| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:09 |
|
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| 00:20 |
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| 00:25 |
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| 00:36 |
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| 00:40 |
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| 00:40 |
|
GitHub70 |
[mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/r0OoXw |
| 00:40 |
|
GitHub70 |
[mojo/master] fixed small relative URL detection bug in get command - Sebastian Riedel |
| 00:40 |
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| 00:41 |
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| 00:42 |
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| 00:42 |
|
Mikey |
g'evening everyone |
| 00:44 |
|
Mikey |
is there a way to tell mojo to serve other requests while doing things that block e.g. my @output = `nmap $host`; |
| 00:45 |
|
Mikey |
preferably from the context of a Mojolicious::Controller |
| 00:45 |
|
sri |
short answer: no |
| 00:46 |
|
sri |
long answer: you can configure hypnotoad to not do more than one client connection per worker process |
| 00:47 |
|
Mikey |
hm.. yeah.. i can also just background it and poll back for it later |
| 00:47 |
|
Mikey |
just wanted to know if there was an easy way :) thx |
| 00:48 |
|
sri |
the question comes up a lot, but so far nobody came up with a way to make it easy |
| 00:49 |
|
Mikey |
yeah i'm just gonna do system("nmap $host 2>&1 > /tmp/nmap.$uuid &"); .. then when a request comes w/ the uuid, and the file in /tmp is non zero, i'll just serve and unlink the tmp file |
| 00:50 |
|
* sri |
is playing with Mojo::UserAgent and Tor, it just works (with polipo) |
| 00:51 |
|
Mikey |
i donno if you're following but i've got a mojo app up and running on the cjdns darknet |
| 00:51 |
|
Mikey |
ipv6 is working well |
| 00:52 |
|
* sri |
has to look up what cjdns is |
| 00:52 |
|
Mikey |
https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns |
| 00:53 |
|
Mikey |
right now it's just a routing daemon and tun/tap interface conduit |
| 00:53 |
|
Mikey |
but it uses djb's NaCl for crypto and does packet/routing level encryption |
| 00:54 |
|
sri |
interesting |
| 00:54 |
|
Mikey |
its pretty sweet but there is no dns or anything so i'm building a mojo/mongodb system.. mongo will sit behind a mojo app server allowing administrative access, and i'll put a thin Net::DNS frontend on it to do name serving |
| 00:55 |
|
Mikey |
one of the coolest parts about cjdns is it gives us a node-level pki for free |
| 00:55 |
|
Mikey |
so i'm also going to work on getting Crypt::NaCl into CPAN |
| 00:56 |
|
Mikey |
a perl hacker's work is never done. |
| 00:56 |
|
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| 00:58 |
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| 01:06 |
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| 01:20 |
|
sri |
:) |
| 01:31 |
|
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| 01:39 |
|
tempire |
so the real issue is how to handle blocking processes without a huge separate setup |
| 01:40 |
|
tempire |
gear man is simple, but setting it up and interacting with it is an annoying learning curve |
| 01:40 |
|
tempire |
http://blog.und3f.com/redis-server-with-perl |
| 01:41 |
|
tempire |
wonder if something like that can be used to implement a simple job queue that could be easily exchanged for a more advanced solution |
| 01:43 |
|
tempire |
also, gear man xs doesn't always compile |
| 01:44 |
|
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| 01:48 |
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| 02:05 |
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| 02:11 |
|
crab |
mikey: are you cjdelisle? |
| 02:19 |
|
crab |
i wonder what to tell iaw4 |
| 02:31 |
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| 02:33 |
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| 03:16 |
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| 05:12 |
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| 06:55 |
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| 07:27 |
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| 07:54 |
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| 08:02 |
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| 08:04 |
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| 08:06 |
|
rhaen |
moin! |
| 08:17 |
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| 08:28 |
