Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2013-04-08

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00:28 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/B5gIuA
00:28 good_news_everyone mojo/master c522741 Sebastian Riedel: use real WebSocket example in tutorial
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00:29 sri a lot more useful
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00:30 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/__GAKA
00:30 good_news_everyone mojo/master fd7178f Sebastian Riedel: fixed encoding bug in tutorial
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00:42 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/n7wS2Q
00:42 good_news_everyone mojo/master 4551cdc Sebastian Riedel: more tutorial tweaks
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00:52 jberger sri++
00:53 jberger oh, but one thing I notice
00:54 jberger how many of the branches are still live?
00:54 jberger switching from a commit view to master I notice there are quite a few
00:55 sri yea, most are dead
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00:57 jberger_ yay, spring cleaning means its spring!
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00:59 sri :o
01:01 jberger_ hahah, thats all of them!
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01:17 mrphilov Another newb-ish question… I've got my Mojo app emitting JSON via "$self->render(json => $hashRef)" - trying to use UserAgent to grab it from another module. If I want my app to call itself via UserAgent I need to run two versions of it? (aka "./blah_mojolicious daemon -l http://*:3010") then makes calls to :3010 from within my :3000 application, otherwise it always freezes or comes back with uninitialised variables from the ua->get($getURL)
01:22 jberger_ mrphilov, if you need to query your own app from within itself, you probably are doing something, if not wrong exactly, at least inefficiently
01:23 jberger_ you might want to look into "partial rendering"
01:23 mrphilov I'm trying to implement SOA, where one module may live on one server (in this case, a DB module) and other modules on another (say something that needs to query something from the DB)
01:23 mrphilov So my app is really many independent bits. This is truly inefficient in the single-machine case.
01:23 jberger_ oh ok
01:25 jberger_ then yes, I would think you want it running on two different ports
01:25 jberger_ in fact, it shouldn't be able to come up if the port is already taken, correct?
01:26 mrphilov Well. I was assuming that if a request came in on :3000 that there'd still be (something mumble mumble) available to take another connection on :3000.
01:27 mrphilov Up to say N connections. But it looks like it only services one thing at a time.
01:28 mrphilov Long-term I'd split out the code, but for now, I have all the code in one place, so the same codebase does all things. There are separate controllers for the differing functionalities.
01:29 mrphilov So my web browser comes in and asks for say "/renderPage" and then my app does a call to itself on "/priv/getDataBaseData?query=xyz"
01:31 jberger_ can't say I'm qualified to respond to these things
01:33 jberger_ still it seems like using some kind of message server (0mq for example) to communicate with some backend (possibly elsewhere) might be more effective than ua for this purpose
01:33 mrphilov Ah, k. Well thx anyway. It's working if I start up two copies on two different ports and call across them that way, which is how I'll have it when it's on two machines, so it's really just running in a more-proper setup anyway.
01:33 jberger_ but again, I only am parroting what I have seen in talks, I've never tried anything like this personally
01:34 jberger_ true
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01:34 mrphilov Yeah, it's possible there's something more (perhaps MUCH MORE) efficient to accomplish this, for now, it'll do as a prototype.
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01:35 jberger_ so I'm assuming if I can sneak in a (legitimate) reference to an Einstein paper in my thesis, I should do that right? :-)
01:36 Akron mrphilov: There's the "app" attribute in Mojo::UA you might want to use.
01:37 sri the normal daemon is evented, your request blocks the process
01:40 mrphilov Got it. So before too long I'll start looking into the more-advanced daemon options. Thx for that.
