Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2012-06-10

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:25 GitHub140 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/tnS4dA
00:25 GitHub140 [mojo/master] explain that WebSocket handshakes are just normal GET requests - Sebastian Riedel
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00:34 tempire would you agree that json pointers are a relatively unknown?
00:36 * sri agrees
00:38 ispy_ hi all, quick question while working on televisionsuicide.com ... I'm trying to use the hypnotoad.conf file, I've set it to listen at port 80, yet when I run hypnotoad as root on my aws server it seems to ignore hypnotoad.conf and go straight to port 8080. Any ideas? I'm stumped :(
00:39 sri conf files were deprecated half a year ago and are gone
00:39 ispy_ oh wow.
00:40 ispy_ I've been using it on after5detroit.com for a few months now... I guess I'm reading older stuff.
00:40 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojol​icious/Guides/Cookbook#Hypnotoad
00:40 ispy_ Ok, I'll take a look. Thanks!
00:44 sri tempire: to be fair, json pointers are still being worked on
00:54 sri and i'm pretty sure Mojo::JSON::Pointer is not spec compliant
00:55 sri escaping is not right yet
01:00 mikegrb anybody here headed to madison?
01:01 sri tempire will be there
01:14 tempire complete with bells on
01:14 tempire or at least shoes
01:14 tempire probably two of them
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01:31 sri also consider pants
01:54 mikegrb pants are over rated
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02:06 * crab tries to figure out what idea sri wanted him to look at
02:11 crab /last crab sucks as a way to review stuff
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03:10 sri i think i hate json pointers now
03:29 sri crab: how come you've never implemented json pointer escaping?
03:31 sri aaah
03:31 sri it did not exist back then
03:31 sri ok, this is bullshit
03:32 sri if the json pointer spec looked back then like it does now i would have veto'd the addition
03:33 sri /foo^/ba^^r/baz
03:33 sri that's how escaping looks now...
03:34 sri that tokenizes into ['foo/ba^r', 'baz']
03:35 sri tempire, marcus, crab: what do we do about that?
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03:55 crab sri: christ
03:55 crab sri: that's ugly and horrible (and yes, it didn't exist then)
03:55 crab i think we should ignore it.
03:56 sri but we call it json pointers too :S
03:56 crab sri: we mentioned that we implemented version nn of the draft, right? good enough. leave it at that.
03:57 sri nope, we point to the latest draft
03:57 crab it's just a convenience, not the only way to use a json structure. what we have now is convenient.
03:57 crab oh. well, that's easily fixed?
03:57 crab (when i wrote it, i mentioned nn)
03:57 sri i don't mind ignoring the spec, but question is what would be the best decision going forward
03:58 sri we call it json pointers, and json pointers as in the spec will be used in more new stuff, like json patch
03:59 crab well, i have no interest in implementing any e^s^^^/ca^^ping. if we do nothing, we can see if someone cares enough to send us a patch that implements escaping without breaking anything else.
03:59 sri that could cause a lot of confusion and frustration if someone wants to implement json-patch
04:00 sri implementation is also not a problem, i can do it in 10 mins, the question is what would be the right thing to do
04:00 crab right. so if we explicitly state that we implement version 02 (i think that's what it was), it states the truth and leaves things open to someone who needs the functionality. no confusion.
04:00 crab i know it's not a problem. i'm saying i think _this_ is the right thing to do.
04:01 crab if what we had now wasn't useful, i'd think differently. but it's simple and good. limited, but good.
04:01 sri i guess they did it because %2F often gets filtered by servers
04:06 sri judging by discussions on the list recently it seems ^ escaping is final
04:17 sri damn
04:17 sri %2F is not even the reason...
04:18 sri digging deeper it seems like they just did it because they didn't want to enforce uri escaping and make json pointer more friendly for other representations :S
04:18 sri HOW STUPID IS THAT!
04:29 sri tempire, marcus: opinions!
04:46 crab <tempire, marcus> that's stupid!
04:48 sri "L<Mojo::JSON::Pointer> implements JSON Pointers without caret escaping, because that's stupid."
04:49 crab that'll draw flames. write something nice and neutral, so that nobody even bothers to discuss it.
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04:50 GitHub150 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/t21kLA
04:50 GitHub150 [mojo/master] updated Mojo::JSON::Pointer description - Sebastian Riedel
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04:53 tempire I'd say just implement it.  It is what it is.
04:54 sri :o
04:54 tempire no one has to use escaping, but for the ones that do, they'll expect it
04:55 tempire unless you're talking about creating a more sensible escaping.
