Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2012-02-13

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:29 memowe sri: thanks for your work on multiple org^H^H^Hrenderers and static shit! :) I'm happy enough today to compensate my disappointment.
00:42 tempire confirmed: "WebSockets are not yet supported."
00:43 tempire http://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/http-routing
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01:33 * tempire wonders if there's any advantage to using return !!1 instead of return 1
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01:47 memowe It's "more true" ;)
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02:16 crab tempire; of course not
02:17 crab !!1 makes no sense at all, ever. !! is good to convert an arbitrary expression into 0 or 1, that's all.
02:17 crab if you have 0 or 1 already, well, just use it.
02:18 tempire from what I understand, !!1 is a true boolean value internally.  The issue is that it's always resolved as 1 whenever you use it.
02:18 tempire so the question is whether there's ever a point where it's not resolved as a 1
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06:16 * tempire transcends
06:16 purl transcends is a type of verb.
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07:14 tempire starting to thing gabor is biased against mojolicious
07:15 tempire I suppose it's to be expected
07:15 tempire oh wells.  no matter.
07:42 sri tempire: did you send him a mail?
07:43 sri i don't think he actually looks at blogs and stuff, but just makes a list of stuff from his inbox
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07:45 tempire ah
07:47 sri not sure though
07:49 tempire it doesn't matter all that much.  I just expected to see a couple things there that weren't
07:50 sri oh i think it does matter
07:50 sri should he be biased we need to call him out on it
07:50 tempire next time something happens, we'll make sure to email him.
07:51 * tempire appoints sri to remind him
07:51 sri bad choice, i don't remember what i had for breakfast :S
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08:07 tempire which #1 hacker news posts?
08:09 tempire was perl on heroku #1 at one point?
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08:19 sri it was #1 for many hours
08:20 sri front page a whole day
08:20 tempire rock on.  I saw the front page, just not the #1
08:20 tempire hoo dilly
08:20 tempire 112 upvotes!
08:21 fhelmber_ sri: dear lord, i feel dirty for so much facebook posts ;)
08:21 sri take a shower! :)
08:21 fhelmber_ ;)
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09:01 sri oh well, i'm used to being the bad guy ;p
09:03 sri but i would really like to know where he stands on neutrality
09:04 marcus tempire: I'm not socialist! Take that back!
09:05 sri i'm not sure "viking" is a political orientation
09:06 fhelmber_ sri: dunno about gabor, but perlbuzz tends to be "ignorant" of "modern" things too.
09:09 marcus sri: I'm a libertarian viking.
09:09 marcus everyone should be free to rape and pillage…
09:12 marcus sri: I don't think gabor is particularily biased, I just think he lives inside the Perl echo chamber.
09:12 sri fhelmber_: heh, at first i wanted to say perlweekly reminds me of perlbuzz now, but that seemed a bit harsh
09:12 sri marcus: that sounds very reasonable
09:13 sri (viking)
09:13 sri not sure about gabor, i'd like to hear him say that he tries to stay neutral
09:13 fhelmber_ hm, but honestly i was a little wtf by this one: http://dwimperl.com/
09:14 fhelmber_ dwim without mojo :(
09:14 fhelmber_ at least on the frontpage that is
09:16 * sjn is assuming gabor does as well as he can. I'm assuming his intentions are sound, but that he can't follow that's going on and therefore will miss some things now and then
09:17 sri i could swear dwimperl previously said it will include mojolicious in the future
09:17 sjn and if we assume Perl is on an upswing these days, I'd say his need for good leads will increase
09:17 sri it said something like "catalyst, dancer and mojolicious will be included in the future" or so
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09:23 memowe hellomojo!
09:31 sri hello yourself
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10:20 marcus fhelmber_: https://github.com/dwimperl/​perl-5.14.2.1-32bit-windows open a pull request?
10:20 fhelmber_ i personally don't use it - i just spotted it today while reading the perlweekly newsletter ;)
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10:24 diegok Is there a way to increase connect timeout for the command line?