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01:57 sri http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juRtEEsHI9E # nice introduction to promises in jquery
01:58 sri mrphilov: http://mojolicio.us/perldoc/Mojoli​cious/Guides/Cookbook#REALTIME_WEB
02:00 mrphilov Excellent. Will be needing to delve into JS soon enough, so that's helpful. Will read the realtime_web reference in the morning. Well. Later in the morning. It's 4am here and I think I'm about to pass out. :D
02:01 sri the jquery link is for those participating in the ongoing promises design discussion here
02:01 sri but glad you find it helpful :)
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03:21 * sri wonders if there's a better name for $delay->begin
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03:32 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/tP4Tdw
03:32 good_news_everyone mojo/master 10f2712 Sebastian Riedel: updated WebSocket example application
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05:08 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/PSaw2g
05:08 good_news_everyone mojo/master 749f0b5 Sebastian Riedel: added is_hidden method to Mojolicious::Routes
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05:16 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/KhGzGQ
05:16 good_news_everyone mojo/master 5f69d06 Sebastian Riedel: a few more router tests
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11:58 marty \o
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13:47 gtodd while exploring and learning how to use Mojo::DOM I decided to try parsing a web page as if it were presenting relatively well structured data
13:47 gtodd :)
13:50 gtodd since the spits out info about books and other "media artifacts" ...  So mostly author, title, ISBN, ... etc. I started out doing things like:
13:50 gtodd @author = split ( /\n/ , $dom->find('span.author a')->pluck('text')) ;
13:50 gtodd @title = split( /\n/ , $dom->find('span.title a')->pluck('text')) ; ...
13:50 gtodd then just building a hash/splice out of the arrays
13:51 gtodd my %books_out ;
13:51 gtodd @books_out{@author} = @title ;
13:51 gtodd amazingly it worked :)
13:51 gtodd only 30 seconds of coding !
13:52 sri the split seems unnecessary
13:52 sri pluck returns a Mojo::Collection
13:52 gtodd great
13:52 gtodd now wanting to make things a bit more robust since ...
13:55 gtodd well I have commented my code like this :
13:55 gtodd @books_out{@author} = @title ;  # could fail if item is authorless arrays won't line up in hash
13:55 gtodd :)
13:56 gtodd so looking at the page I see each item is actually inside another dom element ... so I could iterate over the elements inside that container and then if there's no author just inject "No Author" or something ....
14:00 gtodd but all the containers are named like so:  div id="bib671183020...  i.e. the div id = "bib+some random number"
14:02 gtodd so I *guess* I want to pull all those things in as a sort of ready made hash/slice of dom elements (using a regex as the dom id) and then parse inside them for author title etc
14:04 gtodd but Mojo::DOM made things so easy that even the slightest amount of extra dancing through hoops feels like I'm doing something wrong :)  ...
14:04 gtodd So I guess my question is sort of general like "do I still have to use my brain?" or ....
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14:07 gtodd I'm not a web designer and while it does seem odd to give a whole bunch of pages elements unique div id's (when they are all the same style) ... I guess it is so their js can do fancy web2.0-ish things on unique page elements etc.
14:12 sri find('div.[id~="bib"]')->grep(sub { $_->{id} =~ /^bib\d+$/ })
14:13 sri unless the div has a unique parent structure, there's a million ways to do it
14:21 gtodd ok thanks ........  yikes I can add stuff like   ->grep(sub    to whatever Mojo::DOM errm "method" I use to do the first grab
14:21 gtodd I have super powers
14:21 gtodd If only I could go back in time - with Mojolicious - to 1998 ...
14:22 jamesw heh
14:22 sri i'm afraid we do not support going back in time yet :(
14:22 sri patches welcome!
14:22 gtodd heh
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14:51 gtodd hmm ::Useragent and ::DOM are so featureful flexible etc. I am starting to wonder about an application that could crawl a site ... begging and borrowing any needed CSS JS ... and create a "Mojocized" mockup  version of the same site as a way of quickly/seamlessly converting existing websites to use Mojo
14:52 gtodd of course the admin backend of things like Wordpress and Joomla would be left as an exercise for the implementer
14:53 gtodd that way Mojo could gain users/sites with no time travel required
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17:19 sri hmmmm
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17:22 sri mojo get http://search.twitter.com/search.json?q=perl /results/1 perl
17:22 * sri wonders if that's worth adding
17:23 sri reencode the result of JSON Pointers with app->dumper instead of Mojo::JSON
17:25 sri maybe not
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17:28 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/oLCHgg
17:28 good_news_everyone mojo/master 0616d0a Sebastian Riedel: fixed small selector bug in get command
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18:37 rmah hello
18:37 rmah I've just started trying out mojo and have a question....
