Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2013-01-08

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 freman they've just added the requirement that the client and the server support resume
00:00 freman (14k files, you wouldn't think resume important until someone unplugs the modem)
00:01 sri oh, adobe is giving away creative suite 2 for free :)
00:02 freman ewww
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00:05 freman also, we send a sha1 checksum header, a suitable mod to that plugin would be to permit extra headers via %args
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00:14 sri https://github.com/blog/136​0-introducing-contributions # about time!
00:49 yakubori sri: i got my one green dot today :P
00:49 sri \o/
00:52 vervain anewkirk, Caelum: What is SL?
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00:53 Caelum vervain: DBIx::Class::Schema::Loader
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00:54 yakubori what's the recommended way to update Mojolicious, to just run the curl command again?
00:55 yakubori s/date/grade/
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00:55 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/A2xF1w
00:55 good_news_everyone mojo/master 618e807 Sebastian Riedel: small optimizations
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00:55 vervain yakubori: I use a perlbrew and cpanminus
00:56 sri perlbrew + cpanm!
00:56 vervain An my perlbrew is managed by a git repo.  So 'cpanm Mojolicious' is all I need to upgrade.
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00:56 sri or actually
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00:56 travis-ci [travis-ci] kraih/mojo#95 (master - 618e807 : Sebastian Riedel): The build was fixed.
00:56 travis-ci [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/kraih/mojo/com​pare/d5ae666f78a4...618e8077bd2f
00:56 travis-ci [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/kraih/mojo/builds/4013340
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00:56 sri perlbrew + cpanm + cpan-outdated
00:57 sri i regularly run "cpan-outdated | cpanm"
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00:58 yakubori crap, man. i became a perl dinosaur before I even got any good :P
00:58 yakubori i've got perlbrew...
01:02 yakubori this is good stuff
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01:04 Caelum I've had some issues with cpan-outdated barfing on weird version numbers and misfiring on some modules
01:06 yakubori (fingers crossed)
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01:07 * tempire likes hotel rooms
01:07 Caelum like it overwrote newer versions of Dist::Zilla with older ones for some reason
01:07 tempire they're so fresh and happy
01:09 Caelum cpan-outdated -p # should be much safer
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01:10 yakubori Caelum: looks like it worked. but i should have probably tried just one or two at a time
01:10 yakubori in any case, i can see that output from a cron being quite useful
01:17 Caelum yeah it will work most of the time
01:18 Caelum but -p will work too, and I recommend using that instead
01:22 sri hmm, wonder if deflate support makes sense for Mojo::UserAgent, it's pretty trivial to add
01:24 sri http://pastie.org/5645332 # seems to be all
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02:10 marty any opions on a good blog platform for business?
02:10 marty Maybe one writtin in Mojolicous?  wakka wakka wakka
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02:27 tempire what makes a blog platform for business?
02:27 sri for business i'd use a hosted blog like tumblr
02:27 * sri throws the deflate patch away again... no big site supports deflate anyway
02:27 tempire strategic blog posting for leveraging customer continuity
02:28 sri tempire: thoughts on ->to_route?
02:28 tempire I don't understand the need for it
02:28 * tempire didn't read all the backlog
02:29 sri the use case is matching the request path in a hook
02:29 sri to limit its scope
02:29 sri problem with Mojo::Path however is that it only generated % encoded paths
02:30 sri ->to_route gives us perl characters, with unicode and everything for easy matching
02:30 tempire sure why not
02:30 tempire it's trivial
02:30 sri same format routes use basically
02:31 * tempire learned about infiniband today
02:31 sri it replaced some pretty ugly code https://github.com/kraih/mojo/commit/9c651​0e2c4f9e26778dca2d14ef96357335d1357#L3L414
02:32 tempire +1
02:32 sri :)
02:33 tempire you're such a great framework founder
02:33 sri \o/
02:33 * tempire hands sri a cookie and an izze
02:33 sri *munch*
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03:43 freman now to remember where I saw the gzip/deflate hooking :D
03:45 freman either that or pre-compress everything as it's uploaded to the control panel and decompress as needed by the client
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04:15 Caelum freman: it's a server config, if the browser sends the appropriate header the server will gzip the response, I think the default apache config has it on
04:18 freman apache isn't our server, mojo is
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10:43 sri o/
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10:50 wircus hay sri.
