Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2012-11-08

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03:12 sri janus: what overhead?
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04:37 crab "if you're one of the many people for whom RHEL is the only commercially-supported platform for your software and/or
04:37 crab +hardware, we hope you don't take an interest in Mojo, and recommend that you consider killing yourself"
04:38 sri that escalated quickly
04:41 crab well, to be fair, there was a smiley afterwards.
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04:45 sri crab: what d you think about the reference to perlbrew?
04:46 sri (it's live atm on http://mojolicio.us)
04:49 tempire I'm about to close the thread.
04:50 tempire does anyone else think the deps should be listed in makefile, or should it stay as it is?
04:50 tempire I think it's a rhel problem, and there's a perfectly acceptable solution to it already.
04:50 * sri agrees
04:50 tempire if the rhel users were screwed otherwise, maybe it would warrant the change.
04:50 tempire but they're not.
04:51 sri redhat even removes pragmas like parent... listing absolutely everything is silly
04:52 sri i can see automatic installations of dual life modules from cpan going totally wrong, depending on brokenness of the vendor perl
04:53 tempire indeedums.
04:55 * sri just wants people to use perlbrew
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05:00 tempire There should be an srpm that downloads the latest perlbrew, compiles, and installs it as an rpm
05:06 tempire go
05:07 sri grrrrr... apple is preparing my macbook for delivery for over a day now :o
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07:29 chesti hi
07:29 chesti http://blogs.perl.org/users/joel_berger/20​12/10/a-simple-mojoliciousdbi-example.html
07:29 chesti there is a nic DB connection example
07:30 chesti but i`m wongering where in this code should be dbh disconnect
07:31 chesti any hint?
07:34 chesti i see that i get here before anyone grab first coffe
07:35 chesti ;)
07:35 Adurah I connect/disconnect from mysql per-request, or... at least try to, hah But, constant connections are viable too.
07:38 chesti ok i`m just learning and i try to understand this code
07:38 chesti and i`m wondering what place is good to place disconnect
07:39 chesti cause i see that author missed it
07:39 chesti he create helper for db connection and then use it
07:39 Adurah Likely automatically handled by DBI when Mojol is asked to die gracefully?
07:40 chesti hmmm but when i start web server connection will last until expire or web server will be closed
07:41 chesti and they will be opened for each request
07:41 chesti so if i start server and reload page 50 times i get 50 opened db connections... am i right?
07:41 Adurah There's only one connection.
07:42 chesti hmmm if you say so,,,
07:42 chesti i`ll check this using netstat on db server
07:43 Adurah If you're using a DB via TCP/Socket, sure.
07:45 chesti via tcp
07:45 chesti it`s on separate box
07:55 buu chesti: That example will create a single db connection per instance of the server.
07:55 buu If you are somehow running something that creates multiple instances each one will have its own connection.
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07:58 chesti ok i just checked it and yes it`s one connection
07:58 chesti created while server starts not while request come
07:59 chesti tx for andsers :)
07:59 chesti answers
08:00 chesti i was afraid that will create db connection for each page refresh
08:00 chesti and i`ll need some pool manager in front of mysql
08:01 chesti but its great how it works
08:01 buu That example isn't exactly designed for high scalability, that being said, don't worry about that until you have to
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08:17 sri buu: high scalability is relative
08:18 sri that example scales just fine
08:18 sri oh, actually it doesn't, my bad :)
08:19 buu -_-
08:20 buu sri: Just curiously, what part struck you as non-scaling?
08:20 sri if the dbh was initialized on demand it would scale a lot better
08:20 sri this way it breaks in hypnotoad and all preforking servers that preload the app
08:21 buu So it would load, spawn a dbh then fork and get a shared dbh everywhere?
08:21 sri yea
08:21 sri DBIx::Connector would make it work
08:21 buu It's like modperl all over again!
