Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2013-02-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 jberger sri: I'm curious, what did TPF sponsor?
00:02 jberger some specific functionality, or just general development
00:06 sri jberger: documentation
00:06 jberger ah yes, that's important too
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00:27 jberger http://www.meetup.com/Windy-City-Pe​rl-mongers-Meetup/events/104660612/
00:27 sri hmm, i think the most annoying thing about non-blocking code is exception handling
00:28 mawuli_ypa Hi, noob here. Working on a mojo app and would like to redirect user to a different place if a condition is met
00:28 mawuli_ypa tried that within the startup method and i get an error. i did $self->redirect('example#install')
00:29 mawuli_ypa within the startup method block.
00:30 mawuli_ypa all i want to do is when the app starts, first check for a condition and then redirect to the right place.
00:30 sri jberger++
00:31 sri mawuli_ypa: when the app starts there is no request, you're in the wrong context
00:32 mawuli_ypa ohk. I just want to check if a file exists and if it does, redirect user to a different place.
00:32 mawuli_ypa how do i go about it?
00:32 jberger mawuli_ypa, do you want to redirect all requests or just for certain requests?
00:34 jberger depending on the answer to that you should look at hooks, bridges or the plain-old controller
00:34 mawuli_ypa basically an installation of the app via the browser. So when you first run the app, if a file exists, i assume you are new and i redirect you to the appropriate place to provide the setup info
00:35 jberger that is probably a special case of the '/' route/controller then
00:35 jberger or else '/install'
00:36 mawuli_ypa ohk
00:36 mawuli_ypa thanks
00:36 jberger any '/' => sub { my $self = shift; return $self->redirect_to(...) unless ...; [other cases follow]}
00:37 jberger or else, in startup, add a hook unless the file exists
00:37 mawuli_ypa i can write such code within the startup block?
00:37 mawuli_ypa It's a full Mojolicious app?
00:38 jberger $app->any('/' => sub{ ... });
00:38 jberger ::Lite is a very tiny wrapper
00:38 mawuli_ypa ok. Thanks!
00:38 jberger but again, you might also look at adding a hook if setup is not complete
00:39 * jberger might think about that for galileo eventually
00:39 mawuli_ypa ok.
00:40 mawuli_ypa i have been following Galileo
00:40 mawuli_ypa been playing with it
00:40 jberger http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojolicious#hook
00:41 jberger liking it well enough?
00:41 jberger file uploads are coming soon!
00:41 mawuli_ypa Yh, hope it will move faster
00:41 jberger I'm a little bogged down with real life atm
00:41 mawuli_ypa i need a modern CMS ASAP
00:42 jberger defending my doctoral thesis soon
00:42 mawuli_ypa partly why i am attempting to build one myself :(
00:42 mawuli_ypa ohk... that's understandable
00:43 jberger what does galileo lack that you need (not that I'm claiming its complete, it certainly isn't)
00:43 jberger ?
00:43 jberger just curious for future reference
00:44 mawuli_ypa custom routes or slugs
00:44 mawuli_ypa simple file manager
00:44 mawuli_ypa disqus comment integration
00:45 jberger file manager is planned
00:45 jberger disqus is just extra html/css/js right?
00:46 mawuli_ypa ORLite instead of DBIx
00:46 jberger I have to say, if I move from DBIx it would probably be to Mango
00:46 mawuli_ypa Yh, but user must paste the plugin code, i think
00:46 mawuli_ypa you mean Mongo?
00:47 jberger both :-)
00:47 mawuli_ypa LOL
00:47 mawuli_ypa why Mongo?
00:48 jberger http://blog.kraih.com/post​/43199352166/mangolicious
00:48 jberger because sri is building Mojo integration for it
00:48 jberger would be fun to play with
00:49 * sri can confirm that MongoDB is fun
00:49 jberger the thing that stops me is that the database itself can't be installed from CPAN (that I'm aware of)
00:49 jberger which is a design goal of Galileo
00:49 sri jberger: but you can have a free one hosted in the cloud
00:49 jberger that would be one solution
00:50 sri 512mb for free
00:50 jberger other might be an Alien::Mongo module
00:50 jberger sri: where is that from?
