Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2012-02-22

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Time Nick Message
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00:43 sri marcus: btw. the bundle is still not in tm2, even after the latest update
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01:14 sri http://groups.google.com/group/mojolicio‚Äčus/browse_thread/thread/5f8d185a3a0d6a5a # anyone else getting it?
01:41 Topic for #mojo is now Mojolicious real-time web framework ūüźę http://mojolicio.us ūüźę http://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/today
02:07 zpmorgan I'm setting up a mojo::lite site using DBIC, pgsql. I don't know what to use as far as web servers.
02:08 tempire zpmorgan: hypnotoad
02:08 purl ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!!
02:09 zpmorgan oh, nice!
02:10 zpmorgan does it play well with other web servers like nginx?
02:10 tempire yes
02:10 tempire the best production use is to serve static files with nginx, and proxy the web app requests
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02:11 tempire http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Moj‚Äčolicious/Guides/Cookbook#Nginx
02:11 zpmorgan thanks, tempire.
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06:33 tempire tempire++
06:33 tempire purl: karma tempire
06:33 purl tempire has karma of 73
06:33 tempire tempire++
06:34 tempire purl: karma tempire
06:34 purl tempire has karma of 73
06:34 tempire dernit
06:34 zpmorgan tempire++
06:34 tempire purl: karma tempire
06:34 purl tempire has karma of 74
06:34 tempire \o/
06:34 tempire zpmorgan++
06:34 zpmorgan purl: karma zpmorgan
06:34 purl zpmorgan has karma of 1
06:34 tempire karmic identity
06:35 zpmorgan :)
06:35 crab i prefer to serve the static files and all through hypnotoad, but make nginx cache static resources
06:36 tempire I shouldn't have said "best"
06:36 zpmorgan crab, how about logging?
06:36 tempire just that it's often mentioned.
06:36 zpmorgan tempire, I was not looking for a broad picture. just a command in the right direction
06:37 crab how about it?
06:37 purl it's it!
06:38 zpmorgan um, do you keep logs in /var/log?
06:39 zpmorgan is hypnotoad supposed to keep logs somewhare?
06:40 crab access logs? i use nginx's. but i make hypnotoad log application stuff to $myapp/logs/myapp.log
06:40 zpmorgan okay, thans
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09:29 marcus good morning
09:29 purl For you maybe.
09:29 marcus sri: sucks about the tm2 bundle
09:29 marcus sri: Server::PSGI doesn't respect PLACK_ENV?
09:30 marcus Oh, I see it uses it to detect plack, but not to set mode.
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10:42 marcus *crickets*
10:47 marcus hmm
10:47 marcus when I do perldoc Mojo I get the docs for 'The Mojolicious Command System'...
10:48 marcus man Mojo ftw
10:53 marcus sri: is it too late to switch mode at startup time?
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11:00 diegok Is there any reason for scaffolded default layout to not use taghelper stylesheet?, wouldn't be nice for newies to know about the helpers?
11:02 trone Yesterday I've seen my first futurama episode. Now I know where "bite my shiny metal ass" comes from. Mojolicious drives again.
11:02 judofyr trone++
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11:04 trone judofyr: maybe I was -- before. ;-)
11:04 judofyr purl: karma trone
11:04 purl trone has karma of 5
11:05 zoidberg NOW ZOIDBERG IS POPULAR ONE
11:06 vervain diegok: %= stylesheet 'foo' should 'just work' in ./templates/layouts/default.html.ep
11:06 judofyr zoidberg++
11:11 marcus guess I just have to set the loglevel back in startup if mode is changed to production
11:55 sri marcus: you tell me
11:55 marcus sri: not sure if it should be doing it. Anyways, I'm setting mode in startup now, seems to work fine as long as a I reset the log level.
11:56 sri oh wait, of course it's too late
11:56 sri lite apps get initialized long before the server adapter is loaded
11:56 marcus sri: I'm not working on a lite app.
