Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2013-02-22

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01:27 jberger \o/
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01:28 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/FZnR8g
01:28 good_news_everyone mojo/master 6227ec7 Sebastian Riedel: welcome to the Mojolicious core team Joel Berger
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01:28 sri \o/
01:28 sri jberger: i suspect you'll be releasing 3.86 yourself :D
01:29 jberger AHHHHHHHH
01:29 jberger wait you didn't say I would have to DO anything :-P
01:31 jberger do you have a magic incantation you like to do on release? guess I would need to test with all the optional ENV VARS
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01:32 sri if you can, sure, but the stuff travis monitors should be enough usually
01:32 sri just make sure to tag the release, you now have commit access
01:32 jberger yep, I saw that, thanks
01:33 sri pause permissions should be assigned too now
01:33 jberger was just about to ask that too
01:34 * jberger thinks this deserves a clean clone
01:37 sri and tweeted
01:40 jberger and retweeted
01:41 crab moo
01:41 jberger I'm not very used to working with a shared repo, so just to be safe I think I'm going to keep a user fork
01:41 sri good morning india :)
01:42 sri jberger: you can just make feature branches
01:42 jberger I know :) I just suddenly feel the pressure!
01:45 jberger ok we'll try it your way
01:47 sri do whatever works best for you
01:48 jberger well, for the tag's sake, probably best to do it from the main repo
01:48 jberger probably doesn't matter
01:48 jberger annotated, no message?
01:49 sri doesn't matter
01:50 jberger oh there it is
01:50 jberger tagging version 3.86
01:52 sri when there are bigger features we usually tweet the release, for bugfix only ones you don't have to though
01:52 sri and i blog major releases, that's about it
01:56 jberger I see you don't keep the manifest in version control
01:56 jberger so I have to make manifest
01:56 sri jberger: oh, if you're on the mailing list i can make you a manager there too... somehow
01:56 jberger I'm more used to Module::Build
01:56 jberger are there any other build quirks I should be aware of?
01:57 sri make test; make manifest; make dist;
01:57 sri done
01:57 jberger I'm doing disttest right now with TEST_POD=1
01:58 jberger meantime, I did get a combination of App::Wallflower and Mojolicious::Plugin::Mount and github pages to work to make a static version of my talk
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01:59 sri do people really keep the manifest in the git repo?
02:00 sri that sounds rather annoying tbh
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02:00 good_news_everyone [mojo] jberger tagged v3.86 at 9a1a7a2: http://git.io/nWczjA
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02:01 sri \o/
02:01 jberger \o/
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02:05 sri oh interesting, meteor.js does the JSON extension stuff i was talking about recently for custom mongodb types http://docs.meteor.com/#ejson
02:06 sri this is actually exactly what i had in mind for binary :D {"$binary": "c3VyZS4="}
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02:08 jberger seems sane
02:09 * sri really needs to sleep now!
02:10 * jberger checks the time in Germany
02:10 * sri blames jberger ;p
02:11 * jberger runs around banging pots and pans
02:11 * jberger feels bad about making so much noise
02:11 * jberger brings sri some warm milk
02:11 sri *slurp*
02:11 sri Zzzz
02:12 jberger nighty night
02:12 jberger I have  a real life big grin on my face
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02:33 Akron jberger++
02:33 Akron Great to have you as a core dev. And a great way for PHD procrastination.
02:35 jberger thanks! and oh boy is it ever
02:36 * jberger pours an oatmeal stout to celebrate
02:36 crab phd? you're doing a phd?
02:36 jberger crab: https://github.com/jberger/Thesis
02:36 jberger its 120 pages right now
02:37 jberger my major contribution to the world: http://jap.aip.org/resource/1/japiau​/v108/i12/p124905_s1?isAuthorized=no
02:39 Akron You are writing directly in tex?
02:39 Akron (latex)
02:39 jberger latex
02:40 jberger including many of the figures
02:40 jberger https://github.com/jberger/Thesis/b​lob/master/inc/laser/schematic.tex
02:41 jberger I've taught a couple introduction to LaTeX courses at my university
02:41 jberger and a couple of guest lectures
02:42 Akron tikz is so damn hard ... ;) I do most of my figures in svg and I'm currently pretty happy with my org-mode > latex > pdf stack.