00:50 sri https://www.mongohq.com and https://mongolab.com
00:51 * jberger has another project where that might be useful
00:51 sri both are top notch
00:51 sri one of the reasons i picked mongodb was the awesome cloud hosting providers
00:51 sri Mango was developed completely against a 512mb free mongohq database
00:51 mawuli_ypa IMHO, ORLite is very small. fits in the design goal of Galileo.
00:52 mawuli_ypa but, truth is, would love to play with Mongo!
00:52 sri thing about mongo is, you need to know the quirks
00:52 * jberger writes that down
00:53 sri but it has countless really fun features
00:53 jberger Galileo defaults to SQLite, but yeah DBIC is rather heavy
00:53 sri like capped collections and tailable cursors (like a message queue where you can wait for new documents to arrive)
00:54 jberger sri: thats cool
00:54 sri or ttl collections (you add a timestamp to a document and it expires automatically)
00:55 * marty also confirms mango/mongoDB  funess
00:55 jberger so you could have a logged chat, where all the users (preforked servers) get notified via websocket by the tailable cursor, and logging happens as a by-product
00:55 sri the newest is full text search, you just add a text index on a field and it's ready
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00:56 jberger is there something like an ORM for it? Meaning can I get an object out of a result? Might not be hard to hack yourself, but I've gotten kinda used to DBIC doing it for me
00:57 sri that would be an ODM
00:57 sri object document mapper
00:58 sri mongo is schema-less, you just put json documents into it basically
00:58 jberger I thought there must be some name for that for NoSQL, I just hadn't found it yet
00:58 sri for Mango there is no such thing yet, but the most popular out there is prolly Mongoose for node.js
00:59 sri only a matter of time until it gets ported if there's demand
00:59 jberger I didn't expect Mango would have it yet, I should have phrased that better
00:59 jberger but I imagine someone might build one on top of it eventually
00:59 sri personally, i'm fine with storing data structures atm
01:00 jberger how does many-to-many work? can the documents reference other documents?
01:00 sri the basic api feels much like an ORM already
01:01 sri no hard references, you just point at the unique _id field and make two requests
01:01 jberger ok
01:01 jberger I assumed as much
01:01 sri it's a possible future Mango feature though
01:01 jberger so mongo supports it, just not mango (which I realize is very new)
01:01 sri some drivers can automatically resolve those soft references
01:02 sri naah, it's just a convention
01:02 jberger oh the driver does it, that makes sense
01:03 sri many things in mongo are conventions, the basic features are quite simple really
01:03 jberger when I have more time, I will def look into these things
01:03 marty While converting our ecommerce stuff over to Mongo I've gone from over 100 tables to about 9 collections.    I'm very happy.   :)
01:04 jberger that said, I probably should return to modeling electron lenses rather than data
01:04 jberger ;-/
01:04 * jberger is ready to be done with this paper
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01:06 * sri thought he would miss transactions with mongo, but the atomic find_and_modify operation works just fine
01:07 * marty nods
01:07 mawuli_ypa can't i just redirect to a controller without first checking against the available routes?
01:07 marty I kinda wish Mongo allowed you to write to replicas, that would be kewl
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01:09 marty but it's so fast that's it's not a big deal.   I love being able to make  a single query into a collection and pull out objects that used to take 10 joins to complete
01:12 sri yea, multi-master would make sense now that they are pushing read operations on replicas
01:13 sri they should just make mongos a general purpose proxy so we don't have to worry about any of that ;p
01:14 sri just put a bunch of mongos in front of the cluster and be done with it
01:14 jberger mawuli_ypa, thats basically the before_dispatch hook I think
01:15 mawuli_ypa ok. great
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01:15 mawuli_ypa is it possible to combine templates in one file
01:15 mawuli_ypa say header.html.ep, footer.html.ep, menu.html.ep
01:15 mawuli_ypa etc
01:16 mawuli_ypa all into say default.html.ep?
01:37 jberger sri: I might make my talk a meta-talk: given by a mojolicious app: https://github.com/jberger/WCpm-Mojo​licious/blob/master/presentation.pl
01:37 jberger two columns and PPI syntax highlighting
01:37 jberger n-columns actually
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02:47 jberger http://blogs.perl.org/users/joel_berger/201​3/02/ppi-highlighted-mojolicious-quine.html
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03:19 buu Quick idiocy check, should $self->redirect_to; send a 302 to the browser?
03:20 buu Oh, it does.
03:20 buu But chrome isn't displaying the get request I guess
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09:45 ghandi Hi There!