11:57 sri thought you were proposing it as a core extension
11:57 marcus sri: are we talking about the same thing now?
11:57 marcus :)
11:58 sri PLACK_ENV
11:58 purl somebody said PLACK_ENV was development *by default*
11:58 marcus sri: I was possibly proposing setting MOJO_MODE based on PLACK_ENV
11:58 sri yea, and i was telling you it doesn't work
11:58 marcus so MOJO_MODE='production if PLACK_ENV='deployment' or so
11:58 sri eww
11:59 marcus or just $ENV{MOJO_MODE}=$ENV{PLACK_ENV};
11:59 sri i don't want psgi code to leak out of Mojo::Server::PSGI
11:59 marcus since they both default to development.
12:00 sri what's next, support for mod_perl2 env vars in Mojolicious::Commands?
12:01 marcus mod_perl2 has env vars?
12:01 crab of course
12:01 marcus we don't even have a mod_perl2 driver, do we? :)
12:01 sri we did at one point
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12:04 sri http://groups.google.com/group/mojolicio‚Äčus/browse_thread/thread/5f8d185a3a0d6a5a # any opinions about this?
12:06 crab my opinion is: "wtf?"
12:07 sri :D
12:15 marcus seems hackish
12:16 judofyr seems like he wants an internal redirect
12:17 sri i'm not even sure why he needs to run the chain again
12:18 sri $app->handler() is much better for internal redirects
12:18 sri not to mention that he hooks into internals with mojo.routed
12:21 vervain Should this work in ep: % if ( stash 'status_message' || flash 'status_message' ) { do shit }
12:24 crab sure, why not?
12:25 vervain I dunno... just doesn't seem to be... when stash 'status_message' is undefined it evalutes to fales even when flash 'status_message' is clearly seet.
12:25 vervain s/eet/et/
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12:25 GitHub68 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/6VH_rg
12:25 GitHub68 [mojo/master] fixed handler examples - Sebastian Riedel
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12:26 sri Oo
12:30 marcus hmm?
12:30 marcus what just happened?
12:30 marcus who is james?
12:30 purl rumour has it james is a cunt
12:31 marcus guess purl would know.
12:31 sri :D
12:31 crab marcus: dunno, just someone who was bouncing in and out repeatedly, so i assumed something was wrong with his client and banned him to reduce the noise
12:31 marcus crab: oh. I just turned off joins and quits in my client.
12:32 crab can you turn them off in james's client too? :-)
12:32 marcus I do see bans tho, which is why I was confused ;)
12:32 sri marcus: bad sheriff, no cookie!
12:32 marcus sri: I shot the sheriff, but I didn't shoot the deputy.
12:34 judofyr sri: I'm getting a leak in the following coderef: http://cl.ly/1T3j361b0O0z3U242g2r (in the app->plugins->{events}). I see why it leaks, but I have no idea where it comes from!
12:34 judofyr do you know?
12:35 diegok vervain: of course, I was wandering about being the default when using mojo generate command :-)
12:35 judofyr ah, I was grepping against HEAD, not the version I had installed
12:37 marcus yay, fixed 1 leak
12:37 judofyr marcus: upgrading to 2.51 should fix that leak btw
12:37 marcus judofyr: I am on 2.51
12:37 sri i'm actually not entirely opposed to allowing internal redirects though around_dispatch, maybe someone here got an idea how to make it work with the current api? https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/m‚Äčaster/lib/Mojolicious/Plugins.pm#L16
12:38 sri the callback basically needs to be executable multiple times without jumping forward in the chain
12:39 marcus judofyr: fix the tt renderer leaks pls ;-)
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12:50 judofyr marcus: I think I already have. not sure if they got released though.
12:51 * judofyr installs Dist::Zilla so he can install the plugin from HEAD
12:52 judofyr just 58 distributions installed…
12:53 vervain This http://pastie.org/3431536 demonstrates my problem with % if ( stash 'message' || flash 'message' ) {
12:53 vervain Can anyone help with my misunderstanding?