02:42 jberger its hard, but its powerful
02:42 jberger you know whats really cool, gnuplot outputs to tikz now
02:42 Akron So everything that's hard in org-mode I can do in LaTeX directly but have everything in one file.
02:43 jberger almost all my plots are in tikz now, they look great
02:43 jberger org-mode/
02:43 jberger ?
02:43 Akron Yes - tikz looks great.
02:43 Akron Emacs org-mode
02:43 jberger oh
02:44 jberger would it freak you out if I say that I do most of this in gedit?
02:44 Akron Your work is really impressive! Well done!
02:44 jberger thanks
02:44 Akron No.
02:44 jberger what field are you in?
02:45 jberger have I asked you this before? if so I'm sorry
02:45 Akron Computation linguistics.
02:45 Akron No you didn't. ;)
02:46 Akron Is there good support for latex in gedit?
02:47 jberger not really
02:47 Akron Plugins etc.? You know - if you are into Emacs there is no idea about other editors ...
02:47 jberger I actually prefer Eclipse+TeXlipse
02:48 jberger but I'm often too lazy to get it up and going
02:48 Akron :)
02:48 jberger but once you do its amazing
02:48 jberger context drop-downs for bibtex entries!
02:48 Akron Alt+x Bib+Tab in Emacs. Hehe.
02:49 jberger :-P
02:49 jberger I came into programming via LaTeX, and as such have learned everything in the wrong order
02:50 Akron But damn, I should try to use different editors I think. It's so hard once you are into these keystrokes ...
02:50 jberger actually, my first Perl script is still in use, there is even a menu item for it in LyX now
02:50 Akron You are saying ... there's a right order?
02:51 jberger https://github.com/jberger/MakeBeamerInfo
02:51 jberger probably not, but certainly the last thing I'm still learning is how to use an editor wisely
02:51 jberger maybe that's how it always goes
02:51 Akron Oh - LyX is neat. I did some layout tests for Latex in it a long time ago.
02:51 jberger I've actually never used it
02:52 jberger but someone came to me asking if they could make a tie-in for it
02:52 jberger so there it is
02:52 jberger I needed to parse the .nav file from beamer
02:52 jberger so someone suggested sed, when that wasn't quite enough, I found Perl
02:53 jberger now the script is that, and Perl is what I spend most of my time on :-)
02:53 jberger Akron, perhaps I can ask a real question?
02:54 Akron Doesn't sound like the wrong way for a scientist.
02:54 crab so i got confused reading scrollback, thought jberger was a computational linguist, and was very surprised when i saw the title of the aip paper.
02:54 Akron Sure.
02:54 jberger haha
02:54 jberger a friend is doing some $work, and he is looking for a way to glean intent from some text
02:54 jberger positive connotation vs negative
02:54 Akron (Although I'm german as sri ... and tired as sri. ;) )
02:54 jberger does such a thing exist?
02:54 jberger hmmm true, why don'
02:55 jberger why don't you guys sleep
02:55 Akron Sentiment analysis you mean.
02:55 jberger ?
02:55 jberger sure, even that is probably a good start for me
02:55 jberger are there some Perl modules?
02:55 jberger he found something in python I think, but I can't let that go unchallenged :-P
02:56 Akron I've some - but not public. And just for academic use. ;)
02:56 jberger well you should keep it that way
02:56 Akron But - well - the toolchain is pretty simple. There are quite good Tokenizer and Lemmatizer out there on cpan.
02:57 jberger this would be commercial and the only benefit to society at large would be better surveys and probably firing some people who actually have to read them :-P
02:57 jberger tchrist does some of that right?
02:57 jberger seems like I saw him give a talk at YAPC
02:58 Akron And even currently they often use sentiment weighting based on existing lists - e.g. https://fnielsen.posterous.com/afinn-a​-new-word-list-for-sentiment-analysis
02:58 jberger oooh, remember, posterous is closing
02:59 Akron ;)
02:59 jberger if you have some favorite articles I would copy them
02:59 Akron That's right. Or better say: I've got the data and a bibitem with "last accessed". :)
03:00 jberger nice
03:01 jberger its gotta be a fun time to be in linguistics now
03:01 Akron AFINN should be even usable for commercial things, however, I don't use it ...
03:01 jberger finding corpuses (corpii?) has never been easier
03:01 Akron Now I'm doing more social network stuff however ...