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| 08:34 |
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| 08:35 |
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| 09:01 |
|
tempire |
marcus: you agree with no tests? |
| 09:01 |
|
tempire |
I can't imagine that being a good idea |
| 09:02 |
|
tempire |
for perlbrew maybe |
| 09:02 |
|
tempire |
but not for individual modules |
| 09:02 |
|
marcus |
tempire: why not? |
| 09:02 |
|
marcus |
tempire: ruby and python does it |
| 09:02 |
|
crab |
ruby and python does what? |
| 09:02 |
|
marcus |
and we have much better distributed testing than they do |
| 09:02 |
|
marcus |
crab: install without testing |
| 09:02 |
|
tempire |
I don't know that I'd use python as an example. their module system is a mess. |
| 09:03 |
|
crab |
install modules? install the interpreter? |
| 09:03 |
|
tempire |
ruby, though…I have no response to that. |
| 09:03 |
|
marcus |
crab: modules |
| 09:04 |
|
tempire |
I suppose it really comes down to the author anyway |
| 09:04 |
|
marcus |
tempire: You would probably have tried grimloch if it wasn't for testing ;) |
| 09:04 |
|
tempire |
hmm |
| 09:04 |
|
marcus |
tempire: could make cpanm install without running tests by default. |
| 09:04 |
|
tempire |
it never even occurred to me to skip tests |
| 09:05 |
|
tempire |
actually, that wasn't the problem. it was that I tried to install deps using -j9 |
| 09:05 |
|
tempire |
and now it thinks a bunch of catalyst modules are installed, when they're not |
| 09:05 |
|
tempire |
and I don't know how to automate the reinstallation of them all, or the removal of them all |
| 09:06 |
|
crab |
after reading the grimlock documentation, i couldn't wait to try it out! |
| 09:07 |
|
tempire |
I suspect it's ugly |
| 09:07 |
|
tempire |
but never got to see it |
| 09:07 |
|
crab |
testing before installing modules has caaught a few nasty problems in the past for me |
| 09:07 |
|
tempire |
that's the trouble - it's not a big deal until it is |
| 09:07 |
|
tempire |
and then, holy crap |
| 09:10 |
|
tempire |
bah. gridlock is still having problems. |
| 09:10 |
|
tempire |
lulz. appropriate freudian slip. |
| 09:11 |
|
tempire |
for the common user, though…maybe it would be ok. |
| 09:11 |
|
tempire |
how often does the common user want to install obscure modules? |
| 09:11 |
|
tempire |
usually it's the common stuff that *always* works fine |
| 09:12 |
|
* tempire |
is open to it |
| 09:12 |
|
marcus |
crab: I'd be interested in a compromise. Like only running t/basic.t |
| 09:12 |
|
tempire |
that sort of thing is done anyway |
| 09:12 |
|
tempire |
TEST_ONLINE=1 and such |
| 09:12 |
|
marcus |
however, there's not a standard naming scheme. |
| 09:12 |
|
tempire |
couldn't hurt to officialize it |
| 09:13 |
|
marcus |
tempire: most modules run a lot of regression tests |
| 09:13 |
|
tempire |
yeah, I agree with you on that one |
| 09:13 |
|
tempire |
test level 0..5 or so |
| 09:13 |
|
tempire |
grimlock still failing |
| 09:14 |
|
marcus |
\o/ |
| 09:14 |
|
marcus |
dhoss ftw |
| 09:14 |
|
tempire |
does it work for anyone else? |
| 09:15 |
|
marcus |
Found dependencies: Test::WWW::Mechanize::PSGI, Test::DBIx::Class, Template::Plugin::Filter::String::Truncate, Bread::Board, DBIx::Class::Helper::Row::ToJSON, Data::Manager, Catalyst::Plugin::Authorization::Roles, DBIx::Class, Catalyst::Plugin::MessageStack, DBICx::MaterializedPath, Catalyst::Runtime |
| 09:15 |
|
marcus |
please hold |
| 09:15 |
|
marcus |
Bread::Bored |
| 09:18 |
|
tempire |
--notest !! |
| 09:19 |
|
marcus |
ooh, that really sped it up |
| 09:20 |
|
* tempire |
sleeps |
| 09:21 |
|
marcus |
seems it cannot be used from cpan install |
| 09:22 |
|
marcus |
IT RUNS! |
| 09:23 |
|
marcus |
http://nordaaker.com/docs/skit[…]120131-102250.jpg |
| 09:24 |
|
|
Foxcool joined #mojo |
| 09:56 |
|
memowe |
IF NO EXPLODE, GRIMLOCK SAVE BLOG FOR YOU :) |
| 10:27 |
|
|
wose left #mojo |
| 10:31 |
|
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blabos joined #mojo |
| 10:51 |
|
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| 11:08 |
|
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briang joined #mojo |
| 11:39 |
|
BinGOs |
aaaaaaaaaaaa/win 58 |
| 11:40 |
|
crab |
aaaaaaaaaaaa to you too |
| 11:40 |
|
BinGOs |
:( |
| 11:42 |
|
memowe |
win 58? wtf! |
| 11:48 |
|
marcus |
memowe: why is that wtf? |
| 11:48 |
|
purl |
that is .nl |
| 11:48 |
|
crab |
win 58, lose 58 |
| 11:49 |
|
