Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2013-01-07

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Time Nick Message
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00:12 vervain I believe that most drag object that contain a url of some kind will get 'figured out' by chrome.
00:20 yakubori tempire: "We'll find a way in, Sir. Don't worry…" :P
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00:46 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5d1AQA
00:46 good_news_everyone mojo/master 31faa34 Sebastian Riedel: changed heading style
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00:48 sri apparently metacpan can't handle =head2 C<...>
00:48 sri not sure why i ever used that style anyway
00:53 yakubori interesting that the sessions are in the stash
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09:30 janus Mojolicious mentioned in HPC blog post about Perl as a good example of modern technologies: http://scalability.org/?p=5736 :)
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12:07 sri \o/
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12:15 diegok o/
12:15 n0n hi. when i do a render() in the middle of an action, i'll have to "return" immediately?
12:27 diegok n0n: no, but it will render when your method finish
12:28 diegok n0n: If you need to run code after response is sent you can use the finish event: $c->on( finish => sub{ ... } )
12:28 n0n diegok: thanks. i'm doing some error checking in the beginning and want to return an error. i did this now by render+return. is there a nicer way?
12:30 n0n return $c->render() looks not bad ;)
12:37 diegok n0n: that's fine.
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12:47 n0n is there sth like a default or fallback route?
12:48 n0n say i'd defined a route('/') for GET and PUT (with proper actions) and for all other verbs I need a "method not allowed" action
12:55 n0n really easy: after my route definitions, I add a route('/')->to(cb=>\&method_not_allowed)
12:55 n0n (without spec. HTTP verbs)
12:55 vervain I was just about to post a pastebin for you... but you hit the nail on the head.
12:56 diegok :-)
12:57 n0n only drawback: i've to do that for each route / path
12:58 n0n eg route('/') and route('/:id')
12:58 n0n vervain: :)
12:59 n0n hmm.. maybe I can iterate over all routes and do it automatically
13:00 n0n mpf.... it's a tree...
13:01 vervain route('*') at the end perhaps, effectively overriding 404?
13:05 vervain I think I've done something like ('/app/*')=> 405 before
13:06 n0n this looks very promising!
13:07 sri http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojol​icious/Lite#Wildcard_placeholders
13:09 n0n works like a charme...
13:12 n0n sri: docs are open here. I must have overseen this. sometimes I concentrate on a specific term (default/fallback) and need irc to get rid of my scheuklappen
13:12 n0n :)
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13:53 sri tempire, marcus, crab: what should mojo eval -v 'app->moniker' return?
13:53 sri it's currently HelloWorld.pm, which seem wrong
13:54 sri lite app in a module is a case we don't really handle yet
13:55 sri removing the .pm ending seems like a no-brainer, but should we decamelize too?
13:55 sri we do not decamelize FooBar.pl yet, so there could be inconsistencies and/or breakage if we change that
13:56 sri calling your lite apps foo_bar.pl instead is just a convention so far
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14:01 vervain <off-topic> I'd be interested in this groups take on CPAN Module management/distribution; Module::Starter, dzil, custom scripts, etc.
14:01 yakubori hello o/
14:01 vervain \o
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14:32 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ixhU4Q
14:32 good_news_everyone mojo/master ce256d3 Sebastian Riedel: fixed bug where Mojolicious::Lite applications in modules would generate the wrong moniker
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14:32 sri tempire, marcus, crab: if you think the moniker for Mojo::HelloWorld should not be HelloWorld, now is your chance to say so
14:34 sri just remember that the moniker for HelloWorld.pl is also HelloWorld
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15:37 yakubori <off-topic> does qr() support unicoded characters at all? if so, how? should it be as simple as qr(♥)?
15:42 vervain perl -e 'print "♥" =~ qr/♥/ ? "Yep" : "Nope";'
15:43 yakubori ::o
15:43 yakubori i must have borked something then...
