Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2012-06-23

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 GitHub39 joined #mojo
00:06 GitHub39 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/eXjCAw
00:06 GitHub39 [mojo/master] small optimizations - Sebastian Riedel
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00:07 * marty waves
00:07 * sri waves
00:07 marty Any suggestions on a good alternative to Gimp on mac?
00:07 sri pixelmator
00:08 sri and sketch if you're into vector drawing
00:08 marty Thank you.  I'll go check it out.
00:08 sri both are pretty damn awesome
00:08 marty Not so much vector.  Just photo touch up
00:08 sri pixelmator for sure then
00:08 marty ok.  Thank you for the advice.  I appreciate it.
00:10 sri it might even be on sale atm. says 10 euro on the german app store
00:10 marty oooo  Pixelmator.  Exactly what I was looking for.  \o/
00:11 marty I am just blow away at the quality of the mac stuff.  I don't even want to throw the boxes away cuz they are so nice.  :)
00:11 sri :D
00:12 marty I think I'm going to give it a try and see if I can switch over to a macbook pro as my primary machine.  I hope I can, would be nice to have that freedom of movement.
00:12 sri it's a great dev machine, and even the terminal app is pretty
00:13 marty so If I have stupid mac question in a few week.  please go easy on me.  :)
00:13 sri i think most of us here like talking mac ;)
00:13 marty Ya, I think they have plenty of power to do whatever I need it to do and I just love the build quality.
00:14 marty I've been secretly taking notes on mac topics in here.  Just in case.  :)
00:15 * sri hopes tweetbot for mac gets released soon
00:15 sri SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
00:16 marty lol
00:16 sri if you don't have sparrow for email yet, get it too!
00:16 * marty greps for sparrow
00:17 sri looks like a twitter client, but it's for mail
00:18 sri much less powerful than most email apps, but so nice to use, and the ios app looks just the same
00:19 marty interesting.  Ohhh, it has imap and pop support also.  Nice.
00:19 sri i've only used it with gmail so far
00:19 marty I prefer "simple and fast to use" over lots of options.
00:20 marty Ya, our company uses good docs.  So I should be able to get at mail
00:20 marty s/good/google/
00:20 marty It would be nice to have alternatives to avoid feeding the beast.
00:21 sri yea
00:21 sri but it works so well :S
00:23 sri i suppose you already have xcode command line tools and homebrew
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00:28 marty Nope.  Not yet.   I don't get my macbook for another 3-4 according to apple.  :(   But I got a mini for some other tasks and I'll play with it.   I think I know what xcode is (developement libraries) but homebrew?  not sure
00:29 marty s/3-4/3-4 weeks/
00:29 sri http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/
00:29 sri package management for the usual unix tools
00:30 marty omg!  thank you.  that will make life soooo much easier.
00:30 marty bookmarked!
00:30 sri xcode is the full ide, you only really need the xcode command line tools, which is make/gcc and friends
00:30 sri 160mb vs like 3gb :)
00:31 sri unless of course you want to build gui or iphone apps
00:32 marty ya.  I don't think I'll use the ide, I'll just get the command line tools.  And I'll use my usual editor jedit or maybe play with sublime or textmate.
00:33 sri editor is still a bit tricky, there is (imo) no best one yet
00:33 * sri is still using textmate 1 with a few gui enhancements
00:34 sri had high hopes for chocolat, but they will need more time http://chocolatapp.com
00:34 marty Yup.  I've been following the discussion.  I only use Jedit because I am used to it.  But it would be nice to have a clear "best choice" that most people agreed on.  Then we could tweek some groovy syntax files.  :)
00:35 sri most editors on the mac use textmate syntax files ;)
00:36 marty Ahhh, I did not know that.  I learn something new each day.  :)
00:37 marty So I take it there is some issues with textmate 2?
00:37 sri usability is still way behind tm1
00:37 sri and it's moving sooooooooo slow
00:38 marty Chocolat looks pretty.   Not to mention, it was a rockin Johnny Depp flic. :)
00:39 sri chocolat 1.0 will be released soon, should be interesting
00:39 sri in like a week or so if i remember right
00:40 marty no support (yet) for live errors in perl for cholcolat :(
00:41 sri i don't think any popular editor does that right yet
00:41 sri your best bet there might be komodo
00:42 marty I tried komodo once.  I just never felt the love.
00:42 marty But that was a long time ago.
