Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2012-09-11

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 crab i guess so.
00:04 vervain For a restful API I really want to make it clear that it's the method that is wrong.
00:06 crab if it were a proper rest client, it wouldn't need it :-)
00:07 vervain Not sure I follow
00:13 vervain I'm thinking more for the developer who is an api consumer... the 405 is going to be a big hint without much fluff.
00:14 vervain To me 404 if misleading... but I'll try and dig through IRC/mailing list logs to see if some enlightenment can be found. :-)
00:22 crab if it were a proper rest api, then there would be no opportunity to use an incorrect method, because whatever it is that links you to a given url would also include the correct method to use
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00:31 vervain *nod* - But like I say... developers <- Idiots like me ;-)
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00:35 buu crab: I've heard that assumption before and I've never quite wrapped my brain around how that would actually work in practice
00:36 buu How do you encode enough understanding into the program to parse the results of the initial call and get to the right service?
00:37 vervain My quandary is that 'proper' implementation would probably make the / handler for the API very large indeed... but maybe that's ok.
00:44 buu Yeah... and require much introspection?
00:44 vervain I think that introspection is kinda the point with proper 'REST'
00:45 vervain An other thing that I've riddled but not settled on is rather or not relations can be used in 'both' directions... e.g. /user/1/realm/2 _and_ /realm/2/user/1
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00:49 vervain s/can/can\/should/
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04:54 crab vervain: i'd recommend against it. one endpoint and one representation for one object, unless there's some very good reason to do it otherwise.
04:58 crab a very compelling reason. otherwise just have links.
04:59 crab /user/1 returns something that contains <link rel=realm href=//blah/realm/2> or so.
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06:50 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/arXTSQ
06:50 good_news_everyone [mojo/master] fixed Perl 5.10.1 compatibility (closes #381) - Sebastian Riedel
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08:23 nour why this line? -e catdir(@base, 't') ? unshift(@INC, $lib) : push(@INC, $lib);
08:23 nour -e catdir(@base, 't') ? unshift(@INC, $lib) : push(@INC, $lib);
08:23 nic What's the question?
08:23 purl the question is still how I'd parse that
08:23 nic you mean to understand it?
08:24 crab nour: it's something to do with hypnotoad and morbo tests
08:24 crab or at least, it has something to do with tests :-)
08:25 nic :)
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09:15 sri isn't it obvious?
09:16 sri the source directory gets precedence to installed versions of your app when testing
09:17 sri you want ./script/myapp get / to use the version from the lib directory and myapp get / to use the installed one
09:18 sri remember... FindBin does not work for mojolicious apps
09:19 * sri pokes crab
09:19 sri i hope you get it now?
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09:35 * sri wonders if we could actually make FindBin work now that it has been fixed in Plack
09:36 memowe sri: +1
09:36 purl 1
09:36 memowe :D
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09:38 crab sri: yes, now i get it, thanks
09:48 sri oh
09:49 sri FindBin can only be initialized once
09:51 * crab reads FindBin manpage, and remember NI-S
09:52 sri we basically would have to FindBin->init again :S
09:53 sri or FindBin::again();
09:55 sri ok, that breaks more :)
09:55 sri i'm not touching that code again
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10:22 sri http://pastie.org/pastes/4700774/text # this patch appears to work, but the FindBin reset problem is annoying
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10:27 marcus W00P W00P
10:29 crab hi marcus alarm.
10:29 marcus (It's the sound of da police)
10:33 nic nour: cpanm -l /tmp/testmymojo Mojolicious Mojolicious::Plugin::Authentication ...
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10:39 basic6 How do I send HTTP 401 in the startup function of a Mojolicious app, if authentication fails? I did found a couple of examples, but unfortunately those are all for Mojo Lite...
10:41 memowe You want to send a 401 on startup?
10:42 basic6 Yes, if the user is not authenticated
10:44 memowe Which user?
10:44 purl Which user is running the init script?
10:44 Kwa unless ($self->is_user_authenticated) { $self->res->code(401); ... } ?
10:44 memowe basic6: on startup, there's no user.
10:45 Kwa Yeah. If you return unauthenticed in startup, how can someone authenticate?
10:46 basic6 Kwa: HTTP Auth is done by the web server, I just read $ENV{REMOTE_USER} and check it with the database
10:47 memowe When?
10:47 basic6 $self->res->code(401); sounds just like what I'm looking for, I'll give it a shot
10:47 crab are you using mojo with cgi or something?
