Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2012-01-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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02:03 * tempire is a state machine
02:24 tempire oh, sri: I also added "HiLink MojoRoute                perlType" to epl.vpm
02:24 tempire so lite routes are the pretty orange
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02:50 * tempire wishes ConqueTerm worked in his vim session
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03:09 tempire woah!
03:09 tempire every vim user should install the conqueterm plugin
03:09 tempire go go go!
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07:36 tempire really happy with google's sub links for mojocasts
07:37 marcus If you're happy and you know it beat your chest!
07:40 * tempire knocks himself over
07:41 tempire does anyone here practice strict TDD with mojolicious?
07:41 marcus I practice strict BDSM with mojolicious.
07:44 tempire what about json_has/pointers?
07:44 tempire I want to include it in the mojocast about testing
07:44 tempire but it's experimental...
07:45 marcus tempire: kinky.
07:46 marcus tempire: it has worked well for me, and I'm hoping we can take the 'experimental' label off, but it's up to sri.
07:46 marcus I'm even using it at $customer to let them configure which fields from a solr result to include in a wikipedia search.
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07:54 * marcus phears http://search.cpan.org/~dhoss/​Grimlock-0.001/lib/Grimlock.pm
08:01 * tempire waits for grimlock to install
08:03 * tempire waits
08:05 marcus tempire: you mean you  don't have cpan installed?
08:05 tempire only half
08:06 tempire I skipped over Catalyst::Component::InstancePerContext the first time around
08:06 tempire what was I thinking
08:07 destrier I've had warnings about catalyst getting upset with perl threads - is this true of mojolicious as well?
08:08 marcus destrier: try it and report back to us :)
08:08 marcus destrier: why do you have perls in your threads?
08:08 marcus or the other way around.
08:08 purl i heard the other way around was not better
08:08 * tempire wonders why anyone would use perl threads for web dev
08:11 destrier marcus: I'm trying to figure out how to cut down response time from 0.4s - this seems to be caused by a shell utility that I call (haven't profiled but it's a pretty good guess), but depending on what task that shell component is slow on, sending it to a detached thread might speed things up a little overall
08:12 destrier the downside would be not being able to tell requesting client the result of the operation :/
08:13 marcus destrier: why not just queue it in a database and run it as a cron job then?
08:13 marcus seems cleaner than messing with threads
08:13 marcus or just use fork
08:13 tempire or something like gearman
08:14 tempire load the page, then poll for results using an ajax request.
08:14 tempire and distract the user with a pretty rotating rainbow
08:19 marcus web sockets!
08:19 purl web sockets is a new html5 thing. Just skip it for now.
08:19 marcus :-o
08:19 tempire does everything support them yet?
08:19 tempire I lost track
08:19 marcus no
08:19 tempire boo
08:20 tempire dernit
08:20 tempire my catalyst installation is messed up
08:20 * tempire loses interest in grimlock
08:24 tempire catalyst and associates definitely do not like -j9
08:25 destrier thanks marcus and tempire - I'm sure I'll be revisiting rotating beachballs and such
08:26 marcus rotating beachballs of DEATH!
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08:28 Andrei666 hey guys
08:29 Andrei666 could somebody help me with a websocket thing...?
08:32 marcus purl: ask to ask?
08:32 purl Don't ask to ask or ask if there are any users of X around, people often don't respond to that because they've used X but maybe not the same features as you. Instead, skip straight to your question + pastebot link and if somebody knows they'll probably try and help or if you don't get a response straight away, hang about - people may be working or asleep right now.
08:32 marcus purl: ask to ask ask?
08:32 purl Don't ask to ask ask. Don't ask if ask can help you with x. Just ask ask! If ask doesn't answer, then rest assured that it's not that he doesn't know but that it's specifically because he doesn't like you.
08:33 Andrei666 :D
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08:36 Andrei666 i'm trying to implement the websocket example from a mojo lite app to a non lite app...i know it's the same...but ..my question is...in the controller...should I specify "websocket '/' => sub {..." or it should be like a "sub ws_sub { websocket'/' ... " ?
