Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2013-03-27

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08:37 coff I love rediscovering things in my apps. The 'forgotten password?' route for a particular site was https://<SITE>/alzheimers .
08:37 coff And not a single user have commented, even though it has been used multiple times.
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08:47 suy coff: you mean is not very politically correct?
08:47 suy (and nobody complained)
08:48 coff suy: Yeah. I get surprised when people do not whine when someone is not PC.
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09:53 Akron Any idea what "Use of each() on hash after insertion without resetting hash iterator results in undefined behavior" means in http://www.cpantesters.org/cpan/report​/736d203e-958d-11e2-b0af-bd76c51cef80 ?
09:53 Akron The line is https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/​master/lib/Mojo/Reactor/Poll.pm#L50
10:10 dabudabu < dabudabu> Hmm, I'm thinking of doing something like this: http://pastebin.com/47MQYE7j < dabudabu> I can't get it to render from a template in an external file though <-- Minor update: I played with the debugger and found that adding something like push(@{$c->app->renderer->paths}, "../templates"); after defining $c causes rendering from external files to work! <3
10:27 Slatibart Hi, I've looking for a module which makes generating of html tables or forms easier. And it should integrate nicely with Mojo and the template system. HTML::Table::FromDatabase but does too much outside of the templates system. Not sure if CGI::Formbuilder is state of the art now. Can you share your opinions ?
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10:48 Mithaldu sri: something you might want to replicate: https://github.com/aaugustin/django-c10k-demo
10:50 suy Mithaldu: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​mojo/2013-03-26#i_6634497  ;-)
10:51 Mithaldu ah, he knows
10:51 Mithaldu i was kinda hoping that mojo can handle that kind of thing so easily that there could be a fast followup :)
10:52 dpetrov_ Slatibart: I like HTML::FormHandler
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11:46 Slatibart dpetrov_: Looking into it. do you define helper templates which you insert into ep templates or how do you integrate it into Mojo ?
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12:12 nic Slatibart: for forms, do you not like the built-in support in ep?
12:13 Slatibart nic: It's nice but a little bit more support when for example generating a table from a database handle would be it nice. Or I am just missing the right examples to guide at the moment :)
12:14 nic yeah, for tables I think I agree
12:15 Slatibart and it continues with input validation. What is the right cpan module to use. (Or which best fits into Mojo)
12:16 nic Slatibart: https://gist.github.com/niczero/4451614
12:16 nic actually, can save you a click; it just mentions Input::Validator
12:17 Slatibart Nice list, Actually this is stuff I am looking for. Don't want to reinvet the wheel again, aka finding the right tools
12:18 nic I make no promises those are the "right tools(TM)", I just use it as a starting point
12:20 Slatibart Yeah, I know. There are never the right tools. Btw, do have a public project with this on github ?
12:20 nic sorry, not yet
12:20 nic I'm waiting for bootmetro 1.0 to be ready (it's a slow wait)
12:21 nic When that's out, I'll do a mojolicious integration
12:22 nic eg progress bars are a pain in the neck and crying out for a helper
12:23 Slatibart Parsley.js looks nice
12:24 nic yeah
12:24 nic right now I'm too busy trying to implement this http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/circuit_diagram.png
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12:25 Slatibart what, ehm ?
12:25 nic :)
12:59 amirite_ still no way to define globals like $stash in the template system?
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13:27 ACE hi there
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13:27 ACE hi there
13:27 ACE i make websocket chat application by MojoLite
13:27 ACE my program running by morbo  to  successful websocket
13:28 ACE but running hypnotoad  to dont successful websocket
13:28 ACE how do you know ?
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13:36 ACE because global variable not shared workers by hypnotoad
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14:05 ACE__ maybe... hypnotoad is prefork server
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14:28 vervain I just discovered that if MOJO_LOG_LEVEL=debug is set in the env then Mojolicious fails some tests.  I think this is newish.  Is this ok?
14:39 ACE__ my problem was solved.  thx!!!
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15:06 ACE__ i posted https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromg​roups=#!topic/mojolicious/EKRYRyRQ6Vw
15:06 ACE__ plz correct me if i wrong
15:11 ACE__ thx there!
15:17 marty dabudabu: I think the question you are asking is unclear.  Perhaps you could rephrase it or elaborate.
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15:39 dabudabu marty: I've figured it out
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16:01 nic vervain: It's been like that for at least a year
16:02 malikai is there a way to have a mojo websocket client talk to a socketio server?
16:03 malikai i'm just trying to figure out if i should even contemplate such a task
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16:08 vervain nic: My previous update was v3.79 from 2013-01-12 so I don't think it's been at least a year.
16:10 vervain nic:  Herm, I take that back... a quick test of v3.79 failed in the same way.  So I'm not sure how it got through the build last time.
16:25 anewkirk one thing that has bit me many time was having Mojolicious installed in the system Perl while working on an app with Mojolicious installed in a local-lib, executing the app server using the system perl executable, and if there are conflict it blows up in weird ways
16:25 anewkirk ... and I guess that makes sense ?
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16:40 sri marcus, jberger, crab, tempire: so, is this discussion over? https://github.com/kraih/mojo/pull/472
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17:53 marty I cannot remember.  Is smart matching (~~) deprecated again or is it still safe to use?
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17:59 vifo Hey folks!
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18:02 vifo I am trying to build a simple web app with Mojo, which has to process some lengthy, blocking and periodic operations in background (classic poller operation). Can this be implemented directly in the app itself, or do I have to separate the poller into a separate daemon?
