Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2012-07-10

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All times shown according to UTC.

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05:41 amirite change management
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08:33 Ulti <@sri> Ulti: while you're at it, make a browser detection plugin  <--- will do ;P
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09:09 batman http://umumble.com/blogs/Programming/321/ :)
09:18 ZadYree Hey I'm having a problem with mojolicious: it is DoSable when trying to GET pages like /.foo
09:19 ZadYree is it a common case?
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09:57 Ulti batman I love Egyptian bracketing... how else are you meant to jump to the expression at the top of a block based on bracket matching?
09:58 Ulti p. sure anyone who doesn't do braces that way hasn't ever done any remote editing on the command line
09:59 amirite what's egyptian bracketing
09:59 Ulti the opening brace is on the same line as the if/while/for... expression
09:59 amirite why is it egyptian
10:00 amirite b/c walk like an egyptian ?
10:00 Ulti so   if ($thing) {\n}  rather than  if ($thing)\n{\n}
10:00 Ulti amirite: yeah
10:00 amirite you know what i hate more than vertical confusion? tightness
10:01 amirite if(foo){} is really ugly
10:01 Ulti I hate languages with begin / end style blocks for the same reason I hate opening brace on its own line
10:01 amirite if ( foo ) {\n } is pretty
10:02 Ulti not sure what perltidy defaults too..?
10:02 Ulti -o
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10:31 metys elo, can anyone tell me, what is the right way to allow access to controller from deeper layers of application? example: I have a MyApp::Plugin::Model, which loads and creates instances of MyApp::Model::... Model needs access to database, so I need to pass controller down... Model has method "form", which returns MyApp::Form::... It would be goot, to allow form to access database/transtale helpers... Currently I pass contoller down as constructor argument, but I
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11:36 * sri yawns
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11:46 sri oh, we are only one watcher behind ack on github now :)
11:47 Debolaz[Lo] metys: Scary program structure.
11:50 sri batman: lol!
11:51 sri i'm so gonna use the terms smug/drug/shrug report
12:04 batman Ulti: i also like egyptian bracketing.
12:05 batman sri: yeah, i want to create a contest @work to see who incorporates all the slang in the git log first :)
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12:06 batman metys: i think you need to restructure your code. i'm pretty sure it's backwards :(
12:19 batman hm.... i think i may have asked about this earlier, but...
12:19 batman warn $t->ua->get("http://$host:$port/")->res->body; # <-- this works with $hosta and $port from $t->ua->app_url->host / port
12:19 batman $t->ua->get("http://$host:$port/", sub { warn $_[1]->res->error; Mojo::IOLoop->stop; }); Mojo::IOLoop->start;
12:19 batman ^while that one does not work...
12:20 batman it says Premature connection close.
12:21 sri i think the port resets when it switches from blocking to non-blocking mode
12:21 sri since it switches ioloops
12:21 batman oh. *testing*
12:23 batman how can i find "the other" ioloop?
12:24 batman ah. i think i see it now *hacking*
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13:06 GitHub7 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/44ALIA
13:06 GitHub7 [mojo/master] better explanation for app_url behavior - Sebastian Riedel
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13:06 sri batman: it's a little complicated
13:06 sri ...like everything non-blocking
13:07 batman i just monkeypatched the code.
13:07 batman i have a rule when it comes to unittesting: there are no rules :/
13:08 sri we could theoretically reuse the port, but then there's another problem
13:08 sri we wouldn't know that we have to restart the server
13:08 batman when do you need to restart the server?
13:08 sri when switching protocols or blocking/non-blocking
13:09 batman but why do you need to switch server on block/non-blocking?
13:09 sri because it uses different event loops
13:09 sri Mojo::IOLoop->singleton vs $ua->ioloop
13:10 batman i think you have explained this to me earlier as well, but i don't get why it doesn't use the same ioloop :/
13:10 sri how would you emulate blocking with a singleton event loop you don't control?
13:11 batman that's the problem, i don't see how that is an issue.
13:11 batman i just wouldn't care if i control it or not
13:11 sri to emulate blocking we need to be able to call ioloop->start/stop from within Mojo::UserAgent
13:11 batman can't you use delay?
13:12 sri ok, i give up :)
13:12 sri there is no other way
13:12 batman ...i guess the answer is because you don't have control of the ioloop :/
13:13 batman but what is worse: having to ioloops or forcing people to care about the state of the global ioloop?