00:42 sri technically it is pretty good, but the gui is horrible
00:45 marty I wonder if having git integration in an editor would be useful?  I've always used the command line but the thought of clicking does sound tasty. :)
00:45 marty or lazy
00:45 marty :)
00:46 sri i've not seen an editor yet that gets it right
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00:49 marty Seen Prometheus yet?
00:50 sri nope, the bad reviews scared me
00:50 sri maybe i'll just wait for the directors cut ;p
00:51 marty Ya me to.  But I still want to see it.  The wife is gone this weekend visting the grandchildren so I thought I might sneek out and do the sci-fi bachelor thing.  :)
00:51 marty I might wait.  But I am intrigued.  There are some reviewers that liked it. but sounds very loose-ended.
00:52 sri :)
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01:00 sri whatever you do... don't watch battleship!
01:01 marty That bad, huh?  :)
01:01 sri worse
01:01 marty lol
01:03 sri go see avengers if you haven't already
01:03 marty I hope Pixar does not get a terminal case of Disneyism so things like "brave" can hopefully be good.
01:03 marty I really want brave to be good
01:06 sri i have a bad feeling about that movie
01:06 marty They all pale in comparison to the king....  All hail WALL-E!  :)    Well, except maybe Empire of that sun.  That movie rocked.  :)
01:07 marty s/that/the/
01:08 sri on the other hand... they made cars 2
01:08 sri brave can only be better ;p
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02:48 GitHub0 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/LUz8Kg
02:48 GitHub0 [mojo/master] removed class_to_file and class_to_path from Mojo::ByteStream again - Sebastian Riedel
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03:15 tempire what
03:15 tempire brave is going to be awesome.
03:15 tempire but
03:15 tempire suits and burn notice have started up
03:26 * sri has run out of shows to watch :(
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12:29 batman what was this new i18n plugin called?
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14:19 Adam12 When I create my model, should I create it in my mojo app namespace or outisde if it?  Any reccomendations?
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14:44 diegok Adam12: I use to see my models as something my app consume, not part of it. So, outside.
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14:58 * sri really hates design discussions on github
14:59 sri in the future i might just reject everything that hasn't been discussed on irc before :S
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15:36 memowe \oF
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15:42 sri \o\
15:45 jamadam joined #mojo
15:48 jamadam sri: I'm sorry for my late reaction
15:48 * sri waves
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15:49 sri sooo, what would happen to ->{class}, ->namespace and ->type?
15:50 sri ->tree is another problem
15:50 jamadam I have no idea yet on ->{class} and ->namespace
15:50 sri or even ->attr('class')
15:50 jamadam I think type should returns array of types
15:51 sri or ->parent
15:52 sri so ->type would always return an array?
15:53 sri if you do the same for all getters you break pretty much every app that uses Mojo::DOM
15:53 jamadam Yes, I'm just realizing many things to think about.
15:56 sri usability would also suck
15:56 sri if it's consistent even ->at('div') would return a collection
15:57 sri ->at('[href]')->type->[0]
15:58 sri or even (->at('[href]')->type)[0]
15:59 jamadam Do you think keeping current tests If it's possible to be passed is not enough to modify?
15:59 sri you can't pass the current tests
15:59 sri ->{class} is impossible i believe
16:00 sri or you would have to create a huge mess of special cases
16:01 jamadam You mean the overloaded accessor? ->{class}
16:01 sri yes
16:01 sri which is ->attrs->{class}
16:02 jamadam i see. I just realized that problem by your comment on github.
16:02 sri the goal of making it work more like jQuery is to make the API friendlier and easier to understand, special cases would defeat the purpose
16:03 jamadam Yes I think so too
16:03 sri you also shouldn't forget that Mojo::DOM serves a very different purpose than jQuery
16:04 sri ours is more on data extraction, while jQuery rewrites
16:04 sri (just a side note)
16:05 sri s/s/ focus/
16:06 jamadam I'm not sure so for i can't achive what i want without breaking the current API, but if you say I can't, maybe your right
16:07 sri if breaking means it gets a lot better we can break the api, but it would really have to be *a lot* better
16:07 sri major releases like 3.0 can break everything
16:08 sri if you miss 3.0 you'll have to wait another year though ;p
16:08 jamadam Yes that's why I challenged to pull-request
16:09 sri i see
16:09 jamadam But I should come here first
16:09 sri better to just poke me on irc for discussing design
16:09 sri ye :)
16:10 jamadam I will
16:10 sri jamadam++
16:10 jamadam Thanks
16:12 sri actually, i don't think making Mojo::DOM a subclass of Mojo::Collection will ever work, for usability alone
16:12 sri Mojo::DOM::Collection however might
16:13 sri there could be a few additional methods that perform actions on the whole collection
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16:14 jamadam hmm
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16:44 sri not sure how useful it would actually be, i'd really like to see a few real world use cases
16:49 jamadam_ OK!