15:43 yakubori thanks, vervain
15:44 vervain np
15:44 sri it's actually not that simple, vervains example compares bytes, not characters
15:45 guest-quest perl -Mutf8 -e 'print "♥" =~ qr/♥/ ? "Yep" : "Nope";'
15:45 vervain *nod*
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16:05 yakubori sri: I was looking at the Mojo::Path tests, and noticed the ♥.html tests, and got curious
16:05 yakubori what if you wanted to use the to_string return of something like that?
16:06 yakubori it looks like, in Dumper, you see its unicode value in the parts array ref
16:15 yakubori perl -e 'use Modern::Perl q|2011|; use utf8; use Mojo::Path; my $path = Mojo::Path->new(q|♥.html|); my $qr = qr(♥); say $path->to_string =~ $qr ? "y" : "n";'
16:15 yakubori that, for example, says 'n'
16:24 yakubori it seems like I would have to do something to the referenced value from qr. but i don't know for sure. e.g Dumper() gives me: qr/(?^u:♥)/;
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16:38 yakubori oh, should I just join the parts perhaps, before trying the qr?
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16:54 yakubori the result from join q|/|, @{$path->parts}; will match the qr if utf8 is used. very interesting…
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17:30 jberger_ sri'
17:30 jberger_ oops
17:31 sri \o/
17:31 jberger_ sri: its not that hard to have a version on each class, perl-reversion can be used to update them all before a release
17:31 jberger_ not saying that you have to of course
17:32 sri yea, i'm not a fan of that
17:32 sri if anything, it's a defect in the cpan toolchain
17:32 jberger_ and if the only problem is that cpan doesn't see it, then its not a problem
17:32 jberger_ right
17:33 jberger_ actually its the indexer that one would worry about
17:33 jberger_ but it seems to handle everything correctly
17:33 jberger_ when I cpanm Test::Mojo, I get the most recent Mojolicious
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18:03 yakubori ok. I think I understand a bit better about the character encoding and regexp. thanks again, gents :)
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18:14 sbmp111 Hi
18:15 sbmp111 I wud like to know  the advantages of the mojo framework over other language frameworks?
18:15 sbmp111 ANy one here to answer?
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18:16 jberger_ sbmp111, for me its built-in no-hassle websockets
18:16 jberger_ and a nice templating engine
18:17 jberger_ but there are plenty others I'm sure
18:17 sbmp111 i wud like to know some comparisons
18:17 sbmp111 which proves that mojo is worth going for?
18:19 sbmp111 which features make mojo superior than other language like java, dontnet or  python framwoeks
18:19 sbmp111 ?
18:19 jberger_ well Mojolicious is Perl not its own language
18:19 jberger_ but as such it has CPAN
18:19 jberger_ so you're already better off
18:20 jberger_ its lighter and more modern (in some respects) than Catalyst (also Perl)
18:20 sri if you're looking for unique features, i'd say growing from lite to full, simple websockets, and easy/fast installation
18:20 jberger_ and its more integrated than Dancer (the other major Perl contender) which might or might not be a selling point to you (it is for me)
18:20 sbmp111 i agree wrt easy installation
18:21 sbmp111 wrt to other langauages like Java or DotNet?
18:21 jberger_ Perl is a dynamic language
18:22 jberger_ the difference is therefore gigantic, and has nothing to do with the framework, but the language
18:23 sbmp111 On what basis should we prove that Mojo is the better framework wrt others in market..
18:23 sbmp111 ?
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18:23 sri we don't deal in absolutes
18:23 sri every framework/language makes tradeoffs
18:24 jberger_ oh, and testing with the Perl testing architecture and Mojolicious' Test::Mojo class is very easy, fast and powerful
18:24 xaka 0 cpan dependencies!