13:13 batman *two
13:13 sri you don't see the big picture i'm afraid
13:14 batman i think i would force the end user to care about it and then rewrite start() to use delay
13:14 batman i'm quite certain you are absolutely correct :)
13:14 sri there is no decision, it can only work the way we have it implemented
13:14 batman ...about me not seeing the big picture
13:14 batman ok :)
13:15 sri if you go one event loop only then you can only do non-blocking
13:15 batman yey! me like :)
13:15 batman would make the whole thing less complicated :)
13:15 sri i actually sometimes wish i went non-blocking only ;p
13:15 batman 4.0 ?
13:15 batman pllllleeeeeasse :)
13:15 sri we can't have oneliners then
13:16 sri you would *always* need callbacks for everything
13:16 sri (big picture)
13:16 batman i want to make that oneliner... *pondering*
13:16 batman <3 callbacks
13:17 sri perhaps you should try understanding how it works now before lobbying for huge changes ;p
13:18 batman i understand that doing it both ways gives me a major headache...
13:18 sri so would callback spaghetti
13:19 batman it's only spaghetti if you make it so
13:20 sri Test::Mojo and ojo for example couldn't exist
13:21 sri no chaining anymore, just callbacks
13:23 batman but all the tests could be run in parallel :)
13:24 sri WHAT COULD GO WRONG?!!!
13:24 batman absolutely nothing ;)
13:25 batman i see your point...
13:25 sri you would have to nest requests that involve sessions/cookies or anything stateful
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13:26 batman i think the existing Test::Mojo api could be used to hide the nesting
13:26 sri that said, we do need more people who actually understand the blocking/non-blocking hybrid system
13:27 batman so they wouldn't really do anything except setting up stuff which Mojo::IOLoop->start would run
13:28 batman i wonder if i can make time to actually do that...
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13:29 stephan48 sri: maybe the problem is that people just see a small part? maybe a sort of diagramm on how that all connects could be helpfull by someone who understands it?
13:29 batman i think someone already made that...
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13:52 sri stephan48: so far nobody even managed to find a simple explanation, i think a diagram is out of the question
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14:14 stephan48 sri: hehe when nobody found an explenation that would maybe explain why so many got problems with understandthing the concept
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15:01 amirite what's up with underscores in mojo routes
15:01 amirite i can't get actions with underscores to find
15:01 amirite nor does a CamelCase eval to camel_case
15:02 amirite which is foo
15:07 amirite DBI_TRACE is pretty junky
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15:18 amirite buf in Mojolicious::Controller line 162
15:18 amirite bug
15:18 amirite s/kissing/bite/
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16:35 alester sri: I didn't realize ack and mojo were in competition for watchers. :-)
16:36 alester I'm a lover, not a fighter.
16:38 alester Is anyone looking at adding Mechanize-like stuff in Mojo::Client?
16:38 sri alester: it's the only other perl module in the top5 so i keep an eye on it :D
16:39 sri the rest is rather underwhelming :S
16:40 sri i believe there was some mechanize binding, but it wasn't very good
16:41 alester Here at work, Pete was looking at using it instead of Mech but there's no ->click() and form submission and whatnot.
16:41 alester Part of me thinks it would be swell to have Mojo::Client leapfrog Mechanize.
16:41 alester But I haven't ever looked at it.
16:42 alester Just sat in Glenn's YAPC talk and thought "Ooooooh"
16:44 sri yea, we don't interpret content
16:44 alester But you do other awesome stuff with it.
16:45 sri judofyr also started a capybara port, wonder what happened to it
16:45 alester 'cause you can do CSS selectors and the like, right?
16:47 sri ye, i see Mojo::UserAgent more as a platform for mechanize/capybara
16:47 Debolaz[Lo] Meh, it's frustrating to have two user agent modules in my embedded app. :o
16:48 alester What's capybara?
16:48 sri https://github.com/jnicklas/capybara/
16:48 alester ah, a ruby thing
16:49 alester Debolaz[Lo]: What two modules are you using?
16:50 Debolaz[Lo] alester: Mojo::UserAgent in the web app, and Net::Async::HTTP in another app.