12:55 crab vervain: stash('message') || flash('message')
12:57 vervain \o/  Thank you.
12:57 vervain crab++
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12:59 vervain Interesting: %= stash('foo') || flash('foo') is ok but <%= stash('foo') || flash('foo') > is a syntax error.
13:01 crab sort of like print "x" is ok, but { print "x" ] is not?
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13:02 sri %> not >
13:02 * sri slaps vervain on the back of the head
13:02 * vervain slaps himself on the back of the head...
13:02 vervain Thanks though.
13:24 marcus judofyr: with your fix, it was reduced from 7 to 4 leaks in tt renderer :)
13:25 marcus that is, when it's *not* rendering a template.
13:25 marcus when I render a template, I see about 220 cycles.
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15:47 sri hmm
15:48 sri still unsure about the around_dispatch thing
15:48 sri can anyone think of a real use case for calling $next->() multiple times?
15:49 sri even for internal redirects it is rather impractical
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16:37 tempire sounds like a solution looking for a problem
16:47 * sri nods
16:50 sri i'll just leave it alone now
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16:58 tempire someone who knows/likes python needs to add syntax highlighting support for mojolicious::lite and ep to the pygments library, so github code views will be pretty.
16:58 *¬†tempire is tired of looking at https://github.com/tempire/MojoExample/b‚Äčlob/master/templates/blogs/index.html.ep
16:59 sri +1
16:59 purl 1
16:59 sri full support in prettify.js would be neat too
17:00 sri it mostly looks good already though
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21:00 vervain Watch it marcus you might go blind. :-)
21:00 marcus Vervain: hmm?
21:01 vervain Your tweet.
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21:02 vervain Sorry... I'm jumping media :-)
21:07 ravenhall quick question: I'm using command line mojo get and I can't seem to find anything in the docs on how to handle NTLM authentication. Is Mojo::UserAgent able to do this?
21:08 marcus Vervain: the ipad has very sharp edges.
21:08 marcus Ravenhall: unlikely.
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21:09 ravenhall marcus: Thanks. That's too bad, it would be really elegant for this.
21:11 marcus Ravenhall: microsoft protocols and 'elegant' is not something i often hear in context ;)
21:12 marcus Ravenhall: I see there's an LWP auth plugin for it. I think you could implement it using authen::ntlm and the ioloop event system.
21:13 ravenhall marcus: lol all too true. The goal though is to sync a file hosted in SharePoint to a production Linux box where I have my Mojo apps
21:13 ravenhall marcus: great tip! Thanks for giving me a tip on where to start digging.
21:14 vervain SharePoint is sheer _hell_
21:14 vervain I feel your paiin.
21:16 ravenhall vervain: yeah and it's being adopted like the New Religion where I work... so my mojo has to at least appear to ineroperate
21:16 ravenhall vervain: err interoperate
21:16 vervain Oh got... ya now I really feel your pain... I've wittness that choke down (and left) at two companies already.
21:17 vervain I'm still waiting on 'wiki support' from the IT team in my current SharePoint hell.
21:17 marcus Glad I never had to touch it.
21:18 marcus Having to use outlook in that remote desktop virtualization crap ms does 3 jobs ago was bad enough.
21:20 marcus All employees on macs == no IT Team :)
21:22 ravenhall marcus: well put.
21:23 ravenhall vervain: unfortunately I don't have that option at this time.. mortgage, kids, etc.
21:23 vervain I hear ya!
21:25 sri http://www.innovation.ch/personal/ronald/ntlm.html # no reason you can't do it with Mojo::UserAgent, it just won't be pretty
21:26 sri 10 times the complexity of Digest for half the security!
21:26 sri very microsoft
21:28 ravenhall sri: omg I never looked into NTLM that closely.. talk about taking HTTP header abuse to a new level. So I guess (for example) curl's -ntlm option handles all this back and forth..
21:33 ravenhall sri: I was hoping to slap together an ojo one-liner and cron it... I should have known with M$ $harePoint it could never be that easy.