memowe |
marcus: I know win 98 and it scares me. |
| 11:49 |
|
marcus |
aaaaaa/win xp? |
| 12:06 |
|
|
Foxcool joined #mojo |
| 12:10 |
|
BinGOs |
Well, this channel is Irssi Window 66 |
| 12:12 |
|
memowe |
9 here |
| 12:13 |
|
* marcus |
is using textual, and haz no /win command |
| 12:23 |
|
omega_ |
marcus: with a bouncer? or? |
| 12:23 |
|
marcus |
omega_: yea |
| 12:23 |
|
marcus |
znc |
| 12:28 |
|
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| 13:08 |
|
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daxim joined #mojo |
| 13:14 |
|
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ccushing joined #mojo |
| 13:16 |
|
crab |
a mojo plat forms team would be cool |
| 13:16 |
|
* sri |
disagrees |
| 13:16 |
|
|
ki0 joined #mojo |
| 13:17 |
|
crab |
why? |
| 13:17 |
|
sri |
it's a waste of time |
| 13:17 |
|
sri |
that contest has never done anything good for any participant |
| 13:18 |
|
crab |
oh. |
| 13:18 |
|
crab |
a friend of mine went and said it was fun |
| 13:19 |
|
|
jnap joined #mojo |
| 13:19 |
|
sri |
that on the other hand might be true |
| 13:19 |
|
sri |
i'm judging it by marketing value |
| 13:21 |
|
daxim |
I won 1000€ |
| 13:21 |
|
daxim |
if that isn't good, I don't know what is. |
| 13:22 |
|
marcus |
daxim: I hope you didn't spend more than 10 hours on it ;) |
| 13:25 |
|
daxim |
show of hands please, who here successfully repeatedly commands a salary of 100€/h? |
| 13:25 |
|
marcus |
\[ |
| 13:26 |
|
marcus |
daxim: but how many hours *did* you spend on it? |
| 13:27 |
|
daxim |
probably about 50h, including organising the perl grassroots base for participation in 2011 |
| 13:37 |
|
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| 13:39 |
|
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hshong joined #mojo |
| 13:39 |
|
marcus |
daxim: that's mcdonalds salary here =) |
| 13:41 |
|
daxim |
we have already established that you are in the minority at the top, so don't project from yourself onto the other people here |
| 13:41 |
|
daxim |
the fame I gained is immaterial, and is sure to last me a few years |
| 13:43 |
|
marcus |
daxim: no worries, I do many hours of open source work without any expectation of pay. Just saying it's not a very good way to make a living ;) |
| 13:44 |
|
daxim |
I do have a day job, and did so at the time of participation, and actually took vacation time off to take part |
| 13:44 |
|
|
dmn001 left #mojo |
| 13:44 |
|
daxim |
if I didn't round up the community, there wouldn't have been any perl teams in 2011 |
| 13:46 |
|
marcus |
I am not even able to find the plat forms web page in google |
| 13:47 |
|
marcus |
oh, google autocorrect |
| 13:47 |
|
daxim |
http://groups.google.com/group[…]/a9a665bb9338d228 |
| 13:51 |
|
crab |
marcus: wtf? mcdonalds pays eur100/hr in .no? |
| 13:52 |
|
marcus |
crab: no, eur20. |
| 13:52 |
|
marcus |
1000/50 |
| 13:52 |
|
purl |
20 |
| 13:52 |
|
crab |
oh. |
| 13:52 |
|
marcus |
it's still high tho |
| 14:00 |
|
|
briang joined #mojo |
| 14:03 |
|
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GabrielVieira joined #mojo |
| 14:03 |
|
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| 14:06 |
|
sven^ |
hey... I want to write an image gallery for an existing website which is using PHP and Apache. Since I don't like PHP it would be nice if I could just use Perl for that gallery. Is mojolicous the right choice for that? |
| 14:08 |
|
daxim |
http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/c[…]r_or_mojolicious/ |
| 14:08 |
|
crab |
sven: it could be, you sure could get the basis of one set up quickly with mojo |
| 14:08 |
|
crab |
on the other hand, the basis of an image gallery is pretty small, you could probably do it with anything |
| 14:11 |
|
crab |
daxim: "TIL about r/perl" |
| 14:11 |
|
sven^ |
ok. Right now I have this virtual host setup in my apache config: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/179140 What exactly do I have to change there to make the / route be at my.domain.tld/gallery instead of my.domain.tld/ ? |
| 14:15 |
|
r0b3rt |
Using Plack::Builder with the mount option could be used. https://metacpan.org/module/Plack::Builder |
| 14:16 |
|
|
kitt_vl joined #mojo |
| 14:17 |
|
marcus |
wow, I managed to use Mojo::IOLoop->delay \o/ |
| 14:17 |
|
sri |
\o/ |
| 14:18 |
|
sri |
all marcus proofing finally payed off :D |
| 14:20 |
|
sri |
marcus: are you using $delay->wait unless Mojo::IOLoop->is_running? |
| 14:20 |
|
marcus |
