Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2012-11-26

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00:09 yakubori "und der haifisch der hat traenen…"
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00:33 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5dLOEA
00:33 good_news_everyone mojo/master b038e9b Sebastian Riedel: small optimization
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00:40 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/pAr6MA
00:40 good_news_everyone mojo/master a6d4120 Sebastian Riedel: only update application if necessary
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01:43 freman Is there an easy way to make Mojo::Log prefix messages with a given prefix (or even $0)?
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02:23 freman ok. last question was too hard...
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02:44 mjy freman: if I had to, I'd just redefine Mojo::Log::format ... but it's not a clean solution
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06:20 sri 9665 unit tests, not far away from 10k :)
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08:55 judofyr sri: you here?
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08:57 judofyr sri: I have an idea!
08:57 judofyr for Morbo
08:57 judofyr right now there's some seconds where the app is reloading when the server isn't responding (aka. nothing is listening on the port)
08:58 judofyr this can be annoying because you'll have to refresh all the time
08:58 judofyr so I thought: why can't we listen in the main process, detach it from the IOLoop, fork and attach the server there
08:59 judofyr that way, when the server is shutting down, the port is still open (there's just nothing that accepts it)
09:01 trone Is it possibile disable the cache rendering?
09:01 trone *cached render?
09:05 sri o/
09:05 sri judofyr: no idea if that can work portably
09:06 sri but if you're willing to test it on a few windows perls be my guest :)
09:07 * sri is happy morbo works everywhere now after *a lot* of trial and error, and avoids touching the code
09:12 sri i suspect if you redesign Mojo::Server::Daemon->start and add a ->stop that doesn't kill listen sockets, but stops listening, you would basically be done
09:13 sri the child could pick up the inherited sockets automaticallt with the code we designed for hypnotoad in Mojo::IOLoop::Server
09:13 sri you just ->start and ->stop a daemon in the morbo process before forking
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09:21 judofyr sri: damn windows. it kinda depends on forks :/
09:22 sri perl has a fork emulation for windows, but it sucks
09:23 sri based on the otherwise useless ithreads
09:24 judofyr or, it depends on being able to inherit FDs
09:24 judofyr across processes
09:24 * judofyr knows nothing about Windows
09:25 judofyr sri: there's no Server::steal_handle btw
09:25 judofyr sri: anyway, I'm not going to be able to work on it today
09:25 judofyr maybe I'll try later
09:26 sri well, if you add to the api make it sleek :)
09:30 sri btw. it's not just windows knowledge you need, also windows perl specific quirks, there are lots
09:33 judofyr :)
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10:07 marcus effin' windows
10:08 marcus sri: can't we make the enhanced mode unix-only?
10:08 marcus current implementation on windows, morbo with superpowers on 'nix
10:08 marcus the glitching when reloading is pretty annoying imo
10:09 sri don't think that's much fun to maintain
10:09 sri no point arguing before someone actually tests it on windows anyway ;p
10:10 Vandal you have hypnotoad for nix, isn't it enough?
10:10 marcus Vandal: hypnotoad doesn't do reloading
10:10 marcus restarting even
10:10 Vandal why not enchance it?
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10:11 marcus Vandal: the point of having morbo is that it's a development server, hypnotoad is for production
10:11 marcus automatic restarting on file change doesn't sound like a good production feature.
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10:13 sri there's also another implementation, keep the listen/accept code in the morbo process and just pass the one accepted socket off to a freshly forked worker, which dies with the socket or when the morbo process sends a signal to all active workers
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10:15 sri imo the goal should be to find a solution that works on windows and unix until it has been proven that it wouldn't work
10:16 marcus sri: I agree in principle :)
10:18 sri Mojo::Server::Daemon->start/stop solution i mentioned above should be a lot easier though
10:19 sri you wouldn't even have to touch the handles
10:20 sri since it can reuse MOJO_REUSE from hypnotoad
10:21 sri Mojo::IOLoop::Server->stop even exists already
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10:30 memowe \o/ hellomojo! :)
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10:43 judofyr sri: is it intended that Server->stop doesn't close the server, but leaves the port open?
