Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2012-02-29

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Time Nick Message
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02:24 tempire \o/
02:24 tempire modern perl pdfs are back
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08:42 marcus yay
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08:45 poundyz hi all
08:46 poundyz for the mojo template ... is there anyway to unescape the content of <%= $var %>? i'm actually pulling out xml/html code from db ... and the template engine auto escape for me
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08:49 poundyz nvm, found it .. it's b($var)
08:51 memowe poundyz: another way: <%== $var %>
08:52 poundyz oh that's nice to know, thanks memowe
08:52 memowe http://mojolicio.us/perldoc​/Mojo/Template#DESCRIPTION
08:53 memowe b creates a Mojo::ByteStream object, the effect is the same.
08:54 poundyz memowe: if I need to sed the $var can I do something like <%== $var.replace(/regex1/, 'blah') %> or something similar like TemplateToolkit ?
08:55 memowe poundyz: ep templates are just Perl.
08:55 memowe %# (my $foo = $bar) =~ s/baz/quux/;
08:55 memowe %= $foo
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11:34 marcus Karma Police / I've given all I can / It's not enough
11:58 vervain If there are two routes that match is it the first or last wins?
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12:20 batman is there a way to make functions running inside the IOLoop die when they die?
12:20 batman looks like they the exceptions are lost in space now...
12:20 batman s/they/the/
12:24 marcus if a function dies in the ioloop, and nobody hears it, does it make a sound?
12:25 batman :)
12:25 batman can i hear it?
12:26 amirite hmm the rails like screencasts (ep 1 through 4) then i see ep 5 and i'm suddenly interested
12:26 amirite s/) then/) put me off, then/
12:26 marcus amirite: you didn't like the mojocasts?
12:27 amirite they're fine, i just don't like rails
12:27 amirite they remind me of rails
12:27 marcus mojo isn't very much like rails tho.
12:27 marcus more like merb and sinatra
12:28 amirite i think it was the helpers and sub-routines for generating html tags that made me make the association
12:28 amirite in any case my new job does mojo so i'm going to learn it =)
12:29 marcus yay
12:29 marcus amirite: where do you work?
12:29 marcus unless it's secret of course :)
12:29 amirite yeah i dunno i just signed an nda/nca i don't want them to think i'm a risk if anybody is around :P
12:30 marcus :D
12:30 marcus fairy snuff.
12:33 vervain I'm trying to put a ->get() onto a bridge... is this possible?  Everything looks right...but it doesn't match.
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12:33 vervain If I change nothing but turning the $bridge->get() into a $route->route() it works fine
12:33 vervain s/$route/$bridge/
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12:35 marcus batman: ser veldig ut som callback events i ioloopen emitter en 'error' event hvis de dør.
12:35 marcus oops, wrong language :-/
12:35 marcus sorry
12:36 batman :)
12:37 judofyr haha
12:37 judofyr nice one
12:37 batman i tried Mojo::IOLoop->iowatcher->on(error => sub { warn @_ });
12:37 marcus batman look at _sandbox in IOWatcher.
12:38 marcus judofyr: at least batman understands it...
12:38 judofyr :)
12:39 Netfeed that's at least readable compared to danish :)
12:40 marcus Netfeed: it's quite similar to danish.
12:40 batman probably beacuse more than 50% of the words wasn't really norwegian :P
12:40 Netfeed marcus: i know, but danish is terrible none the less
12:40 marcus Netfeed: danish is only really bad when spoken, imo.
12:40 marcus ;)
12:41 * marcus hides from cph.pm
12:41 judofyr Netfeed: marcus speaks the truth. reading danish = no problemo. listening = what the fuck?
12:41 marcus judofyr: netfeed is swedish, iirc
12:41 Netfeed maybe for a norwegian person :)
12:41 Netfeed marcus: aye
12:42 judofyr appearently I joined #mojo-the-scandinavian-corner today!
12:42 marcus SCANDINAVIANS ARE TAKING OVER MOJO
12:42 marcus HALP
12:42 marcus purl: hypnotoad?
12:42 purl ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!!
12:42 judofyr ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOVIKINGS
12:43 Netfeed what a terrible force of power that would have been
12:45 marcus raping, pillaging and hypnotizing.
12:49 marcus arne has styled judofyr to look like an unicorn.
12:50 judofyr \o/
12:53 vervain Can anyone help with the difference in the two bridged routes here... the route() works.. the get() doesn't... they us the '/:foo', foo=>'restricted'' paradigm: http://pastie.org/3487920
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13:25 vervain My answer seem to lie in $bridge->(DEFINITION)->via('GET')->to....
13:26 vervain I hope folks don't mind me answering my own questions... I do it for search posterity.