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10:56 yakubori o/
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11:06 karel9 Hi, how can I correctly use non-blocking get (Mojo::UserAgent) from already running ioloop (in my case Mojo::Server::Daemon)?
11:06 karel9 Here is my broken example - throwing an error "Premature connection close" http://pastie.org/5647336
11:09 sri haha, i've just answered the same question on the mailing list
11:09 sri http://groups.google.com/group/mojolicio​us/browse_thread/thread/78bb709ff1471451
11:11 karel9 sri: I have not googled enough :)
11:11 karel9 thanks
11:12 sri why are you using the low level api if i may ask?
11:14 karel9 karel9: I am trying to implement a kind of a MITM proxy based on mojo's ioloop
11:14 sri i see
11:15 karel9 sri: currently it is just a proof-of-concept
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12:58 rhaen_http hello everyone.
13:08 vervain o/ rhaen
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13:19 b2b hi all
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13:20 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/8tPNZA
13:20 good_news_everyone mojo/master d498d86 Sebastian Riedel: a few more Mojo::Cache tests
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13:23 rhaen_http well, well, sri is committing like hell
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13:40 crab three years or something, but i've never had any of mine last that long. continuous use and long power failures seems to cut it down to 2 years at best.
13:40 crab urk
13:40 vervain A UPS?
13:41 vervain A Flashlight?
13:41 crab batteries for a UPS, yes. (sorry, wrong channel.)
13:41 vervain :-)
13:41 crab i just won a case against the battery manufacturer after two and a half years in consumer court, so i'm excited and not typing carefully ;-)
13:42 vervain congrats.  Always a fine rarity to hear about a consumer win.
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13:54 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Cq_G3A
13:54 good_news_everyone mojo/master 3df3e35 Sebastian Riedel: small optimizations
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14:10 vervain sri: It's been suggested that you may not object if someone wanted to split up Mojolicious into a set of packages if it was automated and maintained, to compromise with the 'but it's one big thing' contenders.  Is this the case?
14:10 vervain I mean split up and distribute on CPAN of course.
14:11 sri don't think so
14:11 vervain You would not object?
14:12 sri i prolly would
14:12 vervain *nod* issue->drop(); :-)
14:13 sri just look up the old discussions regarding that topic
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14:21 mst let's try this from the top
14:21 mst sri: what vervain and I were talking about was, basically
14:21 mst being able to produce a 'Mojo::Standalone::Foo' (please ignore the choice of namespace, it's a placeholder for the sake of discussion)
14:22 mst that is basically a direct copy of what's in the main dist, but split up
14:22 mst so that people who want to be able to get e.g. Mojo::UserAgent can do so without having to explain why they're installing an entire web framework
14:22 sri what's the gain for us?
14:23 vervain I was thinking PR.
14:23 mst um. if somebody else automates it, and it has no effect on the core Mojolicious dist release
14:23 mst then I don't see what the *cost* is for you
14:23 mst and it'll let people get approval to use the lower level tools where currently they can't
14:25 mst sri: I mean, Mojo was originally meant to be an independent toolkit that people could use, and Mojolicious a web framework built on top of that toolkit ... there are some potential users who would like to be able to get the toolkit without the framework
14:25 sri if it doesn't affect core i don't really care
14:26 mst I mean, this could basically be done Class::DBI::Frozen::301 style ... but it seems like it'd be a lot easier to do it collaboratively
14:27 sri half of mojolicious has already been forked into smaller modules :)
14:27 mst yeah, I'm trying to find a way to avoid it being actually forked
14:27 mst but still be able to get parts of it
14:27 mst but still not affect your distribution of core
14:28 mst vervain: if you want to experiment with this, Mousse is sort of prior art
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14:32 vervain mst: Thanks for your help.  It's a nifty idea 'I think'
14:34 mst vervain: while I'm not excited enough to do the work myself, I've no problem with discussing ideas and helping debug something half working :)
14:34 nicomen_ so basically, make Mojolcious a bundle package?
