Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2013-03-25

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05:25 marcus all the young dudes
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10:10 memowe \o/
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18:00 * marty wonders if there is any way to avoid having to declare (use Mango::BSON ':bson'; ) in each package.
18:01 marty or template for that matter.   I find myself using that line a lot
18:01 sri how would that work?
18:02 sri and which bson functions are you using in ever template?
18:03 marty I don't know.  That's why I'm asking.  :)     I'd just like to be able to us bson_oid() anywhere in my app without having to include use Mango::BSON ':bson'; in each file
18:04 sri why do you need bson_oid?
18:04 marty I pass a stringified oid in a url and then I need to lookup a record
18:04 sri i see
18:05 sri don't think there is a way (besides Mango::BSON::bson_oid())
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18:05 sri or you make a plugin that turns all the bson functions into helpers ;p
18:06 marty Ahhh ok.  both will work.  Thank you, sri.
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18:23 anewkirk depending on the types of queries you write, ... like me, you might find yourself using boolean::true/false often
18:24 anewkirk ... although most of my querying goes through MongoDB::QueryBuilder now
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20:25 sri jberger: parrot dying is a good thing for perl6
20:26 sri chromatic doesn't have solutions, he's just being destructive
20:38 buu Parrot is dead?!
20:38 buu Now what are they going to use for perl6?
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20:52 sri jvm
20:53 sri which is a much more sensible first target
20:54 sri nqp will be mostly vm agnostic, so more can be targeted in the future
20:55 sri https://github.com/jnthn/nqp-jvm-prep
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20:56 sri from what i hear *a lot* is actually already working
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20:59 buu Someday =[
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21:06 jberger sri: understood, yet that wasn't what I was commenting on. I was saying that it was astonishing to see masak claim that the notion that "Perl 6 is keeping Perl 5 down" is passe in the community
21:06 jberger further to claim that allison must not pay attention to the community if she believes that
21:07 sri ah
21:07 jberger just says that perl6 devs (or at least that one) don't
21:08 jberger you know my opinions on the matter
21:08 jberger fwiw I'm all for a jvm perl6
21:08 jberger I just wish it was called something else
21:08 jberger if people don't think that perl5/6 is confusing now, just wait until there is a perl6 that works!
21:10 suy requiring JVM would mean requiring Oracle? Or the free ones work?
21:10 preaction_ i think that will be less confusing, because then the answer to the layperson (not in the Perl community) is obvious: Perl 6 is Perl 5's successor
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21:11 jberger preaction_, Perl 5 will continue to exist
21:12 jberger (nearly) everyone is agreed on that
21:12 preaction_ i'm aware. i'm in the Perl community. those outside aren't aware of that
21:12 jberger you think thats not going to be confusing?
21:12 preaction_ not any more confusing than the answer to "should I wait for Perl 6?"
21:13 jberger but what if I want to say "for this task you will need Perl 5"?
21:13 preaction_ "well that must be an old, outdated tutorial/blog post/etc?"
21:13 jberger how in gods green earth is someone supposed to convince a non-technical manager to start a greenfield project using a language that has been succeeded?
21:14 jberger but Perl5 is NOT going away
21:14 jberger that means that you agree that Perl5 should be kept down forever
21:14 jberger (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
21:14 preaction_ i don't agree that it _should_, i just know that it will
21:14 jberger and thus MORE (not less) confusing
21:15 btyler jberger: I think perl already rather suffers when it comes to convincing non-technical managers that it's appropriate for brand new projects
21:15 jberger btyler, agreed
21:15 btyler not sure that 5/6 is going to have a heavy impact there
21:15 jberger but part of the reason is because 5/6 has killed any idea of which Perl is Perl
21:15 jberger for those who don't already know
21:16 jberger in a perfect world we would all port everything to Perl 6
21:16 jberger but its not going to happen, CPAN is written in Perl 5, and for me personally PDL is
21:17 jberger I find it very unlikely that there will be a PDL on a JVM Perl6 within any reasonable time after Perl6's release
21:18 preaction_ eh, i have no dog in this fight. i know what i know, i do what i do, and i'll evangelize what i can evangelize
21:18 preaction_ wear a white shirt, black tie, tiny onion on my lapel and go door to door handing out copies of Programming Perl
21:18 preaction_ Excuse me, do you have a minute to talk about the Gospel of Larry?
21:19 sri :D
21:19 jberger :-)
21:20 jberger preaction_, agreed, however this is one thing that can be changed and materially improve the problem
21:20 jberger and its really frustrating knowing that the people with the power to do it, choose not to
21:20 preaction_ i think, with all the discussion that has been happening, that it's pretty much certain it cannot be changed (politics)
21:20 preaction_ it got buried in committee
21:21 jberger (because one man says so, an important one, but an absent one)
21:22 jberger in a related story, they better never let me be pumpking :-P
21:23 preaction_ eh, there were quite a few dissenting voices, though i may not agree with their reasons
21:23 preaction_ "just write good Perl 5 code!" being particularly galling
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21:24 buu preaction_: Can you elaborate on that?
21:25 buu Since obviously I'm not in this loop
21:25 preaction_ which specifically? the dissenting voices?
21:27 jberger buu, it was a big deal a few weeks ago, and a few years ago, etc etc
21:27 jberger my blog has a few posts
21:27 preaction_ http://perlbuzz.com/2013/02/everything-you-n​eed-to-know-about-perl-version-numbers.html <- here's one specific "it shouldn't be changed" voice
21:27 jberger http://blogs.perl.org/users/joel_berger/2013/0​2/on-the-version-number-succeeding-perl-5.html
21:27 jberger http://blogs.perl.org/users/joel_berger​/2013/02/does-perl-5-have-a-future.html
21:28 buu What a mes.
21:28 preaction_ http://www.modernperlbooks.com/m​t/2013/02/project-facepalm.html <- here's another "it shouldn't be changed", and yes it is a huge mess
21:29 preaction_ but I liked this: http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2013/02/practi​cal-questions-about-marketing-announcements.html
21:29 jberger I think chromatic doesn't care what its called, in this case he is just being pragmatic, accepting the larry rule
21:37 buu preaction_: Thanks for the links..
22:01 jberger don't you love it when you finally are forced to fix that tiny but important bug in your favorite pet module?
22:01 jberger you would have done it with the right tuits, but now you have to
22:01 jberger :-)
22:01 jberger https://metacpan.org/module/JBERGER/Ti​e-Array-CSV-0.07/lib/Tie/Array/CSV.pm
22:01 jberger aaaah
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22:20 xenoterracide lighttpd fastcgi, it's complaining about the backend being overloaded now, I think it's because a Moose module is now loaded. Anyone know of any tuning I might investigate to make the app load right?
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22:36 suy Excuse my noobiness, but, of all the deployment options that one has with Mojolicious, which do you think is the one that resembles more the "PHP way" of "just put your code under this directory and forget about it". CGI?
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22:52 sri http://scorchedrb.com # some interesting concepts in this new ruby framework, such as anonymous controllers
22:54 buu suy: I believe the script/app will run as CGI pretty easily, or you can switch to fastcgi by updating the apache config
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22:58 suy buu: ok, thank you.
23:01 sri ohoh, there's a now a ietf wg working on a new json spec http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive​/web/json/current/maillist.html
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23:05 cfedde is there a way to profile a Mojolicious::Lite app?
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