never mind, I didn't get it to work. |
| 14:20 |
|
sri |
aww :( |
| 14:21 |
|
marcus |
sri: in a mojolicious app, I can't use any blocking requests if I use async requests? |
| 14:21 |
|
sri |
true |
| 14:23 |
|
* marcus |
rewrites another helper to use $cb instead of return |
| 14:47 |
|
|
melmothX joined #mojo |
| 14:53 |
|
|
alnewkirk joined #mojo |
| 14:56 |
|
sri |
https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/277 # you're welcome to join the discussion if you think i'm wrong |
| 14:57 |
|
marcus |
sri: I contributed to say I think you're right, just to spite you. |
| 14:58 |
|
* sri |
waves fist at marcus |
| 14:58 |
|
* marcus |
adds another callback. |
| 14:58 |
|
sri |
MOAR CALLBACKS! |
| 14:59 |
|
marcus |
yo dawg, I heard you like callbacks. |
| 14:59 |
|
sri |
that could be the node.js slogan :) |
| 15:00 |
|
marcus |
I'm running out of synonyms for $self |
| 15:01 |
|
sri |
in documentation i tend to use $ua and the like now |
| 15:01 |
|
marcus |
http://nordaaker.com/docs/skit[…]120131-160109.jpg |
| 15:01 |
|
crab |
why, $id is perfect ;-) |
| 15:02 |
|
sri |
those colors are weak! |
| 15:02 |
|
sri |
and what font is that? |
| 15:02 |
|
marcus |
sri: Menlo |
| 15:02 |
|
sri |
Oo |
| 15:03 |
|
marcus |
theme is 'Tomorrow night'. |
| 15:04 |
|
sri |
http://twitpic.com/4kgomp/full # mine looks still like this |
| 15:04 |
|
sri |
did you turn off anti aliasing or so? |
| 15:06 |
|
marcus |
not afaict |
| 15:09 |
|
crab |
yeah, i wonder why it looks so choppy |
| 15:09 |
|
|
rhaen_fork joined #mojo |
| 15:10 |
|
rhaen_fork |
moin |
| 15:11 |
|
sri |
http://twitpic.com/8dzse4/full # even my macvim setup looks less choppy |
| 15:12 |
|
marcus |
I like the choppyness. it's old school :) |
| 15:12 |
|
marcus |
}o{ |
| 15:12 |
|
rhaen_fork |
sri: btw, I've submitted a talk for the MongoDB Berlin. About training young professionals in the art of Mojolicious and MongoDB as the data backend. |
| 15:13 |
|
sri |
rhaen_fork++ |
| 15:13 |
|
rhaen_fork |
hm, I like the file browser thing. |
| 15:13 |
|
rhaen_fork |
hm, how does he do that? |
| 15:14 |
|
rhaen_fork |
I am using NerdTree which gives a nice text view - but this one is fancy. I guess - this is a hidden text mate :) |
| 15:14 |
|
marcus |
sri: checked, I've turned off antialiasing |
| 15:20 |
|
sri |
rhaen_fork: https://github.com/alloy/macvim |
| 15:20 |
|
sri |
it's a fork with sidebar |
| 15:21 |
|
rhaen_fork |
ah, ok - it's for sissies! |
| 15:21 |
|
rhaen_fork |
:) |
| 15:21 |
|
rhaen_fork |
and I doubt that it is web-scale |
| 15:21 |
|
rhaen_fork |
is it able to scale out? |
| 15:22 |
|
sri |
tempire: once thing that annoys me a bit about ctrlp is that it doesn't scroll up and down past the window boundaries |
| 15:22 |
|
sri |
rhaen_fork: i tend to use it full screen! |
| 15:22 |
|
rhaen_fork |
aha - so it scales horizontally and vertically - that's impressive! |
| 15:26 |
|
sri |
if that isn't web scale i don't know what is! |
| 15:27 |
|
Netfeed |
am i the only one that is annoyed with the change in sublime2 that you can't use ctrl+shift+{ / } to change tabs? |
| 15:29 |
|
sri |
i've actually not played with sublime for at least 6 months |
| 15:30 |
|
Netfeed |
i like the editor overall, but this change is really annoying |
| 15:51 |
|
sri |
lol |
| 15:51 |
|
sri |
i just ran vim inside conqueterm inside macvim -.- |
| 15:51 |
|
sri |
yo dawg |
| 15:59 |
|
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| 16:17 |
|
* sri |
wonders if hypnotoad would actually work in cygwin |
| 16:24 |
|
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| 16:25 |
|
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GitHub82 joined #mojo |
| 16:25 |
|
GitHub82 |
[mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/M_aw-A |
| 16:25 |
|
GitHub82 |
[mojo/master] removed Cygwin exception from Hypnotoad - Sebastian Riedel |
| 16:25 |
|
|
GitHub82 left #mojo |
| 16:25 |
|
sri |
lets see if someone complains :) |
| 16:31 |
|
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ccushing joined #mojo |
| 16:31 |
|
sri |
damn |
| 16:32 |
|
sri |
i must admit, sublime2 looks really good these days |
| 16:38 |
|
sri |
multi colomn editing is really really great |
| 16:38 |
|
sri |
s/o/u/ |
| 16:40 |
|
rhaen_fork |
sri: sorry - I didn't manage to work through the mojo documentation/wiki this holiday. :( I decided to spent some time on NetBSD. Could you please remove the commit access to the project on github? |
| 16:40 |