14:34 nicomen_ I know I would have loved stuff like Mojo::Test / Mojo::DOM by itself at times
14:34 mst no
14:34 vervain nicomen_: There would be _no_ changes to the way Mojolicious is today.
14:34 mst sri won't allow -that-
14:35 mst but if we can create a Mojo::Standalone::DOM from the same source code
14:35 mst -that- we can do
14:35 vervain There would be a separate dist/dists that follow it.
14:35 mst that way people who want stuff by themselves can have it
14:35 mst but the core Mojolicious dist is still the all-in-one that people both love and hate :)
14:36 nicomen_ mst: ok ok
14:37 nicomen_ so keep a set of official subsets that are automatically kept up-to-date?
14:37 mst how about we aim for 'a working subset, at all' before we discuss 'official' and 'automatically' ?
14:38 nicomen_ what I have seen complaints about is using homebrew modules that are slightly different from "de facto standardized ones", like HTTP::Request and more. But I _do_ see both sides of those discussions
14:38 nicomen_ mst: hehe, yeah yeah, just trying to see what the end result would be
14:39 mst the real problem there is that the monolithic distribution means that the Mojo stuff can't ever become the new de facto standard
14:39 mst simply due to social factors
14:39 nicomen_ truish, one can argue that intalling Mojolicious is not really that hard of a burden
14:39 nicomen_ except if you are a hardcore catalyst (or dancer (though slightly less) fan
14:40 mst actually, no, it's less of a burden for catalyst users
14:40 nicomen_ I think your ideas are interesting and might deserve a try at least, if not just unofficially
14:40 mst we're used to having lots of dependencies anyway
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14:40 nicomen_ haha, ok, I guess
14:42 mst the problem is lower level stuff
14:42 mst consider, for example, Plack::Test
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14:42 mst even if Mojo's HTTP client interface is superior to the HTTP::Request / HTTP::Response stuff
14:43 mst it'd be basically impossible to argue that Plack should depend on Mojolicious
14:43 mst which means that HTTP::Request / HTTP::Response are going to remain the standard
14:44 sri not the best example, LWP became the standard while it was still monolithic
14:44 mst sri: it's still a lot easier to argue for 'dep on LWP' than 'dep on Mojolicious'
14:45 mst if you'd kept 'Mojo' and 'Mojolicious' separate, it might be a different matter
14:45 mst (remember, I'm -not- talking about technical arguments here precisely, I'm talking about social realities)
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14:56 vervain Any interest in a multitenancy plugin for Mojolicious similar to Rails Apartment Gem?
14:56 sri i don't really want mojolicious to become some kind of standard for anything anymore, that would cost us agility to compete with newer frameworks like meteor
14:57 sri catering to social realities is much less of a concern to me than first class support for HTTP/2.0
14:58 sri mojolicious is still a work in progress, and will keep changing with the web
14:59 sri i guess we have to be somewhat at odds with general perl culture, but that's ok
14:59 nicomen_ sri: so I guess that's acceptable, and hence the suggestion to have parts in dual-life?
15:00 sri i'm perfectly fine with automated forks
15:00 nicomen_ ;)
15:01 vervain nicomen_: the technical problem of 'agility' would still exist.
15:01 sri you just have to be prepared for things to change *a lot* https://github.com/kraih/mojo/issues/423
15:02 sri that's going to happen in 4.0 or 5.0
15:07 sri of course i can see positive as well as negative side effects
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15:07 sri on the plus side, it will show us which modules are too tightly coupled and the api design will get better
15:08 sri but then there will also be feature requests for things that don't benefit mojolicious as a whole
15:11 tempire MOJOCON!
