Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2012-02-26

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Time Nick Message
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00:59 garu sri: have you seen the "anonymous pro" font? http://www.ms-studio.com/F​ontSales/anonymouspro.html
00:59 * garu doesn't know squat about fonts but heard it was supposed to be a nice font, specially for coding
01:18 sri garu: yea, but don't like it much
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03:22 GitHub98 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/tkL5Yw
03:22 GitHub98 [mojo/master] split up Mojolicious::Guides::Cheatsheet into more reference documentation - Sebastian Riedel
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03:24 sri i'd really like a more complete cheatsheet in the wiki
03:24 sri maybe including controller methods and helpers
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03:30 GitHub72 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/YNDGRg
03:30 GitHub72 [mojo/master] fixed a few environment variable references - Sebastian Riedel
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03:36 sri i'm sure some will miss the core cheatsheet, but it's constantly out of sync with reference docs and maintaining it has become rather tedious
03:42 sri it could be so much more if maintained by someone who cares
03:43 sri in fact, i'd love a real pdf cheatsheet
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04:01 GitHub169 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/c4zubQ
04:01 GitHub169 [mojo/master] moved list of reserved stash values to Mojolicious::Controller - Sebastian Riedel
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04:02 sri ok, that should make keeping the list in sync very easy :)
04:15 tempire sri: problems with filevault?
04:15 sri tempire: none whatsoever
04:15 tempire I'm resisting.  I'm going to wait a week to see if you explode.
04:15 sri i'm not even noticing it's active
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04:38 GitHub161 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/n5de8g
04:38 GitHub161 [mojo/master] simplify guide headers - Sebastian Riedel
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04:59 GitHub87 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/02fXCA
04:59 GitHub87 [mojo/master] mention environment variables in all affected modules - Sebastian Riedel
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06:06 geck so I'm having a heck of a time getting websockets working..
06:08 geck Keep on getting Can't locate object method "receive message" via Mojolicious::Controller
06:08 geck even on example code :/
06:08 geck http://paste2.org/p/1916217
06:09 geck note, the comments + extra whistespace at the top of the paste offeset the error message by 5 lines
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07:17 tempire geck: not sure where you got receive_message from
07:18 tempire http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/​Mojolicious/Lite#WebSockets
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08:14 tempire I guess I'm going to have to make Mojolicious::Command::deploy a separate module.  It's a little strange, since it doesn't do much of anything.
08:15 tempire but otherwise, all deploy commands would have to be included in the distribution.
08:22 crab what does it do?
08:22 tempire oh wow.
08:22 tempire it's for deploy heroku
08:23 crab why oh wow?
08:23 tempire but just like Mojolicious::Command::generate, deploy itself just passes on to the sub command
08:23 tempire oh wow was for the next comment: search.cpan.org has a tool to show diffs between releases.
08:23 tempire never noticed it before
08:23 tempire internal server error :s
08:24 tempire works now - this is super useful.
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08:43 poundyz hi all
08:43 poundyz for the mojo::template .. how can i define a temporary variable inside .ep and use it later?
08:44 poundyz i try various of <% <=%  my $var = 'blah' %> but later when I refer $var it tell me no such class
08:46 crab % my $var = 'blah'; works fine
08:46 crab <% my $var ... %> should also work fine
08:50 poundyz crab: it's seem when i declared as <% my $var = 'blah' %> , the %> (ending the perl command/etc) part doesn't end properly. it complaining my next line which is pure html tag
08:50 poundyz <% my $var = 'blah' %>
08:50 poundyz <some_html>content</some_html>
08:50 poundyz var = <%= $var %>
08:51 poundyz something like that ... but it's complaining error on the line <some_html>....
08:52 crab ;
08:55 poundyz crab: ok i got it. thanks
08:57 poundyz can we use sed/regex in mojo::template ? e.g. something like % my title = (stash 'blah' =~ m/^THIS/i) ? 'THIS IS A' : 'ELSE B' ;
09:03 crab sure. it's perl.