03:02 Akron That's true! But is true for sociology as well.
03:02 Akron Who is tchrist on cpan?
03:02 jberger not sure
03:03 Akron Oh - you mean Tom Christiansen?
03:03 jberger yeah
03:03 crab tomc
03:03 crab (on cpan)
03:03 jberger k
03:03 crab never heard of tchrist doing sentiment analysis
03:03 Akron Not so much linguistic stuff as far as I can see ...
03:04 * jberger looks at YAPC log
03:04 jberger btw Akron AFINN looks useful
03:05 Akron I use ANEW for comparison, and BawlR for german. AFINN seems to be more real world related.
03:05 Akron Creating a perl script using this is pretty easy.
03:06 Akron Oh ... late now. I have to go, guys!
03:07 jberger found it: http://act.yapcna.org/2012/talk/136
03:07 Akron jberger: Congratulation again for your core dev status!
03:07 jberger thanks!
03:07 jberger go to bed
03:08 Akron Ah, a pretty special topic. Thanks for sharing!
03:08 Akron Yes - I will. Bye!
03:08 jberger o/
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03:37 bpmedley Greetings, I just wanted to bring attention to PhantomJS which could be used for browser based tests with Mojolicious.  It's pretty cool stuff.
03:38 jnbek joined #mojo
03:43 bpmedley More specificlaly, it allows for headless Selenium testing.
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11:31 bd ::daemon behind an apache proxy as described in the wiki does not work for me. it only works like this: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/9d4def3d/ for me
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13:24 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/kKG6_w
13:24 good_news_everyone mojo/master d0383ed Sebastian Riedel: a few more routing tests
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13:31 marty jberger++ congratulations!  \o/
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13:39 sri \o\
13:39 sri /o/
13:40 nicomen |o|
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14:30 jberger \o/
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14:49 * sri wonders if we should make action arguments hackable
14:51 sri under sub { push $_[0]->match->args, $_[0]->param([qw(foo bar)]) }; get sub { my ($self, $foo, $bar) = @_ };
14:52 sri we've been keeping them unused for quite some time, and it doesn't look like anyone has a good idea for how to use them
14:52 sri might as well allow conditions and bridges to change them dynamically
14:53 sri tempire, marcus, crab, jberger: thoughts?
14:54 jberger sri: generally I'm always for flexibility
14:55 * sri has been playing with Play! Framework and liked how they handle parameter validation
14:55 jberger OH
14:55 jberger I get it
14:55 jberger (forgot how under for ::Lite worked for a sec)
14:55 crab i don't get it.
14:55 sri :)
14:56 sri ok... lets make it simpler
14:56 jberger the controller can automagically get certain stash values as arguments
14:56 jberger so you dont have to pull them from ->stash
14:56 crab i get the "under" part. but what is "get sub ..."?
14:56 sri you put stuff into $self->match->args([qw(test 123 lalala)]) and it ends up in @_ for the next actions
14:57 sri get '/foo' => sub { my ($self, $foo, $bar) = @_ };
14:57 crab oh. i see.
14:57 sri just the same same
14:57 sri get sub {} is just a get without path
14:57 crab well, being able to get params like that might be nice
14:57 sri equal to /
14:57 jberger sri: I like it, no breakage, easier usage
14:58 crab but "sub { push $_[0]->match->args, $_[0]->param([qw(foo bar)]) }" is pretty horrid
14:58 jberger it does seem like many times, the first thing you do is have to pull out stash values
14:58 crab and i don't think i want to see it while reading routes.
14:58 sri make it push $self->match->args, $self->param([qw(foo bar)]) then ;p
14:58 crab and the list is liable to keep expanding too
14:59 sri ok, maybe my example sucked ;p
14:59 crab it seems nicer to just do my $self = shift; my ($foo, $bar, $baz) = @... in the sub
14:59 sri $self->match->args([$self->param('foo')]);
15:00 sri anyway, the point is that it would be easily hackable ;p
15:00 sri you can make plugins to manipulate it any way you like
15:00 crab doesn't that have the param-in-list-context problem?
15:00 sri yes it does, but you didn't like my other example :(
15:01 crab i don't like this one either!
15:01 sri :,(
15:01 sri my @args = $self->param([qw(foo bar)]); $self->match->args(\@args);
15:01 sri !!!