18:38 rmah it seems that when you call $self->render in a controller method and specify a template, that if the template is not found it falls back to the default template for that method
18:38 rmah out of curiosity, is there a way to prevent this behavior and just return an error?
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18:40 rmah ?
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18:46 buu rmah: Delete the default template?
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18:57 rmah say you route to ->("foo#bar")
18:57 rmah if you don't specify a template arg to render, it'll render foo/bar.html.ep
18:57 rmah if you do use a template arg (say "foo/baz"), then it'll render the template "foo/baz.html.ep".
18:58 rmah but if's not there, it'll render foo/bar.html.ep instead
18:58 rmah I find this behavior somewhat curious
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19:08 buu I have no idea how the rendering system actually works =[
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19:17 sri http://blog.pythonisito.com/2013/04/mong​odb-pubsub-with-capped-collections.html # some interesting hacks for pub/sub with mongodb
19:19 buu pythonisto?
19:21 marty That looks fun.   I might try to use that a little in my app.
19:22 sri the oplog part is pretty hacky though
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19:23 marty rmah:  that seems strange to me.  when I try it here I get.. "Template "test.html.ep" not found. Nothing has been rendered, expecting delayed response.
19:23 marty I'm probably missing something cuz my head is in a different space
19:24 * marty hugs morbo
19:24 marty I forgot how nice it is to have a restarting dev server until I had to go back and hack on our old system.  what a pain!!
19:26 sri especially now that it's smooth \o/
19:29 rmah marty: really?  how odd
19:29 rmah hmm
19:29 rmah that's what I'd expect...
19:29 rmah sri: can you confirm or deny?  when a template is not found by the renderer, does it try to fall back or should it just return an error?
19:30 sri rmah: what you said makes no sense to me, so there's nothing i could say
19:32 rmah heh
19:32 rmah sri: do you have a few minutes for me to try to explain again?
19:33 marty morbo = very smooth.  I cannot imagine life without it now.  \o/  sri++
19:33 rmah oh never mind, it was more just curiosity anyway... don't sweat it
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19:39 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/eE2mLg
19:39 good_news_everyone mojo/master c1fb1db Sebastian Riedel: tutorial tweaks
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19:41 travis-ci [travis-ci] kraih/mojo#442 (master - c1fb1db : Sebastian Riedel): The build was broken.
19:41 travis-ci [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/kraih/mojo/com​pare/0616d0ab01f3...c1fb1db0138b
19:41 travis-ci [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/kraih/mojo/builds/6163142
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19:43 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/YlP0MQ
19:43 good_news_everyone mojo/master c2eb946 Sebastian Riedel: merged Mode and Logging sections in tutorial
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19:45 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/jIPc4Q
19:45 good_news_everyone mojo/master 70a52a9 Sebastian Riedel: fixed POD formatting bug in tutorial
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19:45 travis-ci [travis-ci] kraih/mojo#443 (master - c2eb946 : Sebastian Riedel): The build is still failing.
19:45 travis-ci [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/kraih/mojo/com​pare/c1fb1db0138b...c2eb946ffabf
19:45 travis-ci [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/kraih/mojo/builds/6163261
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19:47 travis-ci [travis-ci] kraih/mojo#444 (master - 70a52a9 : Sebastian Riedel): The build was fixed.