09:04 crab but do stash('blah') =~ ...
09:06 poundyz crab: thanks for the tip. I was messing with it with missing bracket ... it's kept return me true and I was wondering what's wrong for 30mins :D
09:11 crab a lot of people seem to run into that particular problem
09:11 crab e.g. stash 'foo' eq 'bar'
09:17 crab hm. it might make sense to put a ($) prototype on the helper.
09:17 crab sri/tempire/marcus: any thoughts?
09:17 purl any thoughts are welcome =)
09:21 * crab launches purl from a catapult into a pig
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10:56 rhaen j,.
10:56 rhaen hm.
10:56 rhaen my Mongo Talk isn't accepted so far.
10:57 rhaen Great, I am switching to redis...
11:04 tempire for yapc?
11:06 rhaen tempire: no, for MongoDB@Berlin which is one of 10gens local conference series in Germany
11:06 rhaen tempire: The talk would be about empowering young professionals
11:07 rhaen It's incredible easy to develop a web application with Mojolicious and MongoDB
11:07 rhaen that's what I did at my last company. The sysadmins enjoyed it and the app was kind of cool
11:07 rhaen so it's more a social talk than a pure tech talk.
11:08 vervain Easy isn't for old professionals. :-)
11:08 vervain Whoops... that was supposed to be a question ;-)
11:09 rhaen vervain: brrr! :)
11:10 rhaen what's cool - we could push Mojolicious a little bit.
11:10 rhaen Anyway - the talk is accepted for MongoDB@meetup
11:10 rhaen So that's a local meetup here in Munich.
11:12 rhaen if you use the twitter bootstrap you'll get something very cool real quick
11:24 crab for some values of very cool
11:24 rhaen true.
11:27 trone I'm undecided if get data from files with an helper or with a Mojolicious app attribute. Mmm...
11:28 trone helpers are SO convenients …
11:31 tempire trone: helpers are run every time, attributes only once.
11:33 trone tempire: yes. This is exactly the point that make me to think. :) Indeed I should to decide if I prefer re-load every time my data (helper) or manage them as attribute (populated first time that I call the right controller)
11:34 trone and maybe refresh them on external event...
11:34 trone refresh could to be an opportunity, not a requirement … for now. :)
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13:25 sri crab: how?
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14:25 sri geck: the websocket api is still experimental and changing
14:26 sri both, receive_message and send_message don't exist anymore
14:27 * marcus survived child birthday
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15:09 GitHub148 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/UqLXqQ
15:09 GitHub148 [mojo/master] added experimental PATCH support - Sebastian Riedel
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15:09 sri i have a feeling PATCH will become a thing :)
15:11 hide I was going to ask :)
15:45 vervain How do we do recursive blocks in templates?
15:48 vervain Ah... define your block name first... my $block; and then define it $block = begin... $block('foo')... end
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16:35 geck sri: ah
16:40 crab people still haven't figured out PUT and POST, what use is PATCH going to be in the larger scheme of things?
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16:46 sri crab: remains to be seen, but it's getting enough attention to at least become popular
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16:51 sri crab: but correct use would be POST = create resource, PUT = replace resource, PATCH = modify resource
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17:03 crab well, i do understand that
17:04 crab ;-)
17:05 Netfeed huh, thought PUT was for modify
17:05 vervain Netfeed:  If I remember right PUT need a full description of item where PATCH can be partial?
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17:07 Netfeed hmm ok
17:09 hide that's what I read
17:09 sri http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5789
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17:16 crab netfeed: you can use PUT to effect a modification, but you have to replace the entrie resource with the modified version
17:16 crab not by sending the modifications (which is what PATCH does)
17:17 sri i like JSON Patch as an example
17:17 sri http://tools.ietf.org/html/​draft-pbryan-json-patch-04
17:17 sri your resource could be a json document
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17:31 Netfeed crab: ah
17:36 crab sri: what do you think about api versioning using the Accept header? (Accept: application/json+myappv1 or whatever)
17:36 sri actually not a fan
17:38 sri but for pragmatic reasons, it's rather hard to work around browser limitations with that kind of versioning
17:39 sri methods are easy to work around with a hidden form value, accept hacks are much more tricky
17:41 * marcus hides sri's methods.