15:02 jberger sri, crab, you can use it for other things too
15:02 sri indeed
15:02 sri like pushing route placeholder values into @_
15:02 jberger under sub { $_[0]->match->args([scalar localtime, getcwd]) }
15:02 jberger not sure why you would want to
15:03 jberger but you could
15:03 crab i don't see the advantage
15:03 crab "not sure why you would want to" is a bad sign
15:03 sri placeholder named are available in $self->match->endpoint->placeholders in the right order
15:03 sri s/d/s/
15:04 jberger I mean "I'm not sure why you would want those exact arguments"
15:04 sri push $self->match->args, $self->param([$_]) for $self->match->endpoint->pattern->placeholders;
15:04 jberger I can see lots of reasons why I would want controller actions to get arguments in @_
15:06 jberger sub { my $self = shift; $self->match->args([ $self->schema->single( $self->session('username') ) ] ) }
15:06 sri bridges are just one use case
15:06 jberger now all your controller actions get your DBIC user object instance
15:06 sri another are conditions
15:07 sri $r->get('/')->over(params => [foo => 'Str', bar => 'Int'])->to('test#index');
15:07 sri you could do param validation and automatically propagate them to @_
15:08 jberger sri: the problem I see is that your controller actions are going to expect certain arguments now
15:08 jberger and to get them, the router has to set that up elsewhere
15:08 sri your routes also expect stuff in the stash
15:09 sri umm actions
15:09 jberger yeah, I guess thats true
15:09 sri if it's undef in @_ or undef in the stash is just the same imo
15:09 jberger yeah, ok I'm back to liking it
15:10 sri crab: you don't have to use it of course, but having the ability to do so seems useful
15:10 sri the only reason i see against it would be a better use for @_ in actions
15:12 sri http://engineering.linkedin.co​m/play/play-framework-linkedin
15:12 sri a good example for param validation in Play! Framework btw
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15:14 sri i'm not even sure i really like param validation as part of the route... but being able to add it with a plugin seems sensible
15:15 jberger sri: perhaps there is some better sugar, but I keep thinking like it might be nice to have a controller-side method that sets up the args
15:15 jberger sub MyController::ARGS { my $c = shift; << setup stuff >> }
15:15 sri syntax sugar is not important here imo, it's just a primitive for plugins
15:16 sri jberger: ewww
15:16 jberger then in main app
15:16 jberger under &MyController::ARGS;
15:17 jberger \&
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15:18 jberger I just like the idea, especially if its going to be validation and not just convenience, that it should be in the controller's file
15:19 crab jberger: you can already do that
15:19 sri jberger: now you're making an argument against it :)
15:19 crab (with a bridge that dispatches to mycontroller#args)
15:19 jberger crab, of course, but then you get to pack the validated args into @_
15:19 crab (and i agree that the validation should be close to the rest of the controller code indeed)
15:20 crab the problem is that normal controller actions don't have access to the matching route, right?
15:20 sri they do
15:20 sri $self->match->endpoint
15:21 sri all actions have access to $self->match with all context information the dispatcher uses
15:22 sri (it's a Mojolicious::Routes::Match object)
15:24 jberger sri: I'm +1 on better utilization of @_ in controller actions
15:25 jberger not exactly sure what my thoughts are on how to do it
15:25 sri crab: it's just about making @_ hackable, no more, no less
15:26 sri you could do all the validation stuff with helpers too
15:27 jzawodn I'm looking to wire Redis into a small Mojo app.  MojoX::Redis or Mojo::Redis?
15:27 crab sri: so you're just proposing a ->args() that sets extra arguments in @_ before calling actions?
15:27 sri jzawodn: Mojo::Redis
15:27 jzawodn thanks
15:27 sri crab: exactly
15:28 sri that's all my change would do
15:28 sri perhaps i should have written the code first :)
15:29 jzawodn perhaps I should update this page then? https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Using-Redis (it recommends MojoX::Redis)
15:30 sri jzawodn: that would be nice
15:30 jzawodn nod.  added to my todo list :-)
15:30 sri jzawodn++
15:31 sri crab: http://pastie.org/6317013 # basically the whole patch (without tests)
15:32 crab sri: sounds good to me
15:32 sri \o/
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15:48 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/lBraDg
15:48 good_news_everyone mojo/master 7d79839 Sebastian Riedel: added args attribute to Mojolicious::Routes::Match
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15:51 * jzawodn does happy dance for working redis pub/sub + mojo w/EventSource
15:51 sri \o\
15:51 sri /o/
15:53 jberger sri++
15:53 jberger jzawodn++
15:54 * sri still would like to hear marcus and tempire's opinion on ->args
15:54 crab hmm. we need another core developer.