08:38 marcus Andrei666: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojol​icious/Guides/Routing#WebSockets
08:39 marcus yay for good docs? :)
08:44 Andrei666 marcus: yes...indeed ...yay for good docs :D
08:45 Andrei666 one more question though...
08:46 Andrei666 joined #mojo
08:46 Andrei666 back..
08:46 Andrei666 so..
08:46 Andrei666 where should the line "$r->websocket...." go?
08:49 tempire in ->startup
08:50 tempire if you're using a full mojolicious app
08:50 tempire http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/​Mojolicious/Lite#WebSockets if you're using lite
08:50 Andrei666 alright...
08:50 Andrei666 thank you
08:52 Andrei666 i keep getting this error...and i don't know...where the problem really is
08:52 Andrei666 Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at ws://10.1.9.217:8080/.
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09:35 Andrei666 i keep getting this error...Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at ws://10.1.9.217:8080 in a mojo app...
09:35 Andrei666 why is this?
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12:21 sri damn
12:22 sri i almost wanted to readd css4 selector subject support to Mojo::DOM, since the spec didn't change in a few months
12:22 sri but 3 days ago they started another discussion about which character to use...
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12:25 sri marcus/tempire: you both want json pointers stable?
12:27 marcus Yy
12:31 sri are you sure?
12:31 purl You still have ALL THREE lifelines left!
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12:37 sri we might also want to consider making websockets stable
12:37 sri considering it's an rfc now
12:38 sri json_is too?
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12:49 GitHub109 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/A_eCag
12:49 GitHub109 [mojo/master] removed experimental status from WebSocket and JSON Pointer support - Sebastian Riedel
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12:50 sri this is kind of big
12:50 sri all of Test::Mojo is now stable
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12:53 marcus Time to add more features :)
12:54 sri please review the api
12:55 sri we differ a bit from the official websocket api, send_message/finish instead of send/close
12:56 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojo​licious/Controller#send_message # also note the [binary => $bytes] api
12:58 sri we do also have lower level apis though, with send_frame and the on(frame) event
12:58 sri which the spec does not cover
13:05 sri hmm, unless there are comments i think i'll make websockets experimental again
13:12 paul sri: my only comment is that for some reason i didn't seem to get cookies in my websocket controller, but i haven't debugged it yet
13:13 paul and i'll get on that
13:13 paul not exactly related ;)
13:17 sri i take that as an argument for making it experimental again, i'm sure those that want to use websockets in their applications will thank you
13:23 paul sri: if it's a problem with mojo and not me that is, and i'm not so confident about that
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13:51 sri well, bringing up a potential bug is kind of a worst case in a discussion about making a feature stable
13:51 sri in fact, now i'm reverting the whole commit
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13:52 GitHub164 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/oOnpuQ
13:52 GitHub164 [mojo/master] Revert "removed experimental status from WebSocket and JSON Pointer support" - Sebastian Riedel
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13:53 sri i'd love to make json pointers stable, but the spec is still not stable and we've had almost no feedback on it
13:55 sri marcus/tempire: what would we do if the json pointer spec changes again?
13:55 marcus sri: ignore them, it's perfect ;)
13:56 * marcus wonders if anyone else have even implemented json pointers
13:57 crab yes.
13:57 sri couchbase uses them
13:57 sri and there are implementations for all languages
13:57 crab node and php have implementations, at least.
13:57 crab ruby too, i think.
13:57 crab that's all languages, right? :-)
13:58 sri all that count for web dev ;p
14:00 crab almost the only way the json pointer draft can go is downwards.
14:00 crab unless the authors are stubborn enough to tell all the gripers to get lost, rather than changing the draft to make them happier.
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15:33 * sri just remembered he wanted to add support for more websocket flags
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15:51 GitHub44 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/b4r9xQ
15:51 GitHub44 [mojo/master] added experimental support for RSV1-3 flags to Mojo::Transaction::WebSocket - Sebastian Riedel
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15:52 sri those flags are for protocol extensions
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16:03 * marcus waves the websocket flag
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16:05 crab boy, everyone here hates norway now.