18:24 jberger_ see how I test my Galileo CMS: https://github.com/jberger/G​alileo/blob/master/t/basic.t
18:28 sbmp111 please give me some differences .. or mention unique features which are not there in other web framwworks
18:28 jberger_ we have
18:28 jberger_ everything we have mentioned are things we believe are special features of mojolicious
18:29 sbmp111 test looks very good...nice
18:29 jberger_ now you may go see if some other framework can provide those
18:29 sbmp111 i had a glance
18:30 jberger_ my decision hierarchy: I like the ease and power of dynamic languages (eliminates Java and .Net)
18:30 jberger_ I like the syntax and power of Perl vs the other dynamic languages, plus Perl has CPAN (eliminates Ruby and Python, again this is my opinion)
18:31 jberger_ Mojo is easy to install and get started (eliminates Catalyst)
18:31 inokenty And don't forget oneliners with 'ojo' =)
18:31 jberger_ has websockets and nice testing (eliminates Dancer)
18:32 jberger_ oh and routing via magic strings scares me (eliminates Web::Simple)
18:32 jberger_ that leaves me with Mojolicious
18:32 jberger_ your decision hierarchy may be different from mine
18:32 sbmp111 i too love perl
18:33 sbmp111 mojolicious, moose and other s made me bit difficult to learn..
18:33 sbmp111 those difference s looks good..
18:33 jberger_ mojolicious comes with a (very simple) subset of Moose-like object orientation, called Mojo::Base
18:34 jberger_ but you may use Moo or Moose if you like
18:34 inokenty sbmp111: There is excellent documentation for Mojolicious
18:34 sbmp111 i am going thru..
18:34 jberger_ and the mojocasts: http://mojocasts.com/e1
18:34 sbmp111 is there a comparison chart r any thing like that?
18:35 jberger_ there is no way for the maintainers of any project to maintain an up-to-date feature list of the other web frameworks
18:35 jberger_ its simply not practical
18:36 jberger_ as such, we may tell you the features we feel are important and modern (likely to be unique or at least rare)
18:36 jberger_ then you, in your decision making process should see how those features compare to your other options
18:37 jberger_ this is better for you as a consumer anyway, are you really going to believe a car salesman when he tells you all the reasons his car is better than the other guy?
18:37 jberger_ wouldn't you rather he just tell you the features and let you compare?
18:37 sbmp111 u are absolutely right.
18:38 sbmp111 no doubt in that.. m just trying to do that comparison..
18:38 sbmp111 so that I can put it against my managers..
18:38 sbmp111 m collecting that info..
18:38 sbmp111 got a presentation..so
18:39 jberger_ go look at some other frameworks, maybe try some examples
18:39 jberger_ then come back, and ask if mojolicious supports your favorite features of those frameworks
18:39 sbmp111 suppose if i want to connect to mysql..I should be having mysql installled right?
18:39 jberger_ perhaps it will
18:39 jberger_ mojolicious does not include a model layer
18:40 jberger_ since Perl has CPAN you may use any model tools you like from that huge collection
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18:40 jberger_ DBI will help you connect
18:40 sbmp111 so only view and controller?
18:40 jberger_ DBIx::Class is an ORM
18:40 jberger_ thats correct in some sense
18:41 jberger_ in another, Perl is your model layer
18:42 sbmp111 what is the architecture of Mjolicious abd how it works/.
18:42 jberger_ I use DBIx::Class for most of my "model"
18:42 yakubori sbmp111: to me, it seems the model decision is so there are no hangups with regards to which db to use; sql, nosql, etc.
18:42 inokenty +1 for DBIx::Class
18:42 yakubori pick what you want/need for that part
18:43 jberger_ sbmp111, think about it this way, if you model layer is Perl rather than a framework, you can make other business tools that use that logic that aren't necessarily part of the website
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18:45 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih tagged v3.74 at 36f60d1: http://git.io/_76Etg
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18:47 sbmp111 certainly..
18:50 sri now method/attribute links to metacpan work \o/ https://metacpan.org/module/SRI/Mojoli​cious-3.74/lib/Mojolicious.pm#moniker
18:51 sri so it was the =head2 C<...> not working with the indexer
18:52 sbmp111 What about Mojolicious Architecture?
