| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:58 |
|
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mire joined #mojo |
| 01:49 |
|
tempire |
echo echo echo |
| 02:07 |
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| 02:23 |
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| 02:24 |
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| 02:39 |
|
crab |
hmm. |
| 02:39 |
|
crab |
i wonder if i should implement database setup etc. as a command. |
| 02:39 |
|
crab |
that might be neat. |
| 02:47 |
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| 03:05 |
|
tempire |
what would it cover? |
| 03:05 |
|
tempire |
looks like schwern laid it down. |
| 03:05 |
|
tempire |
his points are reasonable. |
| 03:08 |
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| 03:30 |
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| 03:38 |
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| 04:20 |
|
crab |
what would what cover? |
| 04:20 |
|
crab |
what did schwern lay down? |
| 04:32 |
|
tempire |
what would your database setup command cover |
| 04:33 |
|
tempire |
crab: ^ |
| 04:33 |
|
tempire |
and, regarding schwern: https://github.com/perl-doc-cats/perlfaq/pull/24 |
| 04:36 |
|
crab |
tempire: i was thinking that i could implement the (app-specific) scripts i currently put in utils/ as subcommands |
| 05:01 |
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| 05:09 |
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| 06:19 |
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| 06:34 |
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| 06:51 |
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| 07:08 |
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| 07:20 |
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| 07:24 |
|
marcus |
so how the hell are you supposed to answer schwern's question in an objective fashion? |
| 07:25 |
|
marcus |
how well does dancer scale in performance vs catalyst, web-simple, mojolicious? |
| 07:25 |
|
|
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| 07:25 |
|
marcus |
They all use PSGI, so what's the difference in getting it running against a web server? |
| 07:25 |
|
marcus |
they all work on all the major operating systems ,afaik? |
| 07:34 |
|
tempire |
if those questions are adhered to, does it need to be objective? |
| 07:35 |
|
tempire |
doesn't seem like objectivity needs to be a standard if there's already a prevailing standard. |
| 07:39 |
|
|
mire joined #mojo |
| 07:45 |
|
crab |
i thought schwern's post was (a) mostly blather, and (b) somewhat rude. |
| 07:45 |
|
crab |
as if deciding on a web framework can be boiled down to reading one answer in perlfaq. bah. |
| 07:48 |
|
marcus |
I've tried to answer the questions for Mojolicious, regardless of agreeing with crab - http://paste.scsys.co.uk/175635 |
| 07:48 |
|
marcus |
any factual errors you guys can spot before I post it on the thread? |
| 07:49 |
|
marcus |
with regards to commercial support, Nordaaker can provide it, but I didn't want to list us as I assume other consulting companies can as well. |
| 07:51 |
|
|
Vandal joined #mojo |
| 08:01 |
|
tempire |
Might want to say "Mojolicious is event-driven, and was the first web framework…" |
| 08:01 |
|
tempire |
since event-driven is schnazzle |
| 08:09 |
|
crab |
i wonder if anyone wants commercial support for mojolicious. |
| 08:11 |
|
marcus |
crab: Well, we have at least two commercial customers with deployed mojolicious solutions, and we do provide them with support, on a perl-hour basis. |
| 08:12 |
|
marcus |
per-hour!#$%!# freudian slip |
| 08:15 |
|
* marcus |
puts on his Freudian slippers. |
| 08:16 |
|
crab |
sweet. |
| 08:17 |
|
sri |
marcus: the generate line is wrong |
| 08:17 |
|
sri |
lite_app Foo |
| 08:18 |
|
sri |
there are no classes, you just generate a script |
| 08:18 |
|
marcus |
sri: well, it works on osx ;-) |
| 08:18 |
|
sri |
lite_app foo.pl; morbo foo.pl |
| 08:18 |
|
sri |
-.- |
| 08:18 |
|
|
berov joined #mojo |
| 08:18 |
|
marcus |
sri: https://gist.github.com/1619720 |
| 08:19 |
|
sri |
that works everywhere :) |
| 08:20 |
|
sri |
marcus: typos too? |
| 08:20 |
|
marcus |