10:47 Kwa basic6: If the web server is authenticating, do you need to check then?
10:49 crab whatever you're doing, it shouldn't be in startup. startup isn't meant to be executed per-request.
10:50 basic6 "Can't locate object method res via package "MyApplication"..." am I somehow using the wrong variable (sorry for asking, I'm new to Mojo)
10:50 crab ->res is a controller method, and startup is an application method. what you are doing is fundamentally broken.
10:50 basic6 btw I'm using my $r = $self->routes and $r->route()..... successfully in the same startup function
10:50 crab routes and route are application methods. they are MEANT to be used in startup.
10:51 crab but ->res and stuff are available only in actions that your routes dispatch to
10:51 vervain basic6: You want to set your response codes in the controller functions called by routes.
10:52 vervain If you want a 'global' controller that checks authentication then you should look at a bridge... or at a push maybe a hook.
10:53 basic6 Wouldn't that be duplicate code to have this check in every controller? It's just one startup function and no route should work if the user isn't authenticated
10:53 vervain It won't be duplicate code if you use a bridge or a hook.
10:53 crab you should use a bridge. check out Mojolicious::Plugin::Authentication or so.
10:53 crab but it is NOT a startup function.
10:54 crab startup is conceptually separate from request handling. if you're using cgi, it may be possible to confuse the two because startup is forced to run on every request, but you should not think of it that way.
10:55 Netfeed not really understood yet when a bridge should be used or not. my guess would be for example for a /admin path, but i can't really see the point of it on regular pages where it doesn't matter if the user is logged in or not
10:55 crab Netfeed: if/where it doesn't matter if the user is logged in or not, then there's no need to do anything
10:56 basic6 Are you saying I shouldn't even have all the routes ($r->route("/page")->to("PageController#page") in the startup function?
10:56 crab basic6: <crab> routes and route are application methods. they are MEANT to be used in startup.
10:56 crab basic6: <crab> but ->res and stuff are available only in actions that your routes dispatch to
10:56 basic6 And as for the authentication - what about the start script application.pl
10:57 crab i do not understand what you mean.
10:57 memowe d'oh
10:57 basic6 (which ends with Mojolicious::Commands->start('MyApplication');)
10:57 crab what about it?
10:57 Netfeed crab: well, they could be logged in and there's a, more likely, chance that they aint. in that case there's no real point of having a bridge, correct?
10:58 crab Netfeed: if you need to control access, then you need a bridge. if you don't, then you don't. i'm not sure what else to say. you're right, but i don't see how else it could be.
11:00 Netfeed i just wanted someone else to agree with me, i'm not really 'there' yet when comes to the finer parts of bridges
11:01 basic6 Do you have some good documentation link (that says a little bit more than "bridge() creates a bridge")?
11:01 crab Netfeed: i think you have beginnings of the right idea. have you looked at the examples in the routing guide?
11:01 sri basic6: have you worked your way through the tutorial and guides yet?
11:01 crab basic6: look at the routing guide (but look at Mojolicious::Plugin::Authentication, like i said before)
11:02 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc # READ ALL THE THINGS!
11:02 crab the routing guide is Mojolicious::Guides::Routing (and ::Rendering is useful too)
11:02 crab help! ALL THE THINGS are reading ME!
11:03 Kwa Netfeed: I use a bridge when I want to prevent duplicate code. Not sure if it's the right method as I'm still learning myself, but I have paths like /memberid/edit_this /memberid/edit_that, so I use the bridge to make sure the memberid exists, and then populate the stash with the member's result row.
11:03 Netfeed crab: yeah, but i've always thought that the bridge part is a bit unclear
11:03 basic6 Not entirely but pretty much everytime I need something mojoluci.us is one of the first places i look. however, in some cases, it just doesn't answer my questions (like i said, if a function "route" is described with "creates a route" it doesn't tell me how a route works)
11:04 Netfeed Kwa: that's a thought
11:05 basic6 http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Moj​olicious/Guides/Routing#Bridges is more than one sentence though, I'll see how far I can get with that.
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11:17 crab basic6: look at Mojolicious::Plugin::Authentication
11:17 crab Kwa: yes, that's a good use of bridges.
11:18 Kwa Sweet.
11:18 marcus crab: IN SOVIET RUSSIA
11:18 purl JOKE GETS TIRED OF YOU.
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11:18 sri botsnack!
11:18 purl thanks sri :)
11:19 * marcus smacks purl
11:19 purl hehe! that tickles!