16:08 sven^ is there an easy way to run Mojolicious together with an existing apache?
16:08 sven^ (without using a different port than :80)
16:09 crab sure. use cgi, fastcgi, whatever.
16:10 sri crab: what was your stance on making json pointers stable again?
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16:12 crab sri: don't care much, either way. they're useful enough for testing that people are going to use them as-is, no matter how they're marked.
16:12 sri :S
16:13 sri that's a don't care from you and me, yay from marcus and possibly a yay from tempire too
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16:14 crab the weights have spoken!
16:23 marcus sri: tempire wants to talk about them in his screencast.
16:23 marcus which would probably be a bad idea if they are experimental
16:23 sri yea
16:24 sri marcus: so to you the risk of spec changes is acceptable?
16:24 marcus personally for me it would not be a huge burden to update the place I use jso.npointers if it changes, but I also want to talk about them in my next presentation. (through mojo get)
16:24 sri do we break backcompat or rename it to "kinda json pointers" in case it happens?
16:25 crab i think it's unlikely that changes to the spec will be not-backwards-compatible. but even if they are, we can decide if we want to update to support them at all.
16:25 marcus yeah, I think it depends on what the change is.
16:25 sri always expect worst case :)
16:26 marcus in this case, I don't think spec compliance would matter to most people.
16:26 crab no need to rename, even. if something that bad happens, we could just say that we don't support the newer versions of the spec, in the same place that the experimental warning is now.
16:26 crab marcus: agreed.
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16:28 marcus are there any differences between draft-pbryan-zyp-json-pointer-02 and draft-ietf-appsawg-json-pointer-00?
16:29 crab yes
16:30 crab but not functional ones
16:30 marcus all the examples seem to be the same.
16:31 bjones should i report an issue with Test::Mojo on github?
16:31 marcus bjones: try it and find out?
16:31 marcus ;)
16:31 crab bjones: do you have something to report, or are you asking in the larger sense?
16:31 crab ;-)
16:32 crab you should probably mention it here first, in case it's not a real problem it might save you the time.
16:33 bjones _request_ok seems broken to me, reports success for 500 internal server error
16:33 bjones the issue is $ok is never false
16:33 bjones since code is always, well, true
16:33 bjones for an error
16:34 bjones i have a suggestion to fix it i'll just finish the issue
16:36 bjones https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/276
16:36 marcus bjones: you shouldn't be using _request_ok directly. It's not even documented.
16:36 bjones i use get_ok
16:36 bjones i'm just reporting where the issue is
16:45 marcus sri: any thoughts about it? Seems he's right, and that _request_ok ignores $tx->error?
16:53 sri marcus: how can you say he's right without a test case?
16:53 marcus sri: I made a test app
16:54 sri please add the test case to the issue
16:54 marcus added a die, and confirmed that status_is says 500, but get_ok fails
16:54 marcus I mean it passes
16:55 marcus not sure how we can test that get_ok triggers in a unit test.
16:55 marcus without that test failing.
16:55 sri ok, i think you might be misunderstanding get_ok
16:55 sri 500 is considered a success
16:55 marcus sri: what is considered a failure then?
16:56 sri error without response code i suppose
16:56 marcus sri: I just saw that $tx->success considers 500 a failure, and assumed that get_ok would be the same.
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16:57 sri how would you ever test a 404 then?
16:57 sri or that your 500 page works?
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16:57 crab i actually depend on get_ok for 404/500 pages
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16:57 sri we have like a few hundred unit tests that depend on it, don't worry :)
16:58 marcus maybe we can improve the docs for get_ok
17:00 marcus sri: I added a suggestion to the github issue.
17:00 sri bjones" i don't quite get how our unit tests could pass with the change you suggested
17:00 sri s/"/:/
17:02 marcus bjones: you can use status_is(200) to check for internal server errors, btw.