|
sri |
aww :( |
| 16:40 |
|
rhaen_fork |
Maybe I will have some time during this month - however, I'll use the edit function of the wiki then |
| 16:41 |
|
sri |
well, i'm not in a hurry to remove your access |
| 16:42 |
|
rhaen_fork |
thanks. |
| 16:45 |
|
rhaen_fork |
k, I'll use it for the wiki stuff this month (Feb.) promised. Right now - MongoDB is building on NetBSD. |
| 16:45 |
|
rhaen_fork |
YAY - it just took 5 patches (or so) which have to be committed to upstream |
| 16:45 |
|
rhaen_fork |
I feel like a hero! |
| 16:52 |
|
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| 17:29 |
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| 17:32 |
|
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| 17:33 |
|
Andrei666 |
hey guys, how can I configure hypnotoad log file? I've read the documentation...but nothing about log files... |
| 17:47 |
|
marcus |
Andrei666: what do you want to configure? |
| 17:50 |
|
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| 17:53 |
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marcus |
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/perlcode[…]120131/1328019526 # phear |
| 17:55 |
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sri |
i for one welcome our async overlords |
| 18:00 |
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Andrei666 |
marcus: i want to configure hypnotoad...to write a log file..in which it writes...all the requests and responses...from and to ips |
| 18:08 |
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* crab |
sighs |
| 18:24 |
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marcus |
crab: what is wrong, my birdloving friend? |
| 18:24 |
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marcus |
Andrei666: hypnotoad will write log/production.log like other servers. |
| 18:32 |
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Andrei666 |
marcus: does it write them in a specific file? |
| 18:34 |
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diegok |
reading translated Japanese is harder than async :-) |
| 18:41 |
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sri |
oh noes, i hit a macvim bug already :( |
| 18:41 |
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sri |
scrollbar shows up when i vertical spit even though i've deactivated them |
| 18:44 |
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sri |
oh, left and right have their own config options -.- |
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crab |
marcus: the article you pasted reminded me that i suck for not finishing AE::Postgres |
| 18:57 |
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marcus |
crab: ah |
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| 19:13 |
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tempire |
scrollbar does not happen for me |
| 19:13 |
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tempire |
evar |
| 19:14 |
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| 19:14 |
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tempire |
https://gist.github.com/1712276 |
| 19:14 |
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tempire |
set guioptions-=r is what does it for me |
| 19:15 |
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* tempire |
loves nerdtree's new lil' nubs: http://empireenterprises.com/s[…]120131-111528.png |
| 19:17 |
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tempire |
it's amazing to me how disparate perl programmers are |
| 19:17 |
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tempire |
some dude on the reddit thread uses dancer, but has never heard of catalyst or mojolicious!? |
| 19:18 |
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sri |
tempire: you need -=L too |
| 19:18 |
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tempire |
I have that too. don't remember what it does though |
| 19:19 |
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* sri |
prefers the real osx sidebar |
| 19:19 |
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sri |
-=L is lefthand scrollbar |
| 19:19 |
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tempire |
oh. good I have that then :) |
| 19:19 |
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sri |
-=r is righthand |
| 19:57 |
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marcus |
wow. |
| 19:57 |
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marcus |