11:22 marcus YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A BOT. A VERY SNARKY BOT.
11:24 memowe ROFL HE SIAD BOT
11:33 basic6 Ok I don't have this authentication plugin installed. Now please don't say "so just install it", (I want to avoid installing additional plugins/modules), this has to work without a plugin...
11:34 basic6 Someone said hooks and it seems easy but I don't see how to send a http code from within the hook
11:34 basic6 So I'm taking another look at bridges
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12:25 nic basic6: I don't understand why you're avoiding plugins, but M:P:Auth is v short, so you have the option of copy & paste straight into your app
12:25 nic (but, just to be clear, I think that's bonkers)
12:27 basic6 No I wouldn't really copy the plugin code into my application.
12:28 basic6 I'm still trying to get a bridge to work.
12:30 nic If you'd used M:P:Auth you wouldn't be "still trying" :)
12:31 basic6 Like I said, I want to avoid plugins. I mean (although I'm new to Mojolicious), it seems to be such a powerful framework and all those methods sound so promising, I just have to find out how to use them right.
12:32 basic6 And the authentication I'm trying to accomplish is really easy too, it's either an error message or all the routes without error message
12:34 Kwa basic6: You should maybe do a bit more reading so you understand what's going on, rather than just trying to hack it to do what you think it should do. Might help you in the long run.
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12:38 Kwa basic6: The example for bridges in the routing guide seems to be what you want, however: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Moj​olicious/Guides/Routing#Bridges
12:40 sri crab, tempire, marcus: this patch appears to make FindBin work, should it be applied? http://hastebin.com/raw/ciwidebiwe
12:50 basic6 Kwa: I've read through it, after all it's not that much text really. The reason why I couldn't get it working before is that I overlooked the "/foo" in the example code, so all my tests (not under /foo/...) didn't go through the bridge
12:51 basic6 So "/foo" -> "/" and it seems to work.
12:52 Kwa Right, yeah. I think you can even do it like $r->bridge->to if you want to run the bridge on the root path.
12:52 sri yes, you can
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13:10 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/c0ZbjA
13:10 good_news_everyone [mojo/master] fixed FindBin support in Mojolicious applications - Sebastian Riedel
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13:11 memowe good news! \o/
13:11 memowe sri++
13:11 sri FindBin reset is still a bit awkward, but it makes the examples more pretty and is consistent with Plack behavior
13:12 memowe Finally. :)
13:12 sri oh, i comepletely missed that you wanted it :)
13:13 sri tempire, crab, marcus: if you don't answer i assume you said yay and will later share the blame with you ;p
13:14 memowe sri: wasn't that important. __FILE__ worked fine.
13:14 memowe But FindBin is maybe more sexy.
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13:14 * sri shakes fist at FindBin
13:16 memowe shaky-shaky-shaky! o//
13:17 sri hmmm
13:17 sri again() is not used much http://grep.cpan.me/?q=FindBin​%28%3A%3A%7C%5C-%5C%3E%29again
13:17 sri mostly just Module::Install
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13:22 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5HcIPA
13:22 good_news_everyone [mojo/master] use FindBin->again instead of FindBin::again() - Sebastian Riedel
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13:23 sri btw. the 5.10.1 fix means we should release soonish, or there will be more complaints
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14:07 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/bTPYuA
14:07 good_news_everyone [mojo/master] tweaked growing guide - Sebastian Riedel
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14:31 nour i want to access controller B from controller A -- how to ?
14:33 Kwa That might be considered bad form, but controllers are just normal packages.
14:34 nour so i have to instantiate it
14:36 Kwa Your controller inherits from Mojolicious::Controller which inherits from Mojo::Base.
14:36 Kwa What is it you're doing?
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14:38 nour i've got a pseudo-private method called _update_or_create which does some fancy dbi/x crapola in a controller
14:38 nour and i want to call it from a different controller
14:38 nour i could put it in App::Schema::ResultSet::Foo but thats work
14:38 nour oh well
14:39 Kwa Yeah, I'd do that if I were you.  You'll thank yourself in the future. :)
14:42 DaniBunny nour: i usually keep all dbi sutff in model moose classes. Controllers just call those guys
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14:59 marcus no!!!!
14:59 marcus what am I voting about?
