worked ok but I want to reduce the "how do I do this" type of questions.  The experiment continues.  :)
15:30 marty Who knows, maybe I'll make the switch myself someday. :O    Those imacs look pretty slick.
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16:24 GitHub50 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/TJU1iw
16:24 GitHub50 [mojo/master] added new FAQ answer - Sebastian Riedel
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16:24 sri marcus: sounds ok?
16:36 marty sri++  Personally I do not see any reason to split Mojolicous into separate distributions.  It's still one of the easiest installs around.  Splitting makes no sense.
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16:48 marcus Sri: +1 - seems Lwp was split up just from popular demand
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17:06 sri \o/
17:06 memowe \\o
17:07 sri o/
17:07 memowe |o                            / (fuck)
17:07 sri Oo
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17:14 crab lesson: don't hurl your arms away from your body.
17:15 memowe sri: is there a canonic way to render an action partially from the app perspective? I used the ua for that.
17:23 sri nope, there is not
17:24 memowe Maybe there's a way to abuse Mojo::Command's render_to_file?
17:25 sri that's something very different
17:25 sri do you just want to render the template or run a whole action?
17:25 memowe I want to run a whole action to generate static html files.
17:25 memowe Maybe app->ua is best for this.
17:26 sri app->handle(Mojo::Transaction::HTTP->new)
17:26 sri (and mess with that transaction)
17:26 sri app->ua is a lot of overhead to do the exact same thing
17:27 memowe Ah! Sounds great. :)
17:27 memowe So I prepare the request, run handle and extract the content from $tx->res?
17:28 sri you can also use app->build_tx and friends to emulate the whole process
17:28 sri yea
17:28 memowe Cool, thanks!
17:28 sri that would also be a useful plugin i suppose
17:28 memowe I want to use it to add a 'dump' command to Bootylite.
17:29 sri if you want to be really cool, you can also support the small details like $tx->connection($old->connection)
17:29 memowe Whoa, reusing the connection?
17:29 sri and all the other information stored in the old transaction
17:30 sri remote/local address/port...
17:30 sri not really reuse, just associate with
17:30 sri so everything works as expected
17:31 sri not really necessary though i suppose
17:31 memowe What do you have in mind with that as a plugin? my @contents = app->render_everything?
17:32 sri my $content = $self->subdispatch(GET => '/lalala');
17:32 sri maybe
17:32 memowe would use url_for...
17:33 sri sure
17:34 memowe Hm, sounds like a small wrapper.
17:34 memowe Would you like to see it in core?
17:34 sri nope
17:34 sri maybe if it becomes popular
17:35 sri but there are many many variables in the design that would have to be fleshed out first
17:35 memowe yup
17:37 sri every now and then we get a request for subdispatch, would be nice to point them at a plugin
17:37 memowe I consider writing it.
17:38 sri i suppose you could steal a bit from the user agent api
17:38 sri and incorporate url_for
17:38 sri maybe a lower level helper that accepts a transaction and processes it
17:39 sri or maybe not :)
17:40 memowe kkk :)
18:25 tempire subdispatch?
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18:46 sri YO DAWG I HEAR YOU LIKE DISPATCHING!
18:48 * marcus puts a dispatcher in sri's dispatcher, so he can dispatch his dispatcher while his dispatcher dispatches.
18:51 sri \o/
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21:43 marcus Kinda sucks that you need developer to install Mojo from cpan on the mac, just because you need make.
21:56 marcus sri: btw, any reason the generators can't set a random secret?
21:56 marcus sri: probably better than people come up with on their own anyways.
22:02 chansen seen makepp? might work
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22:20 marcus yeah, I actually used it once at a client's without a build env.
22:24 chansen cool, never tried it, but looks promising.
22:26 chansen how about shipping a Makefile.PL and a Build.PL with Mojo diet, wouldn't that fix it?
22:26 * chansen s/diet/dist/
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22:49 * tempire is on a low-carb, mojo diet
22:51 tempire A mojolicious workshop!
22:51 tempire I want to go
22:55 chansen I doubt you will succeed lurking sri out of his keep ;P
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23:05 tempire I'm not concerned.  He's just software anyway.
23:07 tempire but if I were to try, there would be beer and women involved, and likely chloroform.
23:07 tempire the beer and women being what distracts me from feeling bad about knocking someone out with drugs.
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23:16 chansen tempire: He
23:17 chansen tempire: He's not just a software company!!
23:17 chansen He is the author of Catalyst and Mojo!!!
23:26 memowe O'Really!? ;)
23:31 marcus chansen: not a software company, a bot ;)
23:40 stephan48 mojo? catalyst? what is that about?
23:40 memowe stephan48: something with computer's, I think.
23:40 memowe I hate that antisocial hacker shizzle.
23:44 stephan48 idk
23:45 tempire There's nothing anti-social here.  Just an abstracted user interface.
23:55 chansen marcus: haha ;P

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