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11:26 sri hmm, i can't think of a clever example for bundling assets with plugins
11:27 sri i might use a js file that does alert() and a template that does %= javscript :)
11:27 sri at least it's simple ;p
11:33 memowe sri: Mojolicious::Plugin::JQuery! :D
11:37 sri memowe: what would the template do in that case?
11:38 memowe Oh, you need a template? I just thought about static things.
11:39 sri i need a template and a static thing as example
11:39 sri both can be bundled
11:39 memowe Hmm.....
11:40 memowe Anyway, would a plugin a better way to handle JQuery inside the dist?
11:40 memowe s//be/
11:40 sri what's the gain?
11:40 purl the gain is probably I find sub {...} more intuitive than <%method>...</%method>
11:41 memowe purl: you're off topic
11:41 purl memowe: what?
11:41 memowe sri: I don't know. May be the illusion that it isn't always there.
11:42 sri we only bundle jquery for internal use
11:43 sri if the built-in templates don't need it anymore we should be able to remove it
11:43 memowe Oh, OK!
11:44 fhelmber_ sri: maybe bootstrap (http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/) is a better example, plus a few helpers defined in the plugin?
11:44 sri fhelmber_: thought about it, but seems a little too complicated
11:45 sri not to mention, bootstrap changes quickly
11:45 memowe sri: it doesn't need to be useful?
11:45 sri not at all
11:46 sri just trying to teach the reader some concepts
11:46 sri my first version is actually done now
11:46 memowe How about a plugin that counts requests per route and builds a nice simple table that is ordered by a static js script?
11:46 memowe would need Perl, template and js.
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11:54 GitHub156 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/4QfuYQ
11:54 GitHub156 [mojo/master] added recipe for bundling assets with plugins - Sebastian Riedel
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11:54 sri that's what i had in mind
11:55 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Gui​des/Rendering#Bundling_assets_with_plugins
11:57 memowe sri: I want to use that feature for Contenticious. Release! :)
11:58 sri MOAR FEEBACK!
11:59 marcus IZNICE!
11:59 memowe Hm. inflate makes it really easy to customize templates. With bundled non-DATA templates that wouldn't be so easy AFAICS?
11:59 sri inflate doesn't work for those kinds of templates anyway
12:00 sri app templates have precedence though
12:00 sri so you can overload
12:00 memowe yes, but it's a little harder to start.
12:00 sri not really
12:00 sri inflate doesn't work for plugins
12:01 memowe Yes, I had other things in mind. :)
12:01 memowe Lunch time! :)
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12:04 GitHub105 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/WdYMXA
12:04 GitHub105 [mojo/master] fixed a few typos in asset recipe - Sebastian Riedel
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13:02 GitHub193 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/M0Lx4Q
13:02 GitHub193 [mojo/master] improved a few recipes - Sebastian Riedel
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13:25 sri marcus: looks like gabor is biased after all
13:26 marcus sri: oh well.
13:26 Akron memowe++ sri++ for asset-bundling.
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13:35 sri in soviet russia assets bundle you!
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13:38 sri example should look a bit better now
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13:45 judofyr sri: what do you think about supporting TO_JSON in Mojo::JSON? https://metacpan.org/module/JSON#convert_blessed
13:46 sri not particularly interested
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13:57 crab hi.
13:57 marcus sri: what about --lib ?
13:57 sri not particularly interested :)
13:57 marcus :-/
13:58 sri everything that can't be tested scares me
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14:15 sri marcus: you can always vote
14:15 sri i'm not gonna veto if you really want it
14:15 judofyr what's --lib?
14:16 marcus judofyr: morbo --lib /home/judofyr/stuff foo.pl
14:18 sri not like there's no PERL5LIB=/home/judofyr/stuff
14:19 sri once your morbo/hypnotoad is running there's also use lib
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14:22 sri marcus: i don't quite get when someone would use it
14:32 marcus sri: I've needed it in the past, when I already have a PERL5LIB env and need to include another library. ended up just doing perl -I/foo /foo/morbo script/myapp
14:33 sri doesn't strike me as a common problem
14:34 sri especially considering the negatives
14:34 crab and if that's all it took to solve it, adding another knob seems hardly worthwhile.