10:44 sri lulz
10:44 sri i have a patch that seems to work
10:44 sri you won't believe how tiny it is
10:44 memowe :)
10:45 judofyr sri: this seems to work here: http://hastebin.com/kiforinuyo.patch
10:47 sri that would surprise me
10:47 sri if you remove the listen socket it is gone and can't be inherited, just recreated
10:48 sri http://pastie.org/5436596 # here's mine
10:48 sri but it seems to have some problems
10:50 judofyr sri: putting the ->stop in a timer perhaps?
10:50 sri why would i want to run a timer in the worker process?
10:52 judofyr oh, you do it in the worker
10:52 judofyr no, you don't
10:52 sri the manager doesn't run an ioloop
10:53 sri oh wait, i know what's going on :)
10:59 sri http://pastie.org/5436636 # this ugly hack seems to be mostly working
10:59 sri (note the 3 second sleep for better testing)
11:01 sri IO::Socket::IP goes a bit bonkers for no obvious reasons, but otherwise it seems to work
11:01 sri now turn that garbage into a sensible api :)
11:01 * sri runs away
11:01 sri should be enough for windows testing the idea though
11:03 sri some method similar to Mojo::IOLoop->stream for getting the server instances might be sensible... can't think of a good name though
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11:04 sri then you could grab them by id and ->remove them savely
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11:13 sri http://pastie.org/5436690 # confirmed
11:15 sri steps for getting it into core: 1) test on activeperl and strawberry 2) find name for ->thingy 3) make IO::Socket::IP shut up 4) give ->start/stop sensible semantics that are general purpose 5) add tests for everything
11:17 * sri goes to watch the walking dead and eat chocolate ice cream
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11:40 sunson I'd like to serve a static file with custom headers. How?
11:41 sunson The file is going to be in public/, but I'd just like the custom header added if the file name matches a pattern.
11:53 sunson never mind, render_static + ->res->headers->header("Custom" => "Blah") did it.
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14:04 nicomen h.submit_button(c.l('Register email'), class => "btn") end up being: <input HASH(0x586e600)="type" value="Register email">submit</input> # does anyone know why?
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14:08 judofyr nicomen: TT automatically turns the last => into a hashref. so that will invoke ->submit_button(c->l('Register email'), { class => "btn" })
14:08 nicomen ah
14:09 nicomen or...
14:09 nicomen ah yeah you are right, thanks! ;)
14:09 judofyr TT is kinda retarded
14:09 judofyr I've had to do (…, 'class', "btn") :/
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14:14 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih created smooth_morbo (+1 new commit): http://git.io/0NHnfg
14:14 good_news_everyone mojo/smooth_morbo ba5388f Sebastian Riedel: made Morbo restarts a lot smoother
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14:14 sri marcus, judofyr: that's what i have so far
14:15 sri especially the tests are not great
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14:16 sri the name ->accepting sounds stupid too
14:17 nicomen sri: will it make sense to allow registration of methods to Test::Mojo so that one could chain custom tests, like: $t->get_ok('...')->status_is('...')->look​s_like_my_custom_check_for_something('') etc... ?
14:20 nicomen or even group stuff so that $t->is_logged_in()->can_logout_ok() = $t->get_ok(..)->status_is(..)->contains(..)->fo​llow_link(..)->status_is(..)->is_logged_out();
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14:24 sri well, i'm going to abandon the smooth_morbo branch now, someone else will have to finish it
14:25 marcus sri: agree accepting isn't a great name
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14:26 * sri waits for batman to say that we shouldn't add garbage to the ioloop api
14:27 * sri hates the whole api and hopes someone finds a better way to implement it, or it might just not happen
14:27 batman DON'T ADD GARBAGE TO THE IOLOOP API!!!!!
14:27 batman :)
14:27 marcus sri: feels like it should be two methods.
14:28 sri marcus: ?
14:28 marcus Get L<Mojo::IOLoop::Server> object for id or start accepting connections from object.
14:28 batman what's the topic?
14:28 sri it's consistent with Mojo::IOLoop->stream
14:28 marcus Seems like get object for id should be a separate method from 'start accepting from object'.
14:28 marcus batman: our feelings
14:28 sri two inconsistent methods is even worse imo
14:29 judofyr sri: why does ->server and ->client return IDs anyway?
14:29 batman feelings makes stuff messy
14:29 sri judofyr: because
14:29 judofyr encapsulation?
14:29 batman judofyr: what should they return?
14:29 judofyr ->client could return an IOLoop::Stream, ->server could return IOLoop::Server
14:30 sri but it's not a stream
14:30 batman that sounds inconsistent
14:30 judofyr ah, right. async connection?
