Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2012-09-07

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:22 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ovA0kw
00:22 good_news_everyone [mojo/master] better descriptions for some Mojo::ByteStream methods - Sebastian Riedel
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01:14 tempire I'm unhappy that a Plugin requires a reference as a parameter.
01:14 * tempire grumps
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01:53 sri tempire: actually, that's not correct
01:54 sri plugin 'foo', bar => 'baz'; is fine too
01:55 tempire you're right.
01:55 tempire I meant plugin foo => 'bar';
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01:58 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/eQOn0g
01:58 good_news_everyone [mojo/master] better plugin argument tests - Sebastian Riedel
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01:58 sri tempire: use case?
01:58 tempire I have no real argument.
01:59 tempire Just the aesthetics of the plugin I just made.
01:59 sri it would make future extensions pretty hard
01:59 tempire specifying the parameter to look for a jsonp callback
01:59 tempire plugin JSONP => callback => 'callback';
01:59 tempire it's fine
02:00 sri until you want to extend it
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02:39 crab aesthe-ticks
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02:53 ask Has anyone made a Blosxom type tool with Mojolicious?  (Or other weblog-like things for that matter).
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04:53 crab ask: i wrote a blosxom-derived program named loathsxome.
04:54 crab ask: (which i'm converting to mojolicious now)
04:55 ask crab: cool. If you think of it then let me know when it's done-ish. I want to convert my weblog to something based on static files.
04:55 ask Though I want to be able to have one gigantic file with all the old crap (and one file per month or whatever of little entries).  Octopress/Jekyll doesn't support that and I'd rather build it in Perl or Javascript
04:56 ask ... but building all the infrastructure from scratch I don't know when I'll find time for. :-)
04:56 ask crab: see also http://joehewitt.com/2011/10/0​3/dropbox-is-my-publish-button
04:58 crab ask: i'll definitely let you know. in fact that's a bit of extra motivation to finish my code.
04:58 crab i've never considered putting multiple posts into one file, though.
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05:02 ask crab: for "link-blog" type things it'd be very convenient, and also for importing an archive of old stuff.
05:03 ask or just once in a while stuff all the old things together in fewer files to have less file system cruft.
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05:31 crab got any ideas about how individual posts would be addressed inside the "archive"?
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05:53 crab mojo cpanify is great.
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07:32 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/9gtd1g
07:32 good_news_everyone [mojo/master] better renderer and condition examples - Sebastian Riedel
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07:44 * sri yawns
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08:34 sri http://rubydramas.com # hahahaha
08:37 davido "Powered by PHP"
08:41 Netfeed haha
09:02 ZadYree :'D
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09:07 davido Would my $id = Mojo::IOLoop->at( '23:00 UTF-7' => sub{ ... } ); be useful to anyone else? :)
09:34 sri davido: what would be the gain of having that in core?
09:35 davido To me it would allow some app bookkeeping to be done at a set time.  But I could implement it as a plugin.
09:37 sri ok, that's a good reason against it :)
09:37 davido Is it? :)
09:37 davido Oh, you mean the fact that it could be a plugin is a good reason against it.
09:38 sri yea
09:38 davido I've just been trying to figure out the best way to implement it as eco-friendly as possible.
09:39 sri i prefer relative timers, since they make working with monotonic clocks easier
09:39 sri monotonic clock support in Mojo::Reactor::Poll is something i'm more interested in
09:40 sri once the os x patch has been applied to Time::HiRes i think we'll add it
09:41 davido What is a monotonic clock?
09:41 davido This definition doesn't help me much: http://www.rtsj.org/specjavado​c/timers_overview-summary.html
09:41 sri a clock that can only jump forward, but never backwards
09:42 davido Oh, ok.  That's a lot clearer.
09:43 sri currently it only works on linux with Perl
09:46 davido My use case would be to shut down routes after a given hour on an inward facing app, and resume later on.  During the dark time, also set a new app secret.  As I'm not seeing anyone else asking about it, I should probably assume that I'm on the wrong track. ;)
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09:53 Netfeed couldn't you solve that with a callback?
09:54 davido You mean in a bridge?
09:54 sri that exact example is in the docs...