17:41 sri :(
17:50 crab sri: yeah, that's been my general feeling too. also, i'm not sure changing the media type can encapsulate all changes you might make to the api
17:53 crab hm. though i suppose you could, if you really tried hard.
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18:09 sri tempire: btw. filevault2 is still working :)
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18:10 sri still not noticing a difference, and i've started many programs, used git, ran tests, compiled stuff...
18:11 sri backup speed to an encrypted time machine drive also seems equally fast
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19:29 tempire I've been waiting for patch to take hold.  It makes so much sense.
19:30 tempire Guess someone with cloud just needed to make the statement.
19:30 tempire *clout
19:30 tempire without it, you have to overload the intent of post and put
19:31 tempire let's add patch!  it's the hip thing to do!
19:36 tempire json patch is interesting...but I'm not sure it's a good idea.
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19:38 GitHub94 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Bs9VfA
19:38 GitHub94 [mojo/master] deprecated class and method stash values in favor of controller and action - Sebastian Riedel
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19:38 tempire it requires prior knowledge of the json structure, but why should the client care about the json structure?
19:38 tempire Shouldn't the client just care about the key/value being replaced? seems like a form already handles that.
19:39 sri did anyone here even know class/method stash values existed? :)
19:40 sri total waste...
19:40 sri tempire: json patch is why json pointer was created ;p
19:41 sri i don't care much for it yet either
19:41 sri but it might turn out to be important for syncing data structures between client and server
19:42 tempire I didn't know about class/method.  Duplicates of controller/action?
19:42 sri class used to be controller without camelizing
19:43 sri method was there to make class/action not feel awkward
19:43 sri then camelize() got smarter and class became useless
19:43 sri now it's forgotten legacy
19:44 tempire loved that game
19:44 tempire forgotten legacy 3 was better, though.
19:45 * sri doesn't know the game :(
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19:46 tempire lulz.  it's not game.  sounds like one, though.
19:46 * sri trademarks
19:46 purl trademarks are associated with a certain set of products I thought.
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19:47 GitHub75 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Prmphw
19:47 GitHub75 [mojo/master] fixed typo in Changes - Sebastian Riedel
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19:47 * sri starts to like the new hypnotoad log messages
19:48 tempire they're a good idea.
19:48 sri i always wanted to keep server and app separated, but hypnotoad config/log code interacting with the app makes it a lot better
19:49 sri wonder where to draw the line
19:50 tempire where's the point that they cross?
19:51 sri point?
19:51 purl point is to specifically define what you provide so you can ensure things work together. ... rather like an OS vendor
19:51 tempire you're implying that they aren't separated cleanly, I want to know how...not sure how to ask the question, though.
19:52 sri ah, hypnotoad used to only load the app and leave it alone afterwards
19:52 sri now it extracts the config and steals the logger too
19:52 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/mas​ter/lib/Mojo/Server/Hypnotoad.pm#L128
19:52 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/ma​ster/lib/Mojo/Server/Hypnotoad.pm#L95
19:53 marcus I think those should actually should be viewed as shared services.
19:53 sri there is still separation, but hypnotoad is more mojolicious aware
19:53 marcus Rather than properties of the spp.
19:53 marcus Servers and apps both need logging and configuration.
19:53 sri marcus: how would that work?
19:54 marcus It makes sense for the mojolicious framework to provide it.
19:54 sri or do you mean on a meta level?
19:54 marcus Yes.
19:54 sri ah ok
19:54 * sri thinks he agrees
19:54 sri but that interaction could go further
19:55 sri there could be low level hooks to allow diagnostics plugins for example
19:55 tempire damnit.  I was about to go in that direction.