14:30 judofyr no wait
14:30 sri first a client, then a stream, the id represents both
14:30 judofyr oh, there's a IOLoop::Client
14:31 judofyr then ->client should return IOLoop::Client ;)
14:31 sri it has grown that way, i needed something with a deprecation path back then
14:32 batman i don't get what is useful about accepting()
14:32 marcus batman: we want the reloader to work without stopping
14:32 batman is that really a serious problem you need to fix?
14:34 sri judofyr: the problem with returning objects is that you have to queue them somewhere anyway
14:34 sri now... if you queue them in say Mojo::UserAgent you are opening a whole new can of circular reference worms
14:35 sri while ids are stored very easily
14:36 judofyr ah right. that crappy GC again :)
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14:36 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/-cR76A
14:36 good_news_everyone mojo/master d2b538c Sebastian Riedel: Mojo::IOLoop documentation tweak
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14:37 judofyr I don't understand the flow IOLoop that well. and I'm kinda confused because I've been working on a Mojo::IOLoop in Ruby and I've done things differently there.
14:37 judofyr s/flow/flow in/
14:38 batman is there anyone working on a different gc for perl?
14:38 sri haha, that's not gonna happen
14:38 * judofyr thinks sri is right
14:38 batman why not?
14:39 sri i think the latest argument against it was destruction timing
14:39 sri too much perl depends on exact destruction times
14:39 sri you know, like lexicals going out of scope
14:39 batman ok...
14:40 * batman makes dinner and thinks about that for a while ^
14:40 marcus batman: it's a daily annoyance.
14:40 marcus (the way the reloader works)
14:40 marcus I edit something, then refresh, then get a broken page, then refresh again and test my change.
14:41 * sri wonders if ->stream couls just return ::Server objects too
14:41 marcus that happens many times per day. Guess I should learn.
14:41 sri perhaps too confusing
14:41 judofyr sri: you can still use a refcounting GC though. and just use the tracing one for cycles?
14:41 sri judofyr: yea, but that's not cool
14:42 marcus a billion dollars is cool!
14:42 * marcus has seen the facebook movie.
14:42 sri i think the argument against that was that it would make perl slow
14:42 judofyr well yes, there will be some GC pauses
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14:42 sri no gc breaks are a perl strength atm or so
14:43 judofyr but you can do a lot in a different thread
14:43 judofyr although that requires more funky stuff (write barriers)
14:43 sri yea, perl is really bad at thread safety i believe
14:44 sri our implementation of threads clones the whole interpreter after all
14:44 judofyr sri: I meant a pthread, not a Perl trhead
14:44 judofyr thread*
14:45 sri think i meant to say "it would be a hell of a lot of work"... but i'm a little tired
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14:46 batman couldn't you have use feaure 'gc2'; and then every variable in that scope would act differently?
14:46 sri has anyone tried the smooth_morbo branch on windows yet?
14:47 sri perhaps we should break something on windows again so people come out of the woodwork :)
14:49 batman ;)
14:56 sri dunno, accepting() seemed like the best choice, considering that there are already attributes like max_accept, multi_accept and accept_interval
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14:59 marcus lilo_dallas_accepting_pass
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15:01 sri hmm, actually not a bad idea
15:02 sri something quirky that doesn't fit into the rest of the api would give Mojo::IOLoop some character
15:02 sri bonus points for futurama connection
15:04 marcus lol
15:04 marcus sri: it's actually fifth element
15:04 sri i know, of course!
15:04 sri multipass!
15:05 marcus http://wildwrast.files.wordpr​ess.com/2012/04/multipass.jpg
15:09 sri ->slurm() or so
15:13 marty Mila was so hot in the movie!
15:17 sri maybe something neutral like ->queue()
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15:18 * sri reads up on futurama slang
15:18 sri ->thingamajig()
15:20 sri ->probulator()
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15:24 * b2b joins in the fun
15:25 b2b Bite my shiny metal a**
15:25 b2b i meant: ->bite_my_shiny_metal_455()
15:26 b2b i bet theres no perl module/funtion called like that yet! ok now i shut up and stop being counter productive
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15:37 b2b seriously folks, how about ->listening() ? i freely admit i am not clear on all aspects of how it will be implemented
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20:24 marcus heh
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