19:47 travis-ci [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/kraih/mojo/com​pare/c2eb946ffabf...70a52a926dab
19:47 travis-ci [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/kraih/mojo/builds/6163316
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19:51 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/dopVxg
19:51 good_news_everyone mojo/master 5f7c758 Sebastian Riedel: link to cookbook from WebSocket section in tutorial
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19:57 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/PtzbZw
19:57 good_news_everyone mojo/master 46d10ee Sebastian Riedel: fixed small anchor bug in Mojolicious::Plugin::PODRenderer
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20:04 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ZTEDmA
20:04 good_news_everyone mojo/master ed4c2db Sebastian Riedel: merged a few more tutorial sections
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20:04 sri hope i'm not going too far with the tutorial
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20:11 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AhsvRA
20:11 good_news_everyone mojo/master 842d9ee Sebastian Riedel: mention that app->start should be the last expression in an application
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20:22 Britzel Tutorial can never go too far :)
20:22 Britzel s/Tutorial/Tutorials/
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20:24 suy Actually, if I could borrow something from other projects and magically transfer to Mojolicious, more documentation would be the first. E.g. compare to: http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/
20:25 buu suy: What areas do you feel are lacking in documentation?
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20:27 suy buu: a bit of everything. An example application would be nice. Like tempire's mojoexample, but with explanations.
20:28 buu suy: You mean like the one on the front page?
20:28 suy Some things probably are well documented, and is just me that doesn't get it because it's too terse, or I'm not used to Perl.
20:28 sri if you mean a full mvc app, that would basically mean that we have to "bless" a specific model layer
20:28 suy buu: no, like this: https://github.com/tempire/mojoexample
20:30 suy sri: ok. But still, some things like sessions, are not easy to grasp if you don't have some experience, I guess. I have a book that devoted one whole chapter to it (with PHP).
20:30 suy If I ever get some experience, I will try to write something in the wiki
20:30 sri well, books have a different style
20:30 * sri would love an o'reilly book about mojolicious
20:30 * suy too!
20:31 suy a book would be really, really nice, even if is small
20:32 Britzel suy: the one existing small book in German about Mojo is way too small. It falls short of any useful value.#
20:33 sri nobody wants to write books anymore it seems though :(
20:34 Britzel Perhaps the target is moving too fast?
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20:35 Britzel Writing a good useful book takes about one year. During that time Mojo hs moved on quite a long way, hasn't it?
20:35 sri it has been quite stable since 3.0 imo
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20:36 sri rails requires a new book every year
20:36 sri if anything... that's good for selling books!
20:37 sri hello fast money from new editions!
20:37 btyler that tactic seems to work well for academic textbook publishers/authors
20:37 btyler makes sense to bring it to a field where things actually do change quickly enough to justify new editions
20:38 btyler (+1 to a mojo book. that would be killer)
20:38 sri o'reilly first editions start with less than 100 pages these days, and they make a new one every year
20:39 sri if i had the time and was a native english speaker i'd do it
20:39 btyler this might be a silly question, but sri - how many people would you guess have sufficient mojo expertise to write such a thing?
20:40 sri it's easy enough to learn topics while writing about them
20:41 sri not like you have to cover the really advanced topics at all for a first edition
20:42 sri which reminds me...
20:42 btyler yeah, that's very true. I guess I haven't grown out of my notion of books as a sage sharing advanced wisdom
20:42 sri tempire: you still owe me a mojocast about Mango and Mojolicious :D
20:44 sri btyler: for a first book i'd expect "Learning Mojolicious", not "Mastering Mojolicious" ;)
20:44 btyler right right, for sure :)
20:46 sri in fact, you could even steal the basic structure from http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920019664.do or http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920021292.do
20:47 sri the sinatra book is pretty close to what i would expect
20:48 sri the tornado book is what i would hope for, since i really suck at explaining event loops :D
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21:47 good_news_everyone [mojo] kraih tagged v3.94 at 4a6c191: http://git.io/RDxb-A
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22:16 marcus Woot
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22:35 sri moo
22:57 * janus just uploaded a new mojo plugin, source: http://git.io/JKR37g
22:59 janus wanted to do that for some time now and finally got around
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23:07 janus its on-the-fly yuicompressor css compression by just calling styles foo-min.css
23:08 janus perl ftw :)
23:09 marty janus++
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