14:40 sri i'm much more concerned about getting our current command line flags tested than adding new ones :)
14:44 sri i actually prefer env vars these days, since they are testable
14:48 crab they're not as nice from an admin perspective, though. having behaviour-modifying arguments visible in ps -ef output is good.
14:49 sri assuming $0 is not changed ;p
14:49 crab well, of course. also assuming that dinosaurs don't eat you before you run ps.
14:50 sri fair assumption
14:51 sri although my knowledge of india is too limited to make an assumption
14:52 * sri still assumes crab is really a giant crab
15:03 crab but of course.
15:03 purl Indubitably.
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15:56 sri wonder what would happen if i demand unit tests for new command line switches :)
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16:29 sri memowe: btw. i'm not sure about precedence yet
16:29 dlyke joined #mojo
16:29 sri appended paths have a higher priority than DATA templates atm
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17:31 GitHub117 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/fjxN3w
17:31 GitHub117 [mojo/master] tweaked asset bundling recipe a bit - Sebastian Riedel
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17:50 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/​blob/master/lib/Mojo/IOLoop.pm # looks so tiny without the deprecated code :)
17:50 sri \o/
17:51 judofyr sri: I like how you removed it in "tweaked asset bundling recipe a bit"
17:52 * sri sneaks around in the shadows
17:54 * sri assassinated judofyr from the shadows
17:54 * sri keeps sneaking around
17:55 mercutioviz I don't mind sri sneaking around... I'm just impressed that the primary author of a cool OSS project actually hangs out in the IRC channel and answers questions...
17:56 ColonelPanic001 it's the assassinations you should be worried about.
17:57 * sri sneaks behind mercutioviz and ties his shoelaces together
17:57 mercutioviz well, sometimes an assassination is a public service
17:57 ColonelPanic001 and that.
17:57 mercutioviz one of these days i'm going to carve out some time and do more with mojo & freeswitch
17:58 mercutioviz hopefully i can come up for air now that we've submitted all the stuff to Packt Pub for the FreeSWITCH Cookbook.
17:58 * mercutioviz trips and falls
17:58 sri i read that as free sammich… time for supper
17:58 mercutioviz sri: what tz r u?
17:59 sri CET
17:59 * mercutioviz i GMT -7 or whatever California is...
18:00 mercutioviz no wonder you're eating supper when i'm eating breakfast
18:06 sri crab/tempire/marcus: i think a release wouldn't be such a bad idea, to make memowe happy
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19:10 tempire I'll release.  I have an interview this week.  Maybe come in handy :)
19:11 tempire my bad marcus
19:11 tempire vikings forever
19:16 tempire Wait, didn't we decide to not have so many releases?
19:25 marcus tempire: pleasing memowe is important tho.
19:28 marcus I think it's a wonder sri eats at all. I thought he just needed to recharge his batteries now and then.
19:32 tempire so.
19:33 tempire let's talk perl podcast.
19:33 sri marcus: sudo make me a sammich
19:34 marcus sri: You're not in sudoers. This incident will be reported.
19:34 sri :o
19:35 sri tempire: sudo make a release
19:35 marcus for your CV
19:36 sri but yea, we should release less
19:36 sri so stop asking for releases people!
19:37 marcus RELEASE THE FLYING MONKEYS!
19:37 * sri opens the cage
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19:41 mercutioviz other than tempire's awesome videos and the cpan docs, are there other resources for a newbie to learn more about mojo? just curious what options are out there
19:41 tempire mojoexample
19:41 purl mojoexample is so shiney, and new, and sweet, and tweetable :-)
19:41 tempire <3 perl!
19:41 tempire <3 purl!
19:41 purl ^_^
19:41 mercutioviz i had not heard of mojoexample
19:41 mercutioviz ok, i google it
19:41 tempire see documentation link to the right of mojocasts.com
19:42 tempire That will always be a central location of mojo-related halp
19:42 tempire er, a location
19:42 tempire maybe not central
19:42 mercutioviz sweet
19:42 mercutioviz thx
19:49 osprey_ hm. When I upload file via ua I take Event "drain" failed: Wide character in syswrite at ../mach/IO/Handle.pm line 465.