15:16 Mithaldu sri: have you ever looked at how EU::MM pulls in deps while being without deps?
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15:18 crab mst: are you saying it would be possible to argue that Plack should depend on Mojo::Standalone::Message::Request?
15:20 mst given <@sri> i don't really want mojolicious to become some kind of standard for anything anymore
15:20 mst I think that question is pretty much moot
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15:21 crab in terms of social realities, i think that argument would incur fairly violent reactions because of the name alone, so it could be moot from the other side too.
15:23 sri i'm not even sure our HTTP stack is well suited to become a standard, we focus way too much on non-blocking, which pretty much nobody else cares about
15:24 mst the trouble is that without a "complete platform" that focuses on that, the incremental benefits of any particular component handling it are much smaller
15:29 sri anyone remember the discussion about routing hooks? were there any good use cases for something like before_routes?
15:30 sri now that we have after_render, i wouldn't mind trying a routing hook as well
15:30 crab i remember the discussion, but few convincing use cases that came up
15:32 * sri can't think of anything good either :/
15:33 mst sri: wouldn't that be very close to equivalent to Catalyst's prepare_path in terms of the stage of the request?
15:34 mst because I can't remember anything done with *that* that couldn't've been better done some other way
15:37 sri later, more like something that happens in ->dispatch
15:38 sri we have a little data structure of targets we dispatch to before we start, such a hook could rewrite it
15:40 sri hook before_routes => sub { push @{shift->match->stack}, {controller => 'foo', action => 'bar'} };
15:41 sri to add another destination
15:43 sri it's actually been quite some time since i last looked into catalyst :)
15:43 mst sri: yeah, but prepare_path was what *MojoMojo* used
15:43 mst so it predates my knowing Catalyst existed
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16:00 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/sLERdQ
16:00 good_news_everyone mojo/master 52d43aa Sebastian Riedel: a few more Mojo::Path examples
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16:09 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mI4nag
16:09 good_news_everyone mojo/master c1d5d44 Sebastian Riedel: more to_route tests
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16:12 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/iiJ1Uw
16:12 good_news_everyone mojo/master 13c9c8b Sebastian Riedel: make sure to_route always adds a leading slash
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16:13 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih tagged v3.75 at a4ab22b: http://git.io/9qaRbQ
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16:13 sri we need to slow down releases again or we run out of versions :)
16:15 sri but i want the documentation links on metacpan fixed, some were still broken
16:16 sri yakubori: at least you can now use to_route \o/
16:16 yakubori \m/
16:16 yakubori I only wish I knew enough about Mojo I could have seen that as an option :D
16:17 yakubori "so close, yet so far away..."
16:19 diegok sri: then we should have 4.0 sooner :)
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16:47 sri i guess we do have enough new features for that :)
16:51 sri hmm, so vmware is now evil too http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5026071
16:53 sri vert.x is one of the more interesting java projects, together with netty
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17:10 the_real_bif mojolicious is awesome!
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17:52 sri \o/
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18:07 Caelum question, if I do $app->renderer->default_handler('tt'); how do I then have the error screen not try to render a tt template?
18:13 * inokenty never understood the reason of using other template engine than Mojo::Template
18:14 Caelum how about, different people have different reasons
18:14 Caelum like, we have developers here who are used to TT
18:14 sri built in fallback templates have their handler hardcoded
18:16 Caelum I get "[fatal] Processing request failed: file error - exception.development.html.tt: not found"
18:16 sri bug in the tt renderer then
18:16 Caelum I see, thanks!