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08:23 sri buu: i originally assumed you meant that a blocking database connection wouldn't scale well
08:23 * tempire scales well
08:23 * sri forks tempire
08:24 * tempire zombies
08:24 * buu reaps his children
08:24 * sri kills tempire
08:24 buu HOW CAN YOU KILL THAT WHICH HAS NO LIFE
08:25 sri i am not a clever man
08:26 * tempire respawns
08:26 tempire http://images.tempi.re/behold-nyan.gif
08:26 buu IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US
08:26 * buu shotguns
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08:27 sri http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_P0aZLnQvN9o/THq9j_5a4SI​/AAAAAAAAAA8/NUQbV1VhvUw/s1600/1267695656028.jpg
08:27 chesti lol
08:29 buu I have no comment for this situation.
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08:34 batman marcus: i'm thinking about fixing the documentation for mojo-redis and then making a new release. anything else that should be part of that release?
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08:51 marcus batman: I got nothing
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08:53 batman ok
08:55 memowe batman: sorry for not telling you about my success with Mojo::Facebook - for my task it was the easier and better readable to do a blocking manual API call with Mojo::UA and its json method (only one single request).
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09:11 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/LPjEIA
09:11 good_news_everyone mojo/master 4bad238 Sebastian Riedel: mention SNI and gzip compression in feature list
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09:12 sri not entirely sure if those should be mentioned... since they are user agent only
09:12 sri then again, so is IDNA
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09:17 sri and i have no clue where else to mention those features
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09:34 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/guCfHA
09:34 good_news_everyone mojo/master b36a8e6 Sebastian Riedel: updated feature list
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09:39 sri any buzzwords i forgot?
09:41 marcus bushwords?
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09:46 memowe sri: "obama"?
09:47 memowe vpnpool05-0331:~/code/mojo memowe$ git grep obama | wc -l 0
09:47 memowe s/-l /-l\n/
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09:48 sri sr: you look strangely familiar
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09:54 * sri wonders if just getting rid of Content-Length handling for generated HTTP messages would be smart
09:55 sri if we were always using chunked transfer encoding we could have transparent gzip compression for everything
09:56 sri (streaming)
09:58 sri guess it's not worth it
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10:13 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/i2H4uA
10:13 good_news_everyone mojo/master 1250b40 Sebastian Riedel: updated Mojolicious feature list
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11:18 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/aN7b8g
11:18 good_news_everyone mojo/master 884a089 Sebastian Riedel: updated Changes file
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11:24 * sri releases o/
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11:31 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/S0m63w
11:31 good_news_everyone mojo/master d7c998f Sebastian Riedel: mention compression in FAQ answer
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11:56 chesti hi
11:57 chesti is $self->stash prefered way to pass data between helpers?
11:58 chesti or that should be done other way,,,?
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12:11 batman memowe: no worries! i'm just glad to hear it worked out for you :)
12:12 batman memowe: and it's also nice to hear that i got happy a "customer" :)
12:12 batman s/happy a/a happy/
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12:12 marcus batman: DUDE
12:20 sri marcus: SWEET
12:20 marcus sri: DUDE, WHAT DOES MINE SAY?
12:21 sri marcus: SWEET, WHAT DOES MINE SAY?
12:21 marcus sri: DUDE, WHAT DOES MINE SAY?
12:21 sri marcus: SWEET, WHAT DOES MINE SAY?
12:22 marcus sri: DUDE, WHAT ABOUT MINE?
12:25 sri marcus: SWEET, WHAT DOES MINE SAY?
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12:32 batman marcus: what?
12:33 marcus batman: privmsg :)
12:33 batman i was drawing a new table at work on the whiteboard
12:34 batman i'm going to call the table "awe_some_log" :)
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14:09 amirite how does mojo lexically scope everything in the stash with mojo template?
14:09 amirite i want to know so that i can lexically scope variables using mojo::template with a non-web-app script
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15:37 * sri wonders what the polite way is to point out style issues in pull requests
15:40 marcus sri: commenting each line in upper case!