19:49 osprey_ syswrite
19:49 purl syswrite is fixed-length unbuffered output to a filehandle
19:51 osprey_ hm, but 1hr ago all worked
19:51 osprey_ -_-
19:51 tempire "Released #mojolicious 2.49, with support for multiple template/static file locations, and more robust ioloop https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/2d07fd2​fe9efe7612769b4a0f7005ddfd9f68d09/Changes #perl"
19:51 sri i think crab had discovered a shorter way to link to Changes
19:52 sri like blob/v2.49/Changes or so
19:52 sri you would have to push your tag first of course
19:52 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/v2.48/Changes
19:53 tempire !
19:54 tempire I found a typo
19:54 sri /o\
19:54 tempire "Upload sucessful!" with cpanify
19:55 sri ops
19:55 sri fix it and push your tag
19:56 sri because i want to push a small doc fix too ;p
20:00 marcus http://www.leancrew.com/all-t​his/2012/02/why-i-left-perl/
20:01 sri marcus: seen it, i kinda want to agree… but also not
20:01 tempire tl;dr
20:02 marcus sri: my feelings are similar
20:06 osprey_ tempire: I use 1.99 because perl 5.10 :)
20:07 tempire perlbrew!
20:07 purl perlbrew is just so nice.
20:07 tempire wait
20:07 tempire oh, 5.10.0
20:07 tempire yes, perlbrew!
20:07 purl rumour has it perlbrew is just so nice
20:07 osprey_ v5.10.0
20:08 tempire what's stopping you from using perlbrew?
20:08 osprey_ lazy
20:08 osprey_ I better upgrade my sestem perl
20:09 tempire bah.
20:09 tempire system perl is the devil
20:09 tempire curl -kL http://install.perlbrew.pl | bash
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20:09 GitHub42 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/KKl2aQ
20:09 GitHub42 [mojo/master] small documentation tweaks - Sebastian Riedel
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20:09 tempire there you go.  no need to read.
20:09 tempire and when you're further curious: http://perlbrew.pl/
20:13 marcus I found perlbrew installs rather faster with the -n switch
20:13 tempire I started that since you recommended it…but I was hesitant to recommend it on someone's first try.
20:14 sri i couldn't function without perlbrew
20:14 marcus also -j 5 on most modern machines I guess
20:14 marcus multicore ftw
20:14 tempire oooh
20:14 tempire I haven't tried that.
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20:35 mercutioviz hmm, that guy who left perl for python didn't write a very convincing argument, IMHO
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21:02 batman hi
21:02 purl hey, batman.
21:02 batman has my UrlWith extension been "merged" into core?
21:03 batman no
21:03 * batman asked before checking the source...
21:03 batman so what should i do now? rename my helper? :/
21:06 batman https://metacpan.org/module/​Mojolicious::Plugin::UrlWith <---
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21:23 marcus batman: if you prefer yours, it will continue to work afaik, just will replace the core one.
21:23 marcus batman: we're using our own in a project as well.
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21:25 batman ok
21:25 marcus sri: is it intentional that render_text applies the default layout?
21:25 sri dunno
21:26 batman I'm getting "helper url_with already exists, replacing."
21:26 marcus $self->render(text=>"OOPS", status=>400); - was a bit surprising
21:26 batman so i was thinking i might need to rename mine
21:26 marcus batman: yeah, that means yours is replacing the existing one.
21:26 batman i've notices
21:26 batman s/s/d/
21:26 batman just don't want to step on any core features, that's all...
21:28 batman i think the api is the same though :)
21:29 batman hm... or maybe not...
21:29 marcus batman: I think it's a bit simpler.
21:29 batman indeed it is
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21:41 tempire am I the only one who thinks the "yet another" prefix makes a thing sound cheap, and not cute?
21:42 marcus tempire: you mean like, yet another perl conference?