18:18 sri MOJO_LOG_LEVEL=debug perl -Mojo -E 'a(sub { die })->start' get -M HEAD /
18:18 sri this is how it's supposed to look
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19:08 Caelum sri: yup it's a bug in ::TtRenderer, the template not found detection is b0rked, I'll send the dude a pullreq
19:09 sri Caelum++
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20:28 sri marcus: oh wow, even more rails attacks https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ru​byonrails-security/61bkgvnSGTQ/discussion
20:29 sri lulz http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5028270
20:33 sri we could have been in a similar situation though, glad we replaced Storable with JSON for serializing session data :)
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20:41 anewkirk automation and generalization usually results in failure somewhere at some-point
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22:09 esskar hi
22:09 esskar when i have a route get '/hello/:foo'
22:10 esskar and i request '/hello/foo.bar'
22:10 esskar $self->stash->{foo} eq "foo"
22:10 esskar and mojolicious tries to render hello.bar.ep
22:11 esskar is this by design or is something wrong?
22:12 sri o/
22:12 sri design
22:12 sri short answer, try '/hello/#foo'
22:13 xaka esskar: you should use http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojoliciou​s/Guides/Routing#Relaxed_placeholders
22:14 esskar xaka++
22:15 esskar thanks, i read that, but i just overlocked th #
22:15 esskar thanks
22:15 sri and about formats http://mojolicio.us/perldo​c/Mojolicious/Lite#Formats
22:16 esskar sri++
22:16 esskar as always
22:16 esskar have been away from perl for a while now
22:17 esskar but sri, really good work
22:17 sri \o/
22:17 esskar and of course everybody else who contributed
22:23 sri wonder if something similar is possible with Catalyst::Action::REST and DBIx::Class http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5028750
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22:24 esskar ok. got to go.
22:24 sri mst: perhaps of interest to you
22:34 Caelum sri: dbic has lots of vectors for sql injection, depending on how you use it
22:34 Caelum order_by => '(DROP TABLE users)' # lol
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22:44 cfedde with power comes responsability.  About the time that a UI becomes useful it can be used to wreck havoc.
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23:04 tempire I don't understand why no one has implemented put/delete/patch in their browser.
23:04 tempire all it would take is for chrome to do it.
23:08 sri tempire: because this https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Pu​blic/show_bug.cgi?id=10671
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23:12 tempire damnit
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23:16 sri tempire: i think you would have liked CES 2013 :D http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/8/3850056/qual​comms-insane-ces-2013-keynote-pictures-tweets
23:21 tempire whoa
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23:22 tempire Everything about that sounds painful.
23:23 tempire Qualcomm is trying to be cool now?
23:23 tempire When did that happen?
23:34 vervain A few hours before the CES keynote apparently.
23:35 sri :D
23:35 marty omg that's scary.  Paul Jacobs and Steve Ballmer trying to act hip?  I'm not quite as old as they are and not as smart, but even I know when it's time to keep my mouth shut.
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23:35 * sri totally lost it at big bird
23:37 cfedde wires.
23:37 marty The whole thing wreaks of old guys trying to relate to youth.  Hence the clip from Blade II.  After all, all young people like gory movies, errr, right?
23:38 * marty like elmo
23:38 sri as old people i can't confirm this :(
23:38 vervain Not to mention that anyone who saw Blade II at the movies isn't exactly 'youth' any more.
23:40 marty btw,  I settled on sg1 as my series to watch.  Seems kinda fun.  I tried bsg  and I might go back but I had a hard time with the casting.  The actors, especially the females, seemed way to young for the roles.
23:40 sri marty: blasphemy!
23:42 sri tried firefly yet?
23:42 marty not yet, just previews.  it looks fun also.
23:42 sri it's just one season and a movie
23:42 vervain bsg and firefly are sg1^100
23:42 sri best scifi ever
23:43 marty I liked the darker theme of bsg.  Kinda neat for a tv show.
23:43 sri stick with bsg, it's so worth it
23:43 marty ok.  I'll do firely in between the sg1 episodes.
23:44 marty ok.   I'll take you word for it.  Does it get better or worse as the season progress?