17:04 sri marcus: that's also not true
17:04 sri (your doc suggestion)
17:04 marcus sri: well, your use of 'success' now is rather misleading.
17:04 sri *my* use of success?
17:05 marcus yes, in the existing documentation for get_ok
17:05 sri then make it better without telling a lie!
17:07 sri i've not chosen a generic term arbitrarily
17:08 marcus sri: but the defintion of success differs from that of Mojo::UserAgent::get, which this pod refers to, so the term is defined differently.
17:09 sri i don't see it that way
17:09 marcus sri: but I thought you just said that any response with a status code will be a success, how is my doc improvement a lie?
17:09 sri any error without a code is considered a fail
17:09 marcus would you consider ' Note that a response is considered
17:09 marcus success as long as we get back a status code'
17:09 marcus correct?
17:09 sri no matter if there's a response or not
17:10 sri not correct
17:10 sri the wonders of async, at any given time shit can go very wrong
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17:13 * marcus tries again -  Don't expect this to test for server error responses.
17:16 sri not false but almost as ambiguous as "success"
17:18 marcus 'The cake is a lie'
17:18 sri "Perform a C<GET> request and check for transport errors, takes the exact same arguments as L<Mojo::UserAgent/"get">."
17:18 marcus good
17:22 sri oh c'mon github bot….
17:22 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/d4​dd5130af16ab9077af860fe23f7d72f85fadea
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17:24 GitHub180 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ooo3wA
17:24 GitHub180 [mojo/master] make Test::Mojo documentation more marcus compliant - Sebastian Riedel
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17:28 sven^ could anyone point me to some documentaion how I can configure my apache so some.tld/mojo gets handled by my mojolicious-script?
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17:38 sri tempire: any plans to use websockets in an upcoming screencast too?
17:45 sri of course, there are other specs depending on json pointers
17:45 sri http://tools.ietf.org/html/​draft-pbryan-json-patch-04
17:45 sri that should make huge changes less likely
17:47 crab event-source seems pretty neat. i'm going to start using that while waiting for websockets.
17:48 sri it's pretty good, if you can ignore IE
17:48 crab there's a .js shim anyway
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17:50 GitHub83 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/SeVveQ
17:50 GitHub83 [mojo/master] removed experimental status from JSON Pointer support - Sebastian Riedel
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17:50 sri marcus/tempire: this one is on you two ;p
17:50 crab anyone tried backbone/ember?
17:51 sri bet marcus did
18:10 sri still wonder if send_message() should be renamed to just send()
18:13 bjones sri: marcus: thanks for the doc update
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18:26 Mad_Dud hi guys. i just switched to mojo from catalyst. now I try to figure out where is model component in mojolicious? how to handle databases here?
18:28 marty sven^: that is more of apache than mojo question.  But, you probably want to look at reverse proxy.  http://www.apachetutor.org/admin/reverseproxies
18:29 marty Mad_Dud:  Mojolicous is database agnostic. You can easily use whatever you like.
18:32 marty sven^: also, running behind Apache is certainly not optimal.  If at all possible, try and use the production ready web server in mojolicous; Hypnotoad.
18:33 marty a-l-l-g-l-o-r-y-t-o-t-h-e-h-y-p-n-o-t-o-a-d
18:35 tempire marty: catalyst docs give the impression that a plugin is required to access the database, but it's not really.  just connect to it in an attribute: https://gist.github.com/1705854
18:35 tempire er, I meant Mad_Dud ^
18:36 Mad_Dud tempire: so i put it in controller calls?
18:36 tempire no, in the App.pm
18:36 tempire are you using lite or full?
18:36 Mad_Dud full
18:36 tempire put it in the App.pm
18:36 tempire then access it from the controller as $self->app->dbh
18:37 Mad_Dud do you know any open source, which uses mojo and mysql? i would really like to see an example of it.
18:38 tempire here's an example: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wi​ki/Hypnotoad-prefork-web-server
18:39 Mad_Dud thank you very much.