18:54 jberger_ sri: I like moniker
19:14 * marty likes Mojolicious cuz it has unicorns and rainbows
19:17 yakubori tis easy to use, imho
19:18 marty My favorite things about Mojo: 1) Super active developer and community.  2) Very little legacy cruft - very streamlined foundation 3) No module dependancies (easy install) 4) Great JSON support 5) awesome built in templates 6) super awesome documentation
19:20 sri yakubori: what's the advantage of $path->like(qr/foo/) over $path =~ /foo/?
19:22 sri (referring to https://github.com/kraih/mojo/pull/441/files)
19:22 yakubori sri: i was mostly looking at a hook as motivation, and ran into that unicode issue after looking at the tests. so, i thought perhaps the method could do some work in either case: the joined parts or the to_string return.
19:26 * sri doesn't see any advantages
19:26 yakubori crap. ok.
19:27 yakubori i couldn't get a unicode qr to pass against the to_string, but maybe i just screwed something up.
19:28 sri if all you care about is the charset, then $path->clone->charset(undef) =~ /foo/ will do the trick
19:29 yakubori ah, could that be used then, inside a method like that? i'm thinking in terms of new-intermediate debs just looking for a method to do what they may need.
19:29 yakubori *devs
19:30 yakubori return $self->clone->charset(undef) =~ $regexp;
19:30 * sri is looking for a reason why that method should exist in the first place
19:31 yakubori ok
19:31 sri what's the use case?
19:31 sri why is it better than a plain regex match?
19:32 yakubori what if you have a set of paths, like /foo*, /bar*/, /baz that need to run the same hook? you could run it if that match occurs
19:32 sri you either regex match or use ->contains()
19:32 yakubori it may not be. i was just looking at the Path.pm and its tests, and noticed the unicode tests, and thought there might be enough of an argument to give it a shot :)
19:33 yakubori to abstract those steps
19:33 yakubori ok
19:33 yakubori sorry. thought i might have had something :P
19:35 sri return unless $self->req->url->path->clone->charset(undef) =~ m!^/foo!; vs return unless $self->req->url->path->contains('/foo'); vs return unless $self->req->url->path->like(qr!^/foo!);
19:35 sri don't say sorry, fight for your feature :)
19:36 yakubori "don't fire me, boss! I have kids to feed!" :D :P
19:38 sri could your problem have been % encoding?
19:38 sri then that's your argument, regex matching against % encoded paths is hard
19:39 yakubori one of the tests I wrote was for qr(^/(?:foo|bar|baz)… ya, i suppose so. the method addressed the fact that I wasn't getting a success on unicode matches in addition to what I was doing, but like() would hopefully take care of that.
19:40 sri you need to present your arguments more clearly
19:40 yakubori ya. true
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19:42 yakubori I might be able to do better with a little more experience. I'm stumbling into this a bit, so hopefully I will get better with time.
19:45 sri yakubori: and what about %2F?
19:46 sri example perl -Mojo -E 'say Mojo::Path->new->parts([qw(one tw/o)])'
19:46 sri you join everything with slashes, what are the security implications?
19:46 yakubori i was wondering about that, and thought the join would help. i've got a comparison on the string return vs the joined parts
19:48 yakubori i would really have to dig in on the sec bits more. that's an area where I could use some feedback, for certain.
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19:51 yakubori also, I should not be messing with anything that Mojo::Path does to its data. its data should be read and stored separately for this method.
19:51 yakubori returning its true/false based on those values.
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20:05 sri yakubori: btw. the whole $path_str thing makes no sense to me
20:05 yakubori too much?
20:05 sri it doesn't appear to do anything useful
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20:06 sri as it stands, my vote for that pull request is a clear -1
20:07 yakubori ok. np.