21:35 sri (not that i like Digest, wouldn't want that in core either ;p)
21:36 sri what i wouldn't mind is a clever plugin api
21:37 vervain Can curl do it? If so you could cron a curl one liner?
21:38 ravenhall vervain: yep just threw one together, and it works.
21:38 vervain Cool beans!
21:38 vervain And TAKE THAT IT Team :-)
21:38 ravenhall vervain: I'm gonna have to take a look at curl's --ntlm code.. there has to be a way to plug that into my mojo
21:39 sri use WWW::Curl?
21:40 ravenhall sri: good point. I have a talent for overlooking the obvious sometimes.
21:41 vervain See... proof... SharePoint rots your brain! :-)
21:41 ravenhall sri: Luckily in this case, it's just mirroring a spreadsheet from SharePoint to pull in data for a mojo app
21:41 ravenhall vervain: yeah, I think everything from M$ rots the brain.
21:43 ravenhall sri: I can see though that later on, mimicking $harePoint integration is going to be important.. people here really think (for example) that its email/im notifications are a Really Neat Thing.
21:44 ravenhall sri: So I can foresee them wanting my apps to have similar behavior and/or take actions based on them.
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21:54 ravenhall catch you all on the flip side sometime
21:54 ravenhall thanks for the help
21:57 tempire sharepoint!
21:57 purl hmmm... sharepoint is that but more geared toward group document management or ugly, feeble ornamentation over a severely crippled windows "file system"
21:57 tempire they have wiki support...sort of.
21:57 tempire it's vile.
21:58 tempire and not versioned.
21:58 tempire everything ends up being encased in a word doc.
21:59 tempire often a word doc saying "go to [this] wiki for more information"
21:59 tempire and you download a new word doc every time you want to see it.  100 of the same word doc in ~downloads?  of course!
21:59 * tempire shudders
22:00 tempire I'm sure there's a way to efficiently use it.  but I never knew it.
22:08 sri eeeeeeep
22:09 sri http://www.slideshare.net/simon/evented-io‚Äč-based-web-servers-explained-using-bunnies # :)
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22:45 tempire sri, marcus, crab, anyone else.  what would you say makes mojolicious unique, other than no deps.
22:46 sri tempire: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicio‚Äčus/Guides/FAQ#How_does_Mojolicious_co‚Äčmpare_to_other_Perl_web_frameworks3F
22:46 tempire lulz.  not necessary in relation to web frameworks.
22:47 tempire in terms of the perl community
22:47 tempire I'm probing for opinions.
22:47 sri more innovation, just look at the stuff people cloned from mojolicious
22:48 tempire is there a list of that stuff?
22:48 sri we try a lot of new stuff and abandon it again if it doesn't work out
22:49 sri nope, but microtemplate and forward::routes appear to be rather popular for example
22:49 tempire come to think of it, is there a list somewhere of all the google code-in projects?
22:51 sri even the growing concept has been adapted in Amon2
22:58 sri overall, i think optimizing for fun is a pretty big contrast to most projects
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22:59 sri many frameworks are designed for people who hate web development and just want to get it over with
23:00 alnewkirk *message*
23:00 sri development speed is just a side effect of fun for us
23:01 alnewkirk ... still waiting on the Mojolicious hardback book
23:01 * sri too
23:02 tempire sounds like sponsorship job for nordaaker!
23:14 sri oh my, biggest catalyst site has been hacked and all passwords leaked
23:16 alnewkirk ummm, yikes
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23:17 tempire oh dear
23:17 tempire what is it?
23:17 purl it's it!
23:17 sri that will end marriages and political careers :)
23:17 tempire I want to go sign up
23:18 sri it's youporn of course
23:18 tempire oh. I'll skip it then.
23:19 tempire lulz.  on the internet: "The Youporn hacked database is obviously a fake: I cannot find any of my active accounts."
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23:35 vervain LOL!

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