09:54 Netfeed or a bridge :)
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09:55 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolici​ous/Guides/Routing#Condition_plugins
09:55 sri just with moon phases
09:55 davido I must have looked at that ten times and not seen it. :)
09:55 davido Thanks.
09:56 davido ->over can chain, right?
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09:58 davido Anyway, thanks. :)
10:24 crab heh, "during the dark time"
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11:52 marcus DOOOOOM!
11:58 Kwa Guy at work just rang Apple to see if they'd look at his PowerBook G4. Said they won't look at it because it's over 5 years old and classed as 'vintage'.
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12:17 crab that sucks
12:17 purl The rock is now off.
12:24 Kwa For him, yeah. I think it's funny how Apple don't support anything over 5 years old. I shouldn't really be surpised though.
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16:00 Ultali if I have a template with the line: %=  $self->render(partial => 1, template => 'table', data => [["Name",1,2]], header => ["Predictor","Start","End"]);
16:00 Ultali is there an obvious reason why I'm just getting back an array?
16:01 Ultali ahhh its a Mojo::ByteStream
16:01 Ultali I was expecting to just have the rendered content from the sub-template
16:03 Ultali http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious/Gu​ides/Rendering#Including_partial_templates   I can't see what I'm doing that differently from the docs...
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16:06 inokenty Ulti: 'data' is a reserved word
16:06 inokenty http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolici​ous/Guides/Rendering#Rendering_data
16:07 Ulti erk!!!
16:07 Ulti thanks I knew it was going to be something dumb I've done
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17:57 williamt Where can I find docs on myapp.conf ?
17:58 Netfeed http://mojolicio.us/perldoc​/Mojolicious/Plugin/Config
17:58 Netfeed maybe
18:00 williamt I'm looking for how myapp.conf is supposed to be formated and what options I can put in there
18:01 Netfeed it can be whatever you want, if you use the one i linked, it's just perl
18:02 Netfeed i think at least, there's also plugins for json and yaml and then you'll just get a normal hash structure with whatever you put there
18:02 williamt i see.
18:02 williamt Can you specify for instance a different directory for templates in the config ?
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18:13 williamt nevermind I found it i think. Looks like you just set app->renderer->paths with the path you want
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21:55 tempire I think we need to target mojolicious marketing toward each country.
21:56 tempire I found our new theme for the korean market: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp​7q19f0&feature=player_embedded#!
22:12 vervain Heh... the other day I ranked less over sass due to bootstrap: http://bit.ly/q4Ms8d
22:13 sri tempire: NO AVAILABLE IN YOUR COUNTRY! :(
22:14 tempire why does germany hate music?
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22:24 xaka sri: just interesting, why do you wrap timer/recurring/emit into eval { ... }? do you think it's good idea to keep running the application that has unhandled exceptions? what if those exceptions are critical?
22:25 sri why is it a good idea to let a failing timer take down the whole server?
22:27 xaka 1. to pay developer's attention that something is wrong (when you have huge logs, you can easly miss rare (and imporant) error messages) 2. to force develop handle exceptions and do something rather than nothing
22:30 sri shit happens in production, you're delusional if you think servers wouldn't randomly fail in production, and you would be left with no information whatsoever because the exception was not catched properly
22:31 sri mojolicious is defensive by design
22:33 davido You could probably subscribe to the event error and throw from the cb if you want.  Might get tired of that happening.  Perhaps subscribe to error, and then log to a second, more critical log.
22:34 sri you're supposed to handle exceptions yourself, the built in fallbacks are just that, fallbacks preventing your production servers from going down randomly
22:35 sri subscribing to events is a measure of last resort for when you failed miserably :)
22:35 sri (error events that is)
22:36 davido It sounds like that's what he's describing: A miserable failure. :)
22:36 xaka defensive design sounds good, probably worth to be mentioned on home page
22:37 davido Couldn't the error event be used as a hook to log to a logfile of more elevated interest?
22:40 xaka davido: you can subscribe to logger events and duplicate errors to any place, but right now there is no "exception" type of log message to tell them from other errors
22:41 davido But if you arrive at 'error' you know something didn't get handled.
22:50 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Moj​olicious/Guides/Cookbook#Timers # the timer recipe also mentions the subject
22:52 sri if you really really want timers to make the server go down you can just use AnyEvent timers or write your own unsafe reactor
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