15:00 sri marcus: you already voted yay :)
15:00 sri marcus: but it was this patch https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/b9​a80d875175cd295e50ab0148b5d5da17b33589
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15:03 sri oh look marty is back
15:04 * marty waves
15:04 sri o/
15:04 marty Hello fellow Mojo Homo Sapiens
15:04 sri Mojo Sapiens
15:05 marty I made some progress on our A-frame Cabin.  http://www.flickr.com/photos/870​96950@N04/sets/72157631511738720
15:05 marty what did I miss while I was gone?   :)   Is the world still turning?
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15:08 marcus sri: ok, I can live with that.
15:08 * marty waves to marcus
15:09 augensalat Just filed a new bug report (#382).
15:09 * marcus waves back
15:10 sri augensalat: and i closed it
15:10 marcus marty: you're crafty.
15:11 * marty likes hammers and screwdrivers
15:11 sri augensalat: nobody here can read minds (i hope!), you have to actually say what's wrong
15:11 augensalat sri: please think again.
15:12 sri augensalat: what is that supposed to mean?
15:12 marcus augensalat: that's not a bug report.
15:13 augensalat I have a file called "lall%20lall.txt", and when I upload it I get a file called "lall lall.txt".
15:13 marcus that's a description of the current (and desired) behavior
15:13 augensalat that's certainly not desiredQ
15:14 marcus url encode it then, if you want the url encoded version.
15:15 augensalat marcus: look at the code and tell me where to do the url-encoding
15:15 augensalat please
15:16 augensalat https://gist.github.com/3699443
15:19 * marty is reading the changelog.  wow, you guys have been busy!
15:21 marcus augensalat: on line 15.
15:22 marcus (sorry, busy with dinner here).
15:22 DaniBunny it's lunch time here in Brazil
15:23 augensalat OK. After that change, what happens, if I upload a file called "lall lall.txt"?
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15:27 marty github is down.
15:31 daxim https://status.github.com/
15:38 sri wow, browsers are stupid
15:39 sri http://hastebin.com/vederiqoqe.avrasm # let me present you what webkit browsers actually send for from uploads
15:40 sri s/from/form/
15:41 sri augensalat: so, if you want to report a bug, you absolutely need to mention what's wrong, and back it up with a few simple facts, like real world browser examples or links to spec sections
15:45 sri http://hastebin.com/riketuveba.avrasm # firefox does the exact same thing
15:46 sri snowmans... in header values!
15:46 sri i would love to see the spec that explains that :)
15:47 marty snowmans are cute and should never be censored or converted
15:49 sri glorious, it uses the current page charset to encode the header values
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15:53 augensalat sri: I'm a little stumped. When the filename changes by uploading through a Mojolicious app, isn't that fact enough to be counted as a bug?
15:53 augensalat x%20y -> x y
15:53 augensalat x y -> x y
15:53 augensalat x%41y -> xAy
15:53 augensalat x%aby ->x%aby
15:54 augensalat /unsay last
15:54 augensalat x%xyy -> x%xyy
15:54 sri augensalat: not at all
15:54 sri you did not explain anything
15:55 augensalat what's missing?
15:55 sri "like real world browser examples or links to spec sections"
15:55 sri i want facts facts facts! :)
15:56 daxim sri, http://greenbytes.de/tech/tc2231/
15:57 augensalat A spec, that says "do not change the filename in HTTP fileuploads if the filename contains something that looks like a URL encoding"?
15:59 sri augensalat: a spec that says what to expect from browsers!
16:00 sri which browser has which rfc implemented?
16:01 sri daxim: which is the relevant part?
16:02 daxim you were talking about Content-Disposition: form-data; name="foo"; filename="foo bär ☃.txt", so all of it
16:02 sri i don't see anything relevant to raw UTF-8 in header values
16:04 daxim that's clearly illegal
16:04 daxim test case attwithutf8fnplain is closest
16:04 sri all tested browsers do it though
16:05 sri safari, chrome, firefox
16:05 daxim yes, bugs have been filed, you only have to wait until 2018 until you can start working
16:16 sri augensalat: basically, had you shown me the raw HTTP message it would have been clear from the start what went wrong
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16:16 augensalat the three browsers I can test (Cr 22, FF15 and Opera12, all Linux) all seem to build a correct header (according to the doc daxim posted):
16:16 augensalat Content-Disposition: form-data; name="example"; filename="lall%20lall.txt"
16:18 augensalat say $upload->filename => "lall lall.txt"
16:18 sri if you really understand the docs daxim posted you are a lot smarter than me :)
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16:25 augensalat Basically they say, that URL-decoding the filename in a Content-Disposition header is a bug. I tried to find proofs in rfc 1867 w/o success, I suppose it is in another RFC describing HTTP in general.