09:46 ghandi For the first time i want to contribute to cpan. I've got a little Mojo-Command to unwrap the Bootstrap library and i want to contribute it as Mojolicious::Command::generate::bootstrap. My question now is, do i need to Register this namespace for this purpose? Or how is this all going on?
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12:01 judofyr HEY MOJO!
12:02 judofyr HOW ARE MOJO TODAY?
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13:15 bzero Why i18n plugin rewrite urls? Is it available to turn off this "feature"?
13:20 judofyr bzero: rewrite URL?
13:21 judofyr bzero: you mean the url_for?
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13:26 bzero some /path/to to /en/path/to
13:27 bzero judofyr: So I do not know how to disable this feature.
13:27 judofyr bzero: that should only happen if you have a stash-variable called "lang"
13:28 judofyr bzero: I'm not sure if it's possible to disable :/
13:31 Vaewyn good day all...  I have "interesting" behavior that I am wondering if there is a way to stop...  I am trying to protect all paths by forcing logins...  I have that part working to an extent... at least on the outside it appears to work...  but I still have the actions being run even if the auth plugin says to redirect... what am I missing?  Exampl'ish code at  http://pastebin.ca/2315981
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13:36 judofyr Vaewyn: you should return 0; from local_auth to avoid more routes
13:39 Vaewyn judofyr:  argghh... thanks...  my mod_perl2 engrained reflexes are killing me on these :P   Moving the redirect up and return 0 fixed it.
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13:54 bzero judofyr: As I suppose I should not use lang stash variable, yes?
13:55 judofyr bzero: yeah. but that really ought to be configurable
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14:32 rihegher Hi there,
14:33 rihegher I'm trying to figure out what makes Mojolicious a "real-time" web framework.
14:33 rihegher Is it because of it's support for websocket out of the box?
14:33 rihegher Is it because it allows to make non-blocking async IO call?
14:34 rihegher I mean what is the main argument I should use to sell it as a real-time web framework?
14:35 marty websockets and non-blocking are pretty big features and imo, would definitely qualify as good selling points.
14:37 rihegher That's  what I was thinking
14:38 rihegher I was just wandering if there was not something else
14:39 marty Things like low dependancies for easy install, really good docs, great test suite are also good things to keep in mind
14:41 rihegher It's good point too. But if websocket support is a big feature then I'm a bit surprised not to find more examples using websocket with Mojo.
14:41 marty Now that we have a non-blocking driver for MongoDB, more real-time stuff should even more fun.
14:41 rihegher except this one :http://blog.kraih.com/post/43197825032/mojo​licious-hack-of-the-day-testing-websockets
14:42 rihegher Yes hopefully, I haven't played much with it for now but will
14:42 marty Websockets are still fairly new.  I'm not sure if they would be considered "mainstream" yet.
14:43 marty However, your in luck.  jberger has been spending a lot of time on his project and it uses websockets.    https://github.com/jberger/Galileo
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14:45 rihegher thank for the link, I've seen Galileo before
14:45 rihegher but didn't know it was using websockets
14:46 marty yea, he has been hacking hard on it for a while now and really been tweaking on the websocket stuff.   I think he got a headache one day from it.  :)
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15:01 vervain Always good to let someone else do the headache thing first :-)
15:15 sri rihegher: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojoli​cious/Guides/Cookbook#REALTIME_WEB
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15:20 tempire jberger: if you can find a way to have galileo automatically set up a mongohq account, or take existing credentials, that would be hot
15:24 rihegher sri: I've read this already
15:24 rihegher and I actually found this pretty confusing.
15:25 rihegher When I read the first sentence at first I thought that mojo were supporting Websocket AND Comet fallback for older browser support.
15:25 rihegher But it's not the case
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15:26 sri well, it supports the technologies, the fallback is just not automatic
15:26 rihegher I did have a look at PocketIO
15:26 rihegher But haven't found much people using it
15:27 rihegher and so few examples
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15:29 ghandi i'd like to your Mojo::UserAgent together with CouchDB. This works great until it comes to Databasename with an / in the name. CouchDB allows this by escaping / to %2f...but %2F will be replaced by Mojo::Path back into a real / when sending such a request through Mojo::UserAgent. Is there any way to workaround this?
15:29 ghandi s/your/use/
15:33 rihegher Does any of you have already tried PocketIO with mojo ?