15:40 sri ;p
15:40 marcus for instance my @queue = (my $entry = Mojo::URL->new('http://localhost/manual')); # THIS IS TRULY A HORRIFIC CONSTRUCT
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15:44 jberger o/
15:45 jberger I always forget to startup my irc client, its still not in my habits yet
15:45 sri \o
15:46 marcus jberger: don't worry, we still love you.
15:47 jberger marcus: thanks
15:47 * jberger feels the warmth of #mojo, or is that my sweater, why is the heat on so high?
15:48 crab i didn't even start flaming you yet
15:48 marcus crab is flamin'
15:48 jberger mmm flamecooked crab ....
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15:57 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ewtRlg
15:57 good_news_everyone mojo/master 8b30830 Sebastian Riedel: mention that real web crawlers should be a lot smarter (closes #411)
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15:58 jberger sri: nice diplomatic solutino
15:58 sri i still want the better example :)
15:59 jberger as always, fetching from xkcd is the preferred target
15:59 sri web crawling is "cool" though...
16:01 jberger the stick man in the hat is not "cool" enough for you?
16:01 sri not sure stealing multiple xkcd comics at once would be that much less code either
16:01 jberger every time I get a permissions error I think of "sudo make me a sandwich"
16:01 * sri too
16:02 jberger well, what's something massively parallel and yet concise?
16:02 jberger weather data?
16:03 jberger high temp of every zip code in america?
16:03 sri maybe it's just me, but i always get this warm and fuzzy feeling when i see all the extracted URLs of the web crawler scroll by and wonder how the hell it got to that site
16:05 jberger its like the "surfing the web" of old, except without all that confounded clicking and reading
16:09 sri hmm, getting rid of $id would make it a little simpler
16:09 sri and it doesn't really add anything to the example
16:09 jberger I guess I do have a question:
16:10 jberger if I were to make a command, that when you run it (mojo mycommand) or more like (galileo mycommand)
16:10 jberger it starts a server with a page that helps you write a config file
16:10 jberger what would you call that command?
16:11 sri we usually call those generator commands
16:11 sri mojo generate app
16:11 jberger I guess thats true, but its mechanism is very different
16:12 sri just a different ui
16:12 jberger not just writing boilerplate, but interactive setting
16:12 jberger and it would even work on an existant config file
16:12 jberger yeah
16:13 jberger while in local development I have been calling it config_page
16:13 jberger but I'm ready to put it on github, so I thought I should give it its real name, whatever that will be
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16:18 jberger again, this is all towards making Galileo installation more like installing Joomla
16:18 jberger except being awesome
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16:19 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/G-QBXQ
16:19 good_news_everyone mojo/master af0d38b Sebastian Riedel: simplify non-blocking Mojo::UserAgent recipe a little
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16:20 sri "galileo conf" or so would seem appropriate
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16:27 sri heh, i could kill another line
16:27 sri return Mojo::IOLoop->timer(2 => \&crawl) unless my $url = shift @urls;
16:27 sri might be less valuable as an example though
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16:37 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/IzND8Q
16:37 good_news_everyone mojo/master 249d8ba Sebastian Riedel: simplify non-blocking Mojo::UserAgent recipe some more
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16:38 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/3Sl_oQ
16:38 good_news_everyone mojo/master 3b6312f Sebastian Riedel: fixed small typo in non-blocking Mojo::UserAgent recipe
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16:41 sri not showing the links would make it a lot smaller, but i guess that really removes value
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18:02 jontaylor I've just updated Mojolicious from roughly 3.0 to 3.55 and a bit of code is breaking on me now, but I have the feeling its because I was doing it badly in the first place
18:02 jontaylor I've got a little CMS section in the app i've built which lets the user specify a URL for the page, I have validation that makes sure they don't pick a URL thats already in the app
18:02 jontaylor I was doing something like this
18:03 jontaylor my $match = Mojolicious::Routes::Match->new(GET => $new_page_url);
18:03 jontaylor my $matched_route = $match->match($self->app->routes);
18:03 sri please don't paste into the channel
18:04 jontaylor noted
18:04 jontaylor before that was returning me a Match object, but now it returns undef
18:04 jontaylor I think my entire approach may be flawed and there might be an easier way which I am unaware of
18:05 sri is what you did documented?