19:55 * tempire takes credit anyway
19:55 sri :)
19:56 tempire that would give a clean framework for the hypnotoad diagnostics you were talking about.
19:56 sri hypnotoad could start emitting events
19:56 marcus Which would make the ioloop another shared service.
19:57 sri ioloop is a singleton though, more shared than config and log
20:03 sri diagnostics are hard, lets go shopping
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20:16 geck ok, I have websockets working half decently now..
20:16 geck sri: how much does that API change?
20:16 geck e.g. if I write code against it can I expect to udpate it weekly/monthly/couple times a year?
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20:16 sri if it's experimental the only sensible expectation would be that everything can change
20:16 geck and that's fine
20:17 geck the question is one of keeping up with those changes
20:17 sri i have no plans to change it atm, but that doesn't mean much :)
20:17 geck understood :)
20:17 geck nice implementation, btw
20:18 sri glad you like it
20:18 sri the api has changed maybe 3 times during the last year
20:19 geck that explains it
20:19 purl Damn right it does.
20:19 geck I kept on finding tutorials that just didn't work
20:19 sri the implementation changed more often, since the spec was only finalized a few weeks ago ;)
20:19 sri (protocol spec)
20:19 tempire geck: mojolicio.us/perldoc is always the best place to go.  there's a good bet there's an example for whatever you want to do.
20:20 sri the w3c api spec is actually still in development
20:20 geck about to say, I didn't think it was actually finalized yet
20:20 geck the documentation is as bad as you would expect for a protocol that's under development
20:20 * geck glares at mozilla
20:21 sri worst is the contradicting documentation for older versions
20:21 tempire I wouldn't expect mozilla to have good examples, since they only support it in beta.
20:21 sri and vendor prefixes!
20:21 geck ya, vendor prefixes
20:21 geck the docs said that was gone as of 9
20:21 geck but all my FF10 installs still require MozWebSocket objects
20:23 sri i'm just glad the protocol is now stable
20:24 geck ya, it's a piece of tech with a crapload of potential
20:27 marcus agree
20:27 marcus yay for craploads
20:27 marcus sri: I'm on an ipad and you can't tell :D
20:28 sri :o
20:28 marcus \o/ for ipad keyboard
20:28 marcus even tho apple discontinued it.
20:28 marcus it's actually really for ipad 1.
20:29 marcus I'll be getting a bluetooth keyboard for home in the mail soon tho.
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21:13 omega does anyone know of a css diff tool that works?
21:18 alnewkirk wait... what?
21:18 purl Sure, I can wait. I've got plenty of time. It's you mortal meat bags that need to hurry
21:19 alnewkirk omega: what would be the difference between that and a regular text file diff tool?
21:21 omega alnewkirk: a css diff tool would understand the css?
21:21 omega ignore whitespace, comments etc
21:22 omega like an xml diff tool ignores the layout, and looks at the content
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21:27 alnewkirk omega: i see
21:28 alnewkirk ... if it were me, i'd use csstidy to format both files in the same manner, then diff them
21:28 alnewkirk ... tis what i'd do
21:33 omega didn't work all that well for my purpose, but thanks for the tip :)
21:34 alnewkirk np
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21:42 omega csstidy didn't change #AAA to #aaa for instance
21:42 omega ahh, has some options
21:43 omega oh well, tomorrow
21:43 purl o/~ the sun will come out.. tomorrow.. o/~ or the National Day of Slayer, and the National Emo Kid Beatdown day, by http://www.nationaldayofslayer.org/ and http://community.livejourna​l.com/wtf_inc/2805832.html or tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow creeps in this petty pace or mañana or free for all or another day or the name of the pitcher
21:43 alnewkirk indeed, manuals are your friend
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22:58 GitHub171 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/y-ru6w
22:58 GitHub171 [mojo/master] better descriptions for a few Mojolicious methods - Sebastian Riedel
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