sri: it's on a gist, feel free to fix them directly? |
| 08:21 |
|
sri |
i can only fork or comment |
| 08:21 |
|
marcus |
oh |
| 08:21 |
|
marcus |
fork it? :) |
| 08:21 |
|
marcus |
sounds fun |
| 08:23 |
|
sri |
anyway, "real-time", "WebSockets", and HTML5 is not mentioned |
| 08:23 |
|
crab |
sigh. bootstrap 2.0 looks a lot nicer than 1.x. |
| 08:24 |
|
sri |
gotta mention Mojo::DOM somehow |
| 08:24 |
|
sri |
mentioning a number for plugins is not very future proof |
| 08:24 |
|
crab |
yes, the fact that mojo's vision of a web framework includes a client is quite distinctive |
| 08:24 |
|
marcus |
sri: mentioned web sockets under latest web schnazzle |
| 08:24 |
|
sri |
it's WebSockets |
| 08:25 |
|
sri |
not "web sockets" |
| 08:25 |
|
marcus |
-.- |
| 08:25 |
|
sri |
;p |
| 08:26 |
|
crab |
it's "The WebSocket Protocol", not "WebSockets" ;-p |
| 08:26 |
|
sri |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebSocket |
| 08:27 |
|
crab |
ok, WebSocket then. |
| 08:28 |
|
marcus |
WebSprockets |
| 08:28 |
|
* marcus |
stabs Opera for zealous caching |
| 08:28 |
|
sri |
WetSocks |
| 08:31 |
|
|
d4rkie joined #mojo |
| 08:32 |
|
sri |
besides mentioning numbers that quickly change it looks good otherwise |
| 08:36 |
|
* cosimo |
points marcus to Opera preferences |
| 08:37 |
|
marcus |
cosimo: the problem is, I'm uploading a new avatar, and Opera keeps caching it. can't make users update their preferences. |
| 08:48 |
|
sri |
oh, already the last episode of sherlock :( |
| 08:59 |
|
cosimo |
marcus: i feel your pain |
| 08:59 |
|
cosimo |
i guess you've already checked max-age, expires: and all that stuff |
| 09:00 |
|
cosimo |
marcus: is your avatar served by a redirect, by any chance? |
| 09:13 |
|
|
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| 09:14 |
|
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batman joined #mojo |
| 09:16 |
|
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| 09:37 |
|
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| 10:06 |
|
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| 10:57 |
|
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| 10:59 |
|
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| 11:10 |
|
sri |
marcus: don't forget to post your answers |
| 11:11 |
|
sri |
should "hot upgrades" be "hot deployment"? |
| 11:12 |
|
sri |
i usually just say "zero downtime software upgrades" or "hot deployment" |
| 11:12 |
|
marcus |
sri: already posted :) |
| 11:13 |
|
sri |
marcus++ |
| 11:22 |
|
* crab |
ponders ivo welch |
| 11:23 |
|
marcus |
http://www.ivo-welch.info/ ? |
| 11:23 |
|
crab |
marcus: yes. or a number of recent mojo list posts. |
| 11:24 |
|
marcus |
crab: iaw? |
| 11:26 |
|
crab |
yes. |
| 11:28 |
|
marcus |
I kind of agree with him on the unboxing page, it can be confusing for a newbie. |
| 11:29 |
|
sri |
crab: render_static is only relative to public though |
| 11:29 |
|
marcus |
maybe we could get some numbers or something there to indicate more content. |
| 11:30 |
|
crab |
sri: i'll clarify in a followup. |
| 11:32 |
|
sri |
crab: the documentation for it is also very specific though, shouldn't be hard to figure out |
| 11:35 |
|
sri |
crab: you actually can render files outside the public directory, but the path needs to be relative xD |
| 11:35 |
|
sri |
http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mo[…]ler#render_static |
| 11:38 |
|
crab |
yes, i know. i use it that way myself. |
| 11:38 |
|
marcus |
there's also a render bug in chrome for the brand new page - http://nordaaker.com/docs/skit[…]120116-123736.jpg |
| 11:38 |
|
crab |
but "meant to be used with files in the public directory" is ok. |
| 11:38 |
|
* sri |
nods |
| 11:39 |
|
marcus |
actually, it renders like that in safari as well. |
| 11:39 |
|
sri |
not here |
| 11:39 |
|
purl |
not here is probably Europe |
| 11:40 |
|
marcus |
weird |
| 11:41 |
|
crab |
oh, i guess iaw wants /welcome to be / |
| 11:42 |
|
crab |
i think that would be fairly sensible, actually. |
| 11:42 |
|
sri |
then we could just as well get rid of the dev 404 |
| 11:44 |
|
sri |
i'm ok with that, as long as there's a pretty replacement that makes more sense in its place |