16:27 augensalat Since all major browsers obviously do not URL-encode the filename in a content-disposition header, decoding it on the other end is probably wrong.
16:29 xaka sri: what about getting rid of "fileno" calls from reactor? ;) that would make my dbus adapter easier
16:29 sri xaka: i have no opinion about that
16:33 xaka did you see my message yesterday? i explained why it's "good idea"
16:34 sri xaka: yes, i still have no opinion about it
16:37 xaka my point is that io::select, io::poll, ev, anyevent, ... - they work with io::handle and an integer so i don't need to wrap anything. dbus gives me an integer from XS level so i have quite dirty code to make compatible with mojo's reactor
16:39 sri xaka: i've just checked, such a change would get in the way of us adopting PTokamak, so it's out of the question for now
16:40 xaka what is PTokamak? google knows nothing about it
16:41 sri a soon to be released PSGI for perl event loops, designed by the authors of all major perl even loops (except for mlehmann of course)
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16:42 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/JXy9DA
16:42 good_news_everyone [mojo/master] fixed a few multipart bugs - Sebastian Riedel
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16:43 sri augensalat: that should do the trick
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16:48 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/eeed95​f003c486cc3c12c1366b45d55de2dfda2a#L2R1855
16:48 sri that's the kind of test case i was hoping for
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17:05 nour what is psgi?
17:05 purl i heard psgi was the 'once we are in perl' specification... the mod_perl or fastcgi is what gets the data into perl in the first place
17:05 augensalat sri: thank you, very much appreciated. Btw: (my) FF uploads a file named "läll.txt" (utf-8) w/o problem, but refuses to send a request, when I try uploading "läll läll.txt".
17:06 sri i'm sure we will have *a lot* more fun with content disposition headers in the future ;)
17:06 sri they are just so wonderfully broken
17:08 daxim nour, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/catal​yst/users/28435?do=post_view_threaded#28435
17:24 crab sri: do all these nodejs and other things implement watch-and-live-reload in a browser through websockets?
17:24 crab or is there some simple way to spawn a browser and then remote-control its refresh button?
17:24 sri i think most still use socket.io
17:25 sri but yea, frameworks like meteor push updates from the server to the client side
17:26 sri they kinda sync their js code
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17:57 sri someone upload a quick bugfix release!
17:57 * sri cracks the whip
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17:57 tempire so the author of libev is difficult to work with
17:58 tempire a trait for all event loop authors?
17:58 tempire or just germans
17:58 sri it's mlehmann
17:58 tempire oh, anyevent & libev is same author
17:59 * tempire uploads release
17:59 * sri wishes UV was on cpan yet
18:00 tempire s/yet/already/
18:00 tempire or
18:01 tempire s/yes/damnit/
18:02 sri https://github.com/typester/p5-UV
18:02 sri so many features!
18:02 tempire *uploaded
18:04 batman sri: that would be tooooo awesome if mojo was based on libuv
18:04 batman then i will drink champagne!
18:04 sri we will have a PTokamak backend, which has a libuv backend already ;)
18:04 * batman checks out PTokamak
18:04 sri not public yet i'm afraid
18:05 batman ok
18:05 sri (don't ask me why)
18:05 batman PTokamak <-- have no idea how to pronounce or read that :P
18:05 sri that's intentional! ;p
18:05 batman :)
18:05 sri end users are not supposed to use it, so a weird name is a feature :D
18:06 batman that's just crazy talk, hehe
18:06 sri tempire++
18:06 batman people will (probably) use it anyway and figure out a way to pronounce it :)
18:07 sri don't forget to tag!
18:07 batman today i did something i'm not proud of: i used Mojo::Util to "port" signed_cookie() to a CGI.pm based application
18:08 sri :(
18:08 batman it was awful.
18:09 * tempire already refers to it as tomalak in his head http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2​0110623002502/memoryalpha/en/images/thu​mb/c/c0/Tomalak.jpg/292px-Tomalak.jpg
18:09 batman haha
18:10 batman i want longer days. where can i get that?
18:11 sri tempire: you didn't push your tag
18:12 tempire I did!
18:12 sri \o/
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19:33 rhaen hep
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19:39 dross lo'
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20:45 rhaen looked into mojo - haven't been there since ages.
20:46 rhaen Guess what - it still feels like home.
20:48 rhaen best thing Mojo::IOLoop...
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21:02 * dross sighs
21:02 dross I hate having to redo my eclipse environment
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