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16:51 GitHub33 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mHreKw
16:51 GitHub33 [mojo/master] fixed small bug in Mojo::UserAgent that prevented port reuse - Sebastian Riedel
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16:51 sri batman: actually managed to fix it :)
16:52 sri ->app_url should now always work
16:53 alester Debolaz[Lo]: So you're using two entirely different stacks to do your testing.
16:54 alester Is that causing any friction?
16:54 batman sri: i owe you a beer :)
16:54 batman or whatever you drink :P
16:55 Debolaz[Lo] alester: The main annoyance is the additional work of maintaining more modules than necessary. The fundamental problem is of course the different event loops used.
16:55 batman don't get it... why is delete $self->{server} moved from 170 to 176?
16:57 batman oh. reading the complete source now
16:58 alester Debolaz[Lo]: The app is Perl?  Mojo?
16:58 alester What about Capybara made you want to use it for testing?
16:58 Debolaz[Lo] alester: Yes.
17:00 sri batman: \o/
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17:00 GitHub80 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/F3-8gQ
17:00 GitHub80 [mojo/master] more app_url tests - Sebastian Riedel
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17:00 alester To want it enough to add another stack?
17:00 alester I'm just often bumping up against frustrations with Test::WWW::Mechanize
17:01 Debolaz[Lo] alester: A unification of all things event related on perl is my wet dream btw.
17:01 sri Debolaz[Lo]: we are working on that :D
17:02 sri we != mojo
17:02 Debolaz[Lo] sri: You have some obstacles to overcome there. Especially with our old friend the EV/AnyEvent author.
17:04 sri Debolaz[Lo]: working on exactly that
17:05 sri there will be an anyevent fork in the not so distant future
17:05 Debolaz[Lo] sri: Let me know when a hole shaped roughly like your head is beginning to form in the wall next to you.
17:05 alester ok, off to lunch I go, and then I fight with Solr delta imports.
17:05 Debolaz[Lo] Though I'd most certainly support a fork.
17:06 sri he pissed off every event loop author on cpan, and his own anyevent users... go figure what's happening now ;)
17:09 sri btw. windows users please test master, i'm not 100% sure port reuse works portably
17:13 sri with a bit of luck it will soon be very common to use all the different event loops in a single app and it will just work
17:18 sri hmm, better forget what everything i just said, not sure i'm supposed to talk about it yet :o
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17:24 sri tempire, marcus, crab: but it's an interesting question, where do we draw the line for Mojo::UserAgent? Stop at providing a parser, or interpret content as well and allow stuff like ->click() in the core framework?
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17:30 sri personally, i'm actually not to keen on going too high level, since the lack of javascript will prevent making things "just work"
17:30 sri *+o
17:33 sri on that layer there's just no way we could beat a real browser, headless webkit will always win
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17:58 marcus sri: maybe add webkit as an optional dependency and integrate? :)
18:07 sri marcus: maybe not :)
18:07 sri https://metacpan.org/module/​Glib::Object::Introspection # <- pretty interesting module
18:20 marcus sri: indeed.
18:21 marcus heh, makefile breaks without ExtUtils::PkgConfig
18:22 marcus and Glib...
18:26 marcus sri: you know this channel is publicly logged rite?
18:26 marcus re 'not supposed to talk about it ;-)
18:26 * marcus is drinking a lost dog
18:26 marcus one beer is enough when it's 11.5 %
18:26 sri marcus: OMIGAWD!
18:28 marcus wow, managed to install Glib-Object-Introspection
18:29 sri that gtk stuff looks a lot better than when i last looked at it 10 years ago
18:30 marcus strangely, the linux desktop still is shit tho
18:30 marcus hmm, mountain lion GM is out?
18:31 marcus fuck it, guess I'm upgrading
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19:32 sri fuck it, we'll do it live!
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19:36 niczero I need a job queue
19:36 niczero don't need distribution, nor langs other than perl, so gearman seems a poor fit
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19:37 niczero theschwartz looks right, but I hear it's stale
19:38 niczero mojo itself feels close to providing all the tools reqd
19:39 niczero Is there an alive successor to theschwartz?
19:39 niczero or a discussion of implementing the parts in Mojolicious?
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19:49 x4rlos Hi all, Can someone point me to some simple uses of templating with mojo? i can only really see single liners with text=>"blah" examples. Im looking to print out a few rows from tables in a database. :-)
19:51 daniel_ x4rlos: you've read http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/​Mojolicious/Guides/Rendering ?