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17:09 nferraz hey!
17:09 nferraz I just created a new github related to mojolicious
17:09 nferraz https://github.com/nferraz/mojolicious-bootstrap
17:09 nferraz it's a bootstrap-mojolicious boilerplate
17:10 marcus what's wrong with the old one?
17:10 marcus nferraz: https://github.com/tudorconst​antin/Mojolicious-Boilerplate
17:11 nferraz nothing wrong... I just did a minimal one using Mojolicious::Lite
17:11 marcus I'd like to see an actual app generator with bootstrap rather than a sample application tho :)
17:12 nferraz that's a good idea!
17:12 nferraz maybe I can grow this sample in that direction :)
17:21 crab is there something more to do other than dumping bootstrap.css into $dir/public?
17:31 crab seems not.
17:33 marcus crab: also setting up a wrapper with the basic structure, and maybe helpers.
17:35 crab ah, helpers to stick the right classes on form elements and such. makes sense.
17:36 sri is anyone actually using Mojo::Collection without Mojo::DOM?
17:37 marcus yes, I believe so
17:38 crab what for?
17:38 * sri was wondering if it might be a good idea to move it back into the Mojo::DOM namespace
17:39 marcus I'm not sure, just seem to remember answering questions about that.
17:39 * sri has just been playing with this
17:39 sri perl -Ilib -Mojo -E 'say g("mojolicio.us")->dom->find("div")->attrs(class => "works")->root'
17:40 sri t would require Mojo::DOM specific code in the collection class
17:41 sri on the other hand... ignore me
17:41 sri i need a neutral collection class too for that :D
17:42 sri perl -Ilib -Mojo -E 'say g("mojolicio.us")->dom->fi​nd("div")->text->grep(sub {/Mojolicious/})->join("\n")'
17:42 sri ->text could create a collection of text from all elements in the collection
17:44 sri it would be 100% backwards compatible even
17:45 sri since collections returned by Mojo::DOM would simply have a few additional methods
17:48 sri i'm not in a hurry though, we can always add this if requests for more jquery-isms come in
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18:11 sri g("mojolicio.us")->dom->find("div")->attrs(class => "works")->root is a shortcut for g("mojolicio.us")->dom->find("div")->each(sub { shift->attrs(class => "works") })->first->root
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18:15 jamadam_ oh you're genius. How did you do that.
18:19 jamadam_ i've been asking myself why I needed the change and not good answer yet
18:21 sri heh :)
18:21 sri the question i can't answer yet is... what do we need it for?
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18:22 jamadam_ Yes exactly
18:25 jamadam_ When I first used Mojo::DOM, I've confused 'at' and 'find' and wished if find behaved like jQuery
18:26 sri the at/find distinction is from hpricot
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18:27 jamadam_ I didn't now that
18:29 sri a lot is not actually inspired by jquery, but by hpricot and beautiful soup :)
18:29 sri those are better at extracting information than jquery
18:30 jamadam_ ho
18:31 jamadam_ I only knew jquery and have thought the best solution :)
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18:39 Zx3 Hi, how can I get route captures only? Using param gives also from get and post.
18:47 crab ->stash('capturename')
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18:51 Zx3 thanks :)
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19:32 batman hi
19:33 batman what do you think of my 404 and 500 pages: https://www.getbetsy.com/404 https://www.getbetsy.com/500
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19:47 inokenty batman: firefox: http://i50.tinypic.com/nv2hlj.png  google-chrome: http://i49.tinypic.com/2pyrn03.png
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20:07 batman i know. but that wasn't what i asked about :)
20:07 batman thanks anyway
20:10 sri batman: the quotes on your frontpage are broken
20:10 batman i know
20:10 batman or....
20:10 batman i know. but that wasn't what i asked about :)
20:10 batman thanks anyway
20:10 batman :)
20:11 sri batman: yea, but the quotes on your frontpage are broken
20:11 batman i'm fixing, i'm fixing... :)
20:12 sri batman: in case you don't know it yet, the quotes on your frontpage are broken
20:12 * sri hides
20:12 batman :D
20:14 batman can i have as many before_dispatch hooks as i want?