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15:39 jberger_at_work rihegher, my spin-off project GalileoSend uses both websockets and Mojolicious' non-blocking features to send files via websockets
15:40 jberger_at_work https://github.com/jberger/GalileoSend
15:41 jberger_at_work tempire, that would have to wait until (a) Galileo moved to Mango or (b) implementing a DBIC-Mongo interface layer
15:43 jberger_at_work rihegher, websockets are really cool. they take a little bit of boilerplate to get going, especially on the javascript side
15:43 rihegher jberger_at_work: thanks I'll have a look at it.
15:43 jberger_at_work but the example from the mojolicious dist shows how that works
15:43 rihegher jberger_at_work: I'm sure websocket is cool
15:44 rihegher jberger_at_work: but I've played with node.js and socket.io and it was cool to got fallback working for browser that doesn't support websockets
15:45 jberger_at_work https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebS​ockets/Writing_WebSocket_client_applications
15:45 jberger_at_work is really good for the client-side stuff
15:46 jberger_at_work yeah, the fallback stuff is nice in concept, but most browsers support it now
15:46 jberger_at_work and with the `if ( ! WebSocket in Window ) {}` check you can tell people that they should upgrade
15:47 jberger_at_work for Galileo its not such a big deal because only the editing features need the websockets
15:47 jberger_at_work presumably if you are installing/administering a Galileo site you knew you needed them going in :-)
15:49 jberger_at_work to the room at large:
15:49 jberger_at_work and especially to AZAWAWI when he stops by
15:49 jberger_at_work mousetrap.js http://craig.is/killing/mice
15:49 jberger_at_work for adding keyboard events
15:50 rihegher Ok but what if I want to benefit of the websocket feature on a mainstream website
15:50 rihegher A big part of user that comes to the website i'm working on are still on IE7 or IE8
15:51 rihegher and websocket is only supported from IE10!
15:51 rihegher I can't just tell them to upgrade
15:51 jberger_at_work some kind of client-side fallback
15:51 jberger_at_work http://code.google.com/p/j​query-graceful-websocket/
15:51 jberger_at_work luckily I'm not in your spot
15:51 jberger_at_work so I'm not the one to ask
15:52 judofyr lol jquery?
15:52 jberger_at_work just the first thing I found when I googled
15:52 judofyr also, today I learnt about https://github.com/wandenbe​rg/nginx-push-stream-module
15:53 rihegher Is there a reason why you don't use jquery-graceful-websocket yoursefl or PocketIO or any similar solutions to just get socket like connection without paying attention to the transport layer?
15:54 rihegher or maybe it's just me that is too lazy
15:55 rihegher But with socket.io I was able to write a real time chat that was working with any browser I have tested including IE within 30 minutes
15:56 rihegher And because all this is still new I'm sure most of lazy people like me will look for this kind of solution
15:57 rihegher unless there is a particular reason why it's better not to use a solution that is providing websockets and fallback out of the box
15:57 rihegher rather than using pure websocket
16:01 rihegher don't get me wrong I'm not saying that socket.io likes solution is the must but if it exists and it works and it makes real time easier to implement then why don't use it?
16:05 sri rihegher: you're welcome to build a socket.io plugin for mojolicious, but in core we will never support it
16:07 rihegher sri:i'm sure of that but what i'm trying to figure out is if it's a good idea to use a socket.io like solution instead of just websocket
16:08 rihegher because if most of people using mojo implements pure websocket and no fallback then it might be a reason for that
16:08 sri there are also client side flash fallbacks for the websocket api
16:10 rihegher sri:is really a good fallback solution? I'm not sure it's covering smartphone browsers that doesn't support websockets
16:10 rihegher s/is/is it/
16:13 ghandi sri: i'd like to your Mojo::UserAgent together with CouchDB. This works great until it comes to Databasename with an / in the name. CouchDB allows this by escaping / to %2f...but %2F will be replaced by Mojo::Path back into a real / when sending such a request through Mojo::UserAgent. Is there any way to workaround this?