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19:56 niczero ah, just googled #mojo and see that question comes up a lot  :o)
19:59 x4rlos i have, and am. but was trying to follow the mojo::lite example to try and follow it through to printing the output. I thought i could use the <% command %> directives for an array of prints. then i find myself asking if i need to add any additional modules or so. I'll keep reading :-)
19:59 x4rlos i only ever seemed to be able to print one line :-)
19:59 niczero x4rlos: are you using DBI + mysql?
20:00 x4rlos dbi + pg
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20:01 niczero so you have $dbh->fetchall_arrayref() or whatever it's called
20:02 niczero which returns ref to array of either arrayrefs or hahrefs (according t your prefs)
20:07 x4rlos yeah. i have just created a big string of the output, and it prints the text fine all together. Just trying to figure how to create the templates, and print on a per-entry basis. So for example to create a table-like output or such.
20:08 x4rlos i need to read up man, just being lazy. Thought someone may have had a great example of what i am trying to accomplish :-) i will read properly the docs :-)
20:11 bobkare x4rlos: take a look at mojoexample: https://github.com/tempire/MojoExample/blob/157​283b14ac2ecab64153dc120a56699c40583ec/mojolite
20:12 niczero x4rlos: you're only about 3 lines away from completion; it's all in that guide
20:12 bobkare x4rlos: there are some examples in there of looping over data and producing html
20:13 niczero and you don't need to use dbix::class
20:18 x4rlos thanks all, ill have a look!! much apprieciated!!
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20:22 diegok niczero: I'm using resque for job queue
20:23 diegok niczero: I'm not doing lot of advance on it, but it works for me :)
20:26 marcus diegok: you've implemented it for perl as well, haven't you?
20:27 batman any idea where i can find free web designs? i know of some pages, but i'm curious if there's anyone other i should check out
20:27 diegok marcus: yes :)
20:27 marcus batman: I heard geocities is the shit
20:28 batman marcus: from yahoo?
20:28 diegok batman: http://www.oswd.org/ ?
20:28 batman diegok: yeah, that's one of the sites i know about :)
20:29 diegok batman: this days I'm using bootstrap all around (when no designer is looking) :)
20:29 batman diegok: yup, was considering the same thing
20:30 diegok batman: and there is another framework kinda boostrap I can't remember the name...
20:30 batman skeleton sucks, if that's what you're thinking about :)
20:31 diegok yup, that one :)
20:31 diegok but I've never tried...
20:31 batman hehe
20:31 diegok http://bootswatch.com/
20:32 batman cool
20:35 diegok niczero: https://metacpan.org/module/Resque
20:36 niczero diegok: thanks
20:37 niczero right now I'm thinking Mojolicious + MySQL is going to do it for me
20:37 diegok niczero: sure, but redis is a much better option for concurrent workers ;)
20:38 niczero I can put a vip in front of mojo and run mysql multi-master
20:38 niczero diegok: i'll check that out tomorrow
20:39 marcus diegok: did you also see https://github.com/afair/resque-perl?
20:39 diegok niczero: sure, problem is you need to block to fetch jobs out of mysql
20:40 niczero running a select and decompressing the json will be orders of magnitude quicker than the actual work
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20:40 diegok marcus: yes!, I was trying to use that one... then tried to patch that one and then decided to port from ruby an send it to cpan
20:41 niczero diegok: how does redis avoid blocking?
20:41 diegok niczero: has inmemory atomic operations on arrays
20:42 diegok niczero: so, you pull a job and is yours and no one else ;)
20:42 niczero i see
20:42 marcus <3 redis
20:43 diegok redis is pure love :)
20:45 diegok niczero: one nice thing of using resque is you can use the ruby resque-web iface
20:45 diegok that's the main reason I've ported it.
20:46 niczero hm, if it's purty that might sway my colleagues
20:47 niczero but the more I think about it the more queue control logic comes to mind
20:49 diegok niczero: like what?
20:49 niczero like some jobs can't be started unless prerequisite jobs have completed successfully in a recent timeframe
20:50 niczero perhaps i can rethink it to avoid that complication
20:52 diegok niczero: I have some tasks that need others so I've created a role I use in my workers that support after_success and after_failure "hooks" and it push that jobs :)
20:53 diegok niczero: what I've never needed nor solved is multiple job dependency :-/
20:54 diegok but you can probably solve that using an external storage and some kind of task_group_id...