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23:44 vervain Firefly can be done in a day or two if you really mean it. :)
23:44 tempire firefly is the best forever
23:44 marty I gotta tell ya however, the girl that works on the fighter ships is all of about 16 and I never see any grease on her.  She better get to work soon.  :)
23:45 sri bsg gets better, then weaker, then better again
23:45 tempire marty: humans are a dying race.  they take what they can get.
23:45 sri marty: oh, she will
23:45 tempire if you just want to have fun, sg1
23:45 vervain Oh and remember... the crew are people assigned to decommission the ship to a museum.
23:46 sri right, young crew is part of the plot i believe
23:46 marty Ahhhh, I missed that one
23:46 marty Hmmmm
23:46 marty I started at season 1 episode 1.  Maybe there was a pilot or something?
23:46 sri totally inexperienced soldiers are the last hope for humanity and so on
23:47 marty That makes more sense.
23:47 vervain Young/near retirement/not exactly ranking/etc
23:48 * marty feel much better now about the total too young to be fighter jocks thing.  :)
23:48 vervain It started off as a two part miniseries. Which is pretty much required viewing.
23:48 sri bsg has a lot of depth, don't think there is anything that doesn't make sense
23:48 marty ok.  I see I messed it up already.  I will reboot into the mini-series to get the critical info.
23:49 sri it's the kind of series you can rewatch and discover new things
23:49 sri oh, you messed up big time there!
23:49 vervain :-)  Same goes for firefly.  The pilot 'Serenity' is 1 1/2 hours long... required viewing also.
23:49 * marty hangs his head in shame
23:49 marty ahhhhh
23:50 marty ok.  did'nt know firefly had a pilot either.  Ok.  Makes sense.
23:50 sri and don't forget to finish off firefly with the movie, serenity
23:50 marty Ok, how about sg1?   I saw the movie
23:50 jzawodn joined #mojo
23:50 vervain If you're using Netflix or something it should still always be the first episode.
23:50 tempire marty: you likely did not see an sg1 movie
23:50 tempire you might have seen stargate the movie
23:50 marty I saw the stargate movie, with curt russell I belive
23:51 sri sg1 is ostly procedural, you can skip half a season and not miss much ;p
23:51 marty yep
23:51 marty ahhh, good, just like my programming skills
23:51 tempire the movie is the foundation, but sg1 has very little to do with it.
23:51 vervain In fairness sg1 goes more into the backstory than the movie.
23:52 * vervain admits hating the movie.
23:52 sri sg1 is typical canadian scifi i believe, rather cheap in comparison to bsg
23:52 * tempire dunks sri
23:52 marty ya, bsg production quality seemed quite high
23:52 sri all new planets look like canadian woods!
23:52 * sri runs
23:52 tempire sg1 and bsg aren't even up for comparison.
23:53 tempire completely different types of shows
23:53 * marty steps back and ducks.  :)
23:53 tempire sg1 is just fun.  bsg is about torrid humanity
23:53 sri puzzling how syfy managed to produce something as high quality as bsg
23:54 tempire if you want canadian, try red dwarf
23:54 tempire no woods, though.
23:54 marty There are all good however, we all know who reigns supreme in the sci genre.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM4YJ-jNteY
23:54 sri i actually liked stargate universe more
23:54 vervain What's Red Dwarf got to do with Canadian?
23:55 tempire oh, it's british.
23:55 tempire whatever.  canada is just distilled british humor with cross dressing.
23:55 sri marty: if you're into mystery Lost might worth a look too
23:55 tempire LOST IS AWESOME
23:56 tempire don't let anyone tell you anything
23:56 tempire ever.
23:56 tempire about any of it.
23:56 sri the slightest spoiler will ruin lost for you
23:56 tempire if they do, they hate you.
23:56 tempire destroy them.
23:56 vervain I started watching a season once having skipped the previous.  Not recommended. :)
23:57 sri you were basically lost
23:57 vervain It was me that was Lost :-)
23:57 vervain <snap>

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