18:39 Mad_Dud tempire++ marty++
18:40 tempire I'm sold on ctrlp
18:41 tempire sri: I'm not ready to do a mojocast on web sockets quite yet
18:42 tempire To be clear, though, I won't put anything that's experimental in a screencast.
18:43 tempire I haven't used ison pointers, so I can't specifically vouch for them.  I'd like to put it in the cast about testing, because it's such a useful thing, though.
18:43 tempire the db question comes up a lot, so I'm thinking about doing a db-themed cast
18:43 tempire I'm not sure what to include in it, though.
18:43 tempire connecting to a db in the right place….but what else?
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18:52 r0b3rt How to store database handle, how to access database handle in controller, how to read database connection info from a file.
18:55 tempire trouble is, that's not enough to fill a screencast, as they've only covered lite thus far.  A cast on a full app would have to come first.
18:55 tempire and before I go full, I want to cover all the basic topics.
18:56 tempire unless there's more to be covered in a db cast, I think testing will have to be the next one.
18:56 tempire especially to focus on the fact that testing should be part of building an app, instead of an afterthought.
18:56 marcus tempire: show how to set up dbi, mongodb, dbix-class, redis? :)
18:56 marcus but I would prefer testing before db
18:56 tempire seems to me doing it before db enforces that fact.
18:56 tempire yeah
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18:57 GitHub61 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/jvSTWw
18:57 GitHub61 [mojo/master] document and test controller security - Sebastian Riedel
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19:01 GitHub115 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/2dvBaQ
19:01 GitHub115 [mojo/master] ensure that caching does not bypass controller security - Sebastian Riedel
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19:06 tempire Mad_Dud: here's another example:
19:07 tempire https://github.com/tempire/emp​ire/blob/master/lib/Nempire.pm, https://github.com/tempire/empire​/blob/master/lib/Nempire/Home.pm
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19:08 Mad_Dud tempire: thank you
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19:17 sri tempire: you could do something fun, like a json web service that forwards sql
19:18 tempire not sure what you mean by "forwards sql"
19:18 sri {"query": "select * from users"} -> [{"name": "sri"}, {"name": "tempire"}]
19:18 sri insanely dangerous, and fun
19:19 sri maybe mix in some authentication to make it less dangerous
19:19 tempire that sounds dangerously close to promoting the creation of an orm
19:19 sri and use get with json pointers to demonstrate it
19:19 tempire I wish I knew c# better.  I'd like to port massive to perl
19:20 tempire and call it passive
19:21 sri mojo get http://tempire:s3cr3t@127.0.0.1:3000/sql.json -c '{"query": "select * from users"}' /1
19:22 sri covers *a lot* of ground
19:24 tempire wait a second
19:24 tempire mojo get http://search.twitter.com/search.json /error
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19:24 tempire is that the json pointer support?
19:24 sri yea
19:24 tempire that is so awesome.
19:24 tempire :)
19:24 sri :)
19:25 sri twitter search is a great api for demonstrations
19:25 tempire what draft are we using?
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19:26 sri of what?
19:26 tempire there are multiple json pointer drafts, right?
19:26 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/M​ojo/JSON/Pointer#DESCRIPTION
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19:26 ZadYree http://media.fukung.net/images/25211/​2ed396860c23e43a4a13105ea44c7a20.gif
19:26 ZadYree zuhaha All glory to the Hypno Toad!
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20:07 marcus hmm, anyone know of a module for mocking smtp for test purposes?
20:07 marcus capturing mails from validation flows and such
20:31 alnewkirk sri: any thought on what I proposed yesterday about the generation on config files for common web servers?
20:31 sri alnewkirk: no
20:33 marcus isn't that very distribution specific?