20:15 batman do i need to do anything special to make that work? i'm trying to add a before_dispatch hook in the production_mode() method
20:15 batman production_mode() is called, but not the hook...
20:15 batman oh. sorry. pebkac/chrome
20:21 batman but...no comments on the 500/404 pages..?
20:32 sri batman: compared to the rest of the design they are a bit boring i'm afraid
20:32 batman ok. got any ideas on how to make them more fun?
20:32 sri unicorns :)
20:33 batman :)
20:40 tempire moar ponycorns
20:41 tempire give betsy some appropriate emotions for the error pages
20:42 batman nice input. too bad we don't have any designer any more :/
20:47 sri right, betsy with appropriate emotions would be good
20:47 batman i've added the feedback to trello
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21:33 batman added som oatmeal gfx to the 404 page now... not sure if it helped :P
21:34 GabrielVieira joined #mojo
21:34 batman ..and i've fixed the index page :)
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22:19 GitHub182 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/xiJtQQ
22:19 GitHub182 [mojo/master] better Mojolicious::Command documentation - Sebastian Riedel
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22:52 tempire given the funnyjunk fiasco, you should give oatmeal credit for the graphic
22:52 batman indeed :)
22:53 batman i just tweeted him... will add credit as well
22:54 tempire "Erlend is an experienced entrepreneur, have a great network" -> should be "has a great network"
22:55 batman oh. don't even start. there's so many spelling mistakes in that text :/
22:55 batman but we want to ship later today, so that's not really the focus. will fix it on monday
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23:06 Akron New deployment recipe - Mojolicious under Hypnotoad on Uberspace: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Uberspace
23:07 sri Akron++
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23:11 sri we still need someone to clean up the wiki
23:11 sri think i'll just start deleting pages that look outdated
23:13 sri i've been asking for months now, and some of those pages keep confusing people
23:13 Akron Yes. A restructuring maybe useful as well.
23:14 sri even if i delete something wrong it shouldn't be too bad, since the wiki is a git repo
23:18 sri "Note: These instructions are not relevant for Mojolicious versions 1.98 or higher, as FastCGI support was removed in 1.98."
23:19 sri argh, just remove it then!!!
23:19 Akron Why? There is still the FastCGI driver.
23:19 sri i'm starting to think that the wiki might need a complete reset
23:19 Akron Just link to it.
23:20 sri Akron: don't ask me, i didn't write that
23:20 sri the problem is new users read that
23:20 Akron I meant: Before you delete the page.
23:20 sri ?
23:21 Akron That was just regarding your "remove it" comment.
23:21 sri this starts to get annoying, i think i'll set a deadline and disable the wiki if it's not in a better state afterwards
23:21 Akron What's the alternative?
23:22 sri no wiki
23:22 sri nothing is better than bad information
23:23 Akron Would some things go into the Guids / Cookbook? For example the deployment recipes etc.?
23:23 sri nope
23:23 Akron Aha.
23:23 Akron Quite discouraging after writing one.
23:23 sri if you have an alternative please say so
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23:24 sri i've been begging people to clean up the wiki for months
23:24 Akron Can you make the Wiki be writable only to a couple of users?
23:25 leonidas How do I change the cookie_name from the default 'mojolicious' to something else? I'm in a mojolicious lite app accessing it like so $self->session
23:26 sri Akron: i don't think so, it's public or contributors only
23:26 sri or collaborators...
23:26 sri (those with commit bit)
23:28 Akron Ah, okay.
23:29 Akron Maybe I've got time tomorrow for the Wiki. I like the idea and some of the information is really useful.
23:30 sri that would be nice
23:30 Akron The graphic was done by Marcus, right?
23:30 sri yes, it's outdated though, so i removed it
23:31 Akron marcus: Can you update the module overview graphic for the Wiki?
23:32 Akron I think it would be nice to have an updated Wiki for 3.0.
23:33 Akron sri: Did you know Uberspace? There are quite good shared webhosters out there! ;)
23:33 sri nope
23:33 Akron Or at least one.
23:33 Akron Have to go now - bye!
23:34 leonidas Anybody?
23:46 jamadam joined #mojo
23:48 sri also sent something to the mailing list
23:51 leonidas can anybody here tell me how do I change the default name of the signed cookie from 'mojolicious' to something else?
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