18:06 sri marty: it was never safe to use
18:08 marty really?  wow, did not know that.  I'll go read up on it.  ty
18:08 sri vifo: best practice is to use a work queue like resque
18:09 sri marty: documentation is a bit unclear, but given/when and smartmatch are still considered experimental by p5p from what i hear
18:10 vifo sri: That's how I would do this on Unix. Unfortunately, I have to build this on Windows, so I thought of a Perl only solution, without lot of dependencies.
18:10 marty ok.   Thank you sri.
18:13 sri Mithaldu: yes, mojolicious can do it easily, but c10k is not really an interesting problem anymore these days, i liked the example because it showed how python uses generators in tulip
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18:15 sri biggest part of a blog post about how to handle 10k websocket connections with mojolicious would prolly be an explanation about how to build EV with kqueue/epoll... not much fun
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18:16 sri everything else is already part of the framework and just works
18:18 avenj marty: given/when/~~ will throw warnings in 5.18 .. perl rt#116913
18:19 * sri so hopes infix subroutines will make it into 5.20
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18:41 Mithaldu sri: i'd think that'd be a positive, no?
18:42 Mithaldu python: <massive explanation of what pieces need to be stuck together how>
18:42 Mithaldu perlite: <compile EV, set up mojolicious, done>
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19:42 sri hahahaha
19:42 * sri just played with a c10k demo and had perl segfault
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19:51 tempire urg.  may be time to start freelancing again.
19:52 tempire sri: I'm still -1 on the exception for j
19:52 tempire in Mojo::JSON
19:52 tempire not necessarily in ojo
19:54 sri Mithaldu: no way i recommend people read mlehmann docs to set up EV...
19:54 Mithaldu point
19:55 sri i just tried with IO::Poll, but that fails gloriously
19:56 sri past a few hundred descriptors it implodes
19:56 sri with hypnotoad it's no problem actually, you just increase number of workers
19:56 sri but the client side needs to handle 10k descriptors as well
19:58 sri don't think there is an "it just works" solution with perl atm :/
19:58 Mithaldu Alien::EV
19:58 sri you either deal with the shitty kqueue/epoll bindings or compile EV with the right options
19:59 sri i'd rather get rid of EV copletely and replace it with UV
19:59 Mithaldu never heard of that
19:59 btyler it's what nodejs runs on
19:59 Mithaldu i was just saying, a possible solution could be:
19:59 sri https://github.com/joyent/libuv
19:59 Mithaldu write a module that downloads and compiles and installs EV
19:59 sri libuv is amazing
20:00 Mithaldu that certainly sounds portable!
20:00 sri they started out with a wrapper around libev, and then replaced it with something better, and added IOCP for windows and so on
20:01 sri only problem here is that the perl binding is not quite there yet https://metacpan.org/module/UV
20:01 sri libuv actually solves many more problems, such as non-blocking resolver
20:06 sri oh, looks like libev can't actually be compiled with kqueue on os x atm
20:09 Mithaldu if libuv is based on libev porting EV.pm shouldn't be that hard, should it?
20:11 sri libev was only used internally, the api is very different
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20:11 Mithaldu ah, dang
20:11 sri libuv is basically the whole node.js api
20:13 sri it's getting really hard to make evented perl look good these days
20:13 btyler well, if you were going to wrap it for mojo purposes, couldn't you leave out a fair bit of the node api, since a lot of it has to do with creating servers/handling requests
20:13 btyler or filesystem interaction
20:13 sri so much of the good stuff is not even available as CPAN modules
20:14 sri btyler: i suppose you could theoretically do that, but who would spend that much time on something like that and not expose the whole api with all its benefits
20:14 btyler fair point
20:15 btyler and it'd be a hard sell vs node, I imagine.
20:17 btyler but it is happening (libuv wrappers in other languages): see http://luvit.io/
20:18 sri well, that binding has been written by a node.js core dev
20:18 sri but yea, i would be all over such a high quality binding for perl
20:20 sri python is actually not far behind, they are investing big in async i/o with python 3.3
20:20 * sri is getting jealous
20:21 sri in ruby it sucks about as much as in perl, but at least they have alternative implementations with real threads
20:23 sri (not that they are actually taking much advantage of it yet)
20:27 sri http://pastie.org/7142197 # in case anyone feels like compiling EV the right way and playing with 10k websockets
20:27 sri (just a quick hack)
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20:34 sri hmm, i'm getting really pessimistic recently... but be a side effect of following p5p :(
20:41 sri *must
20:43 marty keeping up with p5p can definitely be detrimental to a persons psyche.
20:44 marty is there any chance perl6 will be as kewl as it hopes to be?
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20:46 sri unlikely
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21:42 basiliscos Hello. I make an test for custom uploading, and do http://bpaste.net/show/87105/ . Is there any methods like $t->send_tx_()->status_is(200) ... etc?
21:50 basiliscos I have found! It is $t->request_ok($tx);
22:02 sri omg, the wachowskis are making a scifi series for netflix! :O
22:08 sri oh, and they are teaming up with the creator of babylon 5 :O
22:08 * sri hugs netflix
22:10 * marty liked speed racer
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22:35 cfedde maybe the long tail has not been cut off afterall.
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23:22 freman so... the unavoidable has happened, we have to make a table change... I'm a huge fan of the way I saw rails manage database... and I know it's completely off the mojo topic (especially as we're' using rose::db) but I was wondering if anyone here had any ideas?
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23:38 jberger sri: as one of the few people who likes all three matrix movies (you can keep the dance scene) that sounds really cool
23:39 sri v for vendetta!
23:39 * jberger wonders if the Prima event loop would be usable
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