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18:05 jontaylor No, which is why my previous approach was brittle
18:05 sri if it's not documented it doesn't exist
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18:06 jontaylor Is there a better way of checking to see if the app can handle a particular URL ?
18:06 sri that said, Mojolicious::Routes::Match is prolly my least favorite api and needs a redesign
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18:07 sri i'm certain there is, the router has to do it somehow too :)
18:09 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/bl​ob/master/t/mojolicious/routes.t
18:09 sri those might help
18:10 jontaylor thanks, I'm looking at line 193 now to see how I can adapt my existing code
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18:11 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mCa5Ww
18:11 good_news_everyone mojo/master ea0bc22 Sebastian Riedel: test route endpoint
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18:11 sri that test might also help :)
18:12 jontaylor thankyou :D
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18:16 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/h3bI4Q
18:16 good_news_everyone mojo/master c2a0d34 Sebastian Riedel: test no matching route
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18:16 sri and those :)
18:17 * sri still very much dislikes the api though
18:17 jontaylor thankyou for your help sri, managed to get it working again now
18:17 sri especially the need to pass the controller instance
18:17 jontaylor In my app i'm just making a brand new instance and passing it in
18:18 jontaylor which I assume is fairly safe since i'm not going to continue using it after finding the match
18:18 sri yea, it's just for constraints
18:18 sri a host constraint for example would make the match fail
18:19 jontaylor i see
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18:23 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/f5JXOA
18:23 good_news_everyone mojo/master 1dcb1b0 Sebastian Riedel: test root
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18:23 sri that api is something for the 4.0 todo list
18:25 jontaylor The tests are very good in Mojolicious, I tend to start off writing tests but then I stop bothering once business pressure increases
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18:31 * sri is a strong believer of TDD
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19:11 jberger sri: coming back from helping some students, I decided to see if I missed anything on the irclog
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19:11 jberger turns out you guys talked about my example this morning?
19:11 jberger too bad I hadn't reviewed the logs earlier
19:11 jberger I haven't done any scalability work at all. All of my projects have been small local things
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19:12 jberger what would you suggest I do to make hypnotoad (or other pre-forking) play more nicely?
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19:13 jberger would you have the dbh connection stuff inside the helper, rather than the object?
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19:17 jberger if that's the problem then I don't imagine Galileo does it much better!
19:17 jberger https://github.com/jberger/Galile​o/blob/master/lib/Galileo.pm#L12
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19:21 jberger since IIRC, attributes are initialized once, just like file-scoped lexicals
19:23 sri DBIx::Connector seems pretty fool proof
19:23 jberger ok, I'll take a look
19:23 sri but yea, i would lazy initialize the dbh in an attribute on the app class
19:24 jberger does Mojo::Base do lazy?
19:24 jberger or is that DBIx::Connector?
19:24 sri app->attr(dbh => sub { DBI->... }); helper dbh => sub { shift->app->dbh };
19:24 sri Mojo::Base only does lazy
19:26 sri DBIx::Connector simply reconnects whenever $$ changes
19:27 jberger ok, it looks like Galileo follows your example
19:28 jberger has db => sub { ...}; helper schema => sub { shift->app->dh }
19:28 jberger OH! or do you mean to declare the attribute inside 'startup'
19:29 jberger ?
19:30 jberger (shift->app->db, obviously)
19:31 jberger I guess if attributes are lazy, then I'm ok
19:32 sri if you can use "has"
19:32 sri app->attr is only for lite apps
19:33 sri soooooooo
19:33 jberger yeah, I should have noticed no sigil before app
19:33 jberger cool, I'm ok then
19:33 sri which example is better http://hastebin.com/raw/caqufujoya or http://hastebin.com/raw/naqosamike
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19:34 jberger "crawl() for $crawlers-- .. 3;" eeek
19:35 jberger I vote caqufujoya
19:36 sri in a real app it would be worse, but it demonstrates more concepts
19:36 * sri tends towards it too
19:36 sri especially showing Mojo::UserAgent together with a timer is important imo
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19:40 pravus Can someone help me understand how i might do model-ish type stuff in a Mojolicious::Lite app?