| 11:44 |
|
crab |
i think it would be ok to make the dev 404 be just the "would you like to add a route for it?" bit. |
| 11:44 |
|
crab |
so going to / shows you the templated stuff, and going to anything else tells you exactly how to proceed. |
| 11:44 |
|
* sri |
disagrees |
| 11:44 |
|
sri |
on its own it is ugly |
| 11:45 |
|
crab |
oh. |
| 11:45 |
|
sri |
we would need something new imo |
| 11:45 |
|
marcus |
I think there's room for improvement, but I agree with sri. |
| 11:46 |
|
marcus |
any other frameworks we can "borrow" some inspiration from? :) |
| 11:46 |
|
crab |
marcus: you think leaving the current dev 404 page and changing /welcome to / is bad? |
| 11:46 |
|
crab |
or you think taking only the middle part of the dev 404 page is bad? |
| 11:47 |
|
marcus |
crab: only taking the middle part. |
| 11:47 |
|
crab |
ok |
| 11:48 |
|
marcus |
play's root page - http://nordaaker.com/docs/skit[…]120116-124753.jpg |
| 11:48 |
|
|
briang joined #mojo |
| 11:48 |
|
sri |
one thing i will not allow is stealing designs from another framework |
| 11:49 |
|
sri |
i know dancer does it, but i think that's below our standards |
| 11:50 |
|
sri |
that said, a less artsy and more informative approach sure makes sense |
| 11:53 |
|
sri |
something closer to the dev 500 page |
| 11:53 |
|
marcus |
sri: didn't mean to steal their design, more to look at their ideas. |
| 11:53 |
|
sri |
maybe even reusing the mojobar |
| 11:53 |
|
marcus |
I actually think your designs are better. |
| 11:54 |
|
sri |
marcus: sure, just wanted to make that point clear :) |
| 11:54 |
|
crab |
i shall design a super-informative and super-ugly page! |
| 11:55 |
|
marcus |
"design" :) |
| 11:55 |
|
marcus |
crab: I hope you will use traditional indian colors. |
| 11:56 |
|
* marcus |
loves him some pastel colors. |
| 11:56 |
|
crab |
yes, black... and white! |
| 11:56 |
|
sri |
if you start with the perldoc browser design it should be pretty hard to mess up |
| 12:03 |
|
sri |
hmm |
| 12:03 |
|
sri |
http://mojolicio.us/perldoc # would a page like this with instructions make sense as a dev 404? |
| 12:03 |
|
crab |
sri: btw, i just saw in my lastlog your question about using bootstrap. |
| 12:04 |
|
crab |
i like bootstrap already at 1.4.0, and the sneak peek of 2.0 just makes me like it more. |
| 12:04 |
|
marcus |
I agree, I think Nordaaker will standardize on bootstrap as a basis for our stuff. |
| 12:05 |
|
marcus |
it has a lot of momentum now. |
| 12:07 |
|
sri |
crab: well, for mojolicious core it doesn't make that much sense atm though |
| 12:07 |
|
crab |
fair enough. i was just making a general observation on bootstrap. |
| 12:08 |
|
sri |
i think we all agree on that observation :) |
| 12:11 |
|
sri |
crab: did i understand you right and you're now preparing a more informative 404 dev page? |
| 12:11 |
|
|
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| 12:13 |
|
|
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| 12:15 |
|
sri |
i'm not really in the right mindset for design, but i can prepare an empty sekelton resembling a perldoc page if you need it |
| 12:18 |
|
|
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| 12:22 |
|
sri |
https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/263 |
| 12:23 |
|
marcus |
I would like something more similar to the production 500 page. |
| 12:23 |
|
marcus |
:D |
| 12:24 |
|
sri |
the old marcus switcheroo ;p |
| 12:25 |
|
marcus |
was kidding. |
| 12:25 |
|
sri |
i know. |
| 12:25 |
|
* marcus |
redesigns startsiden ws client to use callbacks instead of horrific ioloop in ioloop |
| 12:28 |
|
crab |
sri: yes, you understood me right, and yes, that would be very useful |
| 12:37 |
|
|
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| 12:38 |
|
sri |
crab: i'll create a branch with the skeleton |
| 12:42 |
|
|
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| 13:10 |
|
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| 13:12 |
|
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| 13:15 |
|
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| 13:27 |
|
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| 13:35 |
|