20:55 diegok (you can use the same redis server for that) :)
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20:59 niczero hm, that's interesting
21:01 niczero in my situation i think i can avoid the multi prob by chaining the job dependencies, so each job depends on at most one other
21:19 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/pull/351 # does anyone understand this pull request?
21:20 scottw I do :)
21:20 scottw (submitter)
21:20 sri :)
21:21 * sri doesn't understand the use case
21:21 sri why do you need the ca certificate on the server side?
21:22 scottw I think it's a chain certificate...
21:22 scottw does that help? I'm not an SSL expert by any means.
21:22 marcus yeah, chain certs probably needs that
21:23 sri marcus: got any links or can you explain?
21:23 scottw I add it in Apache with the SSLCertificateChainFile directive
21:23 scottw and it allows connecting clients to get the info they need to validate our cert
21:24 scottw and we don't necessarily care about validating client certs
21:24 marcus sri: http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infoce​nter/wmqv6/v6r0/index.jsp?topic=%2Fc​om.ibm.mq.csqzas.doc%2Fsy10600_.htm it's a chain of trust thing. cheap ssl certs use this.
21:24 lammel2 Not only cheap ones
21:24 scottw *inexpensive* :)
21:24 sri Oo
21:24 marcus sri: I had to set it up for nginx when I bought a cheap ssl cert anyways :)
21:25 lammel2 even verisign uznd thawte are using intermediates
21:25 lammel2 it's more or less a cert being used to actually sign a cert request
21:25 lammel2 and you can more easily get rid of that in case of fraud, then the actual root cert
21:26 sri i see
21:26 lammel2 we've seen some examples last year why that's a good idea ;-)
21:27 * sri gets it now
21:27 sri sounds like a sensible feature
21:28 sri pull request is missing documentation, but the test case is good, will apply
21:29 scottw I can add the documentation separately
21:29 scottw gimme 15m
21:30 sri don't worry, i can do it
21:30 scottw sure? I don't mind at all.
21:30 sri ok, then i'll wait
21:30 scottw :)
21:36 scottw ok, the documentation has been updated also and committed
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21:47 sri scottw++
21:48 scottw back 'atcha
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21:48 GitHub192 [mojo] kraih pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/zV1w_Q
21:48 GitHub192 [mojo/master] - allow finer control over SSL_verify_mode flags - Scott Wiersdorf
21:48 GitHub192 [mojo/master] - document SSL verify mode flag parameter - Scott Wiersdorf
21:48 GitHub192 [mojo/master] Merge pull request #351 from scottw/master - Sebastian Riedel
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22:22 GitHub119 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/_uBEJg
22:22 GitHub119 [mojo/master] updated Changes file - Sebastian Riedel
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22:23 sri scottw: i'm a little unhappy that there's no Mojo::Server::Daemon test
22:24 scottw I can work on that.
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22:25 scottw gimme a bit so I can see how the daemon tests work generally
22:26 sri they are mostly scattered
22:27 scottw any recommendations where to put those?
22:27 sri looking
22:27 sri user_agent_tls.t is the closest i guess
22:28 scottw ok
22:28 scottw I'll give it a look
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22:28 sri scottw++
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22:29 Dani any news abaout the mojolicious?s book?
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22:38 scottw pull request sent
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22:39 GitHub121 [mojo] kraih pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/CcJQHQ
22:39 GitHub121 [mojo/master] - test ssl verification mode - Scott Wiersdorf
22:39 GitHub121 [mojo/master] Merge pull request #352 from scottw/master - Sebastian Riedel
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22:40 sri excellent
22:50 marty best irc client for mac
22:50 marty ?
22:51 lammel2 joined #mojo
22:51 * sri likes limechat
22:51 sri but i use a custom theme
22:51 marty Thank you, sir.
22:51 marty I'll go grab it.
22:51 sri http://twitpic.com/8m88nv
22:52 marty oooo that's shinny
22:53 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/pull/353 # hmm... i like nothing about this pull request :S
22:54 sri "enable_bundled" is clunky and disabling all bundled files makes all built in templates fail
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22:57 sri https://gist.github.com/1867328 # i believe that's the theme
22:58 * marty is on limechat!
22:58 sri \o/
22:58 marty \o/
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23:11 GitHub11 [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ZC9WVQ
23:11 GitHub11 [mojo/master] small test tweaks - Sebastian Riedel
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