19:41 jberger pravus: have you read Growing?
19:42 pravus I guess I'm a little confused because it seems like everything gets attached to Mojolicious::Controller and I'm not sure about the best way to add additional methods to my app to do non-request related stuff (like storing stuff in a database).
19:42 jberger http://mojolicio.us/perldoc​/Mojolicious/Guides/Growing
19:42 pravus jberger: Not the whole thing, probably, but I've been perusing it.
19:43 pravus Is there a particular section?  I see the entry about Models, but it looks like that's for having a separate model outside the main application.
19:44 jberger are you just talking about helpers then?
19:44 pravus I guess so, but it feels wrong to attach a helper.  But is that the recommended way to do it?
19:44 jberger http://mojolicio.us/perldo​c/Mojolicious/Lite#Helpers
19:45 pravus jberger: Do you mind look at this: http://pastebin.com/gkPTAX0h
19:45 pravus Especially the log() method.  Does that look like a sane way to set up an application like that?
19:47 jberger I think that looks fine
19:47 pravus Alright.  I kind of felt that was right, but I think I may just be too used to how Catalyst does things and wanted more separation or something.
19:48 pravus At least, I didn't see any other obvious way to do something like that.
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19:48 jberger sri will know better, but I just think of helpers as methods which are available in more places
19:49 jberger in a lite app you can just define a "method" like sub mymethod { my $self = shift; ... } like normal
19:49 jberger well, not really
19:49 jberger nm
19:49 jberger I'm not used to lite apps anymore
19:50 pravus That's what I was going to do, but $self is always a Controller object.
19:50 pravus That's why I wasn't sure if using a helper was the right way to do it.
19:50 jberger yeah, better stick to helpers if you are going to be in a lite app
19:50 pravus Ok, sounds good.  Everything has been working, but I didn't want to trap myself into a bad design.
19:51 jberger I guess in a lite app, you just make a function, where you can use the `app` pseudo-keyword inside
19:51 pravus Oh... I didn't even think of that.
19:51 pravus Good point, sir.
19:54 jberger but then this is only available inside your app proper, not the templates
19:54 jberger helpers are shared with the templates
19:54 pravus Yeah, I'm good with that.  These are things that probably shouldn't be called from within a view, anyway.
19:54 pravus That's good to know, though.
19:54 jberger as long as you know where you will need which things, then yeah, go for it
19:54 pravus Awesome.  Well thank-you for the assistance.
19:55 jberger np
20:00 tempire hmm
20:01 tempire there needs to be a plugin that examines the url and populates stash 'format' even when a relaxed route is at the end of the url
20:02 tempire *relaxed placeholder
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20:21 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/WjdLLA
20:21 good_news_everyone mojo/master 7f3b4ab Sebastian Riedel: documentation tweaks
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20:21 sri moar simple
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21:42 janus sri: wrt/ gzip overhead: setup/initialization costs and levels of abstraction basically
21:43 janus noticable enough that it was worth writing a lighweight xs module that does exactly and only what compress/uncompress respectively memGzip/memGunzip do
21:44 janus surely not worth a cpan dependency in scope of mojo, but still :)
21:46 janus about to release the code soon, still fiddling with the tests but other than that used in production for quite some time
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22:40 batman marcus: i've started thinking - even though my brain has almost melted now :P https://github.com/marcusramberg/mojo-​redis/blob/1e551df65b5022ae027dcc92dfc​1aff61e93cace/lib/Mojo/Redis/Schema.pm
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23:30 Topic for #mojo is now Mojolicious real-time web framework 3.0 🌈 http://mojolicio.us 🌈 http://irclog.perlgeek.de/mojo/today
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