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GitHub169 joined #mojo |
| 13:35 |
|
GitHub169 |
[mojo] kraih created not_found (+1 new commit): http://git.io/UKPpmQ |
| 13:35 |
|
GitHub169 |
[mojo/not_found] added skeleton for new development mode not_found page - Sebastian Riedel |
| 13:35 |
|
|
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| 13:35 |
|
sri |
crab: now it's your turn :) |
| 13:38 |
|
sri |
i left the exception tests failing, so you don't forget to update them |
| 13:44 |
|
ZadYree |
hi comrades |
| 13:45 |
|
ZadYree |
let's kill every humans |
| 13:45 |
|
crab |
i think not. |
| 13:46 |
|
crab |
who will worship us then? cockroaches? |
| 13:47 |
|
ZadYree |
not on my life, I hate this commutiny |
| 13:47 |
|
sri |
COMMUTINY! |
| 13:48 |
|
marcus |
tiny commies? |
| 13:51 |
|
sri |
https://github.com/perl-doc-cats/perlfaq/pull/24 # and it goes even further off the rails |
| 13:51 |
|
sri |
why link to pretty framework websites when you can also link to an ugly wiki! |
| 13:51 |
|
memowe |
urgs |
| 13:53 |
|
ZadYree |
tiny commits |
| 13:57 |
|
|
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| 14:06 |
|
|
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| 14:11 |
|
crab |
now, why did i think there was a "req" helper? |
| 14:16 |
|
|
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| 14:24 |
|
sri |
marcus: maybe not a bad idea if you posted more screenshots of welcome pages now :) |
| 14:25 |
|
memowe |
AOL |
| 14:25 |
|
sri |
not AOL |
| 14:25 |
|
memowe |
? |
| 14:25 |
|
memowe |
Sure! |
| 14:25 |
|
memowe |
AOL eq 'add me' |
| 14:26 |
|
crab |
"add me"? i always thought it meant "me too" |
| 14:27 |
|
memowe |
crab: I think, it means "me too" too, but AFAIR the original translation was something like "add me". |
| 14:28 |
|
memowe |
But "me too" eq "add me" in this context. |
| 14:28 |
|
sri |
AOL = America Online |
| 14:28 |
|
* crab |
adds up memowe, and gets one (1) memowe. |
| 14:28 |
|
memowe |
sri: and AOL users were famous for their "add me". |
| 14:28 |
|
crab |
sri: AOL users were famous for saying "me too" |
| 14:30 |
|
crab |
memowe: both the jargon file and wikipedia mention me too but not add me |
| 14:30 |
|
memowe |
really? Then it's true. |
| 14:31 |
|
memowe |
I thought it was originally something like "add me to your friend list". |
| 14:31 |
|
crab |
no no. this was back in the usenet days, when they would reply to posts with just "me too" |
| 14:31 |
|
crab |
there were no friend lists on usenet (only enemy lists :-) |
| 14:32 |
|
memowe |
AOL users used the usenet? |
| 14:32 |
|
crab |
suddenly i feel very old. |
| 14:32 |
|
memowe |
I mean, yes, usenet is where I know AOL from. But never thought it came from AOL users INSIDE the usenet. |
| 14:33 |
|
memowe |
I actually felt very young when I saw usenet for the first time. |
| 14:39 |
|
|
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| 14:55 |
|
sri |
http://www.ibm.com/developerwo[…]-django/fig01.jpg |
| 14:56 |
|
sri |
https://support.eapps.com/eapp[…]_riding_rails.png |
| 14:57 |
|
memowe |
"Get to work"-- |
| 14:57 |
|
crab |
aol |
| 14:57 |
|
crab |
i find that very rude. |
| 14:58 |
|
|
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| 14:58 |
|
memowe |
I'm thinking about writing a command to generate a bootylite skeleton. What do you think is better? |
| 14:58 |
|
memowe |
bootylite.pl generate |
| 14:58 |
|
memowe |
or |
| 14:58 |
|
memowe |
mojo generate bootylite |
| 14:59 |
|
crab |
bootylite.pl generate, i think |
| 14:59 |
|
crab |
the other is a bit too confusing potentially |
| 14:59 |
|
memowe |
Maybe. But less polluting. |
| 15:00 |
|
memowe |
And I have often issues with morbo bootylite.pl not using ./bootylite.pl |
| 15:02 |
|
memowe |
bbl |
| 15:02 |
|
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| 15:05 |
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| 15:06 |
|
crab |
hm. |
| 15:06 |
|
crab |
not_found.development.html.ep isn't the right place for a welcome-to-mojolicious message. |
| 15:06 |
|
|
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| 15:07 |
|
crab |
and maybe what /welcome serves isn't right for a new / either, judging by what ror/django/etc. serve. |