zsh is even more awesome than I knew - http://mikegrouchy.com/blog/zs[…]-your-friend.html |
| 20:02 |
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* sri |
knew that already, yay! |
| 20:12 |
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marcus |
I didn't know about the kill tab completion. |
| 20:12 |
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marcus |
I switched last week. |
| 20:20 |
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| 20:26 |
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GitHub135 |
[mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/bnmlcw |
| 20:26 |
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GitHub135 |
[mojo/master] added example for synchronizing multiple backend requests - Sebastian Riedel |
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| 20:26 |
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sri |
marcus: take a look |
| 20:28 |
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sri |
not sure if that's too redundant |
| 20:30 |
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sri |
http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mo[…]kend_web_services |
| 20:30 |
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sri |
http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mo[…]blocking_requests |
| 20:31 |
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sri |
maybe the details from the second should be added to the first |
| 20:31 |
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sri |
so the second becomes a stand alone example |
| 20:36 |
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marcus |
sri: I like that example. It gave me an Event "close" failed: on the cpan mojolicious version, but seems to be fixed on master. |
| 20:36 |
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sri |
it's a harmless error and fixed yes |
| 20:36 |
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sri |
judofyr reported it |
| 20:42 |
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sri |
btw. i think a perlbrew hack would be nice for the cookbook |
| 20:42 |
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sri |
not sure how portable such a recipe could be made, but covering osx + linux should be possible |
| 20:45 |
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sri |
perlbrew + perl5.14.2 + cpanm + Mojolicious in a few simple steps or so |
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marcus |
Noticed perlbrew supports --notest like mcpan |
| 20:50 |
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marcus |
and -j |
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| 20:53 |
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marcus |
hmm, building perl isn't good for my 1-fan laptop :D |
| 20:55 |
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marcus |
apple really needs to announce new hardware soon, before my computer melts :-/ |
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| 21:02 |
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sri |
your macbook is not melting… it's evolving into a terminator :o |
| 21:03 |
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marcus |
humm, after seeing american horror story today, that thought will haunt me :-/ |
| 21:04 |
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sri |
the intro is so creepy |
| 21:04 |
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marcus |
mm |
| 21:05 |
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* marcus |
curses at perl memory management |
| 21:10 |
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marcus |
sri: did you see http://git.shadowcat.co.uk/git[…]2eb84e5ed782d3665 ? How DBIC handles circular references. |
| 21:11 |
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sri |
marcus: looked at it briefly |
| 22:12 |
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sri |
marcus: thinking about experimenting with it? |
| 22:13 |
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marcus |
sri: I've attempted to use it for our ws client. |
| 22:15 |
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sri |
i'd like more clever leak prevention hacks in mojolicious, but it's about the least fun thing i can imagine :S |
| 22:18 |
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marcus |
yea. |
| 22:20 |
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marcus |
this thing is certainly clever. |
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