13:27 vervain correction: $bridge->route(DEFINITION)
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15:05 marcus sri: I'm seeing some strange behavior with the PSGI adapter - https://gist.github.com/1941378
15:05 marcus this happens when a mojo useragent async request gets a 404.
15:07 sri marcus: i don't use psgi
15:07 marcus sri: Me neither.
15:07 marcus it's a client :-/
15:09 sri i've been wondering if we need a 3rd tier framework, some kind of pure dsl baby mojolicious with very few features specifically for perl beginners
15:20 judofyr sri: how would that compare to Lite?
15:20 sri it would be simpler
15:20 sri more dsl, less extendable
15:21 judofyr I'm not really a fan of dumbing down stuff for beginners though
15:22 sri neither am i, but what else could we do?
15:23 judofyr is it a real problem?
15:23 sri we've had a few beginners give up recently i think
15:24 sri or switch to actually dumbed down frameworks
15:27 sri truth is, many perl programmers are quite a bit behind the mainstream when it comes to web technologies
15:28 sri it's really hard to get them to learn new technologies
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15:29 memowe Are we talking about beginners or programmers which are behind mainstream in web tech?
15:29 sri both i guess
15:29 memowe What featureset do you have in mind?
15:30 sri just the basics, simple routes, POST/GET params...
15:30 memowe Sweet name suggestion: Molli :D
15:31 memowe (Mo-jolicious::L-ite Li-te)
15:32 Netfeed Jojo, from Mojo Jojo in the powerpuff girls :P
15:33 vervain I thought that this is what lite does... I found Lite a bad distraction when just starting to learn... a third would make that even worse.
15:34 memowe I think it would make the growing process harder.
15:34 sri what other options are there?
15:34 vervain I do think that there is a HUGE place for a 'Practical Mojolicious' set of tutorials/walkthroughs.
15:35 sri we don't have the professional writers
15:35 vervain The Guides are great but so broken up and piecemeal that it's often hard to realize the practicality of what you are learning.
15:35 vervain I'm planning on developing training courses... that could be a start.
15:36 vervain But I have to get an app out the door first.
15:49 marcus I'm also thinking about making a workshop and offering it to clients.
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16:15 crab i've started writing something that might be like a tutorial.
16:16 crab sri: i could be described as a professional writer, albeit somewhat loosely. but i have more than once written things to earn my living. ;-)
16:17 crab i also don't think there's any need for any extra-simplified framework.
16:18 sri ruby looks funny when you mix {} and do/end blocks
16:19 inokenty1 Hi fellows. When do we expect a new mojocast?
16:19 * sri wonders if ruby/sinatra beginners have the exact same problems http://www.sinatrarb.com/intro
16:20 crab it's hard to decide what to cover, though.
16:21 sri then again, more ruby beginners already know web technologies i suppose
16:21 crab i'm trying to figure out how to structure it so that there's a way to bolt on stuff later in a sensible way
16:21 sri maybe the lack of web technology knowledge is a perl specific problem
16:22 vervain sri: What makes you say that?
16:22 sri vervain: when i see beginners stumble it's usually not about mojolicious specific things
16:23 sri just basic understanding of how the web works
16:23 vervain I concur... seems that HTTP gets int he way more... but I think that's the same for Ruby.
16:24 vervain I know a lot of web developers that really do not want to drop down to transport let alone network layers.
16:24 sri it's rather common that i had to say "this is not a mojolicious specific problem" and beginners get all upset
16:25 vervain They're not upset that it's not a M problem.. they are upset that they're not finding the help they need.
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16:25 sri but take the sinatra documentation for example
16:25 sri it assumes a lot of http knowledge and gets away with it
16:26 vervain Not htat this channel should solve that problem... but a good 'here's how to learn perl, have a groovy dev environment, using M, css, html and JS to get a shiney new thing'
16:26 vervain ^ in 1000 words or less. :-)
16:26 vervain I'll have to review the Sinatra docs before I can compare.
16:27 sri isn't that exactly what i said? something that explains the basics? ;p
16:27 vervain Ya... I wasn't disagreeing for once :)
16:27 sri oh :)
16:29 vervain I don't know what it's like now... but "Learning Perl" in the mid 90's did exactly what i"m talking about... it walked you through building a little cgi web app.
16:29 vervain I think that M is perfect for something like that now.
16:29 sri we've actually had quite a few perl devs coming from CGI.pm
16:30 vervain Throw in perlbrew and git and newbies can get a heck of a lot really quickly.
16:30 vervain Ya - I've noticed that... I'm a little surprised that they managed to skip right over Catalyst.
16:30 vervain Maybe it's just a timing thing.
16:31 sri many have also started writing raw PSGI scripts from what i've seen
16:31 sri because it's so close to CGI.pm -.-
16:31 sri yet cool...
16:32 sri i'm a bit puzzled by that
16:32 sri and that's where the baby mojolicious idea comes from
16:33 sri hmm, is gmail dead?