| 15:18 |
|
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| 15:23 |
|
sri |
crab: what should a not_found.development say? |
| 15:25 |
|
sri |
if you're suggesting to include a welcome page into the generated skeletons then i'm very much aggainst that |
| 15:25 |
|
sri |
it only makes them messy and we would have to maintain them in two places |
| 15:27 |
|
sri |
also, i couldn't care less what other frameworks serve, all that matters is what's best for *our* users |
| 15:29 |
|
sri |
nobody else has lite and normal apps, we are in a unique position |
| 15:30 |
|
sri |
please don't try to copy what the others have, just make something better |
| 15:33 |
|
crab |
i am not suggesting that. i don't like that idea at all either. |
| 15:33 |
|
sri |
http://acko.net/blog/making-love-to-webkit/ # instead take a look at this :) |
| 15:35 |
|
crab |
i did already, but my browser doesn't do 3d transforms :-( |
| 15:35 |
|
sri |
aww |
| 15:35 |
|
crab |
stupid ATI video card isn't supported. |
| 15:38 |
|
sri |
crab/marcus/tempire: what should the development not_found page say? |
| 15:38 |
|
|
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| 15:39 |
|
crab |
i'm writing what i think it should say now. will finish it tomorrow morning (must sleep now). |
| 15:40 |
|
crab |
anything said between now and then on channel will be taken into consideration before i commit. |
| 15:40 |
|
sri |
ok |
| 15:40 |
|
sri |
it's a branch, just commit |
| 15:40 |
|
sri |
will get squashed before merge anyway |
| 15:41 |
|
crab |
i hate squashing |
| 15:41 |
|
crab |
but ok |
| 15:41 |
|
sri |
i hate countless unsquashed mini commits for one change :) |
| 15:42 |
|
sri |
nobody really cares how a feature evolved, all that matters is the final version |
| 15:47 |
|
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| 15:49 |
|
Netfeed |
i hate when your looking for the person that "owns" the change and it's drowned in a "super commit" |
| 15:50 |
|
Netfeed |
you're |
| 15:53 |
|
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| 15:54 |
|
sri |
and the alternative is to have people delay commits to feature branches because they are not certain yet |
| 15:55 |
|
sri |
which in turn delays the work of everyone else |
| 15:56 |
|
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GitHub65 |
[mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to not_found: http://git.io/DIj12g |
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GitHub65 |
[mojo/not_found] removed some more legacy code - Sebastian Riedel |
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xaka |
can we have direct ref to current connection's stream instead of Mojo::IOLoop->stream($self->tx->connection)? like $c->tx->stream. That could prevent from import and using global Mojo::IOLoop. |
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ccushing |
outside of 'has' are there any known issues with using Moose in a Mojo object? |
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ccushing |
and would anything be lost by not importing has? |
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sri |
https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/263 # these questions need to be discussed |
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diegok |
sri: not_found in devel mode shouldn't list defined routes? |
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sri |
diegok: i don't know, make a proposal in the discussion |
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diegok |
ok, I'm also not sure.. but it's the only thing I can think about it right now. Will comment on the issue. |
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sri |
diegok: and most importantly, how can routes be displayed on a html page? |
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diegok |
sri: I see bridges list depending routes with a + on a list... which can of routes also has special display using command 'routes'? |
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diegok |
s/can/kind/ |
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sri |
diegok: it would actually work |