04:55 crab you can implement it, if you care enough.
04:55 sri we already have uri escaping
04:56 sri /foo%2Fbar/baz vs /foo^/bar/baz
04:58 tempire I can't help but laugh.  that's such a ridiculous escape symbol I lol every time I see it.
04:59 * tempire lols
04:59 sri they actually started with backslash
04:59 tempire why did they move away from that?
05:00 sri json-patch
05:00 sri i can kinda understand it now
05:00 sri you need a format that also works in json strings
05:01 sri [{ "add": "/baz", "value": "qux" }]
05:01 sri caret escaping is better than backslash and uri escaping there
05:02 sri big flaw however is that they are assuming humans actually read that
05:02 sri uri escaping only makes the implementation so much easier
05:03 sri s/only//
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05:15 GitHub95 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/dUjRvg
05:15 GitHub95 [mojo/master] fixed JSON Pointer escaping - Sebastian Riedel
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05:15 sri now it's in
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05:32 GitHub97 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/LMQ-rw
05:32 GitHub97 [mojo/master] a few more JSON Pointer tests - Sebastian Riedel
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05:46 * sri guesses marcus is oh his way to wwdc
05:49 sri as long as we call it json pointer i think tempire is right about just following the spec
05:50 sri if we decide to use something else it needs a neutral name
05:56 sri oh, just noticed we've reached 200 tags :o
05:58 sri haha, you can see which releases marcus tagged
05:58 sri the slacker never sets a tag message
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06:32 tempire this is interesting: http://blog.emacsen.net/blog/2012/06/07/ob​servations-from-a-python-workshop/?repost
06:33 tempire makes me wonder if #mojo is woman-friendly
06:46 crab alas, not very likely
06:46 sri but also not unfriendly, think it's neutral
06:49 crab it's neutral because there aren't any (known) women around.
06:49 sri there are unknown ones :)
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07:19 * tempire welcomes the unknown neutrals
07:21 * azawawi waves to tempire
07:22 tempire a neutral!
07:23 azawawi lol
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08:16 sri http://www.kickstarter.com​/projects/260688528/clang # best kickstarter video ever
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08:21 sri the gabe newell cameo is priceless
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08:55 marcus sucks that they don't have a level where you get the hardware tho.
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09:15 * sri chains marcus to the channel and makes him talk about his opinion on json pointers
09:15 sri guess we could skip the 2.99 release and go straight for 3.0
09:18 sri then i can finally rename Mojo::CookieJar to Mojo::UserAgent::CookieJar, that has been bugging me for months :)
09:19 sri oh, all deprecated code can be removed too \o/
09:19 sri REMOVE ALL THE THINGS!
09:20 azawawi what are the expected feature in v3?
09:20 azawawi any roadmap?
09:20 azawawi s/feature/features
09:20 sri all the features between 2.0 and 2.98 ;)
09:21 sri the time of big breaking changes is mostly over, everything happens iteratively in minor releases
09:27 tempire iterate all the things1
09:29 sri the roadmap is pretty much empty, just some things for the distant future, like new CSS4 selectors and HTTP/2.0 support
09:31 azawawi i see
09:31 azawawi thx
09:31 azawawi what about Speedy?
09:31 sri if it becomes HTTP/2.0 sure, otherwise unlikely
09:33 sri the SPDY of today doesn't really have a chance anyway
09:34 sri at least the TLS requirement and server push will be removed from the spec
09:36 sri server push is the new HTTP/1.1 pipelining :)
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10:00 GitHub37 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/JyD18w
10:00 GitHub37 [mojo/master] Code name "Rainbow", this will be a major release - Sebastian Riedel
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10:00 sri \o/
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10:01 sri so now is the time to speak up if you have any crazy ideas that require api breakage, or you'll have to wait another year ;p
10:03 * sri pokes tempire, marcus and crab
10:08 sri we should perhaps talk about the future of some questionable features, like json pointer
10:11 sri oh, and of course a challenge for everyone bored, who can implement this in less lines of code? :) https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/​master/lib/Mojo/JSON/Pointer.pm#L12
10:13 sri Mojolicious::Plugin::I18N is another questionable feature
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21:07 tempire wow
21:07 tempire I had no idea substr acted as a magic bullet
21:07 tempire that's so cool
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21:48 * sri disagrees with tempire
21:49 * sri is not a big fan of lvalue magic
21:58 tempire that's half the reason I like perl
21:58 tempire little stuff like that.
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23:02 * tempire dreams of point-free things
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