16:37 vervain Slow...but not dead... for me.
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16:40 marcus sri: seems the problem I have is the same batman was complaining about earlier. Shouldn't mojolicious actually warn or something when your callbacks die?
16:40 sri my Sparrow keeps timing out
16:42 sri marcus: i've not seen any code yet
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16:54 GitHub138 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/0bdYig
16:54 GitHub138 [mojo/master] fixed small inconsistency between Mojo::IOWatcher and Mojo::IOWatcher::EV where Mojo::IOWatcher would not stop automatically without watchers - Sebastian Riedel
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16:57 GitHub99 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/J5T_Aw
16:57 GitHub99 [mojo/master] updated descriptions of start methods - Sebastian Riedel
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17:02 sri marcus: works for me perl -Mojo -E'Mojo::IOLoop->timer(1 => sub { die "wakawakawaka"}); Mojo::IOLoop->start'
17:02 sri but i've found that little inconsistency above because of that test :)
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17:24 GitHub126 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/smbxcw
17:24 GitHub126 [mojo/master] fixed Mojo::IOLoop to clean up after itself - Sebastian Riedel
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17:28 tempire inokenty: hopefully monday.  technical difficulties have prevented a release.
17:28 inokenty Okay, thanks
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17:51 sri wonder how many tests that last change could help speed up
17:56 sri by dropping event watcher instead of stopping with a timeout
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18:07 sri btw. anyone got a better name for the t() function in ojo?
18:28 DaTa P() ? :)
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18:28 GitHub22 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mTGYEQ
18:28 GitHub22 [mojo/master] removed experimental status from PATCH support - Sebastian Riedel
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18:29 sri uppercase, seriously?
18:29 sri btw. we use u() for PUT already
18:37 tempire t seems the most sensible
18:47 tempire maybe c
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18:47 tempire no.  t is better.
18:53 sri c() is already in use
18:54 sri in fact, we cna now write p(a(t(c(h()))))
18:54 sri :D
18:54 inokenty =)
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19:34 tempire Twitter for Mac has been broken for days for me
19:34 tempire twitter support doesn't respond.
19:34 tempire Guess that's the end of twitter for me
19:34 tempire :(
19:56 sri works for me
20:04 alnewkirk whats the mojolicious method for always executing before/after a route?
20:05 alnewkirk ... mojo docs make you dig for this information
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20:48 GitHub69 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/dxjTVA
20:48 GitHub69 [mojo/master] added hook recipe to routing guide - Sebastian Riedel
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20:50 alnewkirk thank you kind sir
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20:56 GitHub167 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/vrVIrA
20:56 GitHub167 [mojo/master] a few more documentation tweaks - Sebastian Riedel
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21:01 sri the example is prolly not ideal, but it't the best i could think of atm
21:02 poundyz can hypnotoad run on other port than 8080?
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21:11 inokenty poundyz: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/​Mojo/Server/Hypnotoad#listen
21:11 poundyz thanks
21:11 inokenty ./script.pl daemon --listen http://*:80
21:20 alnewkirk good enough for me :)
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21:29 sri hmm, maybe a few recipes should be removed from the Mojolicious::Lite tutorial
21:31 sri the growing section there for example is pretty dated
21:32 sri not sure about the WebSockets section
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21:34 GitHub12 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/fwTx6g
21:34 GitHub12 [mojo/master] removed growing section from lite tutorial - Sebastian Riedel
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21:51 GitHub33 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/uKhx4g
21:51 GitHub33 [mojo/master] tweaked routing examples a bit - Sebastian Riedel
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21:53 marcus sri: Made a simple get example, and it logged the error event, so not sure what's going on in our scenario. Will have to dig further at work tomorrow.
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22:17 tempire the new hook description is excellent
22:18 marcus hooked on a hook
22:29 * marcus kinda likes working on the terminal on the ipad.
22:29 tempire masochist
22:29 marcus had to remap esc to F6 since this keyboard only has a home button where the esc is tho =)
22:30 marcus tempire: with a keyboard
22:30 marcus it's soothing
22:30 tempire ah.  ok.
22:30 tempire WHYCANTILOGINTOTWITTER
22:30 marcus tried another client?
22:31 marcus I use YoruFukuruo
22:31 tempire adium works
22:31 marcus yorufukurou even
22:32 marcus it has lots of nice keybindings :)
22:33 tempire hmm
22:33 tempire yorokfuokuro isn't bad
22:33 tempire though not as pretty as the official client
22:33 marcus I agree, but it's more functional.
22:34 marcus the official client seems to be bitrotting since the author left twitter.
22:34 marcus (@atebits)
22:34 tempire Took me moment to realize that bi-trotting wasn't some sort of political jab.
22:40 marcus tempire: hah. no, bit rot is a real serious problem :)
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