15:55 crab (to avoid the possibility of 2 vs. 2 deadlock :-)
15:55 * sri can vote too!
15:58 * jberger cleans up some code so that Galileo::Page controller can get the DBIC page instance in @_
15:58 sri not so fast, the next release is a few weeks away :)
16:02 jberger no the code needed cleaning up
16:02 jberger I haven't actually used it
16:03 jberger I had an controller for all editing functionality
16:03 jberger menus and pages
16:04 jberger now I put page editing in with page showing
16:04 jberger and menu editing on its own
16:04 jberger just to be ready
16:04 jberger been meaning to do it for a while
16:05 nicomen hm, one thing that annoys me a lot is that this happens:
16:05 nicomen stat("/home/nicolasm/projects/supervisum/sc​ript/../lib/Supervisum/Controller/Main.pm", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=304, ...}) = 0 <0.000087>
16:05 nicomen stat("/home/nicolasm/projects/superv​isum/templates/main/index.html.ep", 0x611138) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) <0.000039>
16:05 nicomen the request to the web app just times out
16:06 nicomen is this just me or?
16:10 Mikey is there any way to get Mojo::UserAgent to use sslv2
16:11 Mikey liek if i wanted to fork() something of my own, and only wanted to do it onceSSL connect attempt failed with unknown error error:14077417:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:sslv3 alert illegal parameter
16:11 Mikey er oops thats old ass content
16:11 Mikey how did that get in there
16:11 Mikey the error starts SSL ..
16:12 Mikey i suppose i could use an https proxy
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16:26 Mikey nvm fixed it <3
16:26 Mikey sorry for spamming
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17:16 sri just when i thought person of interest couldn't get any better... damn
17:18 Vandal how to make it work? <%= link_to url_for('/'.$_->uri) => begin; $_->name; end %>
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17:20 Vandal got it
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18:12 * sri wonders if he might be missing something about ->match->args that makes it a bad idea
18:13 sri like people getting confused because they can't set args in a hook
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18:26 Akron jberger: SentiWordNet is now available under CC - maybe even better than AFINN. http://sentiwordnet.isti.cnr.it/
18:26 Akron jberger: But it seems to be a good idea to make a simple Sentiment Analysis tool for AFINN available on CPAN. Got this on my todolist now.
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18:41 Mikey why isn't my app class' DESTROY method being called anymore when morbo restarts
18:45 Mikey actually it's only true /some/ of the time
18:45 Mikey i'm going to blame myself.
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19:04 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Lf5Lxg
19:04 good_news_everyone mojo/master 7baf50f Sebastian Riedel: removed args attribute again
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19:06 sri there are just too few good use cases
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19:29 jberger Akron++
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19:33 jberger sri: I kinda liked it, but as I started envisioning it I was going to need a web of bridges/unders/etc for authentication and setting up args
19:33 jberger almost none of which were the same between routes
19:33 sri jberger: i came to the same conclusion after playing with it
19:34 sri maybe we'll find something better in the future
19:35 jberger I like the idea of better utilizing @_, feels perlish to me
19:35 * jberger dreams of introspectable signatures
19:37 jberger what if the action had prototype with some simple parsable signature?
19:37 * jberger already kinda dislikes that idea
19:39 jberger sub my_action ( param(name), stash(key), session(key) ) { ... }
19:40 sri doing anything with @_ is just pointless atm, the stash is always better
19:40 jberger and if any real signatures arrive, we probably don't want to be using the prototype
19:40 jberger ok gotta get back to $work
19:40 * sri would never do prototype hackage
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19:41 * jberger wouldn't think sri would, is just thinking out loud
19:41 sri imagine it got popular and would prevent a core feature...
19:42 jberger like you said before, not enough benefit
19:44 sri oh, you can try rethinkdb in the browser now http://www.rethinkdb.com/tutorial/
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