16:13 ghandi s/your/use/
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16:31 Mikey in situations where you're starting your app from another process, e.g. hypnotoad, is it possible to tell when a specific call to startup() is goign to result in a process that's goign to bind to the listen ports
16:31 Mikey liek if i wanted to fork() something of my own, and only wanted to do it once
16:31 Mikey somewhere before prefork too because i have stuff i need shared with the forks
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16:57 jberger_at_work rihegher: For my purposes I would try to use the client-side fallback
16:57 jberger_at_work I think this might work too https://github.com/gimite/web-socket-js
16:58 jberger_at_work the reason being, you can have your webapp just speaking websockets
16:58 jberger_at_work and your client can either use native websockets or the fallback
16:58 jberger_at_work and eventually when you stop supporting the fallback, almost all of your code stays the same
16:59 jberger_at_work just remove the compatibility files and their imports in the template
16:59 jberger_at_work but that's just me
17:01 rihegher Jberger_at_work: ok so there is no particular reason
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17:03 jberger_at_work rihegher: the less compatibility code the better :-)
17:03 rihegher about https://github.com/gimite/web-socket-js the fallback is flash socket
17:04 rihegher i'm just not convinced about flash being a good fallback solution for mobile browsers that doesn't support websocket
17:04 rihegher The first android phone I had did not support  websocket
17:05 rihegher and I never add the opportuniti to install a flash plugin on it
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17:09 sri if your goal is to support legacy platforms from 10 years ago, i'd just use ajax and ignore everything else
17:10 Vaewyn rihegher: never used it...  but this might take the sting out...  not flash...  but does it   http://code.google.com/p/j​query-graceful-websocket/
17:12 rihegher sri:My goal is to be able to convince people (and myself first) that they can implement websocket with fallback as easily with Mojo than with node.js
17:13 sri rihegher: they can't
17:15 sri pretty sure that's what i already said an hour ago
17:16 rihegher Well I'll try to make PocketIO works with mojo
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17:17 sri that will be a huge mess
17:17 rihegher sri:why that?
17:17 sri liek i said, the correct way would be a mojolicious plugin
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17:18 sri because PocketIO is a hack that breaks out of PSGI sandboxes, and which only very few PSGI server support, and which is incompatible with all higher level mojolicious real-time web features
17:18 sri it is pretty much guaranteed to suck
17:20 rihegher Ok
17:21 sri anyway, socket.io is a huge pile of pointless abstraction
17:22 sri if all you need is fallbacks, engine.io would be the right choice
17:23 sri or sockjs
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17:25 sri ghandi: giving %2f special meaning is a huge security hole and not portable, just don't do it
17:26 ghandi well it's not i who wants to do it. The CouchDB-Guys do it...i don't like i too :D
17:27 sri if you want it you have to work for it
17:27 sri perl -Mojo -E 'say Mojo::URL->new("http://localhost")->tap(sub { $_->path->parts([qw(test foo/bar 123)]) })'
17:29 rihegher sri:thank you, I'll have a look engine.io and sockjs
17:32 ghandi sir: thanks for this guidance
17:33 sri http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/ima​ges/newsfeed/000/343/462/79a.gif
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17:46 jberger_at_work sri++
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19:20 buu Is there a better place to read about bridges than https://metacpan.org/module/Mojo​licious::Guides::Routing#Bridges ?
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19:30 maxhq Hi all, is there a way to replace the base controller that is used by Mojolicious to render the exception page?
19:30 maxhq That is: I don't just want to replace the page, but do some work before...
19:32 buu Can you do that work with a hook?
19:35 mattp seeing t/mojo/cgi.t failing on 3.85, its not printing anything to stdout/stderr
19:35 mattp is this known?
19:37 buu mattp: Did you check cpan testers?
19:37 mattp buu: yes. not seeing it
19:38 maxhq buu: well, I don't want to replace any magic... I'm searching for several hours for a good way to do exception handling.
19:38 mattp even with perl -d its not printing to stderr, not exactly sure whats happening. either local *STDOUT is being wonky or test::builder
19:39 * sri just added $collection->drop_index and $collection->index_information
19:40 buu A wile sri appears!
19:40 buu wily?
19:40 marty sri++
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20:05 sri \o\
20:05 sri /o/
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20:56 tempire \o_
20:56 tempire |o|
20:56 tempire _o/
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22:45 moltar Any clue on what is going on here? https://www.evernote.com/shard/s25/s​h/68ccb1ea-b2cd-4774-8a7b-f90ddcb3df​50/ef089be09fd3e29d60a1051f5e1d4a36
22:46 moltar Seems to be the mapping is correct, but it doesn't work ...
22:46 moltar code: https://gist.github.com/moltar/5000407
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