20:07 yakubori if I can find something more reasonable in that vein, I'll make an update
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20:18 yakubori hmm. looks like the tests (I included) pass solely with the $joint_path, when compared against the regexp. so, definitely overkill on $path_str…
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20:43 marcus http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14194650​/mojolicious-websocket-request-query-string #kinda sounds like a bug?
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21:01 wircus ....
21:08 yakubori probably need to see more code, marcus
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22:18 sri yakubori: i might have a different solution for your problem
22:19 sri Mojo::Path->to_route, which will give us a raw version of the path unencoded and in perl characters
22:19 sri as used in routes
22:20 sri you would just do return unless $self->req->url->path->to_route ~= m!/foo$!;
22:20 sri i think it would actually be a performance optimization for the router
22:24 yakubori ok, sri. is that something you're working on now?
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22:26 yakubori brb. need more dew
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22:29 freman so, I'm using Mojo::UserAgent - I want to download a file, and resume when that fails...
22:29 freman is mojo going to return a 500 when the download stops half way?
22:33 yakubori hmm, might want to take a look at http response codes to know for sure
22:35 freman yeh just set up a quick test - start a 5gb download, iptables drop
22:35 yakubori if the "fail" is initiated by the user, i'm not sure if the server would be obligated to throw a 500
22:35 yakubori s/throw/respond with/
22:35 freman I've noticed mojo can return a 500 in rare connection events (I've been playing with a dial up modem if that makes it easier to work out how rare :D)
22:36 yakubori :D
22:36 freman it actually returns 200 and the content so far downloaded...
22:36 freman that's good and bad, but easy to work with - I like it
22:37 yakubori that sounds familiar, even without mojolicious as part of the equation
22:37 freman I'll just make sure the headers include the content-length :D
22:38 freman the FileAsset needs an ->append_to() along with the move_to :D
22:38 freman s/FileAsset/Asset::File
22:39 sri yakubori: i have a full patch http://pastie.org/5644751
22:39 sri and there is indeed a performance gain
22:40 yakubori looks like a winner, sri. very cool :)
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22:42 sri too early for celebration, the other core devs have said nothing about it yet
22:42 * sri pokes marcus, tempire and crab
22:43 yakubori i still like it. concise.
22:43 yakubori donk perl question: ($self->trailing_slash ? '/' : '') <- why does that need parens around it?
22:43 sri it would make some messy routing code go away
22:44 sri yakubori: that's a very good question i can't answer
22:44 * freman steals patch, don't care what other devs say
22:44 yakubori heh
22:44 op I'm trying to use websockets with Mojolicious, but none of the examples I've found have worked.  I've tried the following http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/​Mojolicious/Lite#WebSockets, https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Writi​ng-websocket-chat-using-Mojolicious-Lite
22:44 yakubori op: any errors coming back?
22:46 op I'm getting it to connect, but if I try to add a handler for the messages, I get an error about not being able to find the method "on"
22:46 op refering to the $self->on(messages => ... line
22:46 sri op: output of "mojo version"?
22:47 op 1.98
22:47 sri hahahahahaha
22:47 sri we are at 3.74
22:47 sri yours is like years old
22:48 op When I try to upgrade though CPAN, it says that the Mojo package doesn't have a parsable number.
22:48 freman try install Mojolicious ?
22:48 sri then upgrade Mojolicious
22:49 op Is the Mojo package different than Mojolicious package?
22:49 freman Mojo is the core of Mojolicious, but as far as I know it's packaged as Mojolicious
22:50 op That must have been my mistake.  I'll install the Mojolicious package now
22:50 op Thanks for the help
22:51 freman Hmmm I wonder how rude it is to seek(0,0) on the Asset::File and make changes before using move_to
22:53 op Looks like the socket connects.  Thanks guys.
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23:00 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/VdYs6g
23:00 good_news_everyone mojo/master 9c6510e Sebastian Riedel: added to_route method to Mojo::Path
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23:01 sri it can still be removed, but i like it
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23:06 * Caelum has wrangled mojolicious into our environment, and now I have a new page to do, so I can write a Mojolicious::Lite script instead of a crappy cgi o/
23:06 sri \o/
23:06 cfedde yay!