20:33 * sri can't stop watching the hypnotoad gif
20:34 ZadYree hehe
20:34 ZadYree ok master I no cut ur legz
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20:36 marcus we need to write more to ALL HAIL THE HYPNOTOAD
20:54 tempire alnewkirk: sounds like a decent command plugin
20:55 tempire maybe a config command that retrieves customized configurations from some remote server
20:55 tempire although it's kind of the same thing as having it in the wiki
20:55 tempire might be a neat experiment, though
20:57 alnewkirk sri: no as in dont do it or you have no feeling one way or the other
20:59 sri alnewkirk: no feeling
21:02 sri wow, node.js gets new management
21:02 alnewkirk tempire: agreed, ... mojo generate config apache ... is alot easier than searching for the POD or wiki everytime I want to deploy
21:03 sri maybe you know much more than i do, but "mojo generate config apache" does look a bit naive to me
21:03 alnewkirk how so?
21:03 sri platforms, versions, deployment methods….
21:04 sri the cookbook for example contains mostly neutral parts of the config files
21:06 tempire yeah, I was thinking about allowing for options
21:06 tempire it could be a big project
21:06 tempire might be useful, though
21:07 alnewkirk sri: i dont think any of that is hard to abstract away
21:07 sri every other ubuntu release would require a new generator for example, no?
21:07 tempire by all means, if you want to do it, do it
21:07 alnewkirk mojo generate config apache --host=api.selfhost.com --as=cgiscript
21:07 alnewkirk ... or whatever
21:08 tempire I think it could be a great tool for newbies especially.  just like dbicadmin isn't really necessary, but it's great for one liners in tutorials
21:08 tempire that is, if the output is reliable enough
21:08 tempire with enough iterations
21:09 sri if you have the energy to do it, more power to you :)
21:09 alnewkirk sri: im curious though, its not yet obvious to me why the platform is important ... (something about different versions, ubuntu ..?)
21:10 sri because every distro has their own little config layout for every web server
21:10 sri and it tends to change between releases
21:11 alnewkirk im talking strickly template generation
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21:27 GitHub4 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/55s57A
21:27 GitHub4 [mojo/master] added x_forwarded_host and x_forwarded_https methods to Mojo::Headers - Sebastian Riedel
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21:40 GitHub23 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/pcLBzw
21:40 GitHub23 [mojo/master] added x_requested_with method to Mojo::Headers - Sebastian Riedel
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22:21 jmmills off topic: can anyone recommend a open source friendly web based slide-show/presentation site? Looking for something I can put easily put together slides and give links for so people can reference back to it after a talk...
22:27 sven^ marty: thanks. Right now I am using fastcgi, which seems to be almost what I want. The route for / is not working but all the others are. I think I'll have to use Apache since it is already in use
22:29 alnewkirk jmmills: say wah?
22:29 jmmills alnewkirk, think FOSS web based power point
22:30 alnewkirk sliderocket.com
22:30 alnewkirk ... is one
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22:42 sri marcus: looks like mlehmann is just ignoring the osx fix :(
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23:00 sri hmm, more and more success stories about sublime text 2
23:13 tempire seems pretty clear to me that sublime is on point to take over the text editing world
23:13 tempire just a matter of time
23:14 sri it still seems to suck for people actually writing extensions
23:14 tempire jmmills: google docs
23:14 purl somebody said google docs was one of the google apps.. its the word proc, spreadsheet, etc or a good choice though or rather annoying imo
23:14 sri if it doesn't allow me to edit my bundles i'm not gonna try it
23:15 tempire they're advancing so rapidly, I suspect they'll fix that soon enough
23:18 sri i'm waiting for months
23:18 tempire months!
23:19 tempire kind of like mongodb
23:19 tempire OH SNAP
23:19 * sri sets tempire on fire
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23:45 jmmills maybe I should just write a presentation app in mojo ;)
23:45 jmmills slideshow.pl
23:50 alnewkirk jmmills++
23:53 jmmills I need to setup a to do workflow for projects with no dead lines, so I can queue these "for fun" ideas I have
23:53 jmmills maybe, a personal ticket system :\
23:54 batman tried trello?
23:54 batman https://trello.com/
23:54 batman just a tip...
23:54 * batman need sleep

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