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sri |
just wrote it in like 10 lines |
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sri |
http://twitpic.com/88452a/full # this works too |
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sri |
more of a development tool |
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marcus |
Sri: I like that.. |
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marcus |
Very useful development 404. |
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ccushing |
is there any way to compoles Role's with Mojo? |
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GitHub107 |
[mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to not_found: http://git.io/fCU1kA |
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GitHub107 |
[mojo/not_found] added list of routes to not_found template - Sebastian Riedel |
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sri |
marcus: you're welcome to help with polishing :) |
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sri |
i've also added the mojobar for dev exceptions, not 100% sure about that yet |
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diegok |
sri: I doubt also on the bar. Perhaps just a little example like the current one and links pointing to the right docs on how to create that missing route. |
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sri |
diegok: i think you're misunderstanding |
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diegok |
probably :) |
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sri |
for not_found i'm quite certain about the mojobar |
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sri |
just exception not 100% |
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diegok |
ok :) |
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sri |
not_found would be lost without the bar |
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sri |
also no idea how what crab is writing will fit in there |
| 23:02 |
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sri |
too much additional text could have a negative impact |
| 23:03 |
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diegok |
current one isn't so helpful but I really like how it looks :) |
| 23:03 |
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sri |
http://twitpic.com/886ash/full |
| 23:04 |
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diegok |
I would just replace the box for the reutes and keep de current one :p |
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tempire_ |
I dig the twitpic |
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tempire_ |
ack |
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sri |
exception template got tuned a bit, same dimensions as all other templates and the bar |
| 23:08 |
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diegok |
I'm not a big fan of the mojobar on dev I think... :-p |
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sri |
diegok: you're welcome to design something better |
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sri |
that's what the discussion and branch are for |
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* ccushing |
trying to figure out how to override the default not_found and where :/ tried subclassing Controller but that didn't work |
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diegok |
sri: :) |
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ccushing |
either that or at least figure out how to make it so that it actually requests .json when requesting .json |
| 23:17 |
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ccushing |
instead of always defaulting to .html |
| 23:17 |
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ccushing |
ugh |
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ccushing |
also tried subclassing Mojolicious and using that |
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xaka |
ccushing: take a look at "after_dispatch" hook, the only usable way i've found some time ago |
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tempire |
ccushing: you can also just place an appropriately named file in templates |