23:07 anewkirk Caelum, I see SL has departed from DBIC
23:07 anewkirk does it support templating yet?
23:08 cfedde dbic? templating?
23:08 * cfedde spends too much time writing templates to generate sql.
23:10 anewkirk cfedde, this would be templates to generate dbic classes using schema-loader
23:10 cfedde that is also cool.
23:11 anewkirk I see the support is there in the form of a pre-rendering hook, ... but Caelum, it would be nice if you could start us off with an example :}
23:13 Caelum anewkirk: I'm not really sure if/what I'm going to do. You know what happened there, I showed you the log. The thing is I have a job now so I can't work on sl fulltime anymore anyway. Maybe I'll rename it or whatever and do a bit of work on it when I can, but I haven't decided yet.
23:14 anewkirk Caelum, yeah ... I know, that sucks, .. but congrats on the new job. Keep us posted.
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23:18 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/K_iNAg
23:18 good_news_everyone mojo/master d666635 Sebastian Riedel: a few more router tests
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23:26 yakubori sri: do I just close the pull request from earlier, so mods to my fork don't kick off builds?
23:28 yakubori nm, i got it :)
23:28 good_news_everyone joined #mojo
23:28 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/CbVLMQ
23:28 good_news_everyone mojo/master 87cd5ce Sebastian Riedel: fixed a few more headings
23:28 good_news_everyone left #mojo
23:28 sri yakubori: we've only started using travis last week, no clue what triggers what yet :)
23:28 yakubori heh ok
23:29 travis-ci joined #mojo
23:29 travis-ci [travis-ci] kraih/mojo#93 (master - 87cd5ce : Sebastian Riedel): The build was broken.
23:29 travis-ci [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/kraih/mojo/com​pare/d666635e6bc4...87cd5ce6bc32
23:29 travis-ci [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/kraih/mojo/builds/4012205
23:29 travis-ci left #mojo
23:29 sri oh noes!
23:29 sri and here travis breaks again
23:29 yakubori 1,2,3,not it!
23:29 yakubori :P
23:30 sri perl support still seems to be a little fragile
23:36 good_news_everyone joined #mojo
23:36 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/WHuSTg
23:36 good_news_everyone mojo/master d5ae666 Sebastian Riedel: added to_route example
23:36 good_news_everyone left #mojo
23:37 travis-ci joined #mojo
23:37 travis-ci [travis-ci] kraih/mojo#94 (master - d5ae666 : Sebastian Riedel): The build is still failing.
23:37 travis-ci [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/kraih/mojo/com​pare/87cd5ce6bc32...d5ae666f78a4
23:37 travis-ci [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/kraih/mojo/builds/4012314
23:37 travis-ci left #mojo
23:37 sri :o
23:39 yakubori it doesn't say why?
23:39 sri it does, the travis workers are failing
23:40 sri click on the individual job id
23:40 * yakubori cues Scotty
23:41 yakubori ah i see
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23:51 freman when I $res->content->asset($asset) to send a file does mojo automatically add content-length headers?
23:57 yakubori freman: if it's not documented, you should be able to dump the headers and see.
23:57 freman yeh a little difficult, i'll have to write a seperate test (client cert secured and writing a new test is easier than getting certs :D)
23:57 yakubori or a browser tool, optionally
23:58 freman also looking at asset::file which seems to handle start and end range for get_chunk...  so that might make some of life easier
23:58 inokenty freman: http://search.cpan.org/~koorchik/Mojoli​cious-Plugin-RenderFile-0.03/README.pod
23:59 freman except that mojo_chunk_size might overwrite it...
23:59 inokenty There is a plugin for this
23:59 freman bit late now
23:59 freman already wrote one - been working on this since the wee mojo versions :D

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