21:42 marcus I think it's cute.
21:42 tempire or the plethora of tools that have the prefix
21:43 marcus it's part of perl culture
21:43 marcus referencing timtoady.
21:43 tempire the "yet another" came from perl?
21:43 tempire I thought it was just yet another usage of it
21:43 marcus http://www.yetanother.org/
21:44 marcus Given yacc, I guess it predates perl.
21:45 marcus but perl has had a long term heavy use of it
21:45 marcus like yet another perl hacker.
21:46 marcus I see it entered the jargon file in 1996.
21:48 tempire damnit
21:48 tempire I meant to talk to judofyr today
21:48 tempire guess he's logged off for the day
21:50 marcus tempire: I sent him a nudge on im
21:50 judofyr joined #mojo
21:50 judofyr I have been summoned?
21:50 tempire wow.
21:50 tempire I'm good
21:50 tempire :)
21:50 tempire judofyr: in regards to perloku
21:51 sri just don't feed him after midnight
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21:51 tempire have you noticed an intermittent success with creating a heroku app with your build pack?
21:51 mire joined #mojo
21:51 tempire it seems to fail more often than succeed for me
21:51 judofyr oh?
21:52 tempire it's as if the detect script is failing…or not running at all.
21:52 judofyr well, I did try to change some stuff today, but I reverted it because it broke stuff
21:52 judofyr and yeah, it does seem like the detect-script fails :/
21:52 tempire It was yesterday I was having the problem
21:53 tempire I forked it and tried a couple things
21:53 judofyr tempire: even this one fails for me now: https://github.com/judofyr/perlo​ku-debug/blob/master/bin/detect
21:53 tempire awesome.
21:53 judofyr I've opened an issue on Heroku (low priority)
21:54 judofyr tempire: I'm currently experimenting with Carton: https://github.com/judofyr/perlo​ku-debug/blob/master/bin/compile
21:54 judofyr and automatic PSGI support
21:55 tempire I submitted a ticket yesterday as well, normal priority
21:55 tempire http://empireenterprises.com/skitch//Hero​ku_Support___Request%2343252__After_pushi​ng_an_app_succes..._-20120213-135525.png
21:56 tempire for reference: https://gist.github.com/1811126
21:56 judofyr tempire: it annoys me that buildpacks doesn't support branches/tags
21:57 tempire and this is my success: https://gist.github.com/1811171
21:57 tempire well humbug.  I was hoping you had some insight.
21:57 tempire hopefully heroku will come back with a fix.
21:58 tempire it's the only thing preventing http://www.screenr.com/86Vs
21:58 judofyr nah, it annoyed me today too; pretty damn impossible testing buildpacks when the detection-script doesn't work :/
21:59 marcus *drowning in glitter*
21:59 tempire I noticed in the heroku create code that it's looping on sleep 1 to wait for success.
21:59 judofyr tempire: btw, I'm thinking of changing Perloku pretty quickly to something like this: https://github.com/judofyr/perlok​u-debug/blob/5556a1c325/README.md
22:00 judofyr at least Procfile instead of Perloku-executable
22:00 judofyr still not 100% sure about Carton though
22:00 tempire I don't know anything about it, myself
22:01 marcus living in a box.
22:01 tempire I love the build pack idea, though.  Once it's reliable, I see very little reason to host my own sites.
22:02 tempire it's so strange that the heroku client requires an arbitrary PUT /apps/:name/status with no content before it thinks the previous create all is successful.
22:04 judofyr tempire: but if you're building something on top of Perloku, you will definitely need to have a Procfile instead of a Perloku-file in the near future
22:04 judofyr e.g, just something like: web: ./app.pl daemon --listen http://*:$PORT
22:05 tempire simple enough change.
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22:05 judofyr and I don't think I'll require Carton; it's still pretty alpha…
22:06 tempire I might just to a fork for the deploy command to rely on anyway, at least until heroku supports branches.
22:06 judofyr sounds like a good plan
22:06 judofyr judofyr/perloku is probably going to change quite a bit
22:07 judofyr I could also build Perl-packages that includes more cpan-modules; but for Mojolicious I think they would just be out of date pretty soon anyway
22:07 tempire that's fine.  you can do all the leg work, and I'll reap the benefits :)
22:08 tempire perl-packages for building on heroku?
22:08 tempire oh, you mean packages that already include the modules
22:08 judofyr yeah
22:08 judofyr perloku.s3.amazonaws.com/perl-5.14.2.tgz
22:08 tempire could be a good thing, at least to have bundles
22:09 tempire dbic bundle, for example, would be great
22:09 tempire since it takes so long
22:09 tempire then combining those bundles
22:09 judofyr yeah
22:10 tempire could even have a running thing that continuously updates the bundles when new versions come available
22:10 marcus mojomojo bundle ;)
22:10 tempire which would take care of the mojolicious frequency
22:10 sri all-of-cpan.tgz
22:11 tempire then there could be a command
22:11 judofyr tempire: I don't actually have any Perl-apps I want to run on Heroku, so please report all your issues!
22:11 tempire perloku-install app
22:11 tempire like a little app store
22:12 tempire all the problems that n00bs have running their first wordpress/hosted php app on their own host
22:12 tempire solved: perloku-install app
22:12 tempire !
22:36 * sri waits for the first plugin with bundled assets to hit cpan
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22:47 marcus spigot!
22:52 marcus purl: jerk it!
22:52 purl marcus: spigot: FOLKS I'M HAVING AN ASTHMA ATTACK spigot: HURF HUHHHHHHH HURF HUHHHHHHHH HURF HUHHHHHHHHH spigot: I CAN'T BLOW OUT THIS SIMPLE MATCH deuce: JUMP HIM spigot: SON OF A
22:53 marcus suck it, sungo!
22:53 marcus purl: jerk it!
22:53 purl marcus: TPants I'm killing you, making a movie about you, then killing myself
23:06 sri purl: jerk it!
23:06 purl sri: pants: I WANT TO DELIVER MAIL TO THE STALLS pants: PACKAGE FOR YOU SIR pants: KNOCK KNOCK I'VE GOT A POSTCARD FROM STALL 4 TO STALL 2 spigot: COME ON IN SORRY AS YOU CAN SEE THIS PLACE IS A MESS spigot: CLOSE THE DOOR spigot: HONK pants: OOF pants: LORDY LORD spigot: URG pants: SIGN HERE AND HERE AND HERE AND HULAGHLUAGHUAG HERE spigot: THANK YOU COME AGAIN
23:07 marcus sri: I rewrote it as a mojo app scraping jerkcity.com
23:07 marcus it just falls back to some built in defaults if it cannot find a transcript.
23:07 sri \o/
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23:08 marcus sungo kind of annoyed me -  http://twitter.com/#!/sungo​/status/169153331044945920 http://twitter.com/#!/sungo​/status/169153493821685760
23:27 marcus purl: mojo releases?
23:27 purl marcus: Mojolicious-2.49; Mojolicious-2.48; Mojolicious-2.47; Mojolicious-2.46; Mojolicious-2.45; Mojolicious-2.44; Mojolicious-2.43; Mojolicious-2.42; Mojolicious-2.41; Mojolicious-2.40; Mojolicious-2.39; Mojolicious-2.38; Mojolicious-2.37; Mojolicious-2.36; Mojolicious-2.35; Mojolicious-2.34; Mojolicious-2.33; Mojolicious-2.32; Mojolicious-2.31; Mojolicious-2.30; Mojolicious-2.29; Mojolicious-2.28; Mojolicious-2.27
23:28 tempire purl: install Mojolicious
23:28 purl tempire: what?
23:29 marcus purl: did the bad man touch you?
23:29 purl no idea, marcus
23:31 tardisx joined #mojo
23:44 d4rkie joined #mojo
23:45 * sri touches purl
23:45 * purl cries quietly
23:45 sri :o
23:48 sri does hypnotoad work on heroku?
23:48 sri or just the single process